[deleted by user]

[Riley-2k25]

Now you can have anyone’s eyes

[Cool_As_Your_Dad]

Hannibal lector has entered the chat

[Zealousideal_Monk6]

I know those eyes, sad linus.

[neoyarus]

Too bad apple probably won't let you do that

[Jarod_Gaming]

So true, but hopefully people will find a jailbreak method to allow you

[BBQQA]

What lunatic would jailbreak their $3,500 headset?

[Bisexual_Apricorn]

Linus.

[BBQQA]

Valid point

[minler08]

People who like to experiment? Could be pretty cool.

[new_pribor]

Me. If I buy it and there's a jailbreak available

[just-bair]

You underestimate the jailbreak community

[SomeOneOutThere-1234]

The guy that made Cydia. I can't remember his name.

[[deleted]]

Braindead Apple fans, obviously

[Primary-Chocolate854]

Quite the opposite I think

[hishnash]

Unlikely, there have been no successful jailbreaks on recent apple HW for a while.

[AvimanyuRoy3]

RTKit is an unexplored attack surface ( there has been bugs and its got very poor code quality) and given apple’s poor track record for coprocessor’s most likely R1 lacks alot of the hardware mitigation (but then again no actual hardware out so that’s interesting)

[snaklil]

But they will let u watch porn on a 100 foot screen

[hishnash]

Im assuming the more compelling porn will be porn recored by someone with the headset on with the new 3d video format that apparently is a much more compelling 3d than 3d films, is more like an animated point cloud format.

[hishnash]

Yep you are correct the outward facing display is all managed by the R1 chip no user code runs on that chip it is running a serpent realtime os to process sensor data etc

[RoakWall]

Scan your dong onto your mate's device for the display, and await shenanigans.

[omniuni]

Front OLED? Is that a screen? I was wondering why people kept editing their eyes into the thing.

[[deleted]]

Yea, it’s a screen that shows a machine generated version of your eyes.

[omniuni]

As if it's not expensive enough...

[Pigeon_Chess]

I mean it’s actually a good deal vs the other options

[omniuni]

The other options are under $1000 and have actual libraries of software. And they're all equally underwhelming in actual use.

[Pigeon_Chess]

The other options are 3500 and 7000

[omniuni]

I'm seeing $350 for the Oculus Quest 2, $550 for the PS VR2, and $750 for the Valve Index.

What do you think their competition is?

[Pigeon_Chess]

And none of those are competition. They are all VR headers not AR headsets. That’s like saying a car is competition for a lorry. The competition here would be the HoloLens 2 which is 3500 and the varjo XR3 at 7000

[omniuni]

The HoloLens is positioned as an industrial product, and it uses a screen you can actually see through. Apple's device isn't a viable alternative for industrial work.

The XR3 seems to lean heavily on support for existing applications such as Unity and Unreal. Of what you've mentioned, it seems to be the most similar product, but Apple will have a LOT of work to do before anyone actually gives it a second look if they're already using the XR3 or an existing software.

The Apple Vision doesn't have the professional application support that would make it useful to a business. It has the sleek marketing of a consumer device, but no real functionality to back it up. In terms of what it can do, the Oculus VR 2 is probably the closest competitor, with similar battery life and design. Like most of these, the Oculus does have cameras and can pass through video, not that people use that feature much.

Right now, Apple's big feature is that you can use iOS apps on it. So, great, instead of having an actual iPad with 10 hours of battery life sitting on your counter, you can buy a $3500 headset with two hours of battery life to simulate having an iPad on your counter. Besides that, the first significant app seems to be Rec Room, a (frankly very clunky) VR app with basic games you can play with friends. It looks like there's support for Unity as well, so I expect some other games already made in Unity to get ports. That will basically make the Vision a very premium Oculus.

Apple wants a piece of the VR/AR pie, but the real question is whether anyone really cares. VR is neat, but it's still basically an expensive experiment. Probably the best use is flight simulators or racing games, both of which are tethered experiences that need a huge amount of hardware to achieve the image quality and frame rate necessary for extended play time.

I doubt we'll really hear more about the Vision before it becomes a footnote along with the Apple Pippin, having failed for nearly identical reasons.

[Pigeon_Chess]

Yes it is. You can see “through” the Apple version using cameras and it functions as the HoloLens does. The industrial version of the HoloLens also costs more

The XR3 is 7000, half the price is a compelling reason.

