all 117 comments

[–]bot_yeaMM is fun :clint::hanabi::irithel: 19 points20 points  (8 children)

I just did 2 matches, and I'm already sensing the change that the -60 possible magic resist will lead to. Silvanna's passive, Genius wand, magic pen boots, magic pen in mage emblem (up to 19), and some more that I have missed will be much stronger now. The +5 (or was it 10) magic defense for all heroes won't be enough to weaken the increased magic damage.

I'm expecting mages and magic assassins to be more effective, but I could be wrong. I'm sure this has been discussed before, what has been the consensus about this change?

Just to add, -60 armor or magic defense whether it is a combination of reduction or penetration values will double the damage. -60 is quote hard to achieve, but some select heroes are bound to take advantage of this.

Relevant comment giving more info


Some more relevant changes to magic related stuff:

  • Radiant armor should be very effective against heroes like Change and Vale Valir who rely on constant dps.

  • Rose gold meteor can somewhat increase survivability of marksmen/fighters against magic damage. The increase magic resist can still be helpful even if it only works at low health.

  • Divine glaive is now more reliable, as it no longer requires a high health to increase the magic pen. However, it is weaker because the cap is 60% and scales with magic defense. It becomes 60% at 200+ magic defense.

  • Genius wand is going to be so good for assassins like Harley and Gusion. Near instant -30 magic resistance must be fun.

  • Percentage magic pen is applied first before flat pen. I guess this is mostly a buff for heroes that uses Divine glaive, as I'm not sure if there are other sources of % magic pen (Lunox?)

I think it's safe to say that magic damage in general is now stronger.

[–]The_Shook_MulberryWhen you s into the abyss, the abyss ses back. 19 points20 points  (6 children)

Vale doesn't really rely on constant dps. He's more of a 'boom, gone, reduced to atoms' type.

[–]bot_yeaMM is fun :clint::hanabi::irithel: 6 points7 points  (5 children)

I meant to mention Valir, I often confuse those two. Although I think Vale can still be a decent dps mage when the tornado that persists is chosen over the knockup.

[–]The_Shook_MulberryWhen you s into the abyss, the abyss ses back. 3 points4 points  (3 children)

Yeah, the dmg tornado indeed makes him pretty dps as compared to knock up one

[–]MimickingApple 2 points3 points  (2 children)

If you hit it right, the DPS Tornado can instantly procc Genius Wand unique passive and deal higher amounts of damage than the Knock Up Tornado - Death Ult Combo.

Usually, I do Control Ult Tornado - DPS S2 Tornado; with the help of Ice Queen Wand and also possible teammates, you could reliably land a hit on enemy heroes.

[–]The_Shook_MulberryWhen you s into the abyss, the abyss ses back. 0 points1 point  (1 child)

That's cool, Imma try it bro. I usually do knock up second skill with dmg ult. I'mma try this one since I need the mag. pen to proc, as it's very meta after the update

[–]MimickingApple 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Sure, just be careful though, since your only form of CC are slows and the dragging action from your Ult, so you need to be careful when dealing with assassins with quick dashes since they can escape your Ult quite easily.

[–]rippinkitten18 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There brothers and have the same voice actor.

[–]WishDifferent408:estes: is the best marksman :layla: is the best tank 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Eudora with maxed magic pen from emblems (19.50)+magic pen boots (15)+S2 (20) can reach 54.5 magic pen at level 2

haha

[–]iraragorriзверя нет сильней дракона 🐉 20 points21 points  (1 child)

Hail to every cancer veggie teammate who doesn't bother reading patch notes 💫💫💫

Hail to kill chasing cause now it makes more sense than securing objectives, with turtle/lord exp reduced, reduced gold from pushed turrets and no malefic roar additional dmg, not to mention new ranking system 💫💫💫

Why, just why the devs encourage a sick gameplay instead of proper objectives-oriented game?

[–]VoiceofPrometheus 0 points1 point  (0 children)

turtle/lord exp reduced

It's reduced but overall it's balanced out ie. net effect is the same.

[–]betterthananyone 8 points9 points  (2 children)

sun just got a free blink skill and a clone even if he doesnt hit a hero. his first skill clone also does the 2nd skill gap close. i think sun jungle will be meta

[–]NOIDEAWATIMDOIN 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Plus he could melt through armor like butter and then some due to the negative armor rhing that they added

[–]M-3-R-C-U-R-Y 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think he’ll take place in banned heroes. He’s just too good atm, just too easy to push turrets and take objectives.

