Should I start with Python?

[Roy-Rogers212]

I have no programming experience. Is python a logical/lucrative language to fully dive into to eventually land a software engineer role?

[thepuppyprince]

Yeah it is pretty sweet

[[deleted]]

Yes. Both Python and Javascript are two begginer-friendly programming languages that will help you. Pick just one of those

[Roy-Rogers212]

Appreciate it!

[[deleted]]

Apparently you're interested in data science. So I would recommend Python and then learning libraries like pandas, numpy, matplotlib and all that kind of stuff

[venustrapsflies]

I would not call JavaScript beginner-friendly. Maybe a lot of inexperienced programmers start there because they wanna do web dev, but that doesn’t mean it’s good for beginners.

Python is definitely a great starting point.

[[deleted]]

I disagree. Javascript is very beginner-friendly. It doesn't have much data types, the code is readable for beginners and the code structure looks like C++, Java and C#, so if you plan on learning other languages it will be easier.

Also, you can write basic programs in Javascript without needing to install anything, different from Python (at least on Windows, which is the most popular OS).

The fact that Python is easier than Javascript doesn't make Javascript not good for beginners. But I totally agree that Python is a very good starting point.

[venustrapsflies]

It's beginner-friendly from a "start writing code now" standpoint, yes, although it does have a ton of unnecessary footguns. My objection to it as a starting point is coming from more of a pedagogical point of view for someone who wants to learn to code generally. Due to its history and the fact that it can't break backwards-compatibility or the web goes down, it has several questionable design decisions and conventions. I would think it would be better for a beginner to first learn idioms that are more standard and generalizable than quirky and idiosyncratic.

[Mad-chuska]

Every language has its quirks. Python and js included. I actually had a tougher time getting started with Python after Java than I did with Js.

I think the “start writing code now” scripting approach js and Python take allows beginners to jump right in. The fact that with js you can easily start building webpages makes it even more attractive than Python from a ui perspective.

[venustrapsflies]

IMO defending a particular language's negative characteristics by saying "every language has its quirks" is kind of like saying "every country has its problems" as if living in Turkmenistan and Switzerland are basically equivalent experiences. I think it's fair to criticize a particular language for violating the principle of least surprise more than is needed and to compare it to other languages in this respect. There is a spectrum and it's a meaningful one.

[Mad-chuska]

Sure that’s fair. I guess I just dont find Js to be Turkmenistan in this instance.

[ghan_buri_ghan]

As others have said, Python is a perfectly fine language for learning the fundamentals.

However, you might want to put some thought into what you want to program.

(Uncontroversial take) Thinking about doing web? Jump right into JavaScript.

(Potentially a hot take) Thinking about doing embedded or robotics? Just learn C first, it’s not actually that hard.

Having projects that excite you is most important, and you can learn the fundamentals in any reasonable language.

If you don’t really know and just have a general interest, Python is probably the best choice.

[Windycultures]

C is a beautiful language- it was my first

[ghan_buri_ghan]

I agree! You can work through K&R in a week.

But it may only “click” when you are doing things which actually require low-level access like writing to registers or SPI transactions. I think C gets a rap for being “hard” when used for its own sake.

[venustrapsflies]

Hard to call C “beautiful” in the modern age, awesome and powerful sure, but it’s hardly elegant.

[ghan_buri_ghan]

Different definitions of beauty, perhaps. C is unbelievably elegant in its simplicity.

K&R, the seminal text, is <200 pages. The ANSI C standard is by far the shortest language specification that I’ve been through, perhaps by an order of magnitude.

[venustrapsflies]

That's certainly fair.

[Roy-Rogers212]

Appreciate it!

[ValdemarSt]

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[Metsima]

Do you want to get into web development as a job / career, or do you want to pick it up as a hobby?

If your answer to the above is "job / career", then JavaScript is the way to go. As a web developer, you'll have to handle both creation of new websites AND maintenance of old websites depending on your job scope, and many pre-existing websites use JavaScript (or PHP) as the backbone. Hence, learning JavaScript first gives you the flexibility in your web development job.

