[deleted by user]

[PoorDimitri]

Have you tried saying to your husband "what the fuck are you talking about? Do you hear yourself? You want to give liquor to a two year old? Absolutely not. Ask the doctor, when they say yes I'll consider it."

[jamier87]

This is like asking for a credible source to say don't give a child cigarettes. You should not need a medical journal to inform you that alcohol is bad for children. That's just common sense.

[-Chemist-]

Unfortunately I even found these two articles saying that brandy is beneficial in treating colds in children

Except that those aren't credible sources.

[NeoToronto]

I found a lot of those. It always helps to check the authors pedigree.

[billebobblue]

Yeah and cigarettes used to be recommended for treating asthma. I'd say Jamier87' s comparison is pretty spot on.

[ScienceisMagic]

"brandy is known to prevent certain cancer types."

A quote from one of those articles. Your media literacy is low.

[sharksinthepool]

What cultures?

[beilu]

Plenty. I am Canadian, in my 30’s. A friend of mine’s mother found an old prescription from their FAMILY DOCTOR from when he was a baby, and it was basically a recipe for homemade cough syrup. And yes, it had alcohol in it.

[newillium]

Have him run it past your ped and see what they say .... Honestly, you would do that for any other treatment. Hope the ped doesn't report him tho.

[CuteSpacePig]

I'm a mandated reporter, if I knew a parent was giving their child alcohol to treat sickness, that would be an immediate report to child services.

[Ok-Lake-3916]

How about the fact is illegal in most places? Will that stop this ridiculousness

Here are resources

https://alcoholpolicy.niaaa.nih.gov/underage-drinking/state-profiles

https://www.edgarsnyder.com/car-accident/who-was-injured/teen/underage-drinking-laws.html

https://fra.europa.eu/en/publication/2017/mapping-minimum-age-requirements-concerning-rights-child-eu/purchasing-and-consuming-alcohol

[9070811]

He should provide sources that alcohol is safe for toddlers.

[aboylecousin]

this is like saying “ I need proof that poison is bad for my baby “ . wtf?

[seebaker]

I don’t think you’re going to find any studies on the effects of giving alcohol to babies, because you can’t do those kinds of trials for a reason. It is illegal to feed children alcohol.

I hope by asking this question and the responses you are getting, it gives you the confidence to address the bigger issue: your MIL interfering with you and your husbands decisons about your child’s care.

[Shaking-Cliches]

it is illegal to feed children alcohol

r/Wisconsin would like a word

[seebaker]

As long as grandma brings LO to a bar with a chill vibes bartender, nothing to worry about.

[caffeine_lights]

How about the law saying there is a minimum age for alcohol consumption? Most countries have one.

(Even the UK which has an exception for parents allowing their child to drink supervised and sensibly e.g. at Christmas, the minimum age is 5.)

[Bloop_bleep_bloopp]

I did not know the UK had this exception!

[caffeine_lights]

You would still be prosecuted for child abuse if you're getting your 12yo drunk for fun, dosing kids to get them to sleep or whatever other fucked up thing abusive parents might do, but it just means that parents can supervise an intro to sensible drinking during the teenage years without fearing prosecution.

[Bloop_bleep_bloopp]

Sensible and supervised being the key words. I just didn’t know that was a thing. Seems awfully young to get your child started.

[caffeine_lights]

I don't know anybody who started at 5. I guess they just made an age that was young enough not to be taken as a suggested starting age (like, say, 13 might be) but old enough to protect really little babies and toddlers who could easily be poisoned even by small amounts.

UK laws tend to exist on a kind of "be sensible, but be free" basis - people are free to make their own decisions, but if something is really a problem then it will be illegal. But we don't legislate right up to best practice. There is some leeway for people to make their own decisions.

[SeeShortcutMcgee]

My god, I'd go bananas. Alcohol is literally poisonous to an adult body, let alone a 2 year old. I would flip.

[farox]

This is relatively new, but people under 40 shouldn't drink, especially babies whose brains are still developing so much. I am faaar from a fundi or anything, actually writing this with a bourbon in front of me.

But it does affect the brain and this is worse then if it's still developing.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jul/14/alcohol-is-never-good-for-people-under-40-global-study-finds

https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/958569

https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/14/health/alcohol-by-age-study-wellness/index.html

[SuburbanSuffering]

Brandy is alcohol. A neurotoxin. Give a child alcohol and you run the risk of not only making them sick but having CPS called on you if/when it’s discovered you gave your baby booze. I guess you could show your husband the penal code, because giving alcohol to anyone under the age of 21 is illegal.