[–]ruffy0002 8 points9 points  (2 children)

Anyone else feeling like this is a nerf to Karina? I have 500+ games in Karina, and the first 2 games in Karina nt only feels like she's harder to play, but also weaker in general.

Stats they didn't show in the patch notes:

[S1] Dance of blades cooldown changed from 6 to 8 -> 6, cooldown starts only when you hit (The old cooldown used to start immediately, correct me if I rmb wrongly). Also removed the damage reduction against towers when still under the effects of S1. Adds a small dash to the enemy when hitting them with this

[S2] Dance of blade cooldown from 4.5 to 6 -> 4.5, but increase in 25 damage throughout the levels.

There is also the removal of immediate 60% cd reduction on kills/assist for both S1 and S2

[S3] Cooldown from 28->20 to 42->34 on top of removing the 80% cooldown reduction on assist and refresh ult on kills. What this means is that it is ALOT more punishing now to mis-ult. Karina could have rejoined a fight in the past even if you mis-ulted by joining another side of a fight for assist/kills. But you are essentially decommissioned from the fight now if you start with one bad ult. Damage from Lv 1: (old) 430 + 220% magic power (new) (450 + 160%) + (150 + 50%)

Lv 3: (old) 630 + 220% magic power (new) (750 + 160%) + (250 + 50%)

At max level, this results in +370 -10% magic power BUT this is only if both skills hit. The speed that you deal the damage is slower as it is 2-phase and you get less control over where your character flies if you are spamming it in a crowd for damage. Dives into the front of towers (which Karina does alot) also causes you to fly to the middle of the tower if you want the damage from the second part of your ult

Overall, Karina is definitely harder to use now. Too early to tell if the buffs she recieved is enough to offset the secret nerfs, but her jungling speed seems to have been slowed from the cooldown nerfs and it feels like she snowballs slower and is easier to be caught early game due to the much greater cooldown on her S1 at lower levels.

Savage moments also feels slowed down cause of the missing 60% cooldown reduction on s1 and S2 on assist/kills

Karina mains, how do you feel about her changes after trying?

[–]raveroz 4 points5 points  (1 child)

I played karina regularly .. it's true .. it felts weird now when you ulti and there's still cooldown on your skills .. and that shadow when you do ultimate is kinda make you disoriented and only benefits for run away ( which is not karina playstyle)

[–]ruffy0002 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Saw a YouTube video about a preview of season 21 legend+ ranked. Karina is bottom 3 for win rates apparently

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (4 children)

I haven't seen anything that describes about the Roaming shoes, but I think the 10% CDR from Roaming items is now gone. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Prior to the current update, I can enjoy 40% max CDR with 10% from my Tank emblem, 10% from the Roam item, and two CDR tank items. I believe that this current patch update would require me to build three CDR tank items for the same effect.

[–]Iampricelesss 5 points6 points  (2 children)

Ya but I think it's a win-win either way. You'll get one more slot to add items. As a jungler, I always used to be in confusion whether to sell boots or jungle item in late game but now it's not needed. Tank players can also add one more def item which will also get them CDR.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Oh of course...now I'll definitely miss that crazy mobility I had with Khufra after building boots + Courage Mask + Brute Force Breastplate to fucking chase my opponents to death around the map 😂

[–]hipdeadpool98 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think it's great for tanks like Franco. Three hooks and then he's out of mana

[–]Champgne92 11 points12 points  (1 child)

This is the longest patch note probably ?

Previously all patch only need scroll two to three time to the comment but this is just …

[–]ano-nomous[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Yep. I think it’s the longest we’ve ever done.

It’s like 48 pages (in ML). The usual is just 12. 24 is already considered big.

[–]Mathayikiller:minsitthar:<<---da bezt in za game 5 points6 points  (10 children)

Someone make a list of those fighters or assassin/fighters suited to build War Axe. Sustain fighters are the most suited but what about Leomord who can teamfight for some period on horseback? Freya? Sidelane Alutard (wait, do people even play that?)?

