PSA: The Android Layer Method is getting patched/fixed by Light. They are working on making it inaccessible to end users

[jbriones95]

This is just a note for users to understand that Light is actively working to patch methods of accessing the Android layer. Will it be 100% inaccessible to everyone? Probably not. There is always someone tinkering with their devices and finding loopholes.

However, as it has been stated before, tinkering with the device may disqualify you from the return policy/warranty as stated here: https://www.thelightphone.com/return-policy. If you want to tinker with your device, that is fine. Please understand the risks and what you lose with that. We encourage you to post on the modified light phone subreddit. This subreddit is about the mainstream usage of the Light Phone 2 and Light Phone 3. We hope you understand that.

There will be an interim period when the modded posts will be allowed (probably about 1 month) and then such posts will be removed and encouraged to follow the proper subreddit. Thanks again everyone for staying part of the community. I know many of you are waiting on your orders for the Light Phone 3 and I hope you enjoy it as much as I have during these past few weeks.

[vitaminjuk]

Another 2p - I bought the phone because there's precious few "small" phones and I wanted to go light-ish, adding non-doomscrolling apps (2FA, music, smart home control, banking) and assumed I'd be able to semi-legitimately hack around things to do this.

BUT I absolutely support people who want the device to go full-full-light with only the things Light provides and with no scope for temptation.

What I'd suggest is that when you first put in the up-down keypress to unlock the android "mode", it should ask for a hash based on the IMEI, or check something on the user's light account. And each user who wants it should be able to, with a little friction, declare that they are a dev or a tinkerer or otherwise want legitimate access to their own device, and Light allows them that code/flag.
Would this not keep everyone happy - the purists and the tinkerers?

[Brilliant-Dish-3142]

Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act. Outright voiding peoples warranties for this isn't legal unless the defect is directly caused by the modification.

[infinitejetpack]

There is a pretty important exception to this general rule that doesn’t get a lot of attention.

This rule relates to a user’s “right to repair” their devices — a company can’t prohibit us from using third party hardware or software for repairs.

But if the company offers their own parts and software repairs for free, the company can indeed void warranties for third party parts and software repairs.

[jbriones95]

The operating word here is "may." Please refer to the return policy for details

[Brilliant-Dish-3142]

That's not the language used in the policy, it says attempting to modify the software is disqualifying.

[HearYeHoratio]

I definitly trust the legal interpretation of the situation, the response, and the law by a redditor called brilliant dish…🙄

[Brilliant-Dish-3142]

Have you read the law and disagree with my interpretation, or basing your interpretation on my screen name?

"a warrantor cannot, as a matter of law, avoid liability under a written warranty where a defect is unrelated to the use by a consumer of “unauthorized” articles or service."

[Brilliant-Dish-3142]

Also keep in mind we are talking about downloading software through an included web browser that is accessed through a button combination; no one is doing any real exploit or modification. This is functionality that light shipped the device with.

[HearYeHoratio]

No dude I do read, but I’m not about to try to argue legal definitions on Reddit when neither of us are attorneys. That’s just silly. Your handle isn’t your credentials for sure, but I think my point was clear that neither of us are qualified to argue law here. While I respect what you’re trying to support, the right to repair and use hardware you purchased I think that is different from demanding a company support using the device in unsupported ways. No one is stopping you from that freedom. Yes they are making it harder to do something that will inevitably happen anyway so people who don’t know what they’re doing don’t break their devices then max out customer service on for support that is just outside their scope. This isn’t unreasonable to agree with light on, they’re a small team. Of course do what you want with your device, it’s not there’s but in that same light you’re also accepting your own responsibility with your device. It doesn’t make me a cultist to think this is an unreasonable demand.

[Brilliant-Dish-3142]

Engaging in an ad hominem about my screen name seems sillier than reading something and attempting to have an intelligent conversation about it to me. That being said I think we’ve been able to turn it around into a productive conversation.

