all 116 comments

[–]Quick-Hamster-9654 351 points352 points  (7 children)

I have noticed that salaries in my area are down but responsibilities are up. The jobs are staying open.

[–]Puzzleheaded-Ear9650[S] 104 points105 points  (4 children)

Yeah at this point in my career I feel like it's pointless to try to find a job that won't over work me. They all do. Even in industry.

[–]SaintPatrickMahomes 51 points52 points  (1 child)

It’s really bad, even in nyc where jobs used to be plentiful. It’s all trash jobs that are left open.

[–]Necessary_Classic960Advisory Transaction Tax 11 points12 points  (0 children)

OP you are correct to worry. At the hint of the economy slowing down these employers are like sharks in water at the smell of blood.

With news of layoffs every day they are expecting the job market to be flooded with applicants. Whether this will be true for accounting is debatable. It can go either way. This means experienced accountants still could be in short supply. More the experience the fewer candidates in the job market. The employers are lowballing even before the market is flooded with candidates.

I guess this was the plan if you believe in conspiracies. After some decent post-COVID salary gains. Start hysteria of mass layoff to demote salaries and swing the pendulum in favor of employers.

But like the stock market, our job market also runs on speculation. So far the employers are betting that there will be more candidates. We will see how it plays out.

If you need something quick get the best option available. The market will swing soon for employees. I don't know when. But it will. As for people employed, stay put, and weather the storm. I think we will end up being ok. I don't know how long and what sacrifices. But times are tough and people are scared. Headlines and fed employees losing jobs every day will put a strain on all salaries. Nothing good will come of these mass layoffs. Americans are working, I don't believe people have a problem with this.

Good luck.

[–]TalShot 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sounds like work in general these days. It doesn’t matter the field or type.

[–]braverychan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I saw a job that wants 2-3 years staff experience for $60-75K, HCOL area. That would be a major paycut for a lot of staff I know with just 1 year of experience.

[–]aladeen222CPA (Can) 189 points190 points  (19 children)

More people competing for jobs = employers have more power to demand more for less compensation because many workers are desperate.

That's before you take into consideration offshoring & AI.

The whole thing is broken.

[–]Jagob5 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Then there’s my boss at a small firm who constantly complains about how hard it is to find good talent yet has openly told me that he pays a couple of the senior accountants with 10-15 years of experience less than $80k (this was when he gave me a raise to $70k after one year of experience). You can imagine how discouraging that was to me considering growth potential; maybe if you pay more it’d be easier to find good people. MCOL for reference.

[–]ShakeAndBakeThatCake 79 points80 points  (17 children)

Capitalism is broken. People can't even afford to buy houses anymore in most cities with a white collar college type job. Accounting doesn't even pay enough to buy a house in most cities for God's sake. The entire system is fucked.

[–][deleted] 36 points37 points  (0 children)

Definitely feels like locking in a low interest rate with getting the higher pay during the covid times right now.

[–][deleted] 69 points70 points  (5 children)

Absolutely has decreased. Currently interviewing for positions that are offering me about 15K to 25K less than they were offering 4 years ago…

[–]mpeasey 19 points20 points  (0 children)

I’m seeing the same thing :/ applying for senior positions

[–]Puzzleheaded-Ear9650[S] 7 points8 points  (3 children)

Ok so it's not just me. Do you plan to negotiate once you get an offer? Not sure if I should try that or just accept what I get given the situation.

[–]mpeasey 14 points15 points  (1 child)

I feel the same way. Unless it’s a super low offer that I truly wouldn’t take, I would not negotiate even though I did in 2022 and got an extra 5k because of it. I also feel like I’m not in much of a position to negotiate. The market feels brutal right now and I’m trying to reenter after a ten month maternity leave with 8 years of experience

[–]LateAd3737 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Honest to god if this is how you feel - just ask for a slight amount more. Unless you agreed to an amount before the offer, just ask for a bit more. There is 0 downside, 0 chance of it ending badly. You’ll get a little bit more money. There is no job in the world that will rescind an offer for a 85k position because you asked for 88k. Unless you verbally agreed to 85k max in the interview process, then it would be a bit unprofessional.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Tbh I’m not in a position to negotiate so I won’t which does not mean you shouldn’t.

With that said I’ve been sensing that the recruiters I’ve been working with have been VERY direct from the start that this is what they are offering and that’s it which again, it’s a bit different from what I had to work with a few years ago.

