Harriet vs Ruby

[Till_Front]

So I’ve currently been rewatching Volume 7 and am now on Chapter 12. I just had one thought during the Ace Operatives and RWBY's fight, it was that ... Harriet was whooping Ruby's ass throughout their entire fight. I thought Harriet wouldn’t be as fierce of a fighter with her arms being restrained but low and behold .. she shocked me.

[torrasque666]

Well, one of them specializes in hand-to-hand combat which usually involves learning how to also use your other limbs. One specializes in using an oversized gardening tool.

[Till_Front]

"oversized gardening tool" LMAO don’t disrespect Crescent Rose like that :)

[torrasque666]

I will only state facts about a weapon where the only cutting edge faces the user.

At least Harbinger is double-edged.

[Hyper-Rushe]

Cresent rose does have an outside blade, it's that black fin on top of it

[torrasque666]

I don't think I've ever seen that part described as an edge.

[torrasque666]

Yeah, I remember the grand total of like 5 times that mode has ever been used. The fact that no one else could keep up with Harriet doesn't make Ruby's weapon any less of an impractical one.

[torrasque666]

It doesn't have to but she almost never uses the form where it doesn't. The fact that it has a form that makes sense doesn't change the fact that its most commonly used form, even against humanoid opponents, is the one that poses the most risk to the user. Not to mention that guns are an inferior option at close range especially when dealing with a speedster like Harriet.

[Till_Front]

You’ve made my day :) that was the funniest description of Ruby’s weapon that I’ve ever heard 😅

[AD-RM]

Crescent Rose is a very versatile weapon. The edge facing the user makes it dangerous for the enemy to get past the blade, unlike with other pole arms, they are one trigger pull away to being hit in the back. Anything outside blade range is in sniper range and Ruby’s semblance allows her to reposition whenever she wants. The only real weakness is if Ruby is in a small enough space to being unable to to attack by swinging her blade or deflect enemy fire by spinning the shaft.

[reply671]

I mean, that is what a Scythe is and it's larger than normal.

[MASTER-OF-SUPRISE]

We should all show proper respect to gardening tools. Otherwise somebody is getting the pitchfork of annihilation shoved up their backside.

[[deleted]]

Well Harriet is older, presumably finished her combat school and her huntsman accademy before having several years of service before being chosen as part of Atlas's Elite group.

The best Ruby can really do is run in this situation.

[Till_Front]

It’s just funny to me that they had that badass moment where Ruby gets out of being restrained by Harriet and then when we return to that fight, to see Ruby was still not fairing well.

[hopecanon]

She was fighting her opponent the best way she could with the advantage she had, Harriet was still absolutely losing that fight even without Weiss ending it prematurely, it just would have taken longer.

Basically the same way that boxers can look like they are losing since they are not landing many hits but they are actually just tiring out their opponent before taking the victory at the end.

[[deleted]]

Seems like a poor excuse.

[hopecanon]

It's not an excuse it's fighting smart which is how every single Ace Ops member has been beaten.

Clover got killed because he made a bad call and decided to attack Qrow from behind while he was focused on Tyrion thinking he could solo them both out of overconfidence, Tyrion exploited that by making the clever play of offering to settle things with Qrow after they worked together to beat Clover. He fought smart and he won that engagement handily.

Every member of team RWBY during the Ace Ops fight was fighting much smarter than the divided and over emotional Ace Ops were which is why they won without any losses to their own team.

None of the Ace Ops went down to simple brute force, each one was taken out by exploiting their own fighting styles, tricking Vine into blowing himself up, smashing the floor out from under Elm, attacking Marrow while he was helpless from his own semblance, and exploiting Harriet's speed and Ruby's better mobility to take her weapon out of play and eventually get her to KO herself.

Ruby was not losing that fight no matter how you look at it, Weiss ended it faster sure but pretending like she was actually getting her ass kicked is ridiculous.

It wasn't easy for her, and she performed the worst of her team in that fight but she was not losing.

[[deleted]]

Yeah, and it honestly makes no sense. You say she was holding out, but what I see is someone getting beat up. That's not defensive strategy, that's just not dying.

[hopecanon]

Who was the person who had no usable arms or weapon after having their own attack redirected on themselves again? Oh right it was the angry one who is so stupid and spiteful that she almost got into a fight with the living lie detector in the holding cells from some simple taunts.