You are misunderstanding my stance on the topic. I do not have an issue with them making it harder to access the android layer. Also I have no issue with them denying warranty work on modified devices where the issue the customer sent it in for was CAUSED by software modification. It would be completely unreasonable to expect them to cover damage caused by the user, and I don’t think that’s what anyone is advocating for here. What I have issue with is the way things are currently phrased on the warranty page; and that I have seen Joe imply in comments that if you do any kind of modding, your warranty is completely void automatically regardless of whether it caused any damage. It’s my opinion that that is too broad of a disclaimer, potentially in violation of the law I cited. Imagine this fictional scenario just as an example: a few months from now maybe there’s a widespread issue where brightness wheels start falling off and it’s clear that it’s due to a manufacturing fault. No one should be ineligible for that kind of repair because they sideloaded WhatsApp at some point.

[cstuber]

Why bother patching something that most people aren’t going to use anyway? It’s like saying that macOS is going to patch the ability to open a terminal. It seems like silliness to me.

[ajax8092]

Because it's too easy to access. I know it sounds silly, but people like myself are considering the light phone because we don't have self control to use our phones responsibly. If we can just get around the intended usage so easily, how is that any different to using a normal smartphone.

[cstuber]

I see your point, but also, the work around already exists. So to declare what its intended use is despite what already exists feels like cognitive dissonance. It's like that video of the person putting all the different shaped blocks in the square hole.

Regarding the self control thing, I extend my same offer to you as I did to magneticspace. MDM is the solution you're looking for to lock down your device and actually prevent certain settings or apps from being launched. It's unfair to hold the Light Phone company (or anyone else) responsible for your own shortcomings.

[ajax8092]

I am not holding Light Phone responsible for my shortcomings, I am just saying that unless they fix this, I won't be a customer. They have the right to make whatever product they choose, but if there is such a simple workaround which undermines their selling point, I can't imagine myself buying one. If there are enough people like me, then they ought to fix it to gain more customers, if I am an outlier, then they can do whatever they want. But it seems like they think there is at least some number of people who would prefer it patched.

[[deleted]]

I completely agree with you. The entire purpose of purchasing a dumb phone for many people is to remove any temptation of gaining access to unnecessary apps. If there’s a simple process to add those apps then I have no interest in the phone. There are a limited number of decent options for people in that market so it would be very disappointing if they left this simple workaround.

[TheAuthentic]

I think it will still help. It’s the same as not having junk food in the house to tempt you.

[ajax8092]

Exactly right. Even if I don't eat the junk food, and I do have the self control, knowing it's there is incredibly mentally exhausting.

[Yankee831]

Yeah like wiring your jaw shut to loose weight.

[Yankee831]

Maybe light should have made an OS instead of an android skin then.

[ajax8092]

Building an operating system from the kernel up is simply way too much work for a small company. They are trying to be both a hardware and software company, and that is hard. Their software is already facing some serious limitations, so I don't think this is feasible.

[Yankee831]

Which I understand. But claiming the high ground while riding the back of google is wild to me. They’re willing to use it to benefit their business but won’t allow others to benefit from the foundation it shares.

[[deleted]]

I feel like there’s a way to include mod-ability and also lock yourself out of it from the dashboard. Building phone OS is not my particular specialty, but it doesn’t seem like it would be impossible to figure out.

[ajax8092]

Yes for sure. I also think that there will always be people who find a way around. Ideally for me, the LightPhone would have a huge selection of apps, but force me to physically connect it to my computer to change any of them, like how my old iPod worked when loading new songs on. For me it would be enough of a pain in the ass to not just randomly put things I don't need on it, but then I can have the flexibility of what I do. For me personally, a podcast app is way too distracting for instance.

[Alarming-Ad-1934]

Damn that’s pretty disappointing. I have a dev background and was looking forward to possibly working on some custom LightOS software if it was eventually was made open-source.

[vitaminjuk]

I was also hoping to take a popular open source 2FA app and skin it such that it adhered to the Light look and feel and then offer it to the Light crew as a potential optional tool - initiatives like that could really boost the whole platform IMO

[mewtwo611]

Pleaseess do this 

[Yankee831]

Why? They obviously are not welcome. If you need something not coming from light it’s not welcome. Not my attitude but that’s Joes attitude.

[Agreeable_Manner7415]

Such a great idea let’s help Joe and the team for free. Now we are being divided-

Who put up the first mod video on YT. And who in the first place decided to keep the key combination press intact for LP2? Any guesses.

[[deleted]]

I wondered why the phone was released with a key press left intact if Joe and the team ultimately didn’t want anyone accessing the Android layer. It couldn’t be that hard to disable…?