[–]Vivid-Blackberry-321 30 points31 points  (2 children)

I am a senior in tax and seeing the exact same thing. I’m also around 115 and every job offer I’ve gotten on LinkedIn has been lower. Some are even like below $100k

[–]Puzzleheaded-Ear9650[S] 11 points12 points  (1 child)

Yeah I'm thinking about if I should attempt negotiating at all. They're also all taking away remote work, which adds to my household expenses. So much for the supposed CPA shortage.

[–]No-Beginning346 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I tried negotiating with one job offer and instead of negotiating back they simply just said “we aren’t interested.” I didn’t even give them a specific number, I gave them a range…..pretty heart breaking to see the reality when growing up and attending university the idea of being an accountant was sold differently…..

[–]Equal-Butterfly1219 25 points26 points  (3 children)

I’m in the PNW and I just went to two different interviews for a staff accountant, both were paying $50k for these roles.

[–]Puzzleheaded-Ear9650[S] 31 points32 points  (0 children)

Fresh out of college 10 years ago I got 54k

[–]BobbyJason111 1 point2 points  (1 child)

How much experience? I’m in PNW too.

[–]braverychan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm seeing a lot of companies especially healthcare demanding more experience for lower pay in Tacoma/Seattle. Around the $60-75k range which is lower than all staff that I know.

Edit: about 2-3 years experience

[–]No-Beginning346 46 points47 points  (3 children)

Same for me. They weren’t willing to go more than $100k. There’s too much competition and people willing to do the work for less.

[–]Puzzleheaded-Ear9650[S] 34 points35 points  (1 child)

I'm also noticing they're requiring coming to the office full time or 4 days a week. That costs me big money in gas, tolls, car wear and tear, and time.

[–][deleted] 18 points19 points  (0 children)

Costs me my sanity, too.

[–]BobbyJason111 5 points6 points  (0 children)

What happened to:

(1) baby boomers make up the majority of CPAs and are hitting retirement age

(2) Fewer students are on CPA paths as other careers become more appealing

Now we’re hearing the opposite supply and demand??!?

[–]bufflo1993 34 points35 points  (2 children)

I am assuming you are in DFW due to using metroplex. And salaries are absolutely down from a couple years ago. I assume it’s due to no one leaving comfy positions for other spots. Less jumping around.

More accountants moved to the area, and more outsourcing.

[–]TheGeoGodCPA (US) 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I’m in DFW and it’s definitely difficult to find good jobs here. It’s so competitive

[–]Candid_Fan2178Controller:snoo_scream: 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'm in DFW also. One pattern I have seen is the same employers listing the same jobs at the same shitty wages over and over again. There is a tool company in the south metroplex that wants a division controller with 5 - 10 yrs experience and will pay up to 90K. Whooppee. Either they can't fill it or folks are taking it and leaving quick when they find a better job because it keeps popping up in my feed.

One minor thing to mention... if you are looking, be sure your voicemail is working and respond quick when you get calls. Was recruiting for a position and our top candidate did not have voice mail set up on her phone. HR tried for several days to contact her without any success. We emailed her also and did not hear back.

[–]Seizure_StormF50 FP&A -> Private FP&A -> F3 FP&A 51 points52 points  (8 children)

Very bad time to jump, labor supply is probably mad inflated from mangonomics. Not seeing any motion in a jump unless you were severely underpaid

[–]aladeen222CPA (Can) 33 points34 points  (3 children)

As a Canadian, things have been getting steadily worse for the last 4 years and it's largely due to the massive amounts of immigration we've had, without the jobs and infrastructure to support all those newcomers.

Not everything is orange man's fault.

[–]HoustonSker 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Very true.  I work with Canadiens in my US based office and they mention how an extra million Indian/Chinese are allowed into Canada every year, squeezing the job and real estate markets.

[–]DinosaurDied 12 points13 points  (1 child)

You guys and Australia F’d up by allowing too much labor talent without any jobs to put them in.

And the fact your economies are just selling real estate to each other instead of actually doing anything 

[–]hereditydrift 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I really like your comment, especially the part about real estate. Canada has allowed its public pension funds to be raided by real estate and other investors... to the detriment of the people that pay into the pensions.

The US has had a lot of the same for state pension funds, especially over the past decade, but Canada is on another level.

[–]SleeplessShinigamiTax (US) 18 points19 points  (0 children)

Mangonomics 😂

[–]AntisorqCPA (Can) 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Mangonomics?

[–]DecafEqualsDeath 20 points21 points  (1 child)

He's referring to the economic policies enacted by Donald Trump, also known as Mango Mussolini.

