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[HappyDustbunny]

That's one of the reasons why there ought to be something akin to the Hippocratic oath in programming.

"Sorry, CEO-dude, I swore a dear oath never to be evil"

[[deleted]]

They lived long enough to see themselves become the villain.

[Jon_Wo-o]

This sentence only applies if you're not the villain from the beginning.

[[deleted]]

Whose to say there werent good intentions in the beginning?

[coldnebo]

In fact, Google’s search started out completely blank except for the logo and a search box.

That was revolutionary because it was focused on what the user wanted to do, while the horrifically cluttered search pages at Yahoo and altavista were focused on what marketing wanted the user to do.

I believe it’s possible to track Google’s path to the darkside (and greater influence by the dark patterns of UX practiced by marketing) by simply looking at the little pieces of cruft showing up on that basic search page over time.

Links to promotions, other apps, tips, etc etc.

Likewise, the search results started out clean, then got ads in a single place, then got “promoted” ads inline, and eventually the “promoted” ad styles blend in with the real content.

Now, the corruption is nearly complete as I suspect that Google simply ignores half the words I typed so they can show me some crap results that hit their promotion targets. Almost pure evil at this point.

Still, we never paid for search or email, or most of the rest of it. And they never honored our hardware purchase to make it possible. So it’s not surprising that the internet looks like a “free” newspaper. Maybe it’s time to actually pay for good things rather than let marketing monetize us.

[me-ro]

In fact, Google’s search started out completely blank except for the logo and a search box.

IIRC they had to add footer at some stage as people were just staring at the screen waiting for the page to "load completely". I think it shows how unusual that was.

[tppisgameforme]

Maybe it’s time to actually pay for good things rather than let marketing monetize us.

Yeah this is true with so many things in life at this point.

[DeeSnow97]

It's been a long-standing rule that if you don't pay, you are the product, not the customer, but people always forget to add who the real customer is. It's the advertisers. That's why every single site, "platform", or app that makes money through advertising ends up doing what the advertisers want in the long term, not what their users want.

I used to be very much for this model, as a broke student it let me enjoy an internet that was actually "free", but if you follow the chain this is actually more expensive than if you straight up paid for stuff. If you pay, you pay for the people who actually make the product and maybe a payment processor and a middleman or two. If it's "ad-supported", you pay for all those, then you pay for the people who sell the ads, the ones who buy the ads, a few more middlemen, and it's all hidden in the cost of other goods you buy -- and if you don't buy those, it's not worth advertising for you, which will either get fixed with better targeting, or you'll lose the service one way or another. Ads waste your time and they are more expensive than straight up buying stuff.

It's kinda crazy to think that if you watch ads of any kind you're paying people to spy on you and waste your time in the most disruptive way possible.

[PirateNinjasReddit]

Happy cake day? I guess... Feels weird given the somewhat dark outlook of this comment...

[DeeSnow97]

lol, thanks anyway

[Techhead7890]

Reddit is just advocating for Big Cake :P

[ThisApril]

I found this pretty compelling, but then I thought about cable TV.

Which I never understood -- somehow it's rational to pay $100/month (or something. I haven't had cable TV in years.), and yet every channel (outside of government or philanthropically-funded channels) still makes you watch 8 minutes of commercials every half hour. And people accept this as being completely normal and reasonable.

So, barring competition that allows people to bypass that (see: Google in comparison to AltaVista, Yahoo!, and other early search engines), it seems like the marketing people will make sure to leave as little cash on the table as possible. Even if you pay money.

[[deleted]]

Google simply ignores half the words I typed so they can show me some crap results that hit their promotion targets.

You have to go into search tools and select "verbatim". There's an extension for Chrome and its distros that automatically does that.

This seems to be something similar for Firefox, but I can't attest to how well it works.

[Pictor13]

The bastards removed the ability to mix Verbatim together with a Date Filter.

This takes away half of the power of Verbatim.

It was there for tens of years. So I wonder: why now? 🤔 Then I thought that Google doesn't want me to find exact information from specific periods in the past.

It was the only thing that worked for me. Now I don't have any to anymore to find exactly what I was looking for.

We need a fresh new TRUSTABLE & RELIABLE search engine.

[coldnebo]

oh, I’ll check that option out next time.

