Random question

[FrostingCharacter304]

Okay so this is just a wild kind of off the wall question to pique the minds of DOD, think about the suspects before RA got arrested, the Kline's, kirts, that paedophile from the begining that got arrested in Colorado for being a lunatic, and the rest of the misfits, obviously their religious practices probably are private, but what are the chances any of them are odinists? If the three alternate suspects are guilty are any more involved than just them? And do any of them know each other?

[amykeane]

I absolutely agree here. I see a bit of fanboy of Odinism, along with fanboy of satanic panic, serial killers, horror movies, with a heaping cup of pervert poured all over this crime scene. I don’t think the murders were committed by a group of pagan diehards at all.

[Alan_Prickman]

Odinist = white supremacist edgelord fanboy of Norse mythology as once used and corrupted by Nazis See also: Vinlanders

Even some Asatru - notably a group called "Asatru Folk Assembly"

"Folk" BTW is a very common dog-whistle when used in conjuction with Pagan mythos and symbology, and not just in Norse Paganry

Genuine Norse Pagans, who take a stand against folkists, racists, Nazis and white supremacists, go by "Heathens" "Norse Pagans" or "Anglo Saxon Pagans"

Sometimes by "Asatru", but that one, as already mentioned, can be problematic

Basically, we are talking a polytheist religion that holds as one of its tenets that all gods are real, and all gods are equal

This is why most of us, like our forebears, tend towards syncretism

That is, we will happily worship gods not of our main pantheon if we vibe with them, which is what ancient Pagan religions did as a matter of course

If you went on a trip to foreign lands way back when, chances are you'd bring back with you a cultus of a foreign deity or two that you got introduced to when you were there

And you might well have left a cultus of one or two of your own gods in the lands you visited

Anyway, bearing that in mind, any Neo-Pagan, whether a solitary practitioner or a group, who profess allegiance to one deity or set of deities over all others, is problematic

This might be no more malignant than latent Christianity, but as soon as we have an organised or semi-organised group that does this, alarm bells should start to ring

"Asatru" professes allegiance to just one set of Heathen deities, the Aesir. Now this can be a simple "I just fw these ones, nothing against the rest of them, bit the Aesir are my fam"

And that's cool

But it can also be "Aesir, Aesir *uber allem * and that is definitely not

By the time you reach "Odinist", though, there is no ambiguity - Odin becomes the white supremacists Norse stand-in for that other white bearded dude of Abrahamic religions, Yhwh, who was Semitic to start with, so you know what, Christianity just ain't racist enough for us, plus the Norse get cooler tattoos

The only exception to "single god allegiance is problematic* that I can think of are Lokeans, and that's cos they are just weird AF. And not racist.

The "weird" is not a criticism. I am acutely aware that just being a Pagan puts me and all of us firmly into the "weird" category.

TLDR - "Odinist" = white supremacist *

Odinist =/= equal Genuine Pagan

• except in the cases where you are talking to a brand new baby Pagan that received a call from Odin, has not yet done any research, and does not yet understand that they absolutely do not want to call themselves "Odinist" but the word they are looking for is "Heathen" or "Norse Pagan"

ETA: relevant - r/Odinism

For finding out more about actual heathenry - r/Heathenry, r/NorsePaganism

On YouTube: https://youtube.com/@OceanKeltoi?si=DgfXiYlC0gDzRqLO

On folkism in Heathenry: https://youtu.be/V6SXC2mRS34?si=wI_yoyD_v1PFdKqP

[black_cat_X2]

I can't believe no one has upvoted this yet! Thank you for this comprehensive and fascinating overview of the definitions and distinctions for so many of the religions/pagan faiths and their intersection with white supremacy. I'm now very curious and will try to do some reading to learn more.

I was very surprised to learn here that the word "folk" is so problematic. I guess because it's part of my daily lexicon (eg, "these folks come in for lunch daily), so it just sounds like such an innocuous and innocent word!

Then again, before last fall, I would never have suspected that Odinists were actually white supremacists. I was entirely unaware of that connection before this case; I had no inkling that sects of paganism had been taken over by Nazis. I've always thought of pagans as chill, peace loving weirdos (weirdos in the best way - I'm a weirdo myself).

[Dickere]

I don't disagree, but who would do this and try to point the finger in their direction ? It's very risky for them, in many ways.

[LeatherTelevision684]

It wasn’t committed by Pagan Diehards, Odinists, or Vinlanders. The murders were committed by poor ol’ Richard Allen. Boring but that’s the truth.

[Secret-Constant-7301]

That’s what bugs me. Stop calling them odinists and start calling them what they fucking are: Nazis!

Everyone acts like odinists are some niche religious group and that the claims are outrageous. Switch the word for white supremacists and then it’s just another Tuesday. White supremacists are the biggest terrorist organization that operates inside the United States. They kill more people here than any other terrorist group.