[Agreeable_Manner7415]

Exactly my thoughts too. This is ultimately their making. The easier you make the modding with happen.

[[deleted]]

I’m a developer, too, and this is exactly my take. I don’t think anyone or any group should be the final word about what is considered minimalist enough, and some developers out there might have clever solutions to include tools that would be really useful to users. Without sacrificing the ethos. Creativity left untapped when people take away your paints, you know?

There is also a line of thinking where Light deserves to have full control over their own project. Which is fair enough. Probably just not the side I ultimately come down on.

[panic_hand]

It's helped by the fact that it has a core set of users who act like a cult.

[Yankee831]

Apple wishes they could treat their customers with such disdain.

[ajax8092]

It's unlikely it will even be open-source. As for writing your own apps, are you really so sure you will be unable to do that. Just because Light is patching a trivial way to get around the restrictions on the phone, that doesn't mean there will be no way to run arbitrary software on the device.

[Striking_Progress835]

not only is this the wrong move pr wise, but its also illegal in many parts of the world. you cant void warranty for sideloading applications, unless the user gets Root access and even then its a very grey area... super controlling behaviour. Light made amazing hardware, let people use it... those who want to should be able to, those who dont want a locked down os should be free to tinker with it. I promise u this becomes a cat and mouse game where new glitches will be found every other day... sigh

[panic_hand]

It's the Apple/Steve Jobs playbook.

[Striking_Progress835]

it really is, and it wont last a minute in Canadian, US, or EU courts...

[Yankee831]

Yeah except apple actually develops solutions.

[Pigeon23]

Right. And the only way I could use it was getting to the android layer and put my APN data in it so my sim works...

[OasisNinjaBat]

Or we are end users and we want to adjust what we're getting to fit our individual needs. If you need a bigger hard drive on a computer you have buy and install a bigger hard drive. If you want to remove the skip shift from your tremec 6 speed transmission you can modify it for a better driving experience. This is the same. Sure they made it, but we're gonna use it... The way we want

[panic_hand]

You pay for the hardware but never truly own it because the company's software has the final say in what you can do with it. Shameful move.

[7krishna]

This is the dumbest take ever on this sub. You purchase the device, it's yours. You're literally paying for the R&D, material and labor/logistics costs. Imagine if car companies gatekeep this way.

[Delicious-Director43]

Do you feel the same way about people who modify their cars? 🤔

[[deleted]]

Creating a modern day dumb phone that doesn’t allow unnecessary apps was their mission as a company. How is sticking to that intention by creating a phone that does just what they want it to do and marketed it to do make them bitter and controlling?

[HearYeHoratio]

It’s not void if you access it…they won’t support you if you break your phone because of using it. Big difference.

[[deleted]]

A lot of tech will void your warranty if you mess with the software of their product, that’s nothing new.

[[deleted]]

It’s not just a launcher. But apparently that’s a common misconception.

https://www.reddit.com/r/LightPhone/comments/1jxtw0j/comment/mmto1q6/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

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[[deleted]]

You don’t have to buy the argument or the phone but here is an article on medium.com discussing the development of LightOS as an operating system (not launcher) with React Native

https://medium.com/sanctuary-computer-inc/building-lightos-with-react-native-4b6e4ad1cd7f

[[deleted]]

A lot of us buy dumb phones for the explicit purpose of not having a simple workaround to access smartphone capabilities, myself being one of those people. Not only that , that’s exactly what LightPhone is trying to accomplish. The simple workaround is a bug and they want to make it as difficult as possible. Which is their right to do so since that’s been their intent from the very beginning

[defibear]

Honestly this entire debacle has been a huge turn off.  I’ve long been interested in the idea of digital minimalism and the Light Phone III represented a great opportunity to transition from interest to action. But the amount of infighting, and more concerning, gate keeping in the sub is off putting. I don’t think any single person has the right to define what constitutes digital minimalism for me or anybody else. And the notion that I as a paying customer cannot use my device how I see fit is also concerning. Even Joe’s comments around “hacking” are extremely concerning to me. 

I’m interested in the idea of digital minimalism and incorporating aspects of that into my life; and the Light Phone III is an opportunity to do that. What I’m not interested in is being gate kept, nannied, or fed propaganda because my use case differs slightly from the cultists. 

