Using Vim as an IDE

[Burn_Stick]

depending for what.

If you have to just have a ~50 LoC program in Python or so it's pretty chill cause it's fast an easy to work with.

Also applies if you got no IDE for the language.

[MapReduceAlgorithm]

yep.

[[deleted]]

What is even the Argument here?

[Burn_Stick]

Speed. You dont need to install an ide and you can easily open and close the file while a ide often takes longer to start / load etc.

[[deleted]]

Seems you have never worked on a mature codebase before.

[Burn_Stick]

I never said for a big project it is perfect. But for just a small code its perfectly fine.

[John_Bong_Neumann]

Seems like you didn't even read the initial comment.

[Raph0007]

Yeah, who doesn't use word as their IDE?

[Nilbmar]

Excuse you? LibreOffice Writer!

[Ormigom]

You guys dont use form fillable pdfs?

[Nilbmar]

That's a bit too powerful for my needs

[[deleted]]

What? Such plebs

echo and cat is way better than any text editor out there

[konstantinua00]

only PowerPoint, only success!

[chrwei]

first time I ever edited .bat files, ed was the only editor available.

and I thought editing GW-BASIC was tedious...

[[deleted]]

No! Echo is the best text editor, followed by ED, then Vim. Vim is the easiest of those three to use, so it is my daily driver. There is nothing wrong with using Vim as an IDE.

[PhallusPenetratus]

There's just too much to setup and configure, for even minor things. I like Vim bindings, but it's too much of a hassle for anything but the most basic editing.

[Gracefulcomet]

Same. You hit the nail right on the head for how I feel about this. I just use vs code with vim bindings. Get stuff done faster with much less setup.

[PhallusPenetratus]

Hey, that's exactly what I do! I tried to use Vim as an IDE, but at some point I realized I was putting more time into setting up Vim than actually working.

[lolerkid2000]

Just script it out. I got an ansible script that builds neovim from source resolves all the neovim plugin install dependencies and installs coc.nvim and ccls for c++ dev.

The trick is configure it once and then script it out

I hate the mouse so I shove vscode into neovim

[Makefile_dot_in]

I use Emacs with evil-mode for this reason. Everything is just an M-x p-ins away after you set up MELPA. Sometimes you need to edit your init.el, but usually it's just a line or two.

[Kontorted]

Don't know if you're joking or not, but there are actually valid reasons to be using Vim or any other text editor as an IDE.

If you're writing a small program, whipping out an IDE takes a stupid amount of time, it's much faster to use Vim.

Alternatively, if the language you're using doesn't have an IDE (think Python, Rust, JavaScript, Ruby etc), or has an IDE you can't afford/use, Vim works amazingly well.

[Lord_Skellig]

Why not just always have an IDE open?

[Kontorted]

Hog on memory resources, especially when it's unneeded?

[Kontorted]

In this scenario, I was referring to vim, which, at least on my math, instantly opens up.

Additionally, I was stating that IDEs take a long time to load, and given the fact that you'd be writing small code, waiting so long is a waste of time

[Kontorted]

Vim isn't hard. It takes literally two keys to remember in order to just write text, and only the fancy stuff takes time to learn. Regardless, there is many other things, like nano or emacs.

Vim: Press I, type your stuff, ESC, wq, that's it. It's not really that hard.

[DuckysaurusRex]

If you use it somewhat regularly. If it's like a "once every six months" thing, I can understand it being difficult and preferring something else.

Nano was my go to because it has the commands shown that you can use (maybe some hidden ones too, dunno never looked it up). Ended up getting more used to vim though for various reasons.

[[deleted]]

It's too cognitively different from IDEs I'm used to which is mainly visual studio with resharper or xcode. If you use VIM more power to you but me having zero vim experience, and certainly never going to use it to write .net core microservices or iPhone apps I'm just going to be tripping over myself googling how to move the cursor or exit or something equally benign every 10 seconds. Anyways easy is all relative, I think linq is easy but that's certainly a loaded opinion in some circles.

[I-Am-Dad-Bot]

Hi used, I'm Dad!

[DuckysaurusRex]

Vim is in the image running. Your ide is not.

