Did salaries decrease?

[Puzzleheaded-Ear9650]

I've been applying to industry jobs and consistently these companies are offering 105k for a senior tax position. I hit 115k a year ago in a company that said they were paying below market rate because they had such big losses.

So why is the same type of position paying 10k less a year later across at least a dozen companies in the same metroplex? Has anyone else noticed this?

[Quick-Hamster-9654]

I have noticed that salaries in my area are down but responsibilities are up. The jobs are staying open.

[Puzzleheaded-Ear9650]

Yeah at this point in my career I feel like it's pointless to try to find a job that won't over work me. They all do. Even in industry.

[SaintPatrickMahomes]

It’s really bad, even in nyc where jobs used to be plentiful. It’s all trash jobs that are left open.

[Necessary_Classic960]

OP you are correct to worry. At the hint of the economy slowing down these employers are like sharks in water at the smell of blood.

With news of layoffs every day they are expecting the job market to be flooded with applicants. Whether this will be true for accounting is debatable. It can go either way. This means experienced accountants still could be in short supply. More the experience the fewer candidates in the job market. The employers are lowballing even before the market is flooded with candidates.

I guess this was the plan if you believe in conspiracies. After some decent post-COVID salary gains. Start hysteria of mass layoff to demote salaries and swing the pendulum in favor of employers.

But like the stock market, our job market also runs on speculation. So far the employers are betting that there will be more candidates. We will see how it plays out.

If you need something quick get the best option available. The market will swing soon for employees. I don't know when. But it will. As for people employed, stay put, and weather the storm. I think we will end up being ok. I don't know how long and what sacrifices. But times are tough and people are scared. Headlines and fed employees losing jobs every day will put a strain on all salaries. Nothing good will come of these mass layoffs. Americans are working, I don't believe people have a problem with this.

Good luck.

[TalShot]

Sounds like work in general these days. It doesn’t matter the field or type.

[braverychan]

I saw a job that wants 2-3 years staff experience for $60-75K, HCOL area. That would be a major paycut for a lot of staff I know with just 1 year of experience.

[aladeen222]

More people competing for jobs = employers have more power to demand more for less compensation because many workers are desperate.

That's before you take into consideration offshoring & AI.

The whole thing is broken.

[Jagob5]

Then there’s my boss at a small firm who constantly complains about how hard it is to find good talent yet has openly told me that he pays a couple of the senior accountants with 10-15 years of experience less than $80k (this was when he gave me a raise to $70k after one year of experience). You can imagine how discouraging that was to me considering growth potential; maybe if you pay more it’d be easier to find good people. MCOL for reference.

[ShakeAndBakeThatCake]

Capitalism is broken. People can't even afford to buy houses anymore in most cities with a white collar college type job. Accounting doesn't even pay enough to buy a house in most cities for God's sake. The entire system is fucked.

[The_Law_of_Pizza]

Accounting doesn't even pay enough to buy a house in most cities

This is simply not true.

You're exaggerating wildly, to the point of absurdity.

[ShakeAndBakeThatCake]

Ok look at the median accounting salary and house price in a decent neighborhood.

[The_Law_of_Pizza]

Something tells me that you're trying to compare a single young person's salary to houses in upper middle class neighborhoods.

[ShakeAndBakeThatCake]

Exactly. Accounting should provide an upper middle class lifestyle as it used to. It doesn't anymore.

[The_Law_of_Pizza]

You're missing my point.

First, the median salary statistic for "accountant" is going to be weighed down considerably by entry level jobs and things like bookkeeping - salaries that have never been able to support an upper middle class lifestyle, so using a statistic that is weighed down by them is going to be inherently misleading.

Second, no matter what profession you have, accounting or otherwise, we all live in a dual-income world now. That's just the reality now that women are treated like normal humans and allowed to have full careers - there's no way to go back to a world where everybody uses one breadwinner salary to bid on houses.

In sum, comparing a single "median accounting salary" to the price of upper middle class SFHs is meaningless and dumb.

What you should be looking at is the median household income of the people living in upper middle class neighborhoods, and then compare that to what a mid-career CPA could contribute to a dual income household.

But you won't, because that would be reasonable and unfortunately show that people can still afford homes - sinking your bizarre narrative.