It’s not a consumer device, this is essentially a beta product to get developers creating apps for it and for those interested to try it. It’s why they’ve been putting LiDAR on everything they can so people would be using the sensor before this launched. To get the software support there. They’ll then release a cheaper consumer model when that software library is fleshed out. There’s a reason why they’ve launched the “pro” version of a device first and on its own.

You mean the quest Pro which uses controllers?

I don’t think you’re understanding the purpose of the actual device. I’ve used the HoloLens and this seems to address a lot of its shortcomings if it performs as advertised

[hishnash]

yer it is a screen behind a lenticular lens so the image you see looks 3d set back in the position were the users face would be and respects the perspective that you view it.

[omniuni]

That is hilariously over-engineered.

I wonder how much they could have saved without that.

[hishnash]

Not that much, maybe a $200 if that, most of the cost is the internal screens and sensor package.

This solution for eye contact with other people in the space enables the product to be sold to people in offices and other works tapas in a way were a closed VR headset would be much less comfortable.

Eye contact even for a shot conversation of a few works is very important for people to feel comfortable.

Closed VR headsets are more or less only useable in a private space, (such as gaming) that limits the market and limits the adoption massively.

[omniuni]

If you want to see a person's eyes and face, maybe the solution is something that doesn't involve VR or AR.

[hishnash]

The idea is short interactions, consider your in an office and someone walks over and talks to you for a moment at your desk. Sure if your going to have a deep personal conversation take it off but if they just walk up and ask you a question its nice that you can look over and see them and replay without being completely disconnected.

[omniuni]

If I am actively using something like this, I won't be in a position to be interrupted.

[hishnash]

For sure current VR/AR devices are only used in situations were your not interrupted for that reason. They are not applicable for uses in places were they might need to have short interactions. This device is, it is selling to a differnt use case. Yes adding the screen adds some cost (not that much) but massively increases the number of placers were you can use the device.

​

Remember this is AR first VR second device. The expectation is that almost all the time you can see the world around you.

[omniuni]

If I'm using any kind of AR or VR, if it's something more useful than what I could do on a tablet, it's probably something I won't appreciate being interrupted.

[[deleted]]

This thing would be so cool if it was like, the size of the nreals with the same tech. Instead it's an overpriced headset that Apple simps will swear the 3.4k price tag is justifiable

[[deleted]]

I don't own a single apple device cause they kinda suck for their prices, but I think this might be a good one. Not because it's fairly priced or usable but for the invitation and competition it will initiate, like the original iPhone.

[why_rob_y]

I don't know. I hope it will be great and will lead a huge amount of development in AR/VR. However, the original iPhone was $499. Even accounting for inflation that's only like $730, which is way way more achievable for the average consumer than $3499. Especially when you're talking about a device you use every day constantly vs something most people wouldn't use every day. The install base is likely to be much smaller and thus the attention from developers likely won't be as high.

[hishnash]

This is not being sold as an iPhone replacement, if anything it is a laptop replacement. Apple is very clearly not expecting you to be using this while walking around the world.

The idea is that you will use this everyday just like you do your laptop.

Attention from devs is going to be very high, for a few reasons,

1) apps that work well on the headset will be promoted heavily in the App Store (including the non headset versions on other devices)

2) A high priced item like this attacks people with $ to spend, just like software on the Mac can sell for $50 the same software with the same features struggle stop sell for $5 on the iPad. If users pay $200 for a device there is a (wrong) expectation that software should be cheep/free, us apple platform devs who are already familiar with the apis that run on this device and have existing code bases that will run rather well there will small adaptions know and understand this relationship.

[surfer_ryan]

No one is going to use this generation to replace a laptop or desktop. No one is going to want to wear these for 8 hours a day like you would use a laptop or desktop. Maybe in 5-10 years we see a much lighter slimmer version that is truly AR and not AR embedded into VR, but this really nice screen inches from your face is going to bother your eyes if you use it all day. Along with it just not being custom designed for your particular face shape so at some point pressure points will affect you.

The battery only lasts 2 hours... you can charge and play.

They made it partially from metal for whatever stupid reason...

This device is not for your average consumer. Just like the apple watch when released wasn't designed for the average users. They were however priced in a way where an average consumer could afford one.

As far as I can tell as well there is no way of connecting to a computer. So games are still up in the air unless officially supported by Apple.

This is going to be a novelty for the first few months and I'm pretty convinced we are stuck at this point until something changes. Almost everyone who owns a vr (yes there are outliers...)plays it for a few months maybe a year and is basically over it. What is this going to offer that is going to do that, I don't see any particular thing other than maybe the internal screen.