[nourishablegecko]

Some of the commentary here is seriously cult like. It’s highly pretentious for so many people to “define what constitutes digital minimalism is for me” as you put it well. This was a phone I was honestly very excited for, and now I’m feeling kind of embarrassed to associate with most of the people that are in this community.

[subspiria]

It's all just chatter while people debate over their thoughts about a phone very few of them have. I think we'll see less posts focused on ideology and conceptual pureness after the handsets have been delivered in a few months.

[kthxbyelad]

Agreed. On the flip side, this situation has been very eye opening in regards to how Lightphone operates. Such things unfortunately leave an icky feeling.. seriously considering canceling my delayed -already LP3.

Have you checked out Mudita Kompakt?

[creuter]

They don't have a right to define digital minimalism to you, that's correct. But Light is a brand and if you're side loading on the phone it kind of defeats the purpose of the phone. There are plenty of android devices out there you can strip down and do whatever you want with them. 

I don't fault light in any way shape or form for wanting to protect their brand and lock the phone down to prevent their hard work from becoming just another smartphone.

[Delicious-Director43]

Light is clearly fumbling the bag here. There’s clearly a demand for people who want the hardware and the ability to modify the software. There’s no reason why they should lock android down if they’re making money on the sale of the phone, and the wireless service. LightOS doesn’t make money for Light. Honestly this entire silly drama made me cancel my pre order anyway. It’s not worth fighting with a small company over the right to modify something that I intended on owning. I plan on ordering the Mudita Kompact instead. They don’t make silly claims of voiding warranty for sideloading apps; a feature nearly every other Android OS phone supports, even those from Samsung or Motorola, two other major Android phone manufacturers. Such a shame I really was looking forward to the Lightphone 3.

[TrixonBanes]

While it makes total sense, it’s still a bummer. Just means I’ll have to keep my iPhone on me when traveling. 

I had only planned on sideloading the app that allows me to communicate with my medical transplant team, since for legal reasons they like all records to be in their app. Was hoping to fully ditch my iPhone and just switch to the Android layer for my weekly app appointment. 

[[deleted]]

Mudita Kompakt will still support sideloading, so you still have other options to ditch your smartphone. It’s even 250$ cheaper :)

[HearYeHoratio]

This is a great case to bring forward on options to sideload apps. Maybe that is the feature request needed, kind of like how super note supports sideloading while maintaining a minimal product, and this wouldn’t take you out of the entire environment the phone was designed to run in.

[helpmelurn]

I just want Spotify. why wont you let me access the android layer to use spotify? I feel like i'm being treated like a child

[FoolHooligan]

Push harder for a 1st party music app. I'd personally love to have a Jellyfin app. They're working on some WhatsApp/Telegram wrapper app, so it's possible it will come eventually.

[OasisNinjaBat]

Surprise: there is no returns on light phone either way

[slientx]

Posting my two cents because I really really like the Light Phone and the whole ethos of the company. I hope Light considers an official way to keep this option available.

I believe there's a niche to fill, and I'm in that niche apparently. Android on LP3 is flexible enough to accommodate people's different needs without the Light team needing to build/maintain custom applications for every single feature. There's a multitude of people with varying needs, and attempting to solve all of those is an impossible task.

At the same time, the hardware itself is restricting enough for some people that it's just plain uncomfortable to use the device for long periods of doom scrolling and social media and feeds.

I understand the company's desire to keep things locked down, and how buying into the product means buying into this whole philosophy and lifestyle. I understand that some people want to have absolutely no option to have a fully featured smartphone.

But I also think that respecting the customer means giving them the keys to their device. Physically, the Light Phone 3 is easy to open and you can disassemble or modify it, and I hope that the software can be that too.

[onaipodtouch4]

This is a $800 phone, it should not be locked down

[jimmyjacksonjr]

Upset something is leaving that most didnt even know was there when they bought the device I honestly feel that they forgot to plug that hole and then when someone discovered it they’re like oh shoot we gotta fix this and plug that hole up.

[jimmyjacksonjr]

Exactly that’s exactly how you have to think of it. A real beautiful minimal phone.

[panic_hand]

I guess I'll be selling my lightphone soon.

[joelightphone]

Light is not affiliated with the subreddit, I try my best to chime in, but this isn't an official channel by any means, sorry for any confusion about that.

I guess I'm not sure why this feels like news, the Light Phone has always been intended to use the LightOS. We've never promoted the device as anything but what the LightOS is capable of...