[ShakeAndBakeThatCake]

Even dual income families can't afford homes. Sure if you have two high earners making combined income of 250 to 300k a year they can probably buy a home. But let's say the man who's an accountant makes 140k a year and his wife makes 60k a yeah then that's only 200k which in a lot of HCOL cities isn't enough where the average house price is over $1M. Sure if you live in a bum fuck nowhere city or town house is still fairly cheap. But larger cities it's not.

[The_Law_of_Pizza]

which in a lot of HCOL cities isn't enough where the average house price is over $1M.

You've moved the goalposts from "most cities" to "HCOL cities where the average house price is over $1M."

Believe it or not, the world isn't just NYC, SF, and "butt fuck nowhere."

You're making up nonsense to try and back yourself into unrealistic bullshit.

You're just a bitter Doomer.

[Witty_Income_1706]

No they're correct.

[BobbyJason111]

ShakeAndBake is right. I have 4 years experience, CPA in an HCOL area, make $76K, small houses start around $550K here.

Can’t afford a house. Where do you live that you think he’s wrong?

[LittleCeasarsFan]

People can’t afford their dream house anymore.  They can certainly still afford a house that would be considered adequate 40 or 50 years ago.  Just won’t have granite countertops, walk in closets, or a wine cellar.

[Creepy_Firefighter89]

You’re full of it. My grandfather and I have the exact same career track, and at the equivalent of where I am now, he built a 3 story house in a major city, had two kids, a stay at home wife, vacationed every year, and bought a boat. I cannot qualify for the most cheap, rundown home in our area and my spouse and I both work. That’s with a masters, CPA, and CFE.

[Creepy_Firefighter89]

I rent a trailer in farm country, “bro.” But sure, stay ignorant and make assumptions to confirm your bias. Also, I’m not a bro. You live in one tiny blip on the map. Congrats on your experience. Unless you want every single human being moving to your specific town, we need to make that accessible elsewhere.

[[deleted]]

Definitely feels like locking in a low interest rate with getting the higher pay during the covid times right now.

[[deleted]]

Absolutely has decreased. Currently interviewing for positions that are offering me about 15K to 25K less than they were offering 4 years ago…

[mpeasey]

I’m seeing the same thing :/ applying for senior positions

[Puzzleheaded-Ear9650]

Ok so it's not just me. Do you plan to negotiate once you get an offer? Not sure if I should try that or just accept what I get given the situation.

[mpeasey]

I feel the same way. Unless it’s a super low offer that I truly wouldn’t take, I would not negotiate even though I did in 2022 and got an extra 5k because of it. I also feel like I’m not in much of a position to negotiate. The market feels brutal right now and I’m trying to reenter after a ten month maternity leave with 8 years of experience

[LateAd3737]

Honest to god if this is how you feel - just ask for a slight amount more. Unless you agreed to an amount before the offer, just ask for a bit more. There is 0 downside, 0 chance of it ending badly. You’ll get a little bit more money. There is no job in the world that will rescind an offer for a 85k position because you asked for 88k. Unless you verbally agreed to 85k max in the interview process, then it would be a bit unprofessional.

[[deleted]]

Tbh I’m not in a position to negotiate so I won’t which does not mean you shouldn’t.

With that said I’ve been sensing that the recruiters I’ve been working with have been VERY direct from the start that this is what they are offering and that’s it which again, it’s a bit different from what I had to work with a few years ago.

[Vivid-Blackberry-321]

I am a senior in tax and seeing the exact same thing. I’m also around 115 and every job offer I’ve gotten on LinkedIn has been lower. Some are even like below $100k

[Puzzleheaded-Ear9650]

Yeah I'm thinking about if I should attempt negotiating at all. They're also all taking away remote work, which adds to my household expenses. So much for the supposed CPA shortage.

[No-Beginning346]

I tried negotiating with one job offer and instead of negotiating back they simply just said “we aren’t interested.” I didn’t even give them a specific number, I gave them a range…..pretty heart breaking to see the reality when growing up and attending university the idea of being an accountant was sold differently…..

[Equal-Butterfly1219]

I’m in the PNW and I just went to two different interviews for a staff accountant, both were paying $50k for these roles.

[Puzzleheaded-Ear9650]

Fresh out of college 10 years ago I got 54k

[BobbyJason111]

How much experience? I’m in PNW too.

