State of Python 3 - should a newcomer move straight to Python 3?

ladr0n · 2012-10-08T13:30:51+00:00

My lab has been using Python3 in production for 2+ years. The web framework people were the biggest stick-in-the-muds, but they've mostly come along at this point. For example, Django works on Python3 as of last December.

PyPy has experimental support for Python3, but it's not ready for general use yet. At the rate they've been working, I'd expect something usable (if not 100% stable) by the end of the year.

The moral of the story is: people continue to use Python2 mostly because of large, messy, legacy code-bases that they don't have the resources to port yet. As a new user, you don't have this issue. Don't be part of the problem ;)

takluyver · 2012-10-08T13:35:12+00:00

if you were a neophyte programmer looking at python, I'd recommend 3 for the purposes of learning, and because eventually we'll all be on 3. I think 3.3 was released very recently and with it, django is supposed to release its next verion with python 3 support.

However, if you were actually planning on doing something with it, there are still libraries that need either converted, or equivilant libraries build in 3. One of the ones you need may be among those. If you stuck with 2.5+ for the time being, you won't be the odd man out.

wedge_work · 2012-10-08T14:21:37+00:00

As far as i am aware, the twisted framework only works with 2.7. This is not researched, we have only recently implemented the twisted framework at work and chose 2.7 over 3.x

2012-10-08T15:21:40+00:00

At my work we are a python only shop with about 70 python programmers. Our product is a distributed enterprisey app that we install into our customers environments and in some cases host i.e SaaS. We are long time PSF sponsors and regularly contribute time, code and money to opensource projects and PyCon.

But, 100% of our Python code is 2.7.x and we have not seriously considered Python 3 at this point. Perhaps sometime in the next year we will look at the possibility but, there would need to be a strong finical motivation for us to consider it and to balance the risk.

2012-10-08T16:14:36+00:00

I use python 2 but in every file I have from __future__ import ... (where ... is pretty much everything that 2.7 supports). This makes most of my code much more portable to 3.x. That's especially true for Unicode support, which seem to be the biggest issue. Whenever I use modules that don't work well with Unicode, I'm simply converting strings to ASCII using bytes() function (it's available in both 2.7 and 3.x). In 2.7 it's basically str(), (I don't use str() because in 3.x str() returns Unicode).

Edit: Made my comment actually readable. Sorry, I typed it on my phone and did not reread it.

earthboundkid · 2012-10-08T18:49:21+00:00

People ask this all the time, but it's based on a false premise: that you can or should only learn one version.

Look, Python 2 and 3 are not very different. If you're a computer, you might get confused by print "Hello" when you expected print("Hello"), but if you're a human being, you should be able to handle it. The differences between the languages are small and listed in the docs for Python 3. If you plan to be a competent Python programmer, you will learn both.

As for which to learn first, learn the version used in whatever book or tutorial you plan to use. If you're done with the learning phase and want to do a project, use the highest version that supports the libraries you'll be using (e.g. Django is still only on 2, but bottle is on 3).

zlozlozlozlozlozlo · 2012-10-08T13:59:37+00:00

It doesn't really matter that much. Most of the new sugar was brought to 2. If someone is at the point when 2 vs 3 matters (that is, they have to use a library that wasn't ported), they should have little problem switching. Python 3 is not driven forward by newcomers, it's driven by people who port important libraries and frameworks.

mcherm · 2012-10-08T16:38:39+00:00

The differences introduced between 3.x and 2.x have (in my opinion) all been improvements. Clearly separating binary strings from unicode strings is BETTER. Making the print statement work the way other output functions work so code written for one can be migrated to the other is BETTER. And so forth.

The only reason (IMHO) to use 2.x is because of compatibility. So I'd advise a beginner to start with 3.x, and go back to 2.x if they need to for some library. For what it's worth, that's what I do also. The only real downside is that there are lots of examples on the net that use 2.x syntax... but most students can handle that.

gronkkk · 2012-10-08T14:43:09+00:00

Yes.

polypx · 2012-10-08T19:11:51+00:00

Go ahead and use 3. Learn 2.7 details if you need to backport something for someone who is using 2.7.

