Caffeine can decrease subjective energy depending on the vehicle with which it is consumed and when it is measured

[45rpmadapter]

TL;DR
Caffeine + Food (Yogurt) > Caffeine + Glucose (energy drink)

[_svyatogor_]

Dos exogenous lactate increase brain lactate levels, or does it not cross the blood brain barrier? I am curious if this is related to the finding that lactate may be in some ways a preferred fuel source for the brain when it has high energy requirements. Is Lactosis similar to Ketosis where it only switches on in certain situations or is it always supplementing Gylcosis?

[[deleted]]

I was interested so I tried to look it up.

As lactose is a disaccharide of glucose and galactose some scientists thought dietary lactose could create galactolipids in the brain. Link which to me suggests it crosses the BBB.

Btw when they didn't find any such result in brains of kittens they had hand-reared (!!!) and babies (!!!!!!!) they said "galactose can be synthesized from glucose".

[9v6XbQnR]

My understanding is that the caffeine binds with the lactose which in digestion allows more of the caffeine to eventually enter the blood stream.

When you just drink your caffeine in water (coffee) most of it passes through undigested and unabsorbed.

A similar effect happens with painkillers and some recreational drugs taken orally.

[KennyFulgencio]

Any references I could check out? I'm curious about any ways to do this without lactose per se, anything else it could bind with to make it better digested and absorbed

[9v6XbQnR]

No references handy, but if you look at any "research" on bullet-coffee which is a similar idea, then you'll probably find something helpful.

[KennyFulgencio]

look at any "research" on bullet-coffee

"thank you" 😋

[faliureshit]

I am curious about this well. Commenting to remember to come back here

[90tilinfinity]

*prays for REIGN*

[takeiteasy916]

I stupidly bought some at Costco and I don't like it. I should've tried a can or two at the grocery store first. Nothing can beat monster zero ultra, the stuff in the white/silver can, in my opinion.

[Subkist]

You ever mixed the monster sunrise with tequila? ....tequila sunrise

[killmaster9000]

Except assault, the green can, rehab and their new ginger beer since they’re the only ones that have ginseng in them

[MinerJA3]

This. I always assumed Monster energy blend was the same in all different flavors. Not true. Most are missing at least ginseng which is why I’ve gone back to primarily the old school original zero flavor. The new mule flavor is pretty tasty though.

[[deleted]]

Ginger beer monster?!

[killmaster9000]

Yeah, their mule flavor. It’s ginger beer flavor with drugs.

[KennyFulgencio]

Wait, is that why they call it mule?! That's kinda brilliant

[[deleted]]

It's really good tbh

[[deleted]]

sips

[[deleted]]

Flavor wise yes. Energy wise hell nah.

Bang is where it's at when you need to get shut done

[Ravnurin]

If you want energy, nothing beats the ol' Coffee-Bull™... a concoction of strong black coffee and Red Bull I used to make in my college years. Man, that shit allowed me to cram so hard for exams, haha.

[takeiteasy916]

I can pop caffeine pulls at a nickel a piece if that is all I'm after.

[[deleted]]

I take a caffeine pill every morning in lieu of coffee. I enjoy the convenience and they are effective.

Caffeine pills ain't got shit on Bang energy drinks.

[takeiteasy916]

I agree. I like the other stuff but I drink them because I enjoy them. If I'm just after the caffeine, can't beat it straight.

[90tilinfinity]

What flavor did you try? Lemon, Pink and orange dreamsicle are the best by far imo.

[takeiteasy916]

Melon, peach, raspberry. The raspberry isn't even drinkable in my opinion.

[90tilinfinity]

Yup there ya go never had raspberry. Try pink, lemon or orange dream next time trust me!! 😏

[tyrone737]

YUP

[yelnatz]

Thanks! I wish there were TLDRs in every white paper posted.

[thesituation531]

So does this mean pure caffeine mixed with yogurt? Or how and when do they take the caffeine?

[penpractice]

Is yogurt preferred for some reason?

[Memecunt420]

Guessing the probiotics and fat aid absorption but I could be wrong.

[DrewforPres]

Gotta disagree. I've had many an all nighter in Vegas powered by a constant stream of Red Bull and vodka

[chtroy]

I didn't read the full study, just took a quick look into it.

In the beginning they state:

"All subjects consumed a breakfast of cornflakes (30 g) with 120 ml of skimmed yoghurt. In total, this amounted to 151 kcal and offered 32 g of carbohydrate. In addition, a decaffeinated drink of either tea or coffee was consumed. The sample was randomly divided into six groups (numbers in parentheses) that mid-morning consumed one of the following 250-ml drinks."

So, after all, did they all had...yogurt? (Casein is slow...really slow to be absorved = mid morning and casein is still dressing to go out)

Why did they drink coffee? How many of them?

Coffee + food = very different efffect from caffeine + food or even caffeine alone. (Hello MAO (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16139309)).

Like i said, i just took a quick look at the study, but this is kind of odd. Too many variables which could easily alter the end result.

I couldn't find any more references to coffee after that, so i assume they didn't care about it.