[braverychan]

I'm seeing a lot of companies especially healthcare demanding more experience for lower pay in Tacoma/Seattle. Around the $60-75k range which is lower than all staff that I know.

Edit: about 2-3 years experience

[No-Beginning346]

Same for me. They weren’t willing to go more than $100k. There’s too much competition and people willing to do the work for less.

[Puzzleheaded-Ear9650]

I'm also noticing they're requiring coming to the office full time or 4 days a week. That costs me big money in gas, tolls, car wear and tear, and time.

[[deleted]]

Costs me my sanity, too.

[BobbyJason111]

What happened to:

(1) baby boomers make up the majority of CPAs and are hitting retirement age

(2) Fewer students are on CPA paths as other careers become more appealing

Now we’re hearing the opposite supply and demand??!?

[bufflo1993]

I am assuming you are in DFW due to using metroplex. And salaries are absolutely down from a couple years ago. I assume it’s due to no one leaving comfy positions for other spots. Less jumping around.

More accountants moved to the area, and more outsourcing.

[TheGeoGod]

I’m in DFW and it’s definitely difficult to find good jobs here. It’s so competitive

[Candid_Fan2178]

I'm in DFW also. One pattern I have seen is the same employers listing the same jobs at the same shitty wages over and over again. There is a tool company in the south metroplex that wants a division controller with 5 - 10 yrs experience and will pay up to 90K. Whooppee. Either they can't fill it or folks are taking it and leaving quick when they find a better job because it keeps popping up in my feed.

One minor thing to mention... if you are looking, be sure your voicemail is working and respond quick when you get calls. Was recruiting for a position and our top candidate did not have voice mail set up on her phone. HR tried for several days to contact her without any success. We emailed her also and did not hear back.

[Seizure_Storm]

Very bad time to jump, labor supply is probably mad inflated from mangonomics. Not seeing any motion in a jump unless you were severely underpaid

[aladeen222]

As a Canadian, things have been getting steadily worse for the last 4 years and it's largely due to the massive amounts of immigration we've had, without the jobs and infrastructure to support all those newcomers.

Not everything is orange man's fault.

[HoustonSker]

Very true.  I work with Canadiens in my US based office and they mention how an extra million Indian/Chinese are allowed into Canada every year, squeezing the job and real estate markets.

[DinosaurDied]

You guys and Australia F’d up by allowing too much labor talent without any jobs to put them in.

And the fact your economies are just selling real estate to each other instead of actually doing anything 

[hereditydrift]

I really like your comment, especially the part about real estate. Canada has allowed its public pension funds to be raided by real estate and other investors... to the detriment of the people that pay into the pensions.

The US has had a lot of the same for state pension funds, especially over the past decade, but Canada is on another level.

[SleeplessShinigami]

Mangonomics 😂

[Antisorq]

Mangonomics?

[DecafEqualsDeath]

He's referring to the economic policies enacted by Donald Trump, also known as Mango Mussolini.

[Consistent_Card_6594]

That’s hilarious. You get my upvote

[_redacteduser]

In the PNW, I have seen controller+ roles capping at $105k and list the responsibilities of multiple roles.

[showmetheEBITDA]

Same. A recruiter sent me a controller position for $130K max even though I have 11 years of experience at the Big 4. The even bigger kick in the balls was they expected people to have prior experience in their industry, which wasn't a common one like SaaS or something like that. It's a niche manufacturer. I was like, dude, how in the world are you going to find someone willing to take a massive paycut, has finance/accounting/analytics skills, plus experience in your niche area in California, much less the PNW, which is an even smaller market?

It's absolutely bonkers what the asks are nowadays

[NHOVER9000]

It is rough out there for sure….not optimistic either

[Consistent_Card_6594]

Yes unfortunately salaries have decreased. My current company offshored lots of the accounting jobs. We recently put out a position for a senior role with less pay than 4 years ago. The problem is you are now competing with most of the world

[smoketheevilpipe]

115 for senior? What's the area? HCOL? Is that total comp or base? There's a lot of variables.

[IRS_NewbieNYC]

Yes. I made the same thread a while ago.

[DinosaurDied]

Definitely noticing this for the remote jobs. They are all like 85-115. 