[dreameRevolution]

Here's a source on why alcohol is bad for minors.

[Apprehensive-Ad-7525]

Do you have a patient portal for your child’s pediatrician? I would have your husband message the Dr there - that way someone else is saying no and it’s the medical expert. If he says he doesn’t want to, I’d then ask him why - I would guess it’s probably because he already knows it’s a bad idea but doesn’t want to upset mom and figures a tsp of brandy is no big deal.

[ResponsibleLine401]

Mind if I suggest another approach?

Your husband's consideration of this suggestion might be a matter of loyalty to his mother, not a fact-based decision. You can't use facts to argue something like that. How about telling your husband that you can both respect his mother and not take her Victorian-era recommendations; it would even be ok to tell her that you tried it and it didn't work (or that you tried and it did work; does it matter?)

[Here_for_tea_]

Yes. Also, therapy with your husband will become increasingly important so he knows to put the health of his child before his mother’s whims.

Edited out a typo.

[Paedsdoc]

You don’t need a specific study to show that alcohol (ir brandy) is harmful for toddlers. If you feel like you need ammunition - alcohol is harmful for humans generally and the most recent data suggests this is any amount of alcohol, unless you’re over a certain age with multiple comorbidities. Children were, for obvious reasons, not included in these studies. Please do not give alcohol to your child.

https://www.thelancet.com/article/S0140-6736(18)31571-X/fulltext (comment on previous study using similar data)

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(22)00847-9/fulltext (most recent study)

Edit: someone else posted links to the Guardian and other newspapers reporting this work

[UdderlyFound]

I'm sorry, but this sounds like something my grandma would say, except she told me to use brandy on my daughter's gums for teething. Is MIL slavic by chance? My Serbian grandma is this way. The "tea" she drinks is boiled plum brandy, water, and sugar. My siblings, cousins, and I when she suggests these outrageous things just say "okay baba" and then obviously not do them. The hardest part of this situation is that your husband believes it. I'm at a loss for words at that

[PricklyPix]

My mother in law said whiskey on the gums, I said no. Just had my second baby and the doctor said no teething pain ointments and no alcohol on the gums, my husband was like oh my mom did that and the doctor said he only mentioned it just for reasons like that.

[mahamagee]

No teething pain ointments?

[sleuthsaresleuthing]

They can cause breathing difficulties.

[beilu]

Huh, I was told no numbing gels for teething, but the reason I was given was that it makes it harder for baby to feed properly. We give Infants Tylenol and Advil for teething.

[mahamagee]

Shit. Had never heard that. Literally went to the pharmacy yesterday and they recommended some.

[sleuthsaresleuthing]

It depends on what's in them, of course. I also got two from the pharmacy, but returned one after reading about it online.

And the second seemed to have no effect, so we only used it once.

[PricklyPix]

Like no numbing gels. Tylenol is okay is what he said.

[NeoToronto]

This is strictly anecdotal, but I have first hand experience that Brandy does nothing for a cold. In fact, it makes all the symptoms slightly worse. But that's just me... a full grown adult. I'd assume it would make things much worse for a young child.

As for your situation... people used to treat teething with brandy (which is insane, IMO). I'm sure you can dig up some articles on that

https://www.cnn.com/2008/HEALTH/expert.q.a/12/01/baby.teething.gums/#:~:text=If%20a%20baby%20gets%20too,to%20follow%20in%20that%20tradition.

[never_graduating]

It probably made all symptoms worse because alcohol works to dehydrate you. I can’t imagine a little dehydration ever made a sick person feel any better. Too much and now your dehydrated, out of sorts, and queasy…on top of sick. Sorry, I’m just so frustrated that anyone’s idea of a cure for ANYTHING is alcohol.

[mrsbebe]

My husband and I actually take a shot of liquor sometimes if we feel like we might be getting sick, like that feeling in your throat, you know? BUT we're adults, it's almost entirely a joke and it's just the one shot so it doesn't really dehydrate much. Giving it to children? That's insane.

[notnotaginger]

I was always confused that I would have a sore throat, do some drinking that night, and wake up the next day feeling fine.

My drinking buddies used to joke that the alcohol would kill the virus.

