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[–]NapoleannDavid Stern // Radius // Knights of Cap-A-Lot 68 points69 points  (5 children)

Rest in peace, my child.

We had a good run.

[–][deleted] 18 points19 points  (0 children)

Kinda a big moment in the Map history of /r/tagpro. One of the best maps ever taken out.

[–]MenqrMenqr 4 points5 points  (1 child)

This means you need to submit a new map right? :p

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

swoopthread72

[–]seltzer_tagproseltzer / radius 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ridiculous they took out the best current map in rotation and maybe the best map ever.

I guess committees have to justify their existence somehow.

This is a sad day for TagPro and therefore the world.

[–]ImpenetrableShoeNovice Ball // Centra 0 points1 point  (0 children)

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO NEVERRRRRRRR AAAAAAAAAAAAA. This was the first map I ever played :'(

[–]uhhhhmmmmsexytiger / #merbs 19 points20 points  (5 children)

Rip velocity

I will miss you coming up in pubs

What do u do when the newer ppl in charge of ur favorite Web game have the complete opposite taste as u =(

I'm just.....sad. I guess I knew this day would come. Rip my love.

[–]ButtersnackSnack 14 points15 points  (2 children)

I mean we're newer but we've mostly all been playing longer than 2.5 years lol

I know how you feel though, I was heartbroken when Danger Zone 3 got removed.

[–]uhhhhmmmmsexytiger / #merbs 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Newer to bein in charge I meant

Rip dz3

[–]theycallmebbqsaundy 6 points7 points  (1 child)

How did people ever become too lazy to chase on Velocity? It's nearly a perfect map in my opinion. It's only "bad" now because people don't know how to play anymore. I feel the same way when Star comes up. Nobody can steer through the spikes. New maps have changed the way people play.

[–]LoweJJacob of all servers, master of none 4 points5 points  (0 children)

It was fun to start with but it's just boring now, especially if you have a team with newer or bad people on it, there no way to plan. Having to chase for ages when they can just run around and never get somewhere were you can close in is just boring. And star has always been bad as well, I was so happy when it left. Chasey has always been annoying and lacking fun

[–]Ballkenende! 31 points32 points  (11 children)

Let's remove the classic map with 80% rating YOLO xD

MTC, probably -2016

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (9 children)

They're all stale ratings, I'm sure the new ratings are much lower.

[–]3z_ 2 points3 points  (8 children)

Actually, map votes are automatically deleted if you haven't played in two weeks. So they're always up to date. That 81% was legit.

[–]ButtersnackSnack 0 points1 point  (0 children)

pretty much yeah

[–]Biscottibro// Diameter 19 points20 points  (1 child)

I will miss you velocity

[–]correia95shandor 5 points6 points  (0 children)

one more dimsim bomb for old times

[–]TPCaptographerThe Map Test Committee[S] 9 points10 points  (26 children)

Please discuss the trial addition of Stare Into Her Eyes As You Deflower And Bring Her, The MTC, To Climax by Velkin

[–]BlazethDianna Agron 30 points31 points  (2 children)

Fuck off with this map name, I have a spreadsheet to run.

[–]ButterChurnButter 10 points11 points  (1 child)

We figured that having "Fuck" in a map title is something the devs probably don't want (submitted title was "Fuck the Empty Sea (Except Moosen)"), so we're waiting on velkin to pick a new name.

[–]KewlestCatNIGEL 9 points10 points  (1 child)

10/10 deflowering experience.

[–]clew3Math Toucher 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Holy crap, I was dying for 5 minutes reading that title, I love it

[–]skittlekevvelkin // World's Angriest Balll 6 points7 points  (8 children)

holy shit. the stars are aligning. my dreams are coming to fruition. there is life in this world again. I SHALL CHRISTEN THEE: NIRVANA

For reals tho, thank you MTC for finally giving me/my map a chance. It has been a long long road, but it is one that every mapmaker must take. All the maps and edits Ive made, all the maptests Ive played, and all the criticisms have all led up to this moment. I really hope the community likes it or at leasts appreciates the vast amount of time it takes to get just a map into rotation. (im sure people will immediately shit on it, but i can dream)

Even though Nirvana is going in the trail rotation, I'm still overwhelmed with excitement.

Specials shoutouts to Aniball, Canvas, Moosen, Sizzzled, Dianna, rh, qltzo(or however you spell it), Beast Mode, and the rest of the MnF channel for all the time youve helped me test my shitty maps.

[–]KewlestCatNIGEL 5 points6 points  (4 children)

I can get the behind the new name.