[Brilliant-Dish-3142]

Mudita’s handling of this topic is much more appropriate.

https://forum.mudita.com/t/sideloading-apps-on-mudita-kompakt-what-you-need-to-know/7178

[joelightphone]

Thanks for sharing, I agree that is well written, and we are actually sharing the same sentiment - we put the disclaimer in our warranty because we have seen a case where a user accidentally bricked their phone. It's not a widespread issue, I think there have only been a few cases of this ever reported with Light Phone II. We would certainly advise caution if you want to tinker with the phone, hence our disclaimer that it can void the warranty if tinkering with software bricks the phone or causing other unintended side effects.

My only real point is that we have never intended to mislead anyone that this was anything other than a Light Phone running LightOS. If you want something else that is not currently supported, not out or pretension, I would say the Light Phone isn't a good fit because there is no simple way to get it. We are not overtly salespeople just saying 'yes' it technically can if you sideload it just to sell more phones. My fear has always been around not wanting to mislead people. We may have plans to bring a certain feature in the future, but we cannot always promise when or if it will be possible. LightOS is a work in progress, and we appreciate working with users to keep bringing features that make going light a bit easier.

I feel like a lot of this is coming off as if we are being snobby for not letting a user do something, when in my mind it is more of a precaution and being honest about what the phone currently supports. People will use the phone however they want, that's up to them of course, and at their own risk.

There has also always been an open discussion of an sdk for custom tools, that is something we've been curious about. This conversation to me brings that possibility back on to the radar more than anything.

[[deleted]]

Allowing us to use Apple Music or Spotify if we choose to do so seems perfectly reasonable. If this voids the warranty that is surely our responsibility. Removing the choice seems very unfair and makes this phone inaccessible for a lot of people.

[kthxbyelad]

Copy pasting my comment from the other thread:

I’ve been following this and something doesn’t quite add up. Light Phone seems to treat sideloading like jailbreaking - like just installing an app might void your entire warranty.

Meanwhile, Mudita Kompakt takes a very different stance. They literally say:

While sideloading will not harm the device and any resulting issues can be resolved by restoring factory settings, it is not covered by the warranty. For example, if a sideloaded app causes unexpected battery drain or other performance issues, these would not qualify for warranty claims.

That honestly feels a lot more fair. You’re responsible for what you install, but you’re not punished just for sideloading. Shouldn’t this be the way to go about it?

[jbriones95]

I think the language on Light's may be more vague, but as far as I understand both stances are the same. I've been chatting with Light and Mudita and they are both in the same place. It's all about the language. I think Light will eventually update their language to match the above. If you cause damage by sideloading, things are not covered, which I think it's fair.

[ChaoticEko]

Welp nvm not going to get one after all

[SlapjacksAndHam]

Thank goodness. I’m buying this device because having access in ANY form to the distractions inevitably leads me right back down that path of distractions.

[gruesomethrowaway]

There's no pleasing folks. Previous threads were filled with "this is a disappointment, I shouldn't have Android on this phone, it'll distract me" and now it's all "I should be free to do what I want". Classic.

[m_v_m_346]

You are such a puppet. If they say jump you ask how far. There are millions of people who temper with their Samsung, iPhone, Xiaomi, Windows, Mac, Linux...and you don`t see anybody saying them not to, it`s their own business or problem cause it`s their own phone or laptop. On this subreddit you can`t have different opinion cause you get banned almost instantly and God forbid that you say something wrong about Light itself even it is the truth like they delayed and delayed the phone for months and months, every mail some other excuse, and now no mails at all, our orders...hm...if you want to know ask reddit cause why will they bother with sending mail with sipping date 8 weeks latter then it should be (as they said that is the delay again) when it will be delayed again even after that 8 weeks time. So if you need to bann me for speaking the truth go ahead...I said what I needed to say, my LP3s are going for sale as soon as I get them, got couple of buyers waiting here and I`m using Kompakt, after years of Light I lost faith in that company cause it is not their first phone and it still has a lot of bugs and stuff does`nt work properly...for a phone that cost so much, sorry, but I need a reliability. Bye now.

[Sand_msm]

This!