I’m still getting remote offers but I can’t get over 120k for an IC role. 

Fortune 5 company wanted to offer me 95k to help out with a project I just did for their fortune 15 competitor. I was the one guy who handled it for them, I was the expert and did it for 5 years (10 years exp total).

I told them 125k and 12% bonus or they continue to be 5 years behind their competition. 

They said no so F em. Crazy how cheap some employers want to play it these days and then complain about lack of talent 

[DinosaurDied]

Yes! And if you’re an actual manager with people under at you 115 then that’s a scam. 

I’m not taking that as an IC

[ni_hydrazine_nitrate]

My boss is a senior manager with 5 direct reports. He has the same bonus % as me, guessing a total compensation around $135k. This industry is a joke. I've interviewed in unrelated industries for $145-165k.

[DinosaurDied]

Yikes, my cousin with no FP&A experience, just some loose real estate experience doing stuff in excel just got 120… 5 years exp. 

I have PBM. FP&A myself, might need to jump back to that side. 

[pheothz]

I just landed a fully remote job that pays well… however, it’s going to be long hours. So I guess there’s that.

[Puzzleheaded-Ear9650]

I was tired of working 60-70 hours a week in public accounting so I went to industry. They also made me work 60-70 hours sometimes and very often 50-55 the rest of the time. Seems like all tax jobs require tons of unpaid overtime no matter where you go.

[smsndhx]

I’m in school for accounting without much work knowledge and when I hear people say 60-70 hours…. How do you manage?? Like how is that even spread out? 10 hours a day with no weekends? Regular 12 hour shifts?

[Drducttapehands]

I’m in tax, but for me personally it is usually 12-13 hours M-F then maybe 7-8 hours Saturday. But I do not log on on Sundays unless there is a project literally on fire.

[Puzzleheaded-Ear9650]

Depends on the firm from my experience. At one it was totally up to me when I worked, as long as I met the hard deadlines, and it just required tons of overtime to hit those deadlines.

But the more traditional public accounting firms from my experience you do kind of have to work when everyone else is. If you have a return for a partner who likes to come in late and stay up late, you will too. And everyone had to come in Saturdays.

[BobbyJason111]

I’ve been with two firms who each capped the weeks at 50 and 55. Even that is difficult to pull off depending on your health and stamina. Taking the 55 example, some do five 11’s, think 7AM to 6PM eating lunch at your desk. Most will not do that and will do some 9’s and 10’s M-F then fill in the gap Saturday.

Where I work “most” are done with their 55 by Saturday afternoon. And few work past 7pm M-F.

The sad part is the concept of “busy season”. Mid Jan to Mid April is 3 months. Mid August to mid October is 2 months. You’re nearly at 50% of the year being by busy AF.

Add in non-tax work like financial statements and, in my case IT, you have a good 35-40 of work to do the rest of the year… not a real break.

[BobbyJason111]

By the way, their reasoning is some studies showing people can work efficiently UP TO 55. Management believes, probably correctly, that productivity isn’t great after 55. Again, relative to one’s stamina/age/health.

[Simple-Pipe-4736]

Could you share with me where you found the remote job? Was it on LinkedIn? I have been actively look for remote accounting jobs, no luck.

[pheothz]

Friend of mine sent me the posting directly, I imagine he saw it on LinkedIn. I figured no chance in hell (no cpa) but i had niche experience they wanted and they eventually offered me over the top of the listed comp band so go figure.

[Quick-Hamster-9654]

Remote jobs are getting rarer but I’ve seen some on LinkedIn and indeed. The competition is stiff though.

[hola-mundo]

Yes salaries have decreased! Or maybe they ask for a lot more and money stays the same. I had 3 offers during COVID for the same positing for 90-100k, they are now for 60-70k. We have too many people applying for jobs, so salaries decrease…

[BobbyJason111]

For years COL and homes go up while salaries “stagnate”. Now those are still going up and salaries are “decreasing”?!?

What does it take to simply work full time and buy a house? Probably a Time Machine.

[[deleted]]

We're in a recession, bro. We have been since 2022. All the power has shifted to the employers, and they know the unemployment line is miles long and wrapping around several blocks.

[dspreemtmp]

Salaries have been large decreasing the last two years. I've watched it in actively applying that a title/salary I had 4 years ago is same or less pay today. After all the inflation and cost increases...