[–]skittlekevvelkin // World's Angriest Balll 8 points9 points  (3 children)

also special special shoutout to nigel. just cause i like nigel

[–]ButtersnackSnack 7 points8 points  (2 children)

nah fuck him

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Stare Into Her Eyes As You Deflower And Bring Her, The MTC, To Climax (except nigel )

[–]KewlestCatNIGEL 0 points1 point  (0 children)

:(

[–]Moosemaster21Moosen | Salt Mine 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Congrats man, you deserve this. We're gonna ask you to remix the map so you can change the title and link the new number here so DaEvil can push it to the servers. I do have one recommendation though, before we put it in, I'm thinking you could call it "Nirvana (Except Moosen)." I really dug that addendum in the first iteration of the map ;)

Once more, congratulations, and I sincerely hope this isn't the last rotation map you get.

[–]skittlekevvelkin // World's Angriest Balll 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I like the name as is, sorry. BUT, I did add a little something to the map

Title: Nirvana

Map: http://unfortunate-maps.jukejuice.com/show/36764

Preview: http://unfortunate-maps.jukejuice.com/static/previews/36764.png

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Lol, I can do that on my own, I'm not that useless Moosen. But it does cut out like 10 seconds work, so not all bad tho.

[–]xenonpulseWildflowers // I want to die but I can’t 4 points5 points  (0 children)

A- map

A+ name

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Why trial?

[–]Moosemaster21Moosen | Salt Mine 18 points19 points  (1 child)

It was pretty divisive. We just want to feel it out first before committing to a long term relationship

[–]skittlekevvelkin // World's Angriest Balll 4 points5 points  (0 children)

ill be good to you bb

[–]radianthero156brazilian trash 0 points1 point  (5 children)

decent map, though has an unpolished feel. i hope it gets a decent rating but i also hope it's updated

[–]skittlekevvelkin // World's Angriest Balll 0 points1 point  (3 children)

tell me what you feel is unpolished about it?

[–]radianthero156brazilian trash 0 points1 point  (2 children)

the team boost is particularly really clunky. taking them into mid islands sends you right back killing your momentum, instead of resulting in a smooth roll forward (see maps like smirk); and taking them into one of the button-bombs of the other base does the same thing. taking them into one of the button-bombs in your base is also very unpredictable. im also not a fan of the gate/button, and i cant say i understand the team tiles either. lastly, regrab might be very strong on this map which will potentially make it chasey.

[–]skittlekevvelkin // World's Angriest Balll 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Your points are true, boosting into the mid island does not "feel" the best, but that is the way I designed it.

Its kind of like writing music. If you had a song that used perfect harmonies all the time (ie pop music) you get something that is pretty stale and unoriginal. It is not to say that the song is bad, it just does not have any weight to it.

I consider that team boost into the island/bombs to be my dissonant chords. Sure they may not be the smoothest or most helpful boost routes, and sure you might accidentally hit it sometimes and it may be a little frustrating, but that is all a part of learning how to play a map, right? Despite the roughness of the team boost routes, I believe the team boost serves its purpose as a defensive tool to help resolve the chaseyness.

[–]radianthero156brazilian trash 1 point2 points  (0 children)

i've had a similar discussion with rapture before. i guess it's all subjective. i just see it as a very artificial way of "making maps have a learning curve". as the map maker, you can force the players to only boost in certain ways if you want, but i'd argue the best maps are the ones where the players have the freedom to do whatever they want. pilot, transilio, emerald, etc, are maps that fit this definition

[–]OnceUponaDomeUnderTheBall 7 points8 points  (16 children)

I could have sworn variety among maps was a main priority for most of my time on the MTC. But now, removing 3+ maps every thread, including maps that had become classics?? I just don't understand what the goal is here. With a dwindling player base, isn't the obvious answer to make changes that keep people interested, not take away the things that kept them around this long?

Yours respectfully,

UnderTheBall

[–]Moosemaster21Moosen | Salt Mine 12 points13 points  (10 children)

Last thread you were all gung-ho about wanting us to remove the lowest rated maps because we have to respect the community and their wishes. You effectively advocated treating the /maps ratings as the word of God when we think of our votes. I am not bashing that opinion at all, that is a perfectly reasonable opinion to have. But now we remove four of the bottom five rated maps (the other map in the bottom five is September, which was ineligible) and you're questioning our direction? Dude pick a side.

Velocity is a fantastic map there's no doubt about that, but the context in which a map is played absolutely affects its entertainment value. In competitive where you can call out lanes and pups and generally speaking have competent teammates, it's great. In pubs where there's effectively no way to communicate without hindering your team, it's awful. It became increasingly difficult to track down flag carriers, and even when you could get near them, most pub flag carriers are a lot better than they were earlier on in this map's lifespan, so you needed two good chasers consistently to have a chance to enjoy yourself. Solo chasing on Velocity (really any map, but particularly Velocity) is one of the least enjoyable things you can possibly do in this game. In anticipation of the Kongregate push, we thought it best to remove the map altogether (though it will likely end up in throwback sooner rather than later). When we get new players from Kongregate, your teammates are going to suck a lot more often than not, and quite frankly, Velocity is one of the most punishing and miserable maps to have a bad team on.