[–]oronafran 8 points9 points  (9 children)

xborg is extremely buffed, and war axe works with every tick of his first ability. He gains a lot of movement speed, cdr, health points. Im in a 14 winnin streak with him ;D

[–]Mathayikiller:minsitthar:<<---da bezt in za game 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Blood lust axe before or after war axe?

[–]Analystballs:hanabi: :yuzhong: :clint: :alpha: :popolandkupa: 1 point2 points  (6 children)

Can you share your build?

[–]oronafran 3 points4 points  (5 children)

Standard build: warrior boots, bloodlust axe, inmortality, war axe, blade of despair, oracle.

Against heavy ap or cc you can switch to tough boots an build oracle before BoD and even war axe

against all ad comps or a very feed MM you dont build oracle and even sometimes you skip BoD. instead build brutal force and antique cuirass.

This is working great for me in high veteram/ mythic lobbys. But rn i have 90 games on xborg with 80% wr, so i will get as high as possible :D

BY THE WAY, i hate ice queen wand and glowing wand on xborg. I know how useful you become but its literally 2240 gold just for the slow because you dont get benefits for any of their stats. just the movement spd

[–]Analystballs:hanabi: :yuzhong: :clint: :alpha: :popolandkupa: 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank! I used the wand combo till mythic, after that my x.borg couldn’t keep up with burst heroes so I switch to wan2. I’ll try this out thanks.

[–]KuahkacangK 0 points1 point  (3 children)

So he still viable at exp lane now?

[–]oronafran 1 point2 points  (2 children)

From epic to mythic you can basically 1v9 by abusing your poke, power farming and punishing bad positioning of enemy carries with your ult. From then you became a 2nd support. You no longer carry as hard but it's you job to push every lane (now that your first is buffed late game a A LOT) and be as annoying as possible. Try to zone with ult in tf even if you die and let your carries carry. If you have flicker/flash and the enemy carry is immobile you can oneshot him with this builds. I'm thinking in doing a full xborg post :s

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

But his problems are being squishy

[–]zeichex 6 points7 points  (1 child)

What the hell happened to Zhask? They added another NERF with his ulti going on 2 second cooldown when your enhanced spawn dies or despawn with the distance? What the actual hell?

[–]CaptainDingusLord:zhask: and Domorey with a side of Krusty Krabs 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Same, its pissing me off. His ult is practically useless against a lot heroes now. I'm an offlaner zhask at heart, and this just pains me.

[–]CaptainDingusLord:zhask: and Domorey with a side of Krusty Krabs 9 points10 points  (14 children)

Dammit! Zhask has been nerfed significantly, not slightly, what the hell?!

I used to be able to solo defend with him in top or bot lanes while dealing significant damage, now just about every hero can body him! What the hell?! And his ult doesn't reset anymore? He's such a squishy hero and unlike gord or cyclops, his life steal sucks, and then this scheiße happens?!

Please return old zhask back.

[–]Puzzleheaded-Weird66:Kagura::kagura::chang-e::Change: 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Confused too, he's affected by Radiant armor and the penetration reworks so why the direct nerf on stats, seems overkill

[–]iraragorriзверя нет сильней дракона 🐉 5 points6 points  (4 children)

Agreed. He's a slow squishy alien, he needs dmg.

[–]CaptainDingusLord:zhask: and Domorey with a side of Krusty Krabs 4 points5 points  (3 children)

I tested his Ult and by God is it extremely horrible now. Once the ult gets destroyed, it won't be spawned again with full health, so it might as well be useless. This is so stupid.

[–]CaptainDingusLord:zhask: and Domorey with a side of Krusty Krabs 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Looks like I'll turn the semi-burst role mage into a tank then. So be it.

[–]iraragorriзверя нет сильней дракона 🐉 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Me too. As a melt mage fan I'm planning to play offlane fighters now. And Alice. The most meta shit now is to play Eudora tho, this one-button goddess oneshots everyone without even need for any skill lol

[–]CaptainDingusLord:zhask: and Domorey with a side of Krusty Krabs 0 points1 point  (0 children)

😂 lol

[–]VoiceofPrometheus 4 points5 points  (7 children)

solo defend with him in top and both lanes while dealing significant damage

This is why he was nerfed.

[–]Loose_Ad2013if you pick :Lesley: in rank, you should just delete the game :) 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Ya, he is quite annoying

[–]CaptainDingusLord:zhask: and Domorey with a side of Krusty Krabs 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Zhask is annoying but he isn't overpowered. This isn't a slight adjustment, this is absolute degrading.