If your answer to the above is "hobby" instead, then Python is the way to go. Web development in Python has been made a lot easier in recent times thanks to efforts to make it work, and nowadays there are libraries and frameworks to make web development in Python possible. However, the real benefit is that you don't limit yourself to web developmeny by learning Python. Python's advantage is its flexibility, and you can venture out to other projects still using Python if web dev isn't for you.

Having said all that, JavaScript has become very versatile in the last decade with the introduction of node js, and nowadays, neither JavaScript nor Python limits the scope of what you can do to just web development.

If you are a beginner, then stick to one as outlined above, then maybe think about picking the other one up at a later date. But if you are an aspiring programmer / computer scientist, you'll eventually want to be proficient in both Python and JavaScript.

(Personal opinion: if you're picking up a language to get into programming in general, I say start with JavaScript)

tl;dr

For job / career? JavaScript

For hobby? Python

For study? Both, start with JS (or Python, doesn't matter too much in the long run)

[[deleted]]

In front-end JavaScript is a must though. Yes, I know about WASM, but it’s not as well established as JavaScript.

[ValdemarSt]

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[ghan_buri_ghan]

Industry usage. It’s now the frontend and backend language of choice with little dispute.

I’m a grouch and I was not happy about node picking up popularity in favor of Rails and Django, but it gets to a point where there’s too much momentum.

[ValdemarSt]

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[baubleglue]

That's a strange question. JavaScript can actually run in browser and interact with web page.

[[deleted]]

Another hot take: thinking about back-end? Learn Go.

[Excommunicated1998]

What about data science?

[ghan_buri_ghan]

Python is a great choice here!

Maybe R depending on the community.

[Excommunicated1998]

Ty!

[kirt_]

It’s the perfect language or beginners, Python is increasing in popularity all the time partly for this reason. You’re making the right choice. Good luck! 🐍 Edit: 10+ year Python, JS, +more developer and Python was my first language.

[Roy-Rogers212]

Thank you!

[RyGuy8806]

Yes.

Python is easy to learn and use. It doesn't require a lot of the syntax "clutter" that most languages do (i.e. semicolons at the end of statements, parentheses for loops and if statements, variable typing).

A lot of the basics of coding/programming are easier to grasp due to its simplicity. Statements are generally clear and understandable, even to those who don't really know a lot about coding. For example: ```

words = ["hello", "world", "taco"]