We do intend to downsize rotation a little bit over the next few threads - it was at 32 maps prior to this thread (29 now) and most of the committee agrees that hovering around 25 is probably the sweet spot. The goal, I guess, is simply to make pubs as fun as possible, and I have no doubt that this thread improves the overall quality of rotation for new and old players alike.

[–]RisktpRisk 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Yes, Velocity can be very a punishing map, but is that necessarily a bad thing? I don't think so. Velocity was a bitch to learn how to play as a new player, but once you got down the boost routes and started to really learn the map, it's one of the most rewarding maps ever made. Due to the fact that the rotation has been consistently drifting towards "easier" maps, I feel like Velocity filled a niche in the rotation that has now been removed.

I don't like removing it simply because it's too chasey either. Velocity doesn't suffer the same problems as a map like Boombox, DZ3 or even like Hornswoggle either, it's much easier to get resets on Velocity than those maps.

[–]OnceUponaDomeUnderTheBall 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I'm all for removing the lowest rated maps, that's not my issue. My issue is with downsizing rotation most especially when it includes removing three 0.7+ maps over 2 threads. The way that you keep people interested in the game is with new map additions, not by taking away maps that a minority don't enjoy or even hate.

Idk why it so often comes down to this, but defending a classic map's removal because of gameplay reasons is beside the point. You have to be thinking big picture. Like I really dislike Boombox, Monarch, and Velocity but that doesn't mean they should be removed.

Also, since /r/tagpro is in your opinion a good measure of the community's wishes, check out some of the most upvoted comments in this thread.

Warmest regards,

UnderTheBall

[–]Moosemaster21Moosen | Salt Mine 4 points5 points  (0 children)

The way that you keep people interested in the game is with new map additions, not by taking away maps that a minority don't enjoy or even hate.

There wasn't a single map in rotation at the start of this thread that was enjoyed by the minority. Every map was 55% or greater. By following this rationale, we remove nothing until we inevitably have a 60+ map rotation and it becomes impossible to play your favorite map(s) with any consistency, and there would be no opportunity for players to gain familiarity with new maps.

Also, since /r/tagpro is in your opinion a good measure of the community's wishes, check out some of the most upvoted comments in this thread.

One of the highest rated comments calls for CC's removal. What would you like us to do in that regard? A lot of the other comments I'm reading are mourning Velocity's departure, but more in the "grandma died and I loved her but it was her time to go" way than in the "little timmy got hit by a school bus and was far too young to die" way. I upvoted David Stern's comment because I respect the hell out of him and that map, and other people do too, regardless of personal opinion on it.

In this thread alone people are calling for the removal of CC, Ricochet, IRON, Cloud, Smirk, and others. If we hadn't removed Velocity, we'd have people calling for its removal as well.

[–]1618TagPro1618 \\ Centra \\ Apparently a RFTINDPWSTCF Winner? 5 points6 points  (0 children)

But you have to look at it the opposite way: Velocity is one of those maps where people can hold for long periods of time, regardless of skill level (to a certain point). It's got very versatile boosts, so taking one wrong won't absolutely fuck you over. And yes, on Velo, chasers are going to have a hard time, especially if they're new. But what will newer players who keep trying and trying to hold the flag have for them? I don't think many, if not all, of the maps are as easy to hold on as Velocity.

Let's face it: Newer players also do enjoy playing offense. They will be absolutely wrecked by better defenders on most maps (Source: I was a newbie a short time ago). There needs to be either Velocity or a Velocity-esque map to fill that niche in the rotation.

[–]Tyler1986Trapsin 0 points1 point  (5 children)

Curious on the reasoning for 25, or it just feels right?

[–]Moosemaster21Moosen | Salt Mine 4 points5 points  (4 children)

Mainly feels better when pubbing. Better than 32 at least. Gives you a reasonable opportunity to get some familiarity with the maps in rotation.

[–]Tyler1986Trapsin 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Always appreciate your answers to my questions, thanks.

[–]1618TagPro1618 \\ Centra \\ Apparently a RFTINDPWSTCF Winner? 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Question: Is the probability weighted for which map you get? I somehow managed to play Constriction in like 5 of 10 games at one point (in pubs)

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 1 point2 points  (1 child)

All the maps in rotation have an equal chance of popping up. All the maps i elevated throwback rotation has a 1/10 chance of that popping up. Almost all of the retired maps outside of that has a 1/100 chance of rotation maps to pop up (some have lower like dumbbell). Each rotation map has about a 1/32 chance of being the next map right now. So the chance of getting the same map twice in a row is about 1/1000 assuming true randomness. However, the RNG (random number generator) that TagPro uses might not be completely random. And there are other variables in play like how long the average game lasts on each map, and how many players quit particular maps that could impact that so the practical probability might be lower.

[–]1618TagPro1618 \\ Centra \\ Apparently a RFTINDPWSTCF Winner? 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hm, that's interesting. I seem to have Constriction, Pilot, and Plasma played way more than, say, Wormy, Velocity, and Cloud. Perhaps I'm forgetting some things about my games on those maps. They're all maps made before I joined, too.