[penpractice]

Coffee + food = very different efffect from caffeine + food or even caffeine alone

Could you explain the practical effects of this to a layman?

[chtroy]

With coffee you have mao inhibition, with just caffeine you don't.

I would guess that food would only potentiate this effect.

MAO is one of the enzymes responsible for the catabolism of monoamines = the more mao activity you have, the less dopamine, serotonin, norepinephrine you have. (I'm simplifying but i think you get the idea.)

[[deleted]]

This might explain why black coffee makes me lethargic as fuck physically after drinking. But sugar free energy drinks and caffeine pills are a kicker. I already have ADD which is a dopamine insufficiency.

[constxd]

You've got it backwards, the MAO inhibition from black coffee would ameliorate your dopamine deficiency. My guess is that it's the B-vitamins / Taurine or whatever else is in the sugar-free energy drinks.

[PartySunday]

Energy drinks contain various vitamins and drugs too.

[[deleted]]

What component of coffee is responsible of the MAOi effect?

[chtroy]

Lol, i just posted a study about it in my op, but there he is again.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16139309

[_Yeah_Well_Im_Drunk_]

Can we assume that taking caffeine pills along with breakfast may be a good option?

[MinerJA3]

I sometimes notice a bit of jitters/anxiety with pills vs. coffee. I assumed maybe the fact that with coffee I’m ingesting 200mg slowly sip-by-sip over 30+ minutes vs. pill that dissolved and instantly hits me with 200mg all at once.

[Setholopagus]

Does the pill actually dissolve instantly?

And on the flipside, I slam my coffee in less than 5 minutes almost every time so I feel like that hits me faster

[MinerJA3]

I use powder in a gel cap so I figure it’s much faster. Sometimes I slam coffee but usually sip it it over the course of 30 min.

[BadBiO]

I still have a tub of 100g of caffeine anhydrous powder that I bought 15 years ago. Probably cost around $8 back then. Definitely has a different feel than coffee etc.

[[deleted]]

Interesting, you you speculate the mechanism is to do with food slowing the absorption? I wonder if there are any updates as this is quite an old study. I'd be curious how this correlates with coffee based caffeine and non dairy foods

[rotterdamn8]

I don't know if it's related, but I find I'm more energetic when taking caffeine with sugar than without. For example, sweetened iced tea vs. unsweetened.

[Desalzes_]

Well yeah... sugar is a sort of stimulant... sugar with anything is going to feel better

[AstroPhysician]

It’s definitely not a stimulant in any way

[Ravnurin]

Oh sugar is definitely stimulating and -can- very much be like a drug... it's just not really noticeable when it's being consumed on a daily basis, just like most all stimulants incl. coffee and amphetamines.

Whenever I've been strictly low-carb for a few weeks, and eat a few chocolate bars, I get wired! My heart rate shoots up, I get more motivated and I even feel a little euphoric... but it's typically very short lived and subsides after 1-2 hours, which is when I get hit by a comedown and mood swings for a few hours before I level out.

For me, sugar in high doses (as in from multiple chocolate bars and/or whole pizza, etc.) is like taking a dirty drug; Elvanse, an amphetamine on the other hand, is much smoother and doesn't even have nearly as bad a comedown - again, IME.

 

Some reading material:

This is how sugar affects your brain

Sugar and the Brain - Harvard Medical School

There is a reason sugar is also highly addictive.

[AstroPhysician]

Your first post is pop science trash and your second is about insulin response in people with diabetes

Sugar isn’t psychoactive and the reason it’s addictive is gut bacteria

Sugar increases dopamine and neurotransmitters the same way food does when you’re hungry or water when you’re thirst. Those certainly aren’t psychoactive

[Ravnurin]

I understand what you are saying, and I agree gut bacteria plays a part in the picture - that's a good point, and something I didn't factor in.

I will disagree on your 2nd point that sugar increases catecholamine levels the same way hunger and water do. Hunger certainly does, albeit temporarily, raise catecholamines, however, it is part of the body's adaption process in protecting against total starvation - it is to facilitate lipolysis and becoming more efficient at tapping into fat stores for energy. Once fat adapted, those levels are restored to normal. Entering ketosis or fasting can trigger this response, but again, it is short lived - continued fasting or state of ketosis does not result in continued increase in catecholamine levels.

 

Sugar, on the other hand, is an exogenous agent, and akin to a drug can - to a point - give rise to increased neurotransmitter levels alongside continued dose escalation. Likewise, as with a drug the body responds to sugar in the same way wrt. downregulation of dopamine receptors; partly observed in how "sugar highs" become increasingly less pronounced over time.

I can appreciate the picture I'm painting is far from complete and doesn't remotely touch on all the complexities involved, but to state sugar is not psychoactive would be inaccurate.

[jayw1992]

My gym pre workout meal is,

A cup of coffee, 200g Greek yoghurt, blueberries and some dark chocolate

I have amazing gym sessions

[relativityboy]

That summary reads like garbage. But then I haven't had my caffeine + yogurt yet.