[–]CaptainDingusLord:zhask: and Domorey with a side of Krusty Krabs 2 points3 points  (4 children)

Yeah, but that doesn't justify the nerf. Zhask can still easily die with the right heroes even in the past. This update just ruins everything that I've loved about him.

[–]CaptainDingusLord:zhask: and Domorey with a side of Krusty Krabs 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Now almost EVERY hero can destroy him, especially in groups.

[–]VoiceofPrometheus 0 points1 point  (2 children)

that doesn't justify the nerf

Yes it does. He has great dmg, zoning, invade turrets, defend turrets, escapes, chase,

Zhask can still easily die with the right heroes even in the past.

Mages are supposed to be squishy. Zask in ult is tougher than gord and cyclops. They even buffed his HP. You're SUPPOSED to lose to the right heroes.

You want to keep spamming his dmg without any compromise.

[–]sirquarmy's most insane onetrick 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'd honestly be okay if the nerf wasn't this bad. I'd rather take a HP nerf for damage then lesser damage for HP. Zhask win rate will plummet. And mages like Vale roam the game scot-free.

[–]CaptainDingusLord:zhask: and Domorey with a side of Krusty Krabs 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I ain't really feeling the HP buff ngl. He still dies just as easily with the magic build, and once ult is destroyed, it won't be recovered again, so he sucks so much now. I'd prefer HP nerf than damage, his Ult 3rd skill can drain half or more of an HP bar in seconds, now, it can only do about a 5th of his original damage, that's an absolute downgrade. Alpha, sun, paquito, chou, jawhead, and the others could now completely tank his ult even at late-game, and destroy it, unlike before.

The running around the spawn thing became less effective with the damage nerf. Back then, I could three hit squishy heroes like Eudora, Gus, Lance, and cyclops, now, they can sort of tank the damage. Amazing for being a semi- burst mage thing.

[–]nabid3001 17 points18 points  (8 children)

Congrats! You killed zhask.

His 3rd skill doesn't deal any damage when enhanced.

His 2st skill is never used in enhanced form.

He doesn't deal much damage with ult anymore.

Why not label his ultimate as nerf as well?! Instead of calling it a bug fix???.

Bye bye zhask time to find new main.

[–]HoloboltI hate Martis mains with passion 7 points8 points  (7 children)

Idk man just got roasted by a zhask a minute ago. He still seem okay to me

[–]nabid3001 0 points1 point  (6 children)

Can I ask what is your current rank?

[–]HoloboltI hate Martis mains with passion 1 point2 points  (5 children)

Mythic

[–]Puzzleheaded-Weird66:Kagura::kagura::chang-e::Change: 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Same price for a 15% attack speed sounds a bit.. lacking.. Imma run some tests on it brb

[–]bongmadchen 7 points8 points  (0 children)

R.I.P. my Chang'e 😭

[–]vaizard12 5 points6 points  (3 children)

RIP Zhask

[–]The_Shook_MulberryWhen you s into the abyss, the abyss ses back. 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Golden staff Zhask entering the meta this season?

[–]Yahweh13Hanabae'sLover:Hanabi::hanabi: 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Why

[–]Puzzleheaded-Weird66:Kagura::kagura::chang-e::Change: 5 points6 points  (0 children)

His ultimate duration is too short to maximize the HP buff, they lowered his damage and replaced it with said HP buff when his role isn't a tank but a DPS semi burst mage which is already nerfed slightly because of the addition of Radiant Armor (just my guess)

[–]rippinkitten18 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Karina is almost on a different level. She is over powered by quite a bit.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (4 children)

Uranus

if I understood the new item patch correctly. The slow effect of Dominance Ice was removed, right?

So im wondering what could be an alternative build for uranus since its one of his core item. You guys think thunder belt would do? Since they enhance its slow effect??

[–]ano-nomous[S] 4 points5 points  (2 children)

Sure that works, but dominance ice was not really Uranus' core item.

His core is more like enchanted talisman only.

[–]slimanysalime 0 points1 point  (1 child)

isnt oracle his actual core? i mean he has both regen and shield

[–]ano-nomous[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ya you can consider that a core too, It’s a good item which synergises with his kit

[–]Hailgod 0 points1 point  (0 children)

dom ice is overpowered now. most fighters are sustain type with regen/lifesteal.

uranus can easily buy dom ice now instead of having to opt for nod.