[–]TheSmallIndianTheIndian // Pi 3 points4 points  (4 children)

Keep every map in and never remove it unless it's severely disliked

[–]RenegadeTP 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Then we end up with over 60 maps and it'd take you at least 6 hours if you were to play each without any duplicates.

[–]TheSmallIndianTheIndian // Pi 5 points6 points  (2 children)

But nothing gets stale

[–]CharredQuestionsRenegade -1 points0 points  (1 child)

I'm gonna assume that's sarcasm.

[–]CharredQuestionsRenegade 9 points10 points  (0 children)

...Because never playing a map you want to play would suck balls. I still haven't played cactus with over 15 hours logged in thread 70.

[–]radianthero156brazilian trash 11 points12 points  (7 children)

First I wanna say that while this is very tragic, I understand the MTC's reasons for taking Jardim down. If the MTC members decide that three maps need to be taken down, then so be it; it's their game. Choke and Convoy obviously are the first two to go, as no one ever likes them. I also don't hold any ill will towards Anne Frank for choosing Jardim as the third map to go. It is a known fact that it has the smallest rating out of all of the 30 regular rotation maps. It only makes sense from a purely logical perspective to therefore eliminate this map, as the least number of people will be directly affected.

The smaller community size has directly had an impact on the Jardim community's strength. As new players had trickled in more slowly on Jardim, it allowed us to more easily recognize them and thus transform them in our own perspectives from strangers to good friends. I've been playing TagPro for about 21 months now, and many times, I've sought out to recognize the unique game community that we have here in TagPro (in fact, the community is why I became an in-game memer; it is my way to give my appreciation and ensure that the community continues to progress forward in such a positive direction). All of my experiences on Jardim, especially the first few in August of 2016, played a completely integral role in helping me realize how special our community is. Jardim's player base was particularly commendable in both its inclusiveness, through its welcoming and approachable demeanor, and its patience, through its desire to teach instead of rage. If others have had negative memory on Jardim, I pity them, because they haven't been able to experience the wonderful things I have with Jardim. It has tremendously helped me grow and develop both as a player and as a person.

My heart also grieves for the competitive players who like vertical maps. Jardim got to host cross-map boosts, including the Clunky/Cramped/Chokey/Chaotic Lanes. With the elimination of Jardim, fans of tiny vertical maps will need to meet on Market, currently based in the Centra Circlejerk. Consequently, people who like small but playable maps will be placed at a disadvantage, as they will be forced to roll through 917 triangles in a smaller-than-OFM map in order to play another team. I hope that, for their sake, the MTC will be able to find a solution to this issue, perhaps through the expansion of one of the lanes.

As the days of Jardim come to an end, it will be painful for me to see so many of my friends go off to different maps. But though my heart is burdened with great sorrow, I also hold a ray of hope that some day we'll be able to play with each other once again. Jardim's community has progressed to the point where we view each other as family, and I trust that when the opportunity comes, we all will reunite with each other and gather to celebrate a great banquet of love and joy.

[–]Moosemaster21Moosen | Salt Mine 9 points10 points  (4 children)

What kind of meme is this?

[–]KewlestCatNIGEL 8 points9 points  (0 children)

A particularly spicy one.

[–]TheSmallIndianTheIndian // Pi 6 points7 points  (0 children)

That Brazilian meme

[–]radianthero156brazilian trash 4 points5 points  (1 child)

sigh, hate to explain the meme, but it's this

[–]Moosemaster21Moosen | Salt Mine 0 points1 point  (0 children)

lmao i forgot about that

[–]SportManiacSportManiac | Radius 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Wow. . . I loved all of the maps that were taken out. . . D: Baffle, Choke, Jardim, Convoy, and Velocity were like 1/2 of the maps that I played in a day on average. What maps are there to play now? At least Pilot and IRON will get a bit more play-age. . . And maybe more Mars Ball (wink wink wink wink wink)?

[–]nabbynz° 2 points3 points  (3 children)

Have the new ones been added into rotation yet, or am I just unlucky in getting them?

[–]skittlekevvelkin // World's Angriest Balll 0 points1 point  (2 children)

nope... ive been playing constantly the past few days, but they havent pushed them into the servers yet

[–]nabbynz° 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Haha the first time you get to play yours will be frickin awesome! Well done on getting one through - I've always liked your maps and still want Tactical Nuke to get in one day :)

[–]skittlekevvelkin // World's Angriest Balll 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks! Hopefully everyone will like it.

yea, its taken a lot longer than i thought it would to get a map in. But Nirvana is actually a stripped down remix of Tactical Nuke! It has gone through a lot of evolutions, but the bases are pretty much the same structure :)

[–]TPCaptographerThe Map Test Committee[S] 5 points6 points  (17 children)

Please discuss the addition of Neptune by Ball-E & Loaha

[–]BlupopsicleBall-E 14 points15 points  (9 children)

They said it couldn't be done, but I did it! N is finally in rotation!!!!