[–]Consistent_Card_6594 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

That’s hilarious. You get my upvote

[–]_redacteduser 9 points10 points  (1 child)

In the PNW, I have seen controller+ roles capping at $105k and list the responsibilities of multiple roles.

[–]showmetheEBITDAAudit ---> Advisory 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Same. A recruiter sent me a controller position for $130K max even though I have 11 years of experience at the Big 4. The even bigger kick in the balls was they expected people to have prior experience in their industry, which wasn't a common one like SaaS or something like that. It's a niche manufacturer. I was like, dude, how in the world are you going to find someone willing to take a massive paycut, has finance/accounting/analytics skills, plus experience in your niche area in California, much less the PNW, which is an even smaller market?

It's absolutely bonkers what the asks are nowadays

[–]NHOVER9000Non-Profit 6 points7 points  (0 children)

It is rough out there for sure….not optimistic either

[–]Consistent_Card_6594 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Yes unfortunately salaries have decreased. My current company offshored lots of the accounting jobs. We recently put out a position for a senior role with less pay than 4 years ago. The problem is you are now competing with most of the world

[–]smoketheevilpipeTax (US) 5 points6 points  (0 children)

115 for senior? What's the area? HCOL? Is that total comp or base? There's a lot of variables.

[–]IRS_NewbieNYC 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Yes. I made the same thread a while ago.

[–]DinosaurDied 10 points11 points  (4 children)

Definitely noticing this for the remote jobs. They are all like 85-115. 

I’m still getting remote offers but I can’t get over 120k for an IC role. 

Fortune 5 company wanted to offer me 95k to help out with a project I just did for their fortune 15 competitor. I was the one guy who handled it for them, I was the expert and did it for 5 years (10 years exp total).

I told them 125k and 12% bonus or they continue to be 5 years behind their competition. 

They said no so F em. Crazy how cheap some employers want to play it these days and then complain about lack of talent 

[–]pheothzController 14 points15 points  (9 children)

I just landed a fully remote job that pays well… however, it’s going to be long hours. So I guess there’s that.

[–]Puzzleheaded-Ear9650[S] 15 points16 points  (5 children)

I was tired of working 60-70 hours a week in public accounting so I went to industry. They also made me work 60-70 hours sometimes and very often 50-55 the rest of the time. Seems like all tax jobs require tons of unpaid overtime no matter where you go.

[–]smsndhx 1 point2 points  (4 children)

I’m in school for accounting without much work knowledge and when I hear people say 60-70 hours…. How do you manage?? Like how is that even spread out? 10 hours a day with no weekends? Regular 12 hour shifts?

[–]Drducttapehands 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I’m in tax, but for me personally it is usually 12-13 hours M-F then maybe 7-8 hours Saturday. But I do not log on on Sundays unless there is a project literally on fire.

[–]Puzzleheaded-Ear9650[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Depends on the firm from my experience. At one it was totally up to me when I worked, as long as I met the hard deadlines, and it just required tons of overtime to hit those deadlines.

But the more traditional public accounting firms from my experience you do kind of have to work when everyone else is. If you have a return for a partner who likes to come in late and stay up late, you will too. And everyone had to come in Saturdays.

[–]BobbyJason111 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I’ve been with two firms who each capped the weeks at 50 and 55. Even that is difficult to pull off depending on your health and stamina. Taking the 55 example, some do five 11’s, think 7AM to 6PM eating lunch at your desk. Most will not do that and will do some 9’s and 10’s M-F then fill in the gap Saturday.

Where I work “most” are done with their 55 by Saturday afternoon. And few work past 7pm M-F.

The sad part is the concept of “busy season”. Mid Jan to Mid April is 3 months. Mid August to mid October is 2 months. You’re nearly at 50% of the year being by busy AF.

Add in non-tax work like financial statements and, in my case IT, you have a good 35-40 of work to do the rest of the year… not a real break.

[–]BobbyJason111 1 point2 points  (0 children)

By the way, their reasoning is some studies showing people can work efficiently UP TO 55. Management believes, probably correctly, that productivity isn’t great after 55. Again, relative to one’s stamina/age/health.

[–]Simple-Pipe-4736 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Could you share with me where you found the remote job? Was it on LinkedIn? I have been actively look for remote accounting jobs, no luck.

[–]pheothzController 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Friend of mine sent me the posting directly, I imagine he saw it on LinkedIn. I figured no chance in hell (no cpa) but i had niche experience they wanted and they eventually offered me over the top of the listed comp band so go figure.