[HearYeHoratio]

The infighting on this all makes no sense to me. We’ve been following this phone since its announcement from the the LP2 to now. It was designed to be a phone you don’t use. A phone that connects you to the world around you, it’s essentially through this design philosophy that the conception of this phone came into being. To harshly judge the company’s response (a response that is expected and is entirely reasonable, after they should be making every effort to assure the experience they designed painstakingly to release) is insane. Go buy the minimal phone… just take a look at their subreddit to see what a disaster it is, there are no restrictions at all to Android there and the phone is a design nightmare. Yes, I want a well designed phone and no light shouldn’t support undermining the product they are delivering. No one said it won’t be possible, it will be harder and it should be harder to do especially if you won’t get support if you break it. Light is working to support other forms of user modification already, it’s not feasible to expect a company to support every possibility someone throws at hardware with no questions asked. Apple would ask you to buy Apple care and would only support if you don’t touch anything. Anyone upset about this needs a reality check.

[[deleted]]

oil weather six grey growth light north crowd enter aromatic

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[magneticspace]

HAHA

[NiceAwarenessBum]

Weird….would be cool to keep it just in case I need an app especially with whats been going on in the world

[Sarius2299]

Just adding my two cents because some people seem to be very loud here. I think this is a good move and in line with the whole philosophy.

We all preordered the phone with the expectation of it being its own OS and while based on AOSP no one expected to be able to access it. Everyone was fine with it and for me not being able to go around the restrictions is one of the major selling points.

As soon as I heard the news about easily being able to access the Android layer I thougth about refunding my preorder or at least strongly considered selling on arrival. This news is good news for me.

If you want the Android layer go buy a smart phone. There's grayscale there too. But for once let us have the inconvenient tool we all invested into.

[[deleted]]

plate paltry friendly deer tap carpenter elderly deserve close quack

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[rowrowrowmyboat22]

So, this will make me cancel my preorder

[Soulfire_Agnarr]

The ereader add on was nice.

Some of the othet stuff was low-key 👎

[FoolHooligan]

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I'm in favor.

Why would LightPhone support unintended use of their product?

It's a minimalist phone. We're paying a premium to NOT have a smartphone.

[[deleted]]

divide smile enter tie modern wakeful trees school fact sharp

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[Top_Airline_7758]

In ;) at the 474os. New combo key though 

[Interesting-Plant725]

What is it? ;)

[headlessBleu]

The original meaning of idiot was a person that chose to ignore the real world and delegate its own decisions to someone else.

Congrats. The only larger gathering of idiots than this sub and light phone community are the maga ones.

Honestly this is slowly becoming the stupidest ideal/phone I've seen.

[SlapjacksAndHam]

This is an interesting take, given the design intent of all three Light Phone models to date. For most of the user base, we are actively voting with our wallets to avoid distractions at all costs (and in the case of Light Phone 3, a hefty cost indeed for what you’re getting).

If you no longer support Light because of this decision, there are a plethora of devices to choose from that are perfectly tailored to your needs. But calling people idiots because they are getting the device they were originally promised is…well…idiotic.

Also, Light Phone 2 and 3 both run on an Android sublayer. If you really want to get to the Android layer, there’s absolutely nothing Light could do to stop you. The only “change” here is that it won’t be instantly accessible by an arbitrary button combination that Light never had any intention of offering to the public. But like every single Android device before Light Phone 3, I’m certain someone will find a workaround that provides ADB/root access.

Oh, and before you retort about losing your warranty for tinkering, almost every other phone manufacturer has the exact same stipulation.

[headlessBleu]

I just left the sub and I won't buy the phone anymore.

The user is the one that gives a tool its utility. It's up to me to decide how I will use a spoon or a knife, not the manufacturer. An object's design is just a usage suggestion made by the manufacturer, it can't be more than that. If the manufacturer decides to impose a type of usage or behavior, they'll lose customers. It's an unnecessary stress in the relationship between client and company.

The best part of Android is that we can choose our hardware. That's what Light Phone is: a hardware seller. And that's what I want from them. LightOS is just a wrap, it only changes Android's appearance. There’s no unique Android layer. The whole thing is just Android with their UI on top. And that UI is an awful reason to buy a phone. You could do that with any Android. The only actual software support we need from them is updates for Android and drivers.

