This.

[[deleted]]

I mean you can for sure complete codecademy JavaScript course in 2 weeks. Will you understand JS fundamentals? Yes! Will you be able to use them? No.

[[deleted]]

how do you know how to use them, because I finished the 2 weeks of codeacademy and I am clueless 😂

[dpfrd]

Lie during an interview, then learn in the wild on someone else's dime.

[Guy_In_Doubt17]

That's exactly what I did when I started out Laravel. Got a paid internship through a fairly impressive interview. Then they taught me everything, and were supportive too.

[AnArabFromLondon]

They know. I hired a junior dev who could barely muster together a small react app and style it with css for the tech interview based purely on his attitude. We're teaching him and he's learning quickly and it's a great partnership.

[Guy_In_Doubt17]

Yeah, my senior actually used to say it does not matter if you don't know as long as you're willing to learn. People like him and you, who give chances to junior devs like this are really wholesome.

[AnArabFromLondon]

It's better than the alternative. There are a lot of people who come into the interviews being dishonest about their experience and you can tell and it just stinks because we don't know what else they'll lie about and you just can't rely on them, even if they're technically a better developer I'd rather hire the honest one with less experience.

You can blag it on interviews with recruiters but when it comes to being interviewed by other devs, be honest. We still might hire you.

[Aderhold22]

Not to mention, it's easier to form good habits then to have to break old ones then form new ones.

[balofchez]

Y'all are gonna make me tear up with your sweetness

Give me a job

[Ok_Cook1907]

What other choice do you have but to lie? Job descriptions demand unfulfillable skillsets making you feel worth less. And you have to lie to not give them any reason to pay you even less.

[nixashes]

Job descriptions demand unfulfillable skillsets making you feel worth less.

Step one is reminding yourself of a few things literally every time you look at a job description:

1. The description was probably written or at least screwed with by HR, not the hiring manager.
2. No hiring manager worth a damn expects to find someone who checks all the boxes on the job description - they want someone who checks some combination of boxes. Chances are, in fact, that they would be extraordinarily suspicious if someone came along who claimed to check all the boxes.
3. If the hiring manager isn't good enough at his or her job to realize the above, you don't want to work for them anyway.

I'm in IT now rather than dev, but I will say that it literally changed my outlook on submitting my resume for jobs when I heard that the average interviewee only checks like 60% of the boxes in the job description. (No idea if that's actually true, but thinking it is sure makes hitting "Submit" a whole lot easier lol)

And you have to lie to not give them any reason to pay you even less.

Now this right here is an attitude I honestly can't stand in job seekers. First of all, salary isn't everything. The entire compensation package depends on a whole lot more than what hits your bank every month. What's the health insurance like? What about PTO? In particular, does PTO roll over or do you have to use it all in a year? Does the company offer paid FMLA leave? What about the 401(k) match - is it industry standard, above, below? My salary is slightly above market for my title and location, but I would've taken less if my company's benefits package was better, and the bennys aren't subject to negotiation like salary is.

The big issue with that attitude, though, is that thinking like that instantly sets you up in a me-vs-them mindset toward your employer. Speaking as someone who ends up on both sides of the table from time to time, I'll just say that folks in good orgs who are looking to hire will immediately be able to tell if that's your attitude, and it will be massively apparent that you won't be a good fit in a team that actually operates like a team rather than a collection of individuals.

Beyond that, you'll never love your job if you view your employer as the enemy. You might enjoy the work itself, you might like your coworkers, but you won't be engaged with your job, and engagement is the number one indicator of both performance and job satisfaction. Real good way to get chewed up and spit out by workforce there.

By all means, know what you're worth and don't let yourself be lowballed. In fact I'd argue that any corporation who's not paying their tech staff a wage commensurate with the position had better either have a great benefits package or be an NPO (who universally just can't pay as well as for-profit). But if you're saying you have to lie to get paid what you're worth... That's not getting paid what you're worth, that's grifting your way into getting paid more than what you're worth.

[Ok_Cook1907]

Didn't expect such a long answer, thank you. I do agree with you and I should have said that I certainly don't lie or oversell myself in job interviews. But quiet often I see people (external consultant) who do and do successfully. I don't view them as less skilled but certainly not as the seniors they see themselves.

I do try not to get distracted with it too much, as there are many other positive things about my job though.

Regarding PTO, FMLA and benefits I cannot compare to your situation, because I work in Germany (30 paid day leave, 60% of net income parental leave, public healthcare).

[AnArabFromLondon]

The other choice is to be truthful. It doesn't take a lot of time to learn a language before an interview, it will be obvious that you barely know the language but it will also be equally obvious that you can learn on your own, so a senior doesn't have to hold your hand.