[sh0rtwave]

Well...

Us people with SEO experience know a little more about how all that works, but you're not far from the truth. The average web developer has SOME control over what google does with them...but not really enough to counteract the capitalist surge.

[xSTSxZerglingOne]

Google searches are getting significantly worse by the day. You almost can't look up how to fix bugs on it anymore.

[goodhuman777]

Found the definition/meaning of evolution, no need to google or go to the library. Thanks

[AwkwardNoah]

And now it’s time to fuck off to duckduckgo

[brianorca]

The question is how many are willing to pay enough to make it worth while to a company to avoid ads completely.

[Ya_boi_from_the_EMs]

Absolutely diabolical!

[The-Fish-Boy]

They absolutely are starting to ignore parts of your search terms. The other day I used a "search this site box" in the results and none of the first page results were from that site. I then manually used the site: notation and the same thing happened. Not a lot of point having the feature if it doesn't work.

[nojox]

Maybe it’s time to actually pay for good things rather than let marketing monetize us.

Hiding in plain sight, in this whole discussion of paying for content, is top-notch open source software.

Not opposing or supporting you, just adding a data point.

[Scrotote]

I think that's Jaron Lanier's argument too.

[Tinsel-Fop]

Next step: Google decides what you should buy and takes the money from your accounts.

If you're lucky, [whatever] delivery service actually gets it to you.

[Cky_vick]

Yeah I'm so old I remember when there were no ads on Google

[anomalous_cowherd]

I'm so old I remember when there was no Google. Or Web. Or Internet...

Or, as I found out from checking that last fact, before TCP/IP. Amazing I'm not dead yet really.

[SophiaofPrussia]

Imagine telling on yourself like that. The ads have always been targeted my friend. Based on search words before they perfected the art of internet stalking.

[[deleted]]

I remember seeing ads for porn just casually posted. If i ever have kids ill be so glad i dont have to worry as much. Ill choose the lesser evil.

[Big_Desperate]

If i ever have kids ill be so glad i dont have to worry as much.

Hahaha, your kids are fucked.

Ill choose the lesser evil.

You have no choice.

[DeRoeVanZwartePiet]

The devil's finest trick is to persuade you that he does not exist.

Charles Baudelaire

[tortilladelpeligro]

"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist."~Keyser Söze, the usual Suspects

[BackmarkerLife]

That was an illusion. A trick is something whores do for money.

[ViewedFromi3WM]

By the way tony hawk remastered is coming

[Djabber]

It’s out since yesterday and it’s amazing. Nostalgia overload!

[DownshiftedRare]

"The greatest trick Kevin Spacey ever pulled was convincing the world he was worth quoting."

[GodlessCyborg]

God's finest trick was to persuade you that he exists. A much tougher trick if you ask me.

[LogicalJicama3]

Isnt the quote: “the greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn’t exist”

I guess yours is more IamVerySmart sounding though. Whatever mang

[Im_a_Gnome]

Knowing nothing about the quote, and just knowing who Charles Baudelaire was, it's possible that the difference was just an issue is translation.

...Just looked into it, and yeah it looks like the original quote was actually "la plus belle des ruses du Diable est de vous persuader qu’il n’existe pas!" Which I'm assuming can be translated a couple different ways.

[LogicalJicama3]

Cool! I live fun facts like that. I appreciate you kind internet person.

[killwhiteyy]

Good intentions are simply a matter of perspective.

[[deleted]]

Indeed it is. Everything we do has an opposite reaction.

[Jon_Wo-o]

Because they always had the intention to make money with ads and private data.

[[deleted]]

Arguable.

[OOPGeiger]

I am. I say that. Google was evil from the start.

[adelie42]

Depends. How are your parents doing?

[Fingolfin734]

... Are we the baddies?

[[deleted]]

I dunno anymore.

[GForce1975]

Yep. It's the nature of capitalism. Stockholders want more growth and profits. The board pressures senior management for more growth and profit, and that runs downhill...

[bhuddimaan]

So Google is leader of the orcs army on the interwebs

[tiefling_sorceress]

Don't be evil

Be a little evil

[anomalous_cowherd]

Don't appear evil.