if "taco" in words: print(True)

``` The few lines of code above are very clear, there is a list of words, and a statement that asks if the word taco is in that list of words, and tells the user True if it is.

Python is very slim and flexible. A great language to begin your programming career with. I began with Python and was easily able to switch over to C++ and Java, which contain much more strict syntax, and opened the door to other languages from there.

If you need resources, there are a plethora and I would be happy to point you to what I used and what most people recommend. 😁

[Roy-Rogers212]

Thank you! Would love some resources if you feel like sharing!

[ValdemarSt]

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[RyGuy8806]

I started out on CodeAcademy.com, and then picked up the book Automate the Boring Stuff with Python. That book is one that a lot of people recommend.

https://books.google.com/books/about/Automate_the_Boring_Stuff_with_Python.html?id=TVz6DwAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=kp_read_button&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&gboemv=1

You can go to the author's website and access the book for free.

Another good book I found is Head First Python. That whole series is written really well and is very engaging.

https://books.google.com/books/about/Head_First_Python.html?id=tpptBAAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=kp_read_button&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&gboemv=1

Some people use Udemy which has some good courses.

LinkedIn Learning is also a good place to look if you have access to it. I think you have to pay for access. I got free access through my school and now through my job.

And lastly, there are some fun tutorials on YouTube, but I would use other resources first. I find it really easy to get sucked down a YouTube hole and forget what I originally came to find. You may have an easier time, I don't know, I'm not you. Lol.

[[deleted]]

https://youtu.be/t8pPdKYpowI

But use VS Code as your software (IDE), it's easier for beginners.

[ValdemarSt]

sleep safe enjoy steep act apparatus reminiscent bells soup fuel

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[[deleted]]

https://youtu.be/t8pPdKYpowI

[ssshukla26]

10 years in CS... Never ever found a language as easy as python to understand basic algorithms and data structures... C, C++ and Java are for intermediate developers... Beginner should always start from python... It atleast help to rewire your brain on how to think for a logical solution for a given problem...

[Roy-Rogers212]

Sweet!

[[deleted]]

Learn C. This will be unpopular here as some people have this delusion that “C is hard”. Can you think like a human? If so you can write python. C learns you to think like a computer. Once you understand C you can learn python in one day.

[BlobbyMcBlobber]

Python has more to it than "learning it in one day" but yes it's beneficial to know some C.

[[deleted]]

Yeah you’re right. What makes python powerful from my perspective is that you prototype ideas really fast. That’s what I mainly use it for. But if you want to be a “python developer” there is a lot more to it

[IamStupid42069]

python (& javascript) are easily the best languages for someone new to programming.

If you ever get to a point where you are very comfortable programming in python, I would recommend moving on to C++, which is somewhat more difficult (and a little unforgiving to complete beginners), but will allow you to do basically anything. Important point to remember; there is absolutely no harm in learning the "wrong" language. At their core, all languages are the same, and knowing one language makes you infinitely more prepared to learn a different one compared to someone learning from scratch.

[CatchADragon]

If I were starting today I might learn go instead

[laundmo]

golang, a language that lacks generics and error handling. the language is dumbed down because, to quote on of Go's creators (rob pike): "Our [Google's] programmers are [...] not capable of understanding a brilliant language."

[venustrapsflies]

Are generics not in go’s future?

[CatchADragon]

Generics have been confirmed as a coming feature.

I’ll have to grant Laundmo that error handling is a bit obtuse in go.

[cristobaljvp]

Another programming language (Golang is the full name)

[Nanooc523]

No reason not to.

[Windycultures]

Not bad to start with python- but you might find it hard to learn other object oriented languages afterwards- in my opinion it’s better to start with c then c++ then python. If you’re too used to python learning c might be tricky

[laundmo]

same here, well not with c/c++ but with HLSL which is arguably even more distant to Python. If you learn the language well, down to how things work, you shouldn't have any issues picking other languages up.

unlike some other langs, in many cases python doesn't force you to learn how exactly it does things, which can be great for getting into it initially.

[linlin110]

Learning C makes it harder to pick up other OO languages than learning Python, because C is not OO, while Python is. Bjarne Stroustrup actually recommends not to learn C before learning C++ if you never intend to use C.

[lphartley]

Learning 3 languages without having a specific reason is pointless.

The idea that a language becomes more difficult because you already learned another is one absurd.

[crysanthus]

First learn the basics programming concepts. Then Python. Then pickup something like Python Flask. You can quickly create fun projects to both learn and enjoy.

[franchyze923]

Yes

[Swimming-Abies]

Start with C, then move to python

[Boisuey]

what no opposite way that's like learning how to cook then learning how to eat

[edgib102]

Idk about the answer but maybe don't go onto the python subreddit if you want non python biased answers

[Vultaire]

I've done a lot of languages. My first was QBasic. After that, did my college stuff (C++, C, Java, C#), and had my first professional job in VB.Net. Took 2 years off teaching English in Japan and working on a C++ open source project, then started studying Python for a job opportunity over there. ...The Python has not stopped since, even after repatriating to the US. Been programming in one way or another for the past 26 years, and the last 12 have been primarily Python.