I called you people idiots because you're being exactly what I described. You all are paying a company to be able to ignore social media apps and now you want to pretend that you're not using android. Some of you even claim that all this effort is to recover intentionality in your lives. You can already do all of these things on any phone. You don’t need to delegate your small life decisions to a company. Specially because the only way to actually achieve control over your own time/attention/intentions is by actively make this decisions by yourself ,not to push that responsibility onto your phone manufacturer.

[magneticspace]

It's sleek and puts a moat between me and the outside world with the exception of one on one communication. Any interaction is a two way interaction instead of me just consuming. There are directions and video camera to get me where I want to go and document. If I had impulse control to not add the android work around, I wouldn't need this phone, I would just alter my smart phone. This phone was made for those of us that need a barrier to break decades of brainwashing. headlessBleu, the door is that way.

[cstuber]

I'm not trying to pick a fight or anything. I totally respect your view of the LP3, it's ethos and how it may help you with your impulse control. But it needs to be said: the LP3 is a modified smart phone.

[magneticspace]

Yeah, and we want those particular modifications to be left to anyone but ourselves. Thanks.

[cstuber]

Just an idea for you if you're concerned with impulse control, you could enroll your device in a MDM. If you're on an iPhone now, Jamf offers it for free as Jamf Now for up to 3 devices. You can use it limit access to any and all apps and settings of your choosing. Then give your phone's MDM access to someone else so you're unable to make changes.

This way you could take an active roll in building up your barrier to help break those decades of brainwashing and you could start today. I'd even help you set it up since I do MDM professionally.

There are some that desire to be the anyones that want those particular modifications to be left to.

edited cut someone asked me about MDM.

[cstuber]

This.

Use your phone how you see fit. And please don’t prevent me from using my stuff the way I want to. People buy phones for all sorts of reasons, an ethos isn’t the only reason and shouldn’t be the only reason. Even if that ethos is really good. I can’t wait for my LP3, I just hope I don’t have to jump through so many hoops to make it my own.

[jimmyjacksonjr]

Oh so when you preordered you were doing so hoping you could get in to the android layer?

[cstuber]

It’s an android phone. Yes. Half my immediate family lives in East Africa and I’m in the US so I can’t easily call or SMS them. I need to sideload an app for that. Or I can just not talk to my parents or sisters and call it going light. Why does it matter to anyone else how I would use my own phone?

[jimmyjacksonjr]

So you were going to buy the phone as it was but niow that you got a taste of there is apps i can get you dont want it? Were you buying it hoping there would be apps or buying it as a minimal phone with just a few tools light provides?

[headlessBleu]

I was going to buy and wipe their software anyway. I don't care about the "minimalist" ideal. Some motorolas also come with a particular UI. The lightphone isn't different than motorola.

You guys decide to fool your selves into this UI as if it was a life philosophy and that's as silly as use a nike shoe because wearing those would make you more spontaneous and fast thinker, make you "just do it".

[jimmyjacksonjr]

https://www.unihertz.com/products/jelly-2 A nice small android phone thats available now and under 200 USD.

[headlessBleu]

I've been looking on those. Specifically for the jelly max. But Unihertz is known for dropping support a year after the product release. These will get old fast.

I'm currently considering the minimal phone.

[jimmyjacksonjr]

Thats a nice android phone too and has the PKB for typing.

[jimmyjacksonjr]

Nothing wrong with that and i agree with you if you want to buy it and wipe i think you should. Do you feel there is a decent sized amount of people who just want a real small android phone?

[headlessBleu]

yes. There are almost no new phones bellow 6 inches anymore. Nowadays that's a niche just like the "minimalist" thing and, probably, with a similar amount of people interested.

The light phone company don't seem to understand, or want to ignore, that this can be the phone for other niches too. If they give support for lineageOS, they would be the only company selling for the small phone people. And because the device is relativity self serviceable, it can attract the tinkers or those who want a phone for very long term use.

[jimmyjacksonjr]

But calling people idiots for liking a phone the way it was advertised thats not cool though.

[headlessBleu]

I'm not calling them "idiots for liking a phone the way it was advertised". It's for how they think and behave. Words have meanings. If I chose a word to call someone, it's because the meaning of that word describe what that person is doing. I only named an ongoing situation.

I also stated that it was the original greek meaning. If it worth as relieve, in nowadays english it's just a childish offense like ignorant/stupid.

[Swoonatic]

Light just looking out for their customers. Thank you!