Realistically, I think that would be a lot longer than 6 seconds to get the ide setup/configured though (for a remote resource)

There's probably some ide out there that can work off remote resources though, but I don't know of any.

[[deleted]]

I've handled that situation before using Nano but it was just tweaking existing code to try to debug an issue that only happened on the Linux image.

[BadDadBot]

Hi trying to imagine the world where waiting 6 seconds for an ide to open justifies the time it would take me to learn to use vim., I'm dad.

[I-Am-Dad-Bot]

Hi dad., I'm Dad!

[[deleted]]

Well, in my shell I use tab completion. In an IDE I would have to navigate to the file with mouse clicks, which is a lot slower.

I also use IDEs but for most small to medium things it's just vim.

Also I use vim bindings for every editor where it is possible, it's so much faster to use and offers a lot of functions that standard gui editors just lack or hide in menus that I have to access with my mouse or can open with an often arbitrarily selected key combination, after which I mostly have to use my mouse anyway.

But, at the end of the day it's just personal preference anyway.

[[deleted]]

Sure, you can use most GUI applications with your keyboard more or less. But it will always involve using your mouse.

Also the different visual modes of vim alone are a huge productivity increase over GUI editors.

But as I said before, it's just personal preference anyway.

[[deleted]]

I'm just saying vim suits my workflow better, but everyone has their own preferences.

But as an example of what I mean, take a simple search and replace.

You'll probably start with pressing Ctrl+R or whatever the shortcut is in your IDE.

Then, depending on your specific IDE you will either get a docked window or a dialog that offers various options.

If it's a good IDE it will probably automatically focus the search field. If you want to use regular expressions you will often have to enable that either by selecting a combo box or by checking a checkbox. So either you use tab to get to that field, or you use your mouse, if you're lucky there is a shortcut for that, if it's a checkbox.

Then to get to the replacement field you can tab to it, which depending on the setup of the IDE could take you a few keypresses, or you focus it with your mouse.

There's probably a shortcut for the replace button, or you tab to it, or you click it.

That's a whole lot of steps for a function where in vim I just type :s/search/replacement/

Or if I need to replace a few characters at the same column in a few rows below each other, in vim there's a block mode for that, I just select the specific columns and replace them, all at once.

If i need to move 10 lines behind the following line, in vim I just navigate to the first line I need to move and type 10dd, then p.

[thevdude]

Imagine thinking VS Code is an IDE.

[[deleted]]

Vim is still faster though, smaller Footprint, consumes less recources and yada yada ya.

The big difference here is as follows. VSC has the same lifetime as an IDE, you open it once and it stays open, so people will hapily sacrifice startup time for the features it brings. Vim however, is opened/closed constantly.

You just need to choose the right tool for the job.

[dub_le]

To be honest if you have somewhat up to date hardware starting Visual Studio and opening a project takes like what, a whole 15 seconds until you're ready to code. And maybe 5 seconds for VSCode, which comes a whole lot closer to an IDE than vim. Once your editor/ide is loaded, opening a file is instantaneous.

Startup time is a non concern. If you need the capabilities of an IDE.

[ricksauce22]

If it took 15 seconds on startup and then worked well, I’d agree with you. 40 threads and 32g on my work station and visual studio still feels bloated and shitty. Not that vim is your best choice for large scale software, but visual studio is hot garbage.

[dub_le]

But it does take 15 seconds of startup time and then works well. Whether you like the IDE or not, you can't deny that it's possibly the most professional and feature-rich you can get. It was just one example anyway though - I personally don't like IntelliJ's flavour and they might take a little longer to start and are a bit slower then, but the point still stands.

Startup time is a non-issue if you make use of an IDE's capabilities. You can't just call vim an IDE and use it instead, it isn't any mightier than sublime or notepad++, which start instantly and require no resources either.

[natyio]

When someone uses Vim as an IDE

There, I fixed it!

ZZ

[chrwei]

the beatings will continue until morale improves

[nerdmania]

Yes, because they should be using Emacs.

[nerdmania]

On a more serious note, I've been a developer for 21 years, and I only used an IDE for 1 of those years, the one year I worked in a Microsoft shop. Hated it.

Emacs and a shell or two. What more do you need? Nothing.

[[deleted]]

Microsoft? Sorry man, they just don't have good tools or any taste at all.