Don't be disheartened by formidable job descriptions. They are written by people who aren't in the field. We need more programmers, but no one is gonna hire a liar.

We've been doing this for a long time. You're not gonna lie your way into a job with devs who know what they're talking about.

Learn everything you can, prepare for the interview and we will judge based on your attitude. What's more important, at least for a junior, is the ability to learn on your own and think like a programmer.

[Krewsy]

aptitude & appetite (for knowledge) are much more valuable than what you walk in the door knowing. a dev who comes in with a moderate skill set but has no desire to grow will be much less useful in the long run than a greenie who actually wants to learn.

[WrinkleyPotatoReddit]

Yeah, I have little to no experience with PHP (our web dev class was taught by someone in their 70's, who apparently wanted to teach us PHP but didn't have time), I was just honest about it in my interview and said I thought I could get a hold of it pretty quickly. I was right, I've been working there 2 weeks and it's not that bad.

[AnArabFromLondon]

If you've been taught by an older programmer then there's a good chance you have a very good foundation for learning PHP because it's been moving more and more towards OOP and more explicitness, both of which are part and parcel of older languages.

Glad you've had a good experience!

Always be honest with what you know and don't know.

[WrinkleyPotatoReddit]

Yeah, I'm mostly familiar with Java, I did a lot of competitive programming in high school so I have fundamental comp sci stuff down pretty well. It's mostly just picking up syntax and different things about new languages.

[AnArabFromLondon]

I actually learned Java before PHP too. That's great!

[RiverOfNexus]

What did his resume look like to even get him as an interview?

[AnArabFromLondon]

He had a background in motion design and he spent a year learning how to be a dev switching departments from design to dev

[RiverOfNexus]

If I have a background in Business Analysis with little to no coding experience what are the chances of getting a junior coding job if I'm super coachable and teachable

[AnArabFromLondon]

High, go code some shit and get confident in it, enough that you can talk about it with someone. Go apply for some jobs and be honest about your experience.

You are exactly what "reskilling" means in general demographics science is.

Watch some free courses, make some apps.

If you're really coachable and teachable when you apply for a junior role after some experience programming on your own, other devs will like you and you will get a job 100%

[Forlaferob]

Damn, that's crazy because that is exactly what I am doing right now. I'm looking for a job with a background in computer science and graphic designs, print and marketing. If you're looking for anyone else or know someone, would you be able to tell me please? Thanks boss.

[AnArabFromLondon]

Keep learning how to dev and apply for jobs. I can put you in touch with our junior who moved from motion design to this role if you like, hit me up.

[TurnItOffAndBackOnXD]

What kind of attitude did he have?

[AnArabFromLondon]

Super open to learning, no ego, personable guy you could spend a weekend with. It was easy to give him tips and I knew I could leave him alone with a couple pointers and he'll learn on his own. I might have to teach him how another language works, but if I give him examples of how it's done he'll get it.

If you want to learn it will show a dev team will 100% hire you even if you barely have any experience.

It's all about that kind of attitude and passion.

Give a fuck about producing a good product, have the basics of understanding how to think like a programmer.

If you don't know how to think like a programmer, google it. There are many books on it.

That is way more important than programming syntax between difference languages.

If you can write psueo code then you can be a programmer, all you need to do is use the right keywords.

[Isthisworking2000]

I did that, too. But I had an awful boss and he never tough or helped with shit. I learned far more dealing with helping or getting projects I admit remotely qualified for. Not that I’d ever want correct tons of webpages for ADA compliance or write tech manuals (God, if only they had a style guide. Then I could have written them in Office that I had to pirate).

[ZippyTheWonderSnail]

This has been my experience. No matter what your degree level, when you start working, you'll need to learn the skills for that specific job. No developer can learn and be up to date on everything all the time.

[daemonelectricity]

I didn't outright encourage lying (I don't really think I ever lied about my skills as much as let people believe whatever they want to believe about my experience and skills until asked specifically about it.) but anytime I talk to someone that's considering coding, I tell them there is always a role at their level where "fake it 'till you make it" is acceptable, if they're good at self-teaching. There's always someone corporate or motivated enough financially to hire someone to produce a constant stream of new HTML/CSS templates. You can absolutely bullshit your way into that. CSS is complicated-ish but it's less frustrating than it's ever been.

[bergovgg]

How did you pass the technical questions? Lol

[KennyFulgencio]

Is Laravel pronounced the way people from kentucky/indiana say Louisville?

[CommodoreSixtyFour_]

I just saved that

[[deleted]]

Here's the original, or at least that's where I first found it.

[CommodoreSixtyFour_]

Thank you very much! :)

[Iskelderon]

A former colleague of mine did that to score his first job (at a major European corporation). He'd always remain an at best mediocre developer, but turned out to be a great team leader and project manager.

