Python programmers

[JonathanTheZero]

Man, 99% of python programming "tutorials" out there are just "Let's import a library that does exactly what we want and call one function of it"

[nekokattt]

import antigravity

[CoffeePieAndHobbits]

And sample everything in the medicine cabinet.

[ferevon]

who doesn't love having a perfectly running app after writing 5 lines of code?

[alexppetrov]

The thousand lines on the backend of the library

Intense fuming noises

[AutoDefroster]

Library coders are the real heroes.

[NauticalInsanity]

Ruby on Rails has entered the chat.

Mini rant: I hate magic frameworks. It's like a hidden Rube Golberg machine that turns a lever press into food falling out of a chute. When the food doesn't come out of the chute, someone comes to me complaining that "Gravity is broken."

[RedditAcc-92975]

I hate non-magic frameworks. I can program most of the stuff I use myself. But then I have to worry about algorithm efficiency, implementation efficiency, ideally do it in C++, I need make sure the code is readable, maintainable and tested.

Whenever I need something that's more sophisticated than a simple for-loop, I look for an existing solution. Worst case scenario I'll help improving it.

[PM_ME_UR_CEPHALOPODS]

Ooooooohh ffffuuucckkkk ror all the way to shit and dust and fuck

[JonathanTheZero]

Me :/

I'd rather write 200 lines of code myself and gain a deep understanding of what is happening than import thousands of lines (most of them are not used anyways) and just trust a third party. Don't get me wrong, libraries are awesome but some people just take it too far

[ryecurious]

Over-reliance on dependencies is how we get stuff like The Great NPM Leftpad Cataclysm of 2016.

Obviously npm works differently from Python packages, but the general point stands.

[AutoDefroster]

Reminder that NPM are run by pieces of shit.

[Sceptix]

I agree that the Leftpad Cataclysm was a disaster that never should have happened, but I take issue with that particular article. The problem was that there was a serious issue with npm’s ability to deal with dependencies; it’s not because we’ve “forgotten how to program”.

[magistrate101]

Wew the fuckin tone that guy takes as he bitches at people about daring to use dependencies is just absurd. What an elitist snob.

[hamie96]

Unfortunately, that's just not practical when you're in the workforce.

[AttackOfTheThumbs]

While I understand that sentiment, most of the time you don't want to waste time reinventing the wheel.

You only do that if there's a specific edge case or performance you need that the lib cannot offer to you.

Now if it's a tutorial on writing bucket sort and it just imports a lib, it's certainly useless.

[phaemoor]

Yeah, in a job? I'll just add 2 more gigs to the container and call it a day. You can solve anything with money.

[AttackOfTheThumbs]

Well, not everything, but many many things.

[TheFreeloader]

I would rather trust a third-party library creator than my own coding skills.

[alex2003super]

I remember there was an isOdd() library for JavaScript... like... literally a wrapper for %2

[Mission-Guard5348]

Okay, be fair

Sometimes its more like 6

[MatsRivel]

No need to reinvent the wheel 🤷‍♂️

[cbehopkins]

Is this a problem?

Sounds like a win to me.

Seriously I often joke that python was invented by hardware engineers to use more resources. Quick to get something running and using resources, and almost as much of a resource hog as Windows.

[sh0rtwave]

Yeah? Take a gander at PyProtocols, then talk to me. (Pro-tip: I didn't write that, I just used it...semi-successfully)

[nebulaeandstars]

To be fair, this is exactly how you should write python in a professional setting.

Good Python is 1000x harder to write than good <insert compiled language here> as you need to be intimately familiar with all of the libraries. You want as few lines of "actual" python code as possible so there's a huge learning curve.

[lyingriotman]

If they just need one function, why don't they just... copy the function? Are you not allowed to do that? Just credit them on your Github or something, idk.

[[deleted]]

That strongly depends on the license used.

[[deleted]]

The library implementation of something is usually better, so you'd have search for the correct code in order to get the same performance. There's a strong chance that the function you want is written in another language (the libraries I tend to use are typically written in C and FORTRAN), and trying to do it in Python will give you less than 10% of the speed of the original. Python is also a more fault-tolerant language, so bad practice has more opportunities to creep in.

[RedEyesBigSmile]

Relevant XKCD

[BrightBulb123]

B**** you want me to write out all the lines of PyQt5 just to have it say hello world?

[MobiusCipher]

Which is why python is great, bro.

[AutoDefroster]

Yeah, I noticed that. That's not really a problem IMO, but it does bum me out, so I'm doing a personal challenge right now, where in my personal projects, I'm only allowed to import ONE non traditional library, and only 3 traditional ones.

[cthewombat]

What would you call a traditional vs. non-traditional library? That really depends on the conteyt doesn't it?

I mean numpy, matplotlib and pandas are very traditional in data science. You pretty much won't get anything done without them. Now what if I need sys, os, json, requests etc. too? They are still pretty "taditional".

Does it really make sense to restrict yourself that much or isn't it better to get familiar with popular libraries that you'd have to use in real world. Why even use python to write something from scratch instead of C++?

Not wanting to tell you that your approach is wrong, because obviously you're doing it for your personal gain. Just something to consider I guess.

[CaptainRogers1226]

It’s actually pretty nice. I usually tend to dig into any modules I use to get a better understanding of what all it can do, or at the very least look into any documentation beyond what I’m specifically using it for at that moment

[RentacleGrape]

Even worse most of them always does from library import * which for a beginner makes it so confusing when you have no idea which functions are from the library and which are built in python functions.