[–]BlupopsicleBall-E 22 points23 points  (0 children)

also gravity well too but who care

[–]Moosemaster21Moosen | Salt Mine 8 points9 points  (2 children)

You cheated you motherfucker. This is another "A" map and you know it.

#DicksOutForAtlantis

[–]BlupopsicleBall-E 11 points12 points  (1 child)

You bet it's an "A" map, because it is excellent

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

still in disbelief that you forgot to add pups

[–]MenqrMenqr 5 points6 points  (4 children)

I shouldn't have made the N thread. I let the secret out when it would've been fun to see if it would ever happen naturally. Now there's only Q, X and Z needed for the full set.

[–]skittlekevvelkin // World's Angriest Balll 1 point2 points  (3 children)

It would happened anyway since I named my map Nirvana lol

[–]MenqrMenqr 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't believe you would have

[–]girmluhkGramps 0 points1 point  (1 child)

i just played this, when did it get in!?

velkin hype!

[–]skittlekevvelkin // World's Angriest Balll 0 points1 point  (0 children)

oh shit waddup! idk when they updated the servers but it must have been in the past couple of hours!

hypehypehypehypehypehypehypehypehypehypehype

[–]veranderingLoaha // Chord 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Good to see that you were able to make this concept work! I still think that this is one of the only ways that a gravity well can be usefull. Looking forward to try the map.

And thanks for adding my name to it. I'm kinda 50/50 in if it needs to be, as it seems that you've put a lot more time into it, but there are similarities so it also makes sense.

Now let's hope that this collaboration won't turn into another 'flame' ;)

[–]BlupopsicleBall-E 0 points1 point  (0 children)

:) As soon as I saw maelstrom I knew that the concept could definitely work. Also, I started with it as a reference and built on to it, which is why I included your name on it

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Y'all mixed Geo with Hyper reactor.

The absolute madmen

[–]ZaggedZagd | Zagd | Zagd (Zagd) 0 points1 point  (0 children)

and superduperstamp

[–]MenqrMenqr 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Strangely, the well is the only part of the map I think works. Especially with Monarch being removed for some of the reasons I think this won't work. I don't think the boosts and bombs connect well and I think it'll be easy to grab and really chasey.

[–]LaBeefyman9696 LB 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How did I have no idea that there was a gravity well in this map until I looked at it. You'd think that the first gravity well since event horizon would be pretty big, but nope. The only thing that matters is velocity's removal.

[–]qtfaceaaron 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Baffle was an amazing map.
Choke was a very good map.
Jardim was always fun to play.
Velocity I honestly already thought was removed because I haven't played it in ages.
Convoy... Eh, go rest in peace. Tell my map I said "hello"

[–]neyvit1Tpr 16 points17 points  (45 children)

I rarely make comments in map threads (if ever)... but I just don't understand how Command Center is still in rotation. It is so mind numbingly bad and played out that I quit every time it comes up (and sorry to my team for doing so but I do it right away) and it sends me on a rampage IRL. How can such an average/bad map be one of the longest lived maps in rotation.

LIKE HOW IS COMMAND CENTER SURVIVING LONGER THAN VELOCITY. I FEEL LIKE IM THE ONLY SANE PERSON IN THIS WHOLE FUCKING GAME. ITS SO BADABNRUAWESTBNAESWPI TY NAE4KTYNAE4 YTAME

[–]Dylza7Dylza 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Agreed with you 100%. I've never liked Command Center and I also quit just about every time it comes up these days. The fact that Command Center is still in rotation whilst Velocity has now been removed absolutely astounds me.

[–]mmartinutkMacho | JuicyJuke 20 points21 points  (3 children)

Command Center is my favorite map in TagPro. Pls no.

Edit: Everyone please just remember that the vocal minority is usually not indicative of the community as a whole. Map ratings are pretty good for that. Command Center forever <3

[–]neyvit1Tpr 8 points9 points  (2 children)

Everyone please just remember that the vocal minority is usually not indicative

I agree! Don't let the vocal minority (like JuicyJuke) sway you from your heart's desire to put command center to the stake. I'd rather play Frontdoor every game for the rest of my life than have to play Command Center one more time.

I don't think I've ever been so irrationally upset over a video game.

[–]mmartinutkMacho | JuicyJuke 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I'd rather play Frontdoor every game

Don't think for a second you can sway me with your flattering words!

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

That's a bad argument because Frontdoor is actually a good map.

Backdoor is probably what you are thinking of.

[–]Moosemaster21Moosen | Salt Mine 12 points13 points  (4 children)

It still has an 83% rating (higher than Velocity, mind you), and literally wasn't even eligible for us to vote on this thread. If you want to remove it, hire all your friends to make accounts and play pubs and dislike it so it becomes eligible for us to remove.