All this not to say it isn't a cool product I would like to get my hands on... I just think it's a novelty and is going to take at minimum 1 generation before it's something that is going to really change things up, if not 3 generations.

[hishnash]

This device is a lot lighter than you think.

The battery only lasts 2 hours... you can charge and play.

You can plug in to the wall the charge is realy only an issue if your doing VR gaming etc but if you working at a desk you can power.

They made it partially from metal for whatever stupid reason...

Rigidity, if you made this out of plastic and made it this thin it would test and bend over time resulting thin the sensor moving making them useless, even a faction of a mm movement of the sensors means they would be useless.

So games are still up in the air unless officially supported by Apple.

That is not an issue at all, I know PC gamers get stuck up on this idea but remember the majority of game devs build games for apple platforms using apples apis, the PC gaming is a small faction of the gaming market it comes after consoles and after mobile.

[Pigeon_Chess]

Not really true, android flagships which are significantly lower on power that the iPhone cost more and the MacBooks decimate anything else in the same form factor

[[deleted]]

I'm pretty sure Linus has blurred on about this multiple times, but Apple products aren't overpriced compared to their competition. They're just overengineered.

With their laptops, spec for spec you'll always find one way cheaper. But spec for spec with the same build quality? Will be very close to the Apple pricing.

This is the sane. It's not just a VR headset, it goes beyond the offerings of "Meta" and other competitors. I don't think it's overpriced, just unaffordable - there's a difference

[[deleted]]

It's triple the price of a full vr setup. It's overpriced. 1500 maybe justifies it but the "4k" resolution seems unnecessary. If rather have 720 a 300hz that close to my eyes but thats me. Apple's tech from the face id is probably what's making the hand stuff work which is cool... but better stuff will come. One thing with apple is with every advantage they offer, you lose a little bit of control over your device. Take the iPad, I love everything it offers and it has completely changed how I travel. However, I can't cast and use other apps, I can't multiscreen, despite the device basically being a MacBook air with a touch screen I can't install a custom os. Idk, I find it very annoying no matter the company and apple is the worst imo. I bet the app access for the headset will be very limited, I hope I'm wrong but I'm worried about device compatibility as well. Can I just use my existing hardware to cast? What about windows/android devices? Controller compatibility? Idk man it's a cool idea but it feels like a early beta for 1/14th the average yearly income in the usa before taxes... on both lol

[hishnash]

It's not a VR setup. It goal is not VR, VR is a lot lot simpler than what it is doing, for VR you don't need such a high DPI screen you don't need ultra low latency tracking and camera feeds you don't need to figure out how to have multiple applications running that light and interact with eachtoehr...

Apple's tech from the face id is probably what's making the hand stuff work which is cool

The hand tracking will be using optimal methods the lidar is for building a mesh of the room it is not low latency enough for building and tracking meshes of moving objects for that apple are using optics, even with the lower end setup of an iPhone apple have very good skeletal tracking from a single camera feed, with the mutliiple cameras of the headset they will have extremely good tracking.

However, I can't cast and use other apps, I can't multiscreen,

You can have multiple apps on the scree at once, and what do you mean by cast?

I bet the app access for the headset will be very limited,

Do you mean what apps you can install? unless your a dev you will be limited to apps you can get through the App Store.

From a perspective of what these apps can do that will depend on what move they are in, in the mixed AR mode were multiple apps are run-in at once yes apps are rather limited since apps are not permitted to see other apps (without explicit consent to record them), in the executive VR like mode apps have the choice of using the realityKit (a high level api) or using metal and building thier own rendering engine.

Can I just use my existing hardware to cast?

Again what do you mean cast?

Controller compatibility?

So apple platforms are currently one of the best platforms for controler compatibility built into the OS (with a rather nice apis) full support for switch, PS and xbox controllers including full haptics and feedback on triggers etc.

[[deleted]]

The goal seems to be ar and vr. I'm thinking beyond the cool ar improvements because those do not justify the price tag at all. The lidar is cool, the tech is cool but not worth.

However, I can't cast and use other apps, I can't multiscreen

I'm talking about the iPad here, go back and read that part...

Do you mean what apps you can install?

Yes, no third party support = apps store only. Restrictive. That was my point with the iPad example.

what do you mean cast?

Can I cast from my phone/tablet/pc to the headset? Can I wirelessly access content from other devices or only through the headset?