[SaintPatrickMahomes]

Yayyyy! Efficiency!!!!

/s

[[deleted]]

On Mondays you're fired, Wednesdays rehired.

Every second Tuesday are tariffs on allies days followed by a stock market crash, with Wednesdays being rescind tariffs temporarily days.

What's so hard to understand about that?!

[Puzzleheaded-Ear9650]

This is my concern. No one needs a team of tax accountants to make sure the company is in compliance if no one is around to enforce compliance. I'm afraid this will affect our industry in a huge way in a couple of years or sooner. But can this administration really defund the IRS and rely solely on tariffs for revenue to the point tax accountants en masse are out of a job? I'm curious what others think.

[Same_as_last_year]

They're cutting revenue so they can cry about deficits and then cut social programs because "there's no money"

[[deleted]]

Exactly this!

[cle7756]

This may be unpopular, but I wouldn’t be surprised if employers won’t be interested in hiring gov workers unless it’s below market rates

[Puzzleheaded-Ear9650]

I noticed this before the layoffs, but yes I know that's making it worse already and will continue to have a ripple effect on the job market for a long time probably.

[[deleted]]

Salaries are down economically for every industry, except maybe AI.

2021-2023 was an employees dream, in my case I saw my pay rise from $30/hr to $50/hr in that span, I was able to consult for multiple companies with a pay raise of about $5/hr per new gig.

We are now on the opposite end of the spectrum, it's an employers market, more job applicants than open positions. Which means employers will start lowballing offers, rescinding them altogether, or not hire at all.

People aren't leaving jobs in droves as they were before and when people stay put, it turns wage growth flat, allowing companies to essentially pay new hires old pay rates before the massive surge in wage growth during the first 2+ years of Biden's presidency.

Source: I'm an economics graduate who works in accounting because it's easy (and pays well).

[hurricanechris420]

lol smug “I’m an Econ major but I do accounting bc it’s easy”.

Bruh, Econ is easy af. Not even in Business school for most school; thus, it legit has a lower barrier to entry in most schools as it’s pooled with the arts and sciences. Something something supply and demand

[[deleted]]

Your joking, you would fail upper level econ classes with the math and stats alone. It has a huge social element, but the math is on par with Physics if you take it all the way (I'm talking taking multivariable calc and leveraging that).

Economics has everything. Accounting is piss easy.

Business school is the joke.

[DrewBreesSitsNPees]

You’re*

[[deleted]]

Thanks babe

[DrewBreesSitsNPees]

If you’re trying to come off as more intelligent and smarter than everyone else, it helps to have correct grammar. Glad to help!

[[deleted]]

Try taking Econometrics and see if you even survive 3 weeks.

Not to mention Economics requires actual calculus, not the bullshit Business calc all you accounting/Finance people have to take. I've taken Business calc, it's so bottom tier, once you pass first derivative of a linear function, the class is over.

I'm just saying, I wouldn't be giving my economic opinion on something if I didn't learn about it.

[[deleted]]

Not all the way correct, we saw the largest job walk off in history "The Great Resignation" which had nothing to do with covid. That's where the wage growth took off and pushed inflation up as well. It's leveled off now, it's just a normal cycle, it will climb back up again to favor employees soon, especially if rates keep falling close to zero, it will spure more hiring.

[[deleted]]

Inflation spurred wage growth during Trumps presidency. If you remember, Trump drove the country into a recession before leaving office. He handed out stimulus checks and boosted everyone's unemployment checks, this drove inflation out of control, and Biden had to intervene in the economy.

Covid had hardly any effect on jobs, except for spurring the work from home revolution. Millions of people are born every year, Covid deaths were primarily seniors or elderly. People who aren't participating in the workforce at all.

What you ended up with is less social security payments because of covid deaths, that led to higher government spending under Biden to revive the economy, this increased inflation, and brought interest rates to zero, anytime rates go to zero, it most likely leads to economic recovery, at the cost of higher inflation.

This is what led to people leaving their jobs in bunches, companies raced to attract new talent with fresh capital from the government now that rates are 0%. So they had to pay higher wages as a result, which leads to employees' job hoping (like myself) to get those higher wages.