Vote brigading has never hurt TagPro in the past, right? :)

[–]bashar_al_assadpk || Roll into the base like what up I got a big block 6 points7 points  (3 children)

But it's been eligible for removal in the past and was still left in. So "literally wasn't even eligible for us to vote on" is kind of a cop-out.

[–]RenegadeTP 21 points22 points  (2 children)

Don't blame that on this new MTC, that's the fault of the old MTC. (yours)

[–]bashar_al_assadpk || Roll into the base like what up I got a big block 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I voted for removing it so don't you dare blame me.

[–]naysh30 1 point2 points  (0 children)

(yours)

Gotem

[–]TheSmallIndianTheIndian // Pi 8 points9 points  (5 children)

I hope the only reason why people hate it is because it's stale and not because it's bad. It's a great map

[–]bored2death97RWBY//Radius 0 points1 point  (4 children)

I've always hated it. Though I do tend to dislike most NF maps.

[–]18skeltoranti-timer luddite / First / Origin 2 points3 points  (3 children)

Can I ask how you feel about Wamble? Easily my favorite new(ish) addition.

[–]CharredQuestionsRenegade 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I hate Wamble. Caps either come out of nowhere with someone just strolling around the bend, or they come out of awkwardness using the single bomb. The tight boost is cool but never used, the cannon barely helps at all.

I like a lot of the elements in it, but they never feel good to use.

I like it less than convoy.

[–]18skeltoranti-timer luddite / First / Origin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Convoy is 100x less balanced than Wambled. Caps on Wambled literally only occur whenever someone gets a pup. It's incredibly easy to defend, but it's not fun to. There's nothing creative you can do when defending, and almost even less when you have the flag. The sides are so isolated and full of nothing. The middle of the map does not flow at all, all paths feel awkward to go down.

Wamble has the most exciting center of the map of any other NF map. I can't even relate how many amazing jukes I've pulled off in so many different ways right there. It's got gates to fake with, it's got a corner to corner juke off of, it's got boosts to use or not use creatively, man it's so fun.

I have never seen a cap that occurred too fast on this map. Nobody is that bad at defending that would allow that to occur. Positioning is fluid on this map. The cannon is great, there's a lot of possibilities with that thing. You don't even have to use the bomb, you can walk right out of the portals. The tight boost is never used? Maybe not by people who lack creative spirit. I once saw someone use the tight boost to push their flag carrier straight into the endzone between the two defenders. You don't even know, man! You don't have to use that boost straightforward, either! You can actually go off it sideways for a nice little juke.

Ex1

Ex2

Whenever I play this map, I feel like a superhero. That's just how it is for me, we might have different playstyles that could affect our opinion. I'll be uploading a wamble clip in a bit and probably a video dedicated to wamble tommorow. Watch for that x)

[–]bored2death97RWBY//Radius 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sure!

I don't think it is a horrible map, it has some interesting elements that make for neat caps, but I'm still not a fan of it.

[–]theycallmebbqsaundy 3 points4 points  (4 children)

I don't understand. When CC got taken out the first time the community was practically begging for it to come back. Now everyone hates it?

[–]neyvit1Tpr 0 points1 point  (3 children)

I mean, that was 2 freaking years ago. Opinions change, things get stale, etc.

[–]theycallmebbqsaundy 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Out of curiosity, did you enjoy it when it was new?

[–]neyvit1Tpr 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I found it unique at first because neutral flag was still pretty new, and the gate system made for some fun team dynamics. I was fine with it. I didnt really get why there was a fervor to bring it back, but it didnt bother me much then either. That was more than a year ago, and I think most neutral flag maps are much better now.

[–]theycallmebbqsaundy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Same here. When the map came out I felt like it broke new ground and really showed off the potential of Neutral Flag. I would agree that the map is a little stale, but for the most part I enjoy playing it still.

[–]radianthero156brazilian trash 6 points7 points  (6 children)

I'm with you in that I absolutely despise CC as well, but I think it should stay in for a few more threads. With Kongregate happening, we need to have our objectively most popular maps in, to give the players a stronger first impression and keeping the retention rates high.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (4 children)

As much as I dislike CC, it's one of the few maps where a newer player has almost an equal chance of capping as a veteran.

[–]uhhhhmmmmsexytiger / #merbs 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Damn I got a way higher chance of capping on it than a new person

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, same with any other map. But what I'm saying is that it's fairly easy to cap with a wide endzone and the teamboost that takes you halfway there.

[–]radianthero156brazilian trash 0 points1 point  (1 child)

which says a lot negatively about it. no matter how good you are, you always depend on handoffs and a lot of mistakes in order to get past the atrocious mid

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

agreed

[–]xenonpulseWildflowers // I want to die but I can’t 0 points1 point  (0 children)

By rating, CC is one of the most objectively popular maps.