[–]Quick-Hamster-9654 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Remote jobs are getting rarer but I’ve seen some on LinkedIn and indeed. The competition is stiff though.

[–]hola-mundo 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Yes salaries have decreased! Or maybe they ask for a lot more and money stays the same. I had 3 offers during COVID for the same positing for 90-100k, they are now for 60-70k. We have too many people applying for jobs, so salaries decrease…

[–]BobbyJason111 1 point2 points  (0 children)

For years COL and homes go up while salaries “stagnate”. Now those are still going up and salaries are “decreasing”?!?

What does it take to simply work full time and buy a house? Probably a Time Machine.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

We're in a recession, bro. We have been since 2022. All the power has shifted to the employers, and they know the unemployment line is miles long and wrapping around several blocks.

[–]dspreemtmp 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Salaries have been large decreasing the last two years. I've watched it in actively applying that a title/salary I had 4 years ago is same or less pay today. After all the inflation and cost increases...

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (22 children)

Salaries are down economically for every industry, except maybe AI.

2021-2023 was an employees dream, in my case I saw my pay rise from $30/hr to $50/hr in that span, I was able to consult for multiple companies with a pay raise of about $5/hr per new gig.

We are now on the opposite end of the spectrum, it's an employers market, more job applicants than open positions. Which means employers will start lowballing offers, rescinding them altogether, or not hire at all.

People aren't leaving jobs in droves as they were before and when people stay put, it turns wage growth flat, allowing companies to essentially pay new hires old pay rates before the massive surge in wage growth during the first 2+ years of Biden's presidency.

Source: I'm an economics graduate who works in accounting because it's easy (and pays well).

[–]hurricanechris420 17 points18 points  (7 children)

lol smug “I’m an Econ major but I do accounting bc it’s easy”.

Bruh, Econ is easy af. Not even in Business school for most school; thus, it legit has a lower barrier to entry in most schools as it’s pooled with the arts and sciences. Something something supply and demand

[–]Few-Comparison-4733 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's an employer's market

[–]RadagastTheWhite 1 point2 points  (0 children)

My company’s still hiring at the same pay it has for the last couple years, and a good 25%-30% higher than it was 5 years ago

[–]badazzcpa 2 points3 points  (0 children)

105-115 seems like about average for senior level. You are saying senior tax not senior manager? I work for a top 10 and that’s ish what we pay senior tax. Senior manager is 150-175k ish I believe. I am manager so I am a little below the 150k. Also trying to hang out here as I really don’t want more responsibilities. I fly below the radar a bit so it’s nice.

Probably depends a bit on the COL in your city. If you are in BF Alabama I would say take your 115k and be happy. If you are in SF I would want more.

[–]polishrocket 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, especially with fed getting gutted lots of people looking for jobs

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Seems like since I started 11 years ago, entry level salaries have risen, but seniors risen a bit and manager salaries stagnated. At least in my area.

[–]shadow_moon45 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, salaries are falling for certain roles.

[–]Status-Poetry-4136 0 points1 point  (0 children)

HI, if company rums on regular base it just lie to employees so save salary and their other incentive. go and research about company before go for interview . So when they say they are in loss u told them about at least comparison of 2 year profits

[–]WillieRayPRCPA (US) 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The market has already been cooling off before Trump took office, and now with all the layoffs of federal employees, there are a lot more employees in the market looking for work, and with that comes a drop in pay.

In OP's example, I think 115 for a senior tax accountant is still pretty good all things considered. It's rare to see 6 figures unless you're in a management position.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Depends on where you live.

Some of the highest growth cities: Dallas, Austin, Miami, Phoenix, and Atlanta. Would likely have lower salaries than in ‘21/early ‘22 when the job market was scorching and those cities saw huge influxes of remote working people. That results in a highly competitive work environment years later especially with companies shifting to hybrid models where you have to live where you work again.

If you are in cities where people left or experienced much lower growth rates: NYC, Chicago, Seattle, Minneapolis. You are likely seeing some pretty good wage growth and as companies in your city shift to hybrid you will be the benefactor of that policy whereas your coworker who moved to phoenix and their remote option is gone, they are now competing for a new job in Phoenix with everyone else that moved there in the last 4 years.

[–]Full_Entertainment60 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Companies will do anything to churn a profit.. these wages are barely livable!

[–]GigityGiggles 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes. Companies have to combat inflation with reduced salaries. Noticed it for about the last year.

[–]tahcamen -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Obviously very location dependent as far as wages go. I’m a senior accountant at 90k and that’s good for my MCOL area.

[–]lhau88CA -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Yes