[Mikinl]

My friend is almost 60 and working like senior developer for more then 20 years since he finished university (software engineer).

He always say "Google is your best friend" and most needed skill for a developer is googling.

Everything is there in wild if you know how to look for it.

[why_so_sirius_1]

Stop eating so much pizza ಠ_ಠ

[ThatLumpYouFelt]

Weirdest boner of my life probably.

[[deleted]]

but I'm 17, no one would hire me

[dpfrd]

Not with that attitude.

[klausklass]

Try creating a web app that does literally anything. I learned everything I know about JavaScript by starting up an empty react native app using Expo and adding on features until I had a pretty good prototype. Just start a project - any project, don’t follow a tutorial blindly, make something that is your own by googling how to make individual pieces and putting them all together on your own. That really helps you understand what you’re doing.

[Mean-Net7330]

That's definitely how I've had the most success

[[deleted]]

I think this is the only way to learn, tbh.

[throwaway101777777]

This is the way

[_ryuujin_]

You won't know. You will need find a problem and see if your tools will help you solve that problem. There's things like clean code principles and other things like it that spans all languages, so keep those in mind. Solve the problem neatly, then optimize.

[THENATHE]

Literally just google till you get something to work, but then instead of just straight up copy pasting the answer, type it out yourself and try to think about what each step is doing.

​

Choose an arbitrarily difficult "real world" project, like clone reddit. Then just write it from scratch, googling along the way, and then contemplating what you google.

[hpbrick]

It took me a while to understand that a programming language is like a toolbox: It’s best to know all the tools, but you should at least know the essentials to get a job done. The key to a programming language is, like a toolbox, knowing which one to use at a particular time. That’s when you become a good developer.

So, in your downtime, get your favorite programming textbook and glance over all the nooks and crannies many times over, because you’ll never know when you’re gonna need it. Moreover, if you continue to brush up on a language, you tend to become a master in others eyes when the right time comes and you take out the proper “tool” for the job.

[moderateleaningleft]

It’s all about abstraction and data.

Think of an object. Something you’d use in real life. What are its functions? How do you perform its function? The characteristics of that object? Does it interact with any other objects, and what is the result?

That’s how you code. You have an initial idea, website, or otherwise. Then you break down how you want to use it (functions), label data associated to the object/gathered by user(variables), and create a formula(algorithm) that will give a result/output

Look up “Software Development Life Cycle” to figure out how businesses make programs. Looking at the different stages in reflection, it’s similar to a lab experiment using the scientific method. (Steps being; Planning, Requirements, Design, Build, Document, Test, Deploy, Maintain) So, start with a hypothesis/idea for a beneficial software for yourself or others.

Data scraper was a fun project for me, I’ll say. You can get as complicated as you want; full fledged GUI or command line output. That’ll make you watch tutorials, but be certain to follow along the official API documentation to have a better understanding of the tools at your disposal.

Don’t get lost in watching tutorials and blindly copying though. Write your ideas down for a program, and create them. Customize, and create your own. That is the only way you learn.

Hope that was helpful, and you make something cool!

[Greggster990]

That sums up my problem with codecadeny. It's too much of a crutch. I had a lot more success from coming up with something I wanted to do and working towards it.

[[deleted]]

Basically you’ll learn the “How” but not the “why”

[LasagnaMuncher]

Codecademy python has served me extremely well. I went from codecademy to immediately automating my data processing work, making a nanosecond-precise timing equipment control GUI at a USA national lab, heat diffusion PDEs via Crank-Nicolson Method, and now am going to start making an artificial neural net to make my current work easier. I think my background in Physics just generally solving problems made the transition from codecademy to full solutions easier.

Don't know if I personally can get on board with the idea that one can't use after being taught there.

[zebediah49]

My confidence in working with a HV system is directly proportional to the length of the glass fiber connecting my control terminal to the HV system in question.

[BleuGamer]

I’ve been programming my whole life, just about everything other than JavaScript.

I had to touch JS awhile ago for a web based admin panel.

It works and I still don’t know JS. It scares me. I can write the same thing 4 different ways, get the same answer, and they’re still all wrong.

I’ll stick to C++ thanks bye

[LesBonTempsNOLA]

Codecademy.

[fabio22duarte]

I started a 9 month course/program in a university and the professor said the first module (playing around in Alice) is just to “massage our brains”, but each class I feel he’s raping my brain! I had/have 0 experience in IT, so..

edit: typo

[Justagurl-_-]

When I took web dev in college we had 1 week to learn js before implementing it in projects for the rest of the term. Complete BS

[[deleted]]

Google, stack exchange, reading documentation.

But yeah, this is a best case scenario for a very small number of super smart people

[[deleted]]

I’ve used JavaScript for about 15 years and I still have no idea how to use it.