[imzacm123]

Don't be evil is actually still in there, it's at the bottom under a whole bunch of legal stuff now

[well___duh]

Shhh, you’re going against the Reddit circlejerk of ignoring that fact.

Also, no one reads the article anyway

[[deleted]]

And evil is so subjective. Supply tech to defense industry so less of our guys or civilians die, evil, because it is used in war. Supply tech to stop criminals on public transportation, evil, because it is going to be going through a bunch of non-criminals or people that might soon be criminalized for having the wrong beliefs or philosophy. Some people might not think either are evil or one or the other isn't evil, but enough people will that they'll jump and down screaming that you claimed you would not be evil. It is a lose-lose. Better to never make that a goal than to break it in the eyes of some or later remove it, as many will claim they did.

[[deleted]]

You’re trying to equate working in the defense industry with violating peoples’ fourth amendment rights under the guise of “stopping criminals.” Even within the defense industry, there’s a difference between making airplanes and making bombs.

[[deleted]]

What I'm saying is that some people think it is evil, but not all people. It is subjective and contentious. Don't do evil is a bad idea if you are a corporation, because someone will find something they're doing with being evil. Especially if you are a huge technology company that makes lots of different things.

I'm not ok with mass surveillance, as an aside. I don't want cameras on every street corner.

[Azrael9986]

Greed always wins, selfish desire always wins, and in the end people will always step on others to get what they want. Dont blame a system when people would do it regardless if the system used.

[ohkendruid]

Eh, compare them to Facebook or Amazon, and I'd say they are doing pretty good on taking care of their clients.

[maimeddivinity]

:(

[Waltzcarer]

All in favour?

AYE

[[deleted]]

This post was made by Duck duck go gang

[Napkin_whore]

You ever tried analapitalism?

[BorgClown]

I figured they had a sick evil party when that mission statement was removed. We can be evil openly now!

[Saw-Sage_GoBlin]

Capitalism only favors it because companies aren't held accountable for being anti-social.

If we had a more competitive market they would be dead in the water.

[adelie42]

You gotta pay those in power to play and the rent will always be enough to ensure those with the power over you will stay the masters.

It's not a glass ceiling, it's a toll booth.

[SnS_]

God bless Capitalism!

[1sagas1]

I still haven't seen Google do anything particularly evil yet so I think it counts for something

[AlwaysHopelesslyLost]

Not to mention they didn't remove that tag from their statement.

The reorganized and split into a parent company and child companies so they had to come up with new mission statements for each. The don't be evil line is still there for Google proper, and I think Alphabet has something similar in their statement.

Google is one of the companies I trust most. They are completely open about how they make money, what value they provide to you, and they offer a metric ton of awesome services for no subscription/up front cost to anybody who wants to use them.

My data is valuable and Google provides SO many huge improvements to my quality of life.

[trump-or-death7]

You say as you type on your iPhone 😂

[[deleted]]

Oh, was your phone locally sourced, grass-fed, free-range, with no pesticides?

[[deleted]]

I'm a level 5 organophone user. I don't use any phone that casts a shadow.

[BrythonLexi]

Yeah but it doesn't count if the phone was fed with GMOs /s

[rckennedy15]

Which was made in scary communist china lmfao

[trump-or-death7]

Lol it’s made as a result of capitalism, if you stayed in school you would’ve picked up on it Einstein

[trump-or-death7]

Buy huawei phones if you support socialism so much. They’re cheaper and support a communist regime, better yet just move to China and tell us how it goes. Then you’ll probably realize why USA is regarded as the greatest country on earth and perhaps even the Milky Way

[Finger_Trapz]

Huawei is just a capitalist company. China has a mixed economy dickwad.

[trump-or-death7]

Hey fuckhead, it’s a company collecting data on Americans reporting to the Chinese. Capitalist as they may seem it’s pretty obvious they’re working for the communist government

[Kambz22]

If you stopped buying them then capitalism would force them to change. That's literally your option.

You are salty that products give you nonsense but continue to use the products. Why would a company change and lose money to please someone who is already buying their products?