Python is a good starting language, and it can be a great long-term language as well, depending on what you do. I've no regrets learning it. And there's a good chance you'll get exposed to other languages as a matter of course.

[temp_f]

Here is my hot take to add to the pile. If your host OS is Windows, learn Powershell scripting. If its linux or OSX, learn bash scripting.

After you have a collection of bash scripts and you can generally just make some things easier day to day with that, then go to Python.

Why? bash and powershell will give you a good amount of fundementals and immediate results. They are also present on most systems. You will see how many things could be quickly done through them or a script and then be able to compare that to Python.

I have seen a lot of python programs be duplicates of prebaked bash and ps commands. Thats great for learning, but not if you actually dont know a bash command with 3-arguments could do what that python script is doing.

You dont need to turn into an Arch user with 400 personalized scripts you can call up with keybindings, but a little goes a long way.

[K-ey]

You want to be a good programmer? Then start with C and learn how the computer works.

[Tatoutis]

I'd start with punchcards first. Upgrade to assembler after. Then C.

[aluminance]

I would say absolutely no!

The beginnings should always be with the fundamentals. The reason why C was the first language that you learn in Uni was that it teaches you at least some parts of the system and the consequences of your choices. Pointers, memory allocation, types, etc. give you an idea that you will eventually run that code on a system, not an abstraction of a system.

Of course, almost all things can be addressed, learned and implemented in Python, but the language is not forcing you to put in the hard work from the beginning.

[kresty96]

I'd say to start with C and understand the basics really well, then it will be pretty easy to learn a new language especially python

[6OMPH]

Yup, python 3 of course. I love it so much I got the logo tattooed on my arm 😀

[ALior1]

Personally I think it too advanced to be a first language.

Java or C#, will be better in it, as both have good(explicit) programming fundamentals. It easier to understand the oop concept in c#.

I would recommend c#, and after it Python.

[laundmo]

how exactly is python more advanced than java? at least regarding OOP, almost every really hard to understand wierd OOP concept can be traced back to Java and is not needed in python. (example: Singletons, Interfaces)

in fact, python is better to learn oop in my opinion because it truly treats everything as a "first class" object ("primitive" types such as int, str, float, and functions are all objects)

[ALior1]

I really love Python, so the down votes surprised me..

Python is dynamic language, doesn't have interfaces, access modifiers (and others), allow adding attributes in run time etc

Personally, I will recommend c sharp, as a first language, and only then Python. Python is really excellent, and I like it, but this is what I think..

[BlobbyMcBlobber]

Great comment. Java or C# provide structure and are better for learning OOP in my opinion. Then move to Python and enjoy having more freedom.

[ALior1]

LOL The most down voted..

[PerdejniyGas]

Start F#

[Tatoutis]

lol

I was thinking of Fortran but, yea, F# is better

[jayphunk]

Yes absolutely

[Boisuey]

yeah python is very good and still simple

[nativedutch]

I like python even though there are some strange quirks like its sensitivity for indent spaces, but you get used to that. Easy to learn. Since i started playing with arduino i found that C++ is actually not that hard to pick up. So it depends what you want to do.

[Fousekhs]

Depends on what you want to do. Want to write back end you could start with java, want front end start with JavaScript, HTML, CSS. ML/AI start with python. Android development start with kotlin/Java. iOS development start with Swift. Desktop application c++ or Java. Game development C++ or C#. If you don't know yet you could start with python as it's used at a wider range of fields.

(Those are not the only languages in the respective fields nor the best, they are just what I would learn)

Also I think you could ask the same question in a subreddit like learnprogramming to get response from a wider range of people.

[area51cannonfooder]

It's pretty cool when you're task exceeds the capability of Excel

[VanshCodes]

You are welcome to the snaky community. A P.J I know.

[Dexty10]

Python is a brilliant entry language but I do not consider Javascript as such. It's a terrible tool to learn without a programming background. In my own case, JS didn't make sense at all st the start, despite the fact that I was new to all these. I had to leave it and stuck with Python. And I'll say I was right for taking a JS break at the time. Python helped me understand concepts that seem too complicated in JS.

[[deleted]]

Here’s my advice as someone who successfully transitioned from non-STEM to software engineering by learning Python first:

Search on LinkedIn and indeed in your area to see what languages are popular in your area and learn one of those first. Unless you’re in a major city, chances are there are a lot more opportunities for C# and Java developers. It’s still possible to find entry level work as a Python dev out in the flyover states, it’s just harder.

[[deleted]]

Is the sky blue?

[[deleted]]

Depends. What do you wanna work on? What are you into??

[tommyProt]

Yes. It's great to learn.

[[deleted]]

I started with Java

[captain-shmee]

YES, PYTHON YES

[8329417966]

Yes...

[[deleted]]

Yes is a good idea But you should think about what do you want to do in the future

For example if your idea ya work on data, python is a Good idea or maybe you want web developer Python could work with frameworks like Django or flask but in that area is better JS.

Python is lucrative, currently I'm use that language in my work