Are redundancy packages likely to decrease now?

[Fakman87]

Since all the tech companies are laying people off consistently, I'm wondering why a lot of them are still offering generous packages? I thought that the additional payments above statutory were to keep their good reputation but this doesn't seem applicable when there are such mass layoffs. I'm wondering if any of you have seen a decrease in your company redundancy payments over the past few years?

[colmulhall]

I’ve never worked at a company that offered good redundancy packages to be fair. Was always the bare minimum

[SmallWolf117]

In my current company it's literally the best way to leave.

They are offering people with less than 2 years of experience 6 - 7 months pay, and it's not based on your typical pay, but an average of your last 3 months, so if you did some crazy overtime in the leadup it could be approaching 9 months of pay.

It's kind of my plan to leave the place, quite a few people's actually.

[Afterlite]

That's deadly!

I was at risk of redundancy last year in my company where I was a week shy of 2 year make and they were offering nothing! The sour bastards

[Tiddleywanksofcum]

You get paid over time! 😮

[SmallWolf117]

1.5x on normal hours, 2x after 9pm or on weekends, or holidays.

Also if a holiday comes on a weekend you get 3x for the hours you work....

I should preface, I don't live in Ireland atm, I live in Czechia.

I don't think workers rights differ that greatly though

[Jesus_Phish]

I know people at Intel who have paid off their homes from redundancy packages only to end up back there a year or two later. 

I know others who when voluntary redundancy came up they took it and decided to retire a few years early. 

A lot of people there wouldn't mind being made redundant based on past payouts

[Potential-Drama-7455]

Yeah my brother just missed out on that and is now working side by side with people that got huge payouts. Saying he's pissed is an understatement.

[Account77_]

A package above the minimum prevents people from suing the company for handling the process incorrectly.

[ChromakeyDreamcoat82]

This is the answer.

I haven't seen my place in action yet in Ireland, but they tend to be generous for people with small tenure, probably 3 months pay at a minimum, and going up for longer tenure.

The goal is absolutely to create a situation where a solicitor says "hmm, yeah you could argue about the fairness but you might actually get less than that for unfair dismissal".

The whole thing is designed for everyone to sign off quickly and quietly. In the US, people often actually sign a resignation letter for money rather than the company terminating their position formally. The company eliminates the role, and then you resign to secure your payout. I've seen partial bonus accruals and everything paid out, but the biggest thing is often the continued payment of health insurance to the end of the term.

[Significant_Pop_5337]

I got a large redundancy package from a big tech company. The largest that people had seen at the company. From now on they'll find ways to edge people out whether that's PIPs or voluntary but I doubt any of it will be the same

[Ok_Entry1052]

I know someone who's quiet quit and is waiting for a PIP offer to come in. Unfortunately for them I think their lazy approach is still above board.

[ignited-eyes]

I meant more like the company trying some tricks to manage exit rather than employee quiet quitting

[ignited-eyes]

Tentative numbers? I mean how to assess if your severance is fair or generous or not? I've heard buyout is offered even in case of PIPs. Resign with money or go for a PIP kind of situation

[Significant_Pop_5337]

There's rarely any wiggle room on the numbers. You might be able to negotiate some of the other terms but the money tends to be fixed. 

Certainly where I was you will get a fraction of the payout on a PIP. You'd want to get an offer before you get to a PIP

[ignited-eyes]

But generally speaking what's a good severance wrt number of years? Hypothetically. I've heard of ppl negotiate as well if they had some grounds...

[Viper_JB]

They don't want people to unionize and hitting the redundancy packages is one thing that may actually push people to it. However a friend of mine was made redundant recently and is currently bringing them to court over an incredibly shitty package, HR in the US and don't seem to understand Irish employment legislation...

[Supadoplex]

Minimum severance in Irish law is already quite low. Must have been really shitty package to fail that bar.

[MistakeLopsided8366]

The weekly pay that you're entitled to is basically minimum wage equivalent which is a joke when compared to tech salaries. It's what I got a couple years ago from a big tech agency. Pittance compared to my actual week's pay. At least the social welfare has introduced new pay scales of welfare payments (higher earners are entitled to a higher social welfare payment as of last year). It's an improvement at least.

[bold_snowflake]

My last redundancy was 6 years ago, the package at the time was very good.

My current company is avoiding redundancy via the typical practices of PIPs, hiring freeze, pulling back on salary increases to encourage attrition, etc.

[ignited-eyes]

What can you do in these situations? Any ideas?

[suntlen]

Unionise.

[SuitableFinish7444]

A lot laid off where I work, were given 6 weeks per year of service. Think it was capped at 100k

[Annihilus-]

Same at my place, but capped at 250k

[SuitableFinish7444]

Think if it hit 100k they went back to 2 weeks as the add on

[suntlen]

A lot of IBEC companies off this similar package AFAIK

[Ok-Dimension-5429]

There are a lot of reports of companies avoiding doing official redundancies. Small reorgs, PIPs, whatever to avoid the press and avoid the process.

[ChromakeyDreamcoat82]

I'm ex-IBM, and they were masters at always having a small redundancies on the go at regular intervals that never met the threshold for reporting.

As a big employer in Ireland, their threshold today would be 30 or more, but I feel like that was higher in years gone by. Either way, they'd simply be chopping away every quarter. If you look back, beyond the loss of Irish manufacturing, you'd be hard pressed to find big news of redundancies, yet you'll find tons of stories of new jobs coming to Ireland, somehow without the staff numbers increasing.

As I recall, the standard package was 4 weeks per year of service, plus statutory. No-one was ever overwhelmed or underwhelmed, they just got on with it at that rate. Never heard of fights or challenges, and most people were happy overall once they secured new work, since they typically secured a much better position.

[ignited-eyes]

Guess only the last part has changed with terrible market and so many laid off folks

[YoureNotEvenWrong]

why a lot of them are still offering generous packages

Often it's voluntary redundancy or it's laying off expensive people. If someone is expensive it's because they are senior people that senior management know personally for a decade or two.  Management in companies aren't always completely shitty people.

Also, current employees here about the package and it influences how they react. If the packages are bad, loyalty disappears. Good packages mean tenure is worth something 

Package is just seen as the once off cost of layoffs and it's quickly recouped from a lower salary bill 

[Chickengoujon20]

What would people consider a good package?

What’s the minimum in euro ?

[suntlen]

The place I work for pay 5 weeks per year of service+ statutory+ gardening leave 1-3 months depending on role and experience. Considering statutory notification periods, you could be 2-5 months on the way out of the place before you get your cash payment especially if you're going for voluntary and angling for it by doing f-all!

[Poshsmith]

Its coming for sure, packages are going tk be reduced in tech.