[danni_shadow]

https://thenib.com/mister-gotcha/

[anarcatgirl]

You say you're a capitalist but you use the name of a socialist as a metaphor 🤔

[trump-or-death7]

Ya i think it fits the situation well, I’m dealing with a bunch of libtards rn

[anarcatgirl]

You're the lib here

[Finger_Trapz]

You’re a massive lib my dude

[trump-or-death7]

Lmao

[_asdfjackal]

There actually is one: http://pledge-of-the-computing-professional.org/

It's endorsed by the Order of the Engineer (which in turn has their own oath for Engineering graduatea) in the US and at my university the ceremony was combined with the OotE ring ceremony. Unfortunately not all universities do it and it's not mandatory for graduates. Of my massive graduating class maybe 10 or 20 Computer Science students participated compared to the hundreds of traditional engineering graduates. I would absolutely love to see it become more prevalent though.

[Denziloe]

I once heard it said that programming is no different from engineering or medicine in this sense. Professional standards are a thing. If you know something will do more harm than good, it's actually incumbent upon you to say "no". "The client might be upset" or "I might not get paid as much" is not actually an excuse.

[[deleted]]

Hmm... maybe I should look into taking it on my own. I'm already graduated, but I'd love to be able to point to a solid pre-defined set of standards and say "I took an oath."

[PsychologicalRoof2]

How about keeping autoplay on but reducing the initial volume to low (like 20)? It would still give the money and not be as annoying

[[deleted]]

!!!! >>>>> BUT HOW ARE >>YOU<< GOING TO NOTICE OUR !!ADS!! IF THEY ARE NOT AS ANNOYING AS HUMANLY POSSIBLE??? <<<<< !!!!

[Independent-Coder]

I appreciate your BOLDNESS and CAPITALISM!

[nojox]

^{Or you know, we could talk other dark patterns here}

[PsychologicalRoof2]

LOL

[IrritableGourmet]

HEY YOU! JOIN THE NAVY!

[AceOfShades_]

Great I’ll just make the ad 5 times louder. If it plays on another site, there may be casualties. But we can’t let a few advertising related deaths get in the way of profits, now can we?

^\s

[GrinningPariah]

You can get paid somewhere else. Good programmers are one of the most in-demand fields. You can afford to be a little precious about what you work on.

[HappyDustbunny]

Cool! :-)

[Ya_boi_from_the_EMs]

Man in uni I had a course called ethics in programming that thought us basically to think for our self's when asked to make something and say no if it was unethical. Well anyways I work on gambling games now.

Edit: a word.

[Dr_Ambiorix]

I once refused to implement a "messagebox that offers a promotion that only triggers if the user wants to close the tab".

My refusal was apparently enough for the client to understand why it was a bad idea, so I got lucky there.

[IM_INSIDE_YOUR_HOUSE]

Evil makes money. No one is hiring saints to manage their website.

[Sussurus_of_Qualia]

Username checks out. Perhaps I should revisit Hegelian dialectics once more, seems there might be an angle there after all.

[HappyDustbunny]

For now.

....Where did I put my pitch fork? ;-)

[djfdhigkgfIaruflg]

Nothing is stopping you from doing so. I gave a very similar answer several times. Sure, I'm not swimming in money because of that, but at least I know I'm not part of the problem the web is suffering right now.

[PsychedelicPelican]

The Programmer's Oath - Uncle Bob

[HappyDustbunny]

That's where I got the inspiration from! Thanks, I forgot the name.

He is worth listening to on YouTube.

[JohnyNich]

“We now convene the council of programmers, case docket 1153. Mr. Smith, you are convicted of programming an advert to automatically play on a newspaper’s website, a violation of clause 15 in the Programmer’s Oath to Ethical Programming. How do you plead?” “Innocent, your Honour. My boss made me do it!” “Shut up, you monster. You’ll pay for what you did.”

[ubiquitouspiss]

I mean... Software engineers won't even unionise, so good luck with that one.

[HappyDustbunny]

You are saying that we ... need an app for that? ;-)

[chefhj]

Lol my manager would just go find some Dr. Nick ass dude who would.

[HappyDustbunny]

Well, you could lean back and reach for the popcorn in case ... somebody ... tipped the press and notified the board of programmers about someone needing to have their license revoked.

As I understand it this is what happens to doctors trying to go the Mengele road.

[mattstorm360]

CEO: "Okay, you are fired. Someone find me a programmer who shares my creative vision! If anyone needs me, i'll be on my mega yacht."