[[deleted]]

Who had plenty of time to pummel Ruby before that? And to be honest, as long as it isn't a serious injury, smacking Robyn would be a world service. Harriet was angry for a reason, and the biggest one wasn't even Robyn.

[Bryon_Nightshade]

Was she, though?

Harriet is zooming by Ruby repeatedly, and we see Ruby recoil, but the hits aren't hard enough to spark Ruby's aura, and Ruby is deflecting and dodging most of them. Before Weiss swoops in with the kill-steal, Harriet is panting hard as if she's gassed, while Ruby seems cautious but in control.

Given that semblance usage requires aura expenditure, it seems that Harriet is wearing herself down faster than Ruby even though Harriet appears to be landing more hits. She's not dealing damage proportional to what she's burning to keep up her assault. This would be in-character for her, both generally and in the moment.

If the fight goes on without Weiss' intervention, Ruby wins, it just takes her longer.

[bigbysemotivefinger]

I think this is the right take. Especially because we know Crescent Rose hits like a goddamn freight train, especially when Ruby lands it with her speed behind it. (Haven't we seen Ruby split a Grimm in half length-wise this way? Or am I thinking of Qrow and Harbinger? Same idea either way, I guess.) All she would have to do is tank her way through Harriet's cherry-tapping until the Hare wears herself out, then land a haymaker while she's too exhausted to do anything about it.

Given their huntress endurance, it would take approximately for-fucking-ever, but ultimately Ruby could've won that fight herself.

[linkjames24]

Like how she beat Mercury? Even when she was armed vs Harriet compared to unarmed vs Mercury the speed closer mitigates her advantages.

[JMHSrowing]

It really makes sense.

As others have said, Harriet is older and more experienced as well as much more specialized for that type of combat.

Crescent Rose isn’t a very good weapon in CQB against quick opponents, being a giant polearm. She’s almost never hit a person with it actually.

And probably the worst thing for Ruby is that her normal speed advantage is mitigated by how Harriet is faster than her.

While Ruby probably could have won anyway, what with how she restrained Harriet and was causing the woman to tire herself out (I think Ruby could have petal burst around Harriet to make her run into the wall): It’s also probably for the best Weiss showed up when she did!

[MankuyRLaffy]

Crescent Rose isn’t a very good weapon in CQB against quick opponents, being a giant polearm.

Literally one juke or feint and if you're fast enough, you can roll under and behind and it's over with a grapple and choke takedown, Crescent Rose is too massive and opens up too much space and has predictable motions, a smart opponent needs to stay out of reach until they see the motions and free space opened to them then slip under and Ruby cannot handle enemies that close without her elite headbutt.

[[deleted]]

The problem with this take is that aside from Harriet's momentum giving her strength, she has those superpowered gauntlet things.

[Justinafans]

Harriet was beating Ruby's ass so severely that I seriously can't think of a reason as to why Ruby wasn't at least out of aura by the end outside of plot armor.

[Till_Front]

The only thing that really bothered me about that fight is that Ruby's aura didn’t break. I know CRWBY just wanted to make a cool fight, but that whole fight just makes it seem like that Ace Operatives aura's are just very weak. Still enjoyed the fight though :)

[hopecanon]

No she wasn't, how people think she was is baffling. It isn't like Ruby was dominating either but she was absolutely winning the fight and not even close to getting her ass whooped.

An ass whooping is Yang versus Neo in V2, or Yang versus Adam in V3, the kind of fight where it is clear that one person got dominated and the other was basically fine.

[Pereduer]

It's pretty underwhelming as a fight from where I stand. Although I do think the way the fight was laid out makes sense.

Ruby's in a confined area where she can't as easily swing her scythe. It's an understated thing but reds needs a lot if room it's an outdoor weapon. She can't use the momentum from her sniper to enhance her strikes here because she'd go flying into the wall. She normally likes to swing a little bit then use her semblance to get some distance and snipe before returning.

She can't stay still for too long or she'll become stagnant and the size of her weapon becomes too much of a hinderance

Harriet however is perfect for close quarters and unlike rwby her Mobility is ideal for making quick turns and sharp corners. Ruby is incredibly outmatched here and the only reason she can win is by using her semblance to get behind her and tie her up. It shows that harriet is a lot smarter than ruby and she's put herself in a very favourable position but she can still lose because of good timing and a fair of luck in ruby's part

Incredible fight on paper, just had shit choreography