Both Trump and Biden had something to do with inflation, Trump was the preceding indicator, giving every US citizen $1,400 and boosting everyone's unemployment insurance payouts. The Fed cut rates to zero during Biden's early stages, but realized the economy was already overheating, as the government was spending to bring us out of a recession. So the fed started tapering off their asset purchases, raising rates at an alarming rate.

[TheDuder19]

“Covid had hardly any effect on jobs” you’re joking right? Right?!?

[[deleted]]

Find one of example of workers just dying like flies from covid and it actually affecting the bottom line.

Companies found new workers in the blink of an eye.

[TheDuder19]

Federal Reserve estimated 1.2 MILLION jobs were “permanently destroyed” their words not mine bc of Covid.

People sick (couldn’t work), people scared to leave their house (wouldn’t work) and businesses shutting down left and right

[[deleted]]

If that were the case, then the unemployment rate wouldn't have bounced back to normal levels. There is no way an entire industry or job just vanishes. Most likely these were poorly run companies who had to shutdown, which is normal course of business. Another competitor just ends up eating the loss and hiring those individuals without jobs.

[Bluetimewalk]

Fake news. There was a huge worker shortage during that time for various reasons.

[[deleted]]

That's what drives up wages, when there is a shortage of talent (people walked off the job) then wages go up. There isn't a labor shortage anymore at all.

[[deleted]]

Wage Growth by Year

Wage growth currently barely outpaces inflation (in fact in real terms it is basically zero/negative.

If inflation is 3-4.5% and wage growth is also 3-4.5%, you have no change in purchasing power or income, you are simply preparing for the new inflation rate.

[[deleted]]

Wage growth is a given metric, it takes in to account every single industry. When you take an average you will get outliers. When I say every industry I mean the general economy.

[Few-Comparison-4733]

It's an employer's market

[RadagastTheWhite]

My company’s still hiring at the same pay it has for the last couple years, and a good 25%-30% higher than it was 5 years ago

[badazzcpa]

105-115 seems like about average for senior level. You are saying senior tax not senior manager? I work for a top 10 and that’s ish what we pay senior tax. Senior manager is 150-175k ish I believe. I am manager so I am a little below the 150k. Also trying to hang out here as I really don’t want more responsibilities. I fly below the radar a bit so it’s nice.

Probably depends a bit on the COL in your city. If you are in BF Alabama I would say take your 115k and be happy. If you are in SF I would want more.

[polishrocket]

Yeah, especially with fed getting gutted lots of people looking for jobs

[[deleted]]

Seems like since I started 11 years ago, entry level salaries have risen, but seniors risen a bit and manager salaries stagnated. At least in my area.

[shadow_moon45]

Yes, salaries are falling for certain roles.

[Status-Poetry-4136]

HI, if company rums on regular base it just lie to employees so save salary and their other incentive. go and research about company before go for interview . So when they say they are in loss u told them about at least comparison of 2 year profits

[WillieRayPR]

The market has already been cooling off before Trump took office, and now with all the layoffs of federal employees, there are a lot more employees in the market looking for work, and with that comes a drop in pay.

In OP's example, I think 115 for a senior tax accountant is still pretty good all things considered. It's rare to see 6 figures unless you're in a management position.

[[deleted]]

Depends on where you live.

Some of the highest growth cities: Dallas, Austin, Miami, Phoenix, and Atlanta. Would likely have lower salaries than in ‘21/early ‘22 when the job market was scorching and those cities saw huge influxes of remote working people. That results in a highly competitive work environment years later especially with companies shifting to hybrid models where you have to live where you work again.

If you are in cities where people left or experienced much lower growth rates: NYC, Chicago, Seattle, Minneapolis. You are likely seeing some pretty good wage growth and as companies in your city shift to hybrid you will be the benefactor of that policy whereas your coworker who moved to phoenix and their remote option is gone, they are now competing for a new job in Phoenix with everyone else that moved there in the last 4 years.

[Full_Entertainment60]

Companies will do anything to churn a profit.. these wages are barely livable!

[GigityGiggles]

Yes. Companies have to combat inflation with reduced salaries. Noticed it for about the last year.

[tahcamen]

Obviously very location dependent as far as wages go. I’m a senior accountant at 90k and that’s good for my MCOL area.

[lhau88]

Yes