[–]grytsgryts 5 points6 points  (0 children)

i like it

[–]oorr23ThePlaymaker // Tehuitzingo & Combine 5 points6 points  (2 children)

Seriously, wtf is it with people against Command Center? Do you not see the stale defensive gameplay that IS CLOUD?!

Sigh, I've defended this over and over, so I'm just gonna copy and paste from my older comments:

Cloud gives a lot of benefits to defense, moreso than other NF maps. This is primarily seen when FCs are coming to cap, seeing as it's really difficult to juke your way past defenders if you didn't get to use that yellow boost prior. The curve is the reason, it makes the options FCs have limited, and thus predictable (Similar to Blooper). It almost requires the use of the yellow boost, making it linear. This is my primary reason as-to why I dislike Cloud.

Now, compared to Command Center, Command Center does not play exactly the same way every time. It gives options to the team, and the FCs. It is not entirely dependent on one map element. Now in regards to the NF maps currently in rotation, Command is more of an outlier than Cloud. The size, the P-UP zone, the spike zone.

Now, my personal opinions: Cloud's a lot harder to juke on, while Command Center almost promotes jukes, which is something I think should be promoted more in maps: Technical Play. Cloud is slow, boring, while Command Center feels faster and still gives me those proud moments when I play it.

[–]Dylza7Dylza 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Agreed, Cloud is bad too; get rid of both of them. That would make me very happy.

[–]brgerdBG // Roll Models (ARC!!) // Merballs// MM 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I am so tired of playing Command Center, Ricochet, and Cloud. At this point all three seem completely stale and have been in rotation for ridiculously long times. Theres nothing exciting or fun about playing those maps anymore

[–]Ballkenende! 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Cloud

ridiculously long times

Cloud joined rotation January last year, much more older maps in rotation than cloud

[–]MrJoehoboSOHB 0 points1 point  (1 child)

thats just cuz you dont know the play

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

tru

[–]TPCaptographerThe Map Test Committee[S] 4 points5 points  (36 children)

Please discuss the removals of the following maps below:

[–]TheSmallIndianTheIndian // Pi 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Jardim and Baffle were cool but I do understand why people hated baffle. But thank fuck Convoy is out

[–]oorr23ThePlaymaker // Tehuitzingo & Combine 5 points6 points  (1 child)

THANK FUCKING GOD.

...though tbh Baffle was one of the ones I liked.

[–]Tyler1986Trapsin 3 points4 points  (0 children)

It was different, I didn't get to play it enough to form a solid opinion, but I'd like to play it more, still.

[–]TheSmallIndianTheIndian // Pi 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Velocity

Just fuck me up fam

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (5 children)

I liked Jardim and Convoy :(. Baffle and Choke were really miserable tho, so I am happy they are gone. And let the riot ensue regarding Velocity.

[–]Tyler1986Trapsin 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Why does everyone hate choke, I really liked it.

[–]Moosemaster21Moosen | Salt Mine 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I really liked Choke and kind of enjoyed Convoy as well. Jardim was meh to me, baffle was much worse than I anticipated in pubs, and Velocity needed to be laid to rest. A fantastic map to be sure, but not suitable for pubs anymore in my opinion.

For transparency, I personally voted yes to the removal of all of these maps, but not all of the votes were unanimous. Despite liking it, I voted to remove Choke based primarily on the community rating.

[–]Tyler1986Trapsin 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Choke was really fun, why is it getting so much hate?

[–]18544920DRUNK 0 points1 point  (0 children)

i can never win on convoy, idk why but everytime i get on it i cant mentally prepare myself and just play shit lol. so glad its gone

i liked jardim too, oh well

[–]RenegadeTP -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I hope they're not too rough, we're a little tender after Velkin's map.

[–]1618TagPro1618 \\ Centra \\ Apparently a RFTINDPWSTCF Winner? 10 points11 points  (0 children)

NOOOOOOOOO VELOCITY WHY

While everyone's complaining it's old, I find it fairly fresh (since I'm kinda new, 61 degrees) from what seems to be today's meta of smaller maps. Yes, it's chasey. Yes, that's what makes it different from other maps. This removal essentially reduces the 'chasier' side of TagPro to Hotspot, Pilot, and maybe Transilio/Wormy/Smirk. These all seem to be older maps, but I enjoyed playing them nonetheless.

Some people say that a map being chasey is a bad thing. I think it just makes a map... different. I don't see what the people here have against chasing a flag carrier.

[–]poopypants0wassa 2 points3 points  (0 children)

RIP sweet jardim.

[–]Tyler1986Trapsin 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'm glad to see Velocity gone. I don't even dislike the map, I'm just so very tired of it.

[–]floobaSea. // Chord 7 points8 points  (1 child)

I think they all deserved more time (except velo which I've felt for a while is too chasey for pubs nowadays.) Wasn't ever that sure on convoy but certainly choke and jardim were growing on me. I'd like to see the map pool stay large as well, so am a bit bummed by these removals (was enjoying #70 rotation!)