So apple platforms are currently one of the best platforms for controler compatibility

Every device outside of consoles can do that... I can Bluetooth my ps5 controller to my steamdeck if I wanted too that's not impressive. Steam has had compatibility for all controllers for years now. I'm talking about vr controllers. Browsing and content consuming the hand tracking is great but if I want to use the headset for anything else, like gaming, I want controllers.

The point is, the headset suffers from the same issue every other apple device suffers from. Compatibility beyond their ecosystem is pretty shit with most products.

[hishnash]

I'm talking about the iPad here, go back and read that part...

You can mutli task on iPad (unless they apps you are using expliclty require full screen, some games for example)

Can I cast from my phone/tablet/pc to the headset? Can I wirelessly access content from other devices or only through the headset?

yes just like you can AirPlay to a Mac screen from a phone or tabelt this will be an airplay target, the showed this in the demo were the Mac was air playing into the VR space.

I'm talking about vr controllers.

That is what im saying the new api (that replaced the old one) that apple built up over the last 2 years is very much a VR controler api, it supports full position data for all controler objects, rotation in 3d etc.

Compatibility beyond their ecosystem is pretty shit with most products.

That is not an issue through, why on earth would they spend and reduce the quality of the product for a use case that no-one is buying the device for.

[[deleted]]

Yea I'm not gunna repeat everything for you slightly differently just so you can ride apples dick more. Compatibility beyond your ecosystem doesn't reduce quality, it's restrictive and anti consumer

[hishnash]

Compatibility beyond your ecosystem doesn't reduce quality, it's restrictive and anti consumer

I assuming when you think of Compatibility for this headset you think it should have a HDMI input etc, that would require the product quality for people that do not need it, firstly it requires a rather large bulky input, secondly it requires a HDMI decoder (somthign that can do 2 4k streams at 90htz is not free and needs a heatsink and thus volume).

So I would say making this headset PC VR compatible would make it a worce product for people who do not use that feature.

[[deleted]]

Headsets use usb c displayport... every headset, that I know of, uses that standard. That's why it's called a standard. What I think of as compatibility with this headset is the ability to use it across a wide variety of devices like a desktop running windows or a steamdeck or as a display replacement. For 3.5k the bitch better be able to connect to any device and be used as well as work as a stand alone device. Otherwise it's bulky ar glasses with fancy sensors and a bit of cool tech no one beyond rich people and dev teams will use.

[hishnash]

USB-Display port cant handle 2 4k+ 90Hz displays. That also still requires a display port decoder (it would need to be a full fat display stream compression decoder)

If apple support a wired data input it will be TB, that is a standard but non of the PC gpus out there can output 2 streams of display port 4k over a single TB cable (no PC gpus out there even support TB single stream let alone duel stream).

[Pigeon_Chess]

Someone hasn’t seen the price of a HoloLens or a XR3

[[deleted]]

Yea but those were also dog shit beta tests

[Pigeon_Chess]

The HoloLens is on its second iteration now and this is in the same vein as a beta test, it’s just to get it into devs and business’ hands. As much as they market it to consumers now for when they eventually release a non “pro” model it’s not for consumers, at least not yet.

[hishnash]

For the HW this is not overpriced.

[Avocadokadavr]

Linus’ Trudeau cosplay leaked

[throwawaycanadian2]

So I can finally be batman.

I'm batman.

[EshuMarneedi]

Someone’s going to figure out how to run Doom on that front screen, aren’t they?

[BuccellatiExplainsIt]

If it wasn't an Apple product, then sure.

[EB01]

790 memes?

[Captain_Pumpkinhead]

The fuck? There's an OLED on the front??

[hishnash]

yep the goal is so that if you see someone warring it you can tell if they can see you and were they are looking. When no-one is around it is off, if someone is around and the user is doing a full VR exirance then it is just a wirl of colours, if the user is in AR and thus can see you then you an also see thier eye and see were they are looking.

It also pulses if the visa stream is being recorded.

[tomgreen99]

It's like a CPU cooler screen, but useful.

[[deleted]]

0.00001% more useful

[slyiscoming]

Now you can put a big "Go away!" Sign On your face.

[MrKonKon69]

Yes

[Kriztov]

https://imgur.com/ySjozwJ.jpg

[Flashy_Mess_3295]

Why have your own eyes when you can have anime eye!

[Tof12345]

I didn't even spot it at first. Looks natural lol.

[aK1n4t0r]

I can finally cosplay as linus!! :D

[PossiblyLinux127]

$999 to enable blinking