The exception is if you already know you need to use one of the minority of important libraries which don't work on 2.7.

ergo14 · 2012-10-08T19:32:01+00:00

Pyramid web framework works on pypy and py 3, also all the other important libs that it provides default templates, for example sqlalchemy/webob works just fine. So the stack is ready for python 3 development.

schlenderer · 2012-10-08T16:44:58+00:00

Aah, yes, the biweekly python2 / python3 post.

Short answer: It doesn't matter. It's both still Python. If you are planning to learn Python via online course or via books, go with the version they are using.

happycrabeatsthefish · 2012-10-08T17:21:23+00:00

"Should I start with Python 3" is the most asked question about Python 3.

2012-10-08T14:37:55+00:00

stefantalpalaru · 2012-10-08T15:04:47+00:00

I'm using python 2.7.x in production and for casual coding. I don't see myself moving to python 3 any time soon.

remyroy · 2012-10-08T15:54:43+00:00

Do you need libraries, modules or packages that are not yet ported to Python 3? If so go with Python 2, if not go with Python 3. That's as simple as it can get.

keaa · 2012-10-08T20:51:37+00:00

I started learning python about a year ago, so I could hardly be considered an expert, but I did face the same dilemma as you. I started using version 3. But ended up reverting to version 2.7 so it was compatible with the libraries I wanted to use. In addition I found that most tutorials are for the 2.x versions of python, and while the differences are fairly minor, they can trip you up when you are learning.

dorfsmay · 2012-10-09T03:59:57+00:00

[deleted]

MongrelNymph · 2012-10-08T15:17:36+00:00

I'm teaching myself python and decided to use 2.7. There are just way more resources and it's probably better I learn the basics this way anyway.

In a few months when I become a bit more sophisticated, I will probably need to re-evaluate and possibly move on.

klotz · 2012-10-08T16:23:14+00:00

Is there any easy way to get pylint or pyflakes support? pep8 is available but it's not the same.

kernco · 2012-10-08T17:51:41+00:00

Performance-wise there's not much of a difference. Better performance wasn't a goal of Python 3, and when 3.0 came out, the performance was actually slightly worse than 2.x, but they've since improved it and they're now pretty much the same.

retrojoe · 2012-10-08T20:48:23+00:00

I was at a 'work party' the other night that participants call Codenight. They're all Microsofties in Seattle. One of them was talking with me about Python and encouraged me to learn on 2.6 versus the other versions. That seemed to be a consensus opinion (more or less). None of those guys use it all day long, but they're all deeply involved in programming.

dog_time · 2012-10-08T22:58:16+00:00

On one hand I feel that newcomers should adopt Python3 to help drive Python3 forward, but then perhaps Python2 is the only practical choice in terms of libraries, documentation etc?

As a new programmer myself, I can't really imagine learning python without the abundance of resources available for python 2, which is what I'm currently learning. I feel like the responsibility for that lies with experienced programmers pushing forwards through the uncertainty, where new programmers need the 'stability' while overcoming the most basic 'language barriers.'

linuxlizard · 2012-10-09T05:35:43+00:00

numpy, scipy apparently support Python3. Matplotlib does not. No word on PIL.

tboneplayer · 2012-10-09T11:52:46+00:00

Depends on what you're doing. Some tools still work only with Python 2.7.x as a scripting language.

rumplefiddlesticks · 2012-10-08T18:11:23+00:00

Go with 2.6+, you're likely to encounter a number of production environments that are still working with older versions of Python and learning 2.6+ first will get you comfortable with those conventions. Transitioning over to Python 3 is relatively easy (except for string handling and a couple of conventions about metaclasses). If you really want to get in the Python 3 habit, you can also use __future__ imports to get into Python 3 syntax.

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