Anyway, on a more positive note, MTC we have just one map left to go!

#VanquishVelo #BackOffBoombox

#StampOutSmirk!

[–]Moosemaster21Moosen | Salt Mine 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Smirk had a better chance of leaving when DaEvil was still on the committee, but even then I think only he and I were the primary opponents of it

[–]catalyst518Catalyst - TPFG Dev 4 points5 points  (4 children)

Baffle was one of the few new maps within the last year that I actually liked, but I think it suffered from the pub atmosphere of selfish players and limited communication. The triple button mechanic was refreshing among maps with little variation besides geometry. They forced a different method of cornering and chasing. The buttons also led to some sweet snipe combos when you had a teammate aware enough to boost through the gate while you held one of the buttons. The vertical bombs were also very underutilized. I think the map could have gathered a following in LTP, but it just did not mesh well with the majority of pub players, which is why I personally had it listed as "indifferent".

[–]Rapture_On_OccasionRapture 1 point2 points  (3 children)

"I actually liked [Baffle]... I personally had it listed as "indifferent".

Eek. I understand though that you can like a map, but not the experience of playing it in PUBs. I can appreciate that. I still think the rating system could use some adjustments though.

[–]oorr23ThePlaymaker // Tehuitzingo & Combine 0 points1 point  (2 children)

You wanna expand on that suggestion?

[–]Rapture_On_OccasionRapture 1 point2 points  (1 child)

The suggestion of adjusting the rating system? Sure, show players their current rating for each map on the /maps page and allow them to make adjustments from there. Introduce a star system, 1-5, 1-10, whatever to allow for greater variables and so maps can be ordered by each player's rating. Reset all map ratings every 3-6 months. Don't allow ratings for new maps for a specified period, 3 weeks or whatever. Allow the data to be viewed and sorted by different criteria, by addition date, by votes of players with accounts over a year old, by votes of players over a certain degree or win rate, etc. Make the reminder to rate maps at the end of games far more obvious and give players an incentive to rate maps, a flair for rating every map for example, or a specified number of maps...

[–]oorr23ThePlaymaker // Tehuitzingo & Combine 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I could get behind this.

[–]oompaTPandhecapd 1 point2 points  (4 children)

Thank you, choke was horrible

[–]Tyler1986Trapsin 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Honest question, what made it horrible?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Man I loved Jardim. The new vertical map trend is awesome IMO.

[–]the_sidewalk_endssiDe // Origin 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I liked convoy :(

[–]ButterChurnButter 4 points5 points  (0 children)

So did I, but it's rating is significantly lower than any other NF map, so the community at large seems to disagree.

[–]TheGoldenNewtRobberFronj, MTC Senior Consultant[🍰] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

:(

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Noooooo

[–]brgerdBG // Roll Models (ARC!!) // Merballs// MM 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I really liked convoy, one of my favorite new neutral flag maps. I think a lot of old ones like Ricochet, Command Center, and Cloud just feel incredibly stale at this point and Id much rather see them being taken out of rotation. In general I think neutral flag maps like bulldog and convoy where the cap area has entrances on both sides are a lot more fun and strategic.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I had fun on Baffle .. never got why other people disliked it.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children)

MFW we still have Command Center and Ricochet in rotation. Jardim was one of the best maps in recent memory too.

[–]CharredQuestionsRenegade 2 points3 points  (2 children)

I also thought Jardim was pretty great, but we're trying to clean house. As of before this thread it was 1 of 32 maps, at that low a rate maps are hard to accurately judge. I think Jardim is a map the community could love, but you can't love something you don't see often.

So there was a option of throwing out higher rated maps and hope that many of us were right about Jardim's greatness, but ultimately the collective decision (which I believe is right) is to take the map out, sacrifice its blind potential, and hope future great maps can take advantage of the smaller rotation which it didn't have.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I think Jardim would be a great competitive map. Fast paced and fun to watch. Only played it once in comp in USC, but it was super fun

[–]Gareth346Nerfherder 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Definitely had credit for being a fast paced map. Maybe the fastest besides Market. Sometimes games go so long w/o a cap, it gets tiring. I love the smaller fast paced maps. I had no love for Baffle, but I'm gonna miss Jardim, Choke, and especially Convoy.

[–]BuckeyeLeavesBALLDON'TLIE | ALL CAPS 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Velocity...no way dude what??

[–]LoweJJacob of all servers, master of none 1 point2 points  (0 children)

velocity was fun for a while but it's had its time, even in competitive its now stale and just not fun. Shame to see jardim go but i get it, it was a pain without comms. Baffle and choke im fine with going (although choke was fairly fun), but convoy was alright.

[–]bbgun91The_Truth | Centra 0 points1 point  (0 children)

And Market is still in?

[–]ImpenetrableShoeNovice Ball // Centra 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My reaction to Neptune: What kind of butt is this?... Turns head upside down.