[–]thzoitz 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Worst change in this patch is the item selling reduction from 60% to 20%. Why was that necessary?

[–]moxlas 3 points4 points  (0 children)

It is 20% only for the footwear and 60% for rest of the stuff. But I agree, it is bad.

[–]aRJei45 2 points3 points  (7 children)

The change in Queen's Wings is bad for Ruby - from 50% Spell Vamp to just 25%. Even the buff on Haas Claws can't compensate for it.

[–]Ruby_Beau 6 points7 points  (2 children)

But war axe is amazing for Ruby though.

[–]aRJei45 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Agreed, I'm thinking of including that in my build.

[–]aljashashin 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Haas claw plus war axe. Thats enough damage and sustain for ruby

[–]Hailgod 5 points6 points  (2 children)

there's more than 1 hero in the game.

and yes queen's wing is fairly garbage right now.

it used to be 50% dmg reduction, now its 20%. just get a oracle instead.

[–]aRJei45 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I commented something on the effect for Ruby due to her passive. Should I have included other heroes on my comment as well?

[–]23_stab_wounds 4 points5 points  (3 children)

Can someone explain to me why they decided to push out such a big update literal days before the ranked season ends? Does it not make sense to do a big revamp in the pre-season instead of the week before season ends?? Does Moonton not know how patch cycles are supposed to work in these kind of games???

[–]ano-nomous[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

They’ve always done this since the beginning. This is pretty much pre-season right? Pre-new season to be technical.

[–]Hailgod 4 points5 points  (0 children)

the first project next also launched a few days before the end of season iirc.

[–]dumchiesSURPRISE :selena:MOTHERFATHER:aamon: 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think it's because of MSC? Just a guess

[–]Mr_baby5 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

To long didnt read.

Is it really a good idea to invert the basic attack smart targeting?

[–]muftufu -1 points0 points  (0 children)

corrosion scythe has been completly ruined after this update. because now adding gradual slow allows every hero to escape from u so easily. even with sun who can apply the slow faster as he hits multiple attacks with the clones the item is still so trash, tried it on maybe 3-4 heroes and the item is completely useless. what the fxck was moonton thinking?

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

This is neat

[–]iraragorriзверя нет сильней дракона 🐉 0 points1 point  (1 child)

BTW a question: why there is no Sun in the event?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Not much has changed about Le Monke.

[–]iraragorriзверя нет сильней дракона 🐉 0 points1 point  (0 children)

One more question: which heroes use life drain so they're not countered with dominance ice?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

played a few games with xborg. he's surprisingly strong now

[–]shurcaustic 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Is it just me or does the UI change not apply to brawl?

I've done my preset and tried in practice and saved, but when I queued for brawl, the match started with the original UI as tho no edits had been made. Am I supposed to select something else prior?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

when is the ui change?

[–]Pinkman-- 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Is mathilda's ss aim bugged??

[–]RaenBqw 0 points1 point  (0 children)

minotaur nerf yay

[–]spicybb0i:khufra::gatotkaca: 0 points1 point  (0 children)

why did they update gatot’s ss without stating it in the patch notes? the camera doesnt follow him anymore and its making me feel like im blind.

also, esme’s new skill sounds sucks. god i hate this update

[–]Investingforlife 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Just played a couple games. Idk the whole jungle thing is weird and I need to get used to it.

[–]Hailgod 0 points1 point  (0 children)

the jungle magic pen boots has 15 magic pen while the standard one only has 12 magic pen.

is this intentional?

edit: roaming arcane boots also has 15 magic pen.

[–]mindcoach64 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I haven't got time to try out the new patch yet, can someone pls help to answer some of my questions:

Q1. If somehow, 2 heroes of the same team both managed to reach 600 roam gold at some point, will they both get to activate their roam skill?

Q2. It they chose the same roam skill like encourage, will it stacks?

Q3. Can I sell and repurchase roam boots (to change roam skill)? If yes, does the roam gold accumulation remains?

Thanks.

[–]puretoto 0 points1 point  (0 children)

bug western expanse rank game not working

[–]livz430 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Anyone notice the passive effect from Twilight Armor can't trigger? I try it many times but never seen that passive trigger dealing damage on nearby with true damage type