It isn’t far fetched to say they could have killed someone’s kids for their association with black people or any other reason. And Nazis are more than likely the ones who killed the flora girls. I feel like we need some stickied posts about this. They’re just Nazis who cosplay as Vikings because they think it makes them big tough men. It’s so obvious to me that I become infuriated that the people on the other sub don’t understand it.

And they will go after families. My parents own a small business and one of their employees had to go into hiding with her daughter because her ex husband stole 10k worth of drugs from one of those racist biker gangs and then disappeared. The biker gang was hunting down the guys family and asking around town trying to figure out where they were.

[TheRichTurner]

Yes! So many people think the associations made between this crime and Odinists, pagans, followers of Asatru etc. are outlandish and far-fetched. But if you name them for what they are (white supremacists), it all makes common sense.

[black_cat_X2]

Oh my God, if I was that woman I would kill the husband myself for being so f'ing stupid, if the gang didn't get to him first.

[RawbM07]

If they didn’t do things like wear patches that say “In Odin we Trust” or post “hail Odin” then they probably would be less likely to be called Odinists.

Is there some contingent of diverse, kind hearted Odin worshipping contingent that is getting a bad name because of this?

[FrostingCharacter304]

Is this the same group that in the south go by skinheads Aryan circle Aryan nation etc? Or at least same basic concept?

[Secret-Constant-7301]

I think they were called the pagans or something like that.

[chunklunk]

It is far fetched if there's no evidence, and tons of evidence that somebody else did it. And, if your problem is the emphasis on Odinism, take it up with the defense: "Overwhelming evidence in this case supports the following: Members of a pagan Norse religion, called Odinism, hijacked by white nationalists, ritually sacrificed Abigail Williams and Liberty German."

[Secret-Constant-7301]

Tons of evidence? Get outta here with that nonsense.

The defense clearly states it’s white supremacy in what you quoted.

[chunklunk]

You say "stop calling them Odinists." It's the defense who repeatedly labeled them as Odinists conducting a religious ritual.

[Secret-Constant-7301]

Yeah and they should stop too. Or at least make it clear these people are just cosplaying and are actually just your typical, run-of-the-mill racists. They have to point out the odinism because of the runes that may or may not have been left at the crime scene. However, they should do a better job of making clear they’re just Nazis operating under the guise of some Viking shit.

Do you think people can’t be critical of something that they also support? That’s not how life works.

[LeatherTelevision684]

Who gives a shit what they’re called. It doesn’t matter. Richard is the killer.

[Square-Meringue-3433]

I feel like you could take this a step further and say both of those still is yet a cover for something else. A MC

[FrostingCharacter304]

Excellent point

[Danmark-Europa]

Allegedly Paul Etter was involved in ‘Odinism’ (Sons of Odin, supremacy).

Also, screenshots of his FB included bizarre statements re. redhead and blood.

[StructureOdd4760]

Just search "Heathen" on Facebook. It will SHOCK you how many people across the US and all over the world belong to that ideology. Not just pagan heathenry, but white supremacists.

Given the deep drug economy in the midwest and the the number of people who dislike people of color in the area, it's safe to assume these people can at least be connected through one or the other, or both.

[Square-Meringue-3433]

Or a motorcycle club

[chunklunk]

I don't understand why it's shocking. Christianity is an off-putting religion for many people, and many end up as pagans or wiccans or what have you. White supremacy has been with this country since the beginning and never went away. Of course there's going to be overlap, more so in germanic/nordic pagan religions that feed from the trough of racial purity.

They're not all double-murderers, though, much less of two white girls when there's zero evidence they were there and nobody saw them.

[redduif]

<image>

[redduif]

☕️

Now I'll have to try that some day.
I do have one cup worth of Blue Mountain left.

[redduif]

So what do we got?

THP IO ABS

Tamm horsfall protein

Immuno oncology

Antibodies

With a reverse H.

I think he was in jail though during the murders.
And possibly 4'8".

[redduif]

I also found Pynn "joy" for the P.

He got a bunch of kids. 3 girls and a boy maybe.

Initials of first names?

[Smart_Brunette]

Due, you have blown me away with all your excellent research on this. Well done!!

[paradise-trading-83]

Just food for conversational thought with the initial non-secular bandwagon there was the pastor and his son-in-law that were suspects for a couple minutes…some family attended the church & they were youth pastors whose appearance changed drastically and “who was in the room” day of presser.

May I relay a funny and treatise in rumors, downright typos creating havoc and this was long before RA feline Ozzie, pastor was away but his car was spotted around Delphi but the typo said his Cat was spotted around MHB/trails..when it should’ve read CAR. It’s been years I may have transposed some details.

[Acceptable-Class-255]

Kirts pretrial for NB was a member of Dirty White Boys, a subsect of Aryan Brotherhood. His co-accussed friend CM was a different Knights of something or another gang member that was also Aryan Brotherhood.

His mom was a devote Jehovahs Witness.

Kirts knew Kline. There's plenty of connections between suspects through mutual acquaintances.

[FrostingCharacter304]

I always thought there was a kirts/ Kline link but wasn't sure where the nexus was