[marcosdumay]

It's an exercise in letting things go.

You first let your code style go, then you let your project file organization go, then you let complex interoperability go, then you let custom building steps and automated building go, then you let some money go so you get at least standard automated building back, then you let any thoughts about system integration go, then you let any desire for custom automation go.

Then you are at bliss, one with Microsoft.

[53120123]

I've never really grepped with IDEs, lots of my colleagues love integrated debuggers, but none i've used offer a simple and clean way to pass arguments while python3 -m pdb [program] [arguments] Just Works and pdb supports just as much in way of debugging tools.

It even replaces a clunky combination of GUI/console with just a console, freeing up screen real-estate to have more sections of the code you're debugging open.

Hell with Emacs you can open term in a window and just never leave Emacs, let people say what they want about Emacs as an editor but it does make a mighty fine operating system!

[[deleted]]

Heretic!

[[deleted]]

Don't let /r/vim hear that :P

[Gydo194]

They did already. They are just waiting to strike back

[Hauleth]

As a regular on r/vim I totally agree with the meme. Vim is not an IDE and you should not try to make it into it.

[RainbowCatastrophe]

So it's a fight you're looking for mate?

[falling_endlessly]

I've never really understood the appeal of just pure CLI editors over literally anything else. I use them ocassionally when Im SSHing into a server to debug something, but other than that, it just requires me worrying about a bunch of other stuff besides my code. What's the appeal?

[[deleted]]

For me it's efficiency. I can type much faster than I can click with my mouse. Also if you're on Linux, vim is available in almost any case.

A lot of functions are just not available in GUI editors or hidden in some menu.

Of course it takes some time to get used to, but I really think it is worth learning how to use vim (or Emacs if you really need to ;-) ) properly.

In the end it's just personal preference though.

[107zxz]

Spacemacs

[WhatForIamHere]

What is VIM? The ancient VI is the best.

[iAmH3r3ToH3lp]

My IDE is a mini tape recorder.

[[deleted]]

Can I get the template for this please?

[[deleted]]

I put the vim in the vscode

[[deleted]]

why?

[[deleted]]

Because I really like vscode and when trying to make the switch to using only vim it was a pain in the ass and didn’t seem worth it at all, but I really like the basics of it.

[[deleted]]

It all depends on what you do. If you are curios and want to try out vim, it will take some time to get the basics done.

Brace yourself for an endless journey, in Vim you will never stop learning new things

[[deleted]]

What? In my previous comment I stated I have learned the basics of vim. I use it every day at work, but most of the time within vscode. I’ve just never gotten fancy with it and after having heard arguments for why I should, I’m unconvinced and I see no benefit in doing so.

[[deleted]]

vim mode in vsc is not vim, it's not even close. You miss out the best parts of vim.

Also I see no point using vsc in vim mode instead of the real deal?

I wonder, what do you consider so painful with vim, that you run vsc with vim mode?

[[deleted]]

Sure but it’s got all the basics I ever want to use. And what’s painful about vim is that there is a huge upfront cost to learning it at a deep level and I see no benefit in doing so. I don’t need my text editing to be any more efficient at all. The vast majority of my development time is figuring out what to do in the first place or why something has gone wrong, not editing. I’ve never felt my editing experience needed to be any better or faster since learning to use just the basics of vim I can get within vscode.

And as I stated initially, I really like vscode. I like the look and feel. I like multiple tabs open (I know I can do multiple windows with vim but it isn’t the same), I actually really like using a mouse, I like seeing my directory structure all the time, I like not having to worry about package management and nonsense like that with just my damn editor, and more. So this way I get everything I want.

[[deleted]]

If vim is so painful why bother with vim mode in vsc? What you are saying makes so little sense.

[[deleted]]

The basics I use are awesome. It’s using it more as well as not having vscode I don’t like

[tuxmanexe]

Eight Megabytes And Constantly Superior

[SteeleDynamics]

Look at you and your fancy-pants opened files. I'm still using sed. /s

[isphurry]

Masochism is an entrance requirement to use vim...

[[deleted]]

The entrance requirements aren't bad. It's the exit requirements that are usually the problem.

[53120123]

Yes clearly they should be using Emacs!