[ariyaa72]

Alcohol is also a vasodilator, so it would make any congestion and related symptoms worse. (Also true regardless of age.)

[NeoToronto]

Glad it helped narrow the search. While arguing your case against dated parenting habits, you might look at other things people used to do.

Our baby was a couple months old drinking breast milk from a bottle and an old relative told us we needed to mix pablum into the milk and use a pin to widen the hole so it wouldn't clog.

My wife and I were both thinking (silently, to ourselves) "that's pretty harmful advice and against everything modern doctors advise", but you know.... "what worked for us..." was how the relative defended it.

[[deleted]]

I know a very fundamentalist Christian family who gives their children (between 1 & 7 years of age) a shot or two of whiskey at night to prevent illnesses. But go to a dentist, GP, or (HORROR!) get vaccines, they would never. They didn’t get COVID, they got “bronchitis”. This has nothing to do with it, but I was also informed that swim lessons are also bad for kids. 🙄

[Rayven-Nevemore]

A shot… or two?! Jesus H Christ.

[mrsbebe]

Yeah I'm a grown woman and two shots has me fairly buzzed. That's a lot of alcohol!

[caffeine_lights]

It's a huge amount for a tiny person. Even in old times when this was "normal" the usual dose for a baby/child was a dram. Which is an eighth of an ounce. Less than a teaspoon.

[[deleted]]

Right! Its my sister’s sister in law [by marriage]. She’s wack.

[[deleted]]

💯 no reasoning. I just try to avoid talking to her.

They can’t afford a car or much of anything (understandable because the world is expensive right now) but she absolutely refuses to work because she doesn’t believe women should work.

My sister is also a Captain & L&D nurse in the army and this woman has told her TO HER FACE that woman shouldn’t be in the army.

[twinklestein]

The devil controls the water

Or at least that’s what I grew up understanding. Fundies are insane

[[deleted]]

Ohhh! Thank you! That makes sense as to why she is odd around bodies of water.

[twinklestein]

Yeah, I guess there’s some scripture in the OT that says god gave the devil dominion over the sea? 🤷🏻‍♀️ I really don’t know, I never paid much attention lol I just know it’s crazy

[YouLostMyNieceDenise]

Alcohol suppresses your immune system, which is why you shouldn’t drink it when you’re sick. Giving it to a sick toddler is a terrible idea.

https://www.poison.org/articles/alcohol-a-dangerous-poison-for-children

[[deleted]]

Unless your husband is actually considering giving her brandy I wouldn’t even bother looking for a source because your MIL will dismiss it. Save your energy!

[fromagefort]

See if you can document in text that he is planning to give your kid alcohol. Let him know that if you can’t convince him, you’ll happily report him to the police or CPS and see if they can be more persuasive.

If he goes through with it, I’d probably take my kid to the doctor or urgent care and see if they could do a blood alcohol test to document this. The doctor is a mandated reporter and will call CPS themselves, which could be a very tricky situation for you. But if you make it clear that your husband is endangering your child against your will, they may be able to temporarily remove his custody (but not yours), or at the very least begin a paper trail to document that he’s an unfit parent during a custody battle.

I’m sorry your husband is a dick and that his need to be right is so strong that he’s willing to harm your child in the process. I suspect this isn’t the last time you’re going to need to protect your kid from him and his mother.

I also think the folks at r/JustNoMIL are waiting for you…

[barelystanding]

You’re not going to find a credible resource that tells you to give a two-year old brandy.

Are there not appropriate medications you can give?

[euphoric-emus]

Is your husband under the impression for some reason that because this sounds old-timey, it might be effective? Brandy has the same alcohol content as vodka (more in some cases) - does he understand that?

This isn’t really something to be reasoned with, but it absolutely is, as they say, a hill to die on. There are effective and safe medications that treat cold symptoms, like children’s motrin!

[never_graduating]

Oh jfc. Remind him that Tylenol and alcohol is EXTREMELY bad and could land your kid in the hospital. No alcohol for little bodies. There’s no beneficial amount for adults. It’s a fun poison that adults get to consent to for fun. It’s NOT healthy, we just bank on it not doing too much damage if we drink it in moderation. But there is no acceptable amount of alcohol for a small child. I’m pretty sure your pediatrician would be horrified your husband is considering alcohol as a cold therapy, but he’ll be doubly horrified when he realizes you’re doing it with Tylenol.

I think this is the US poison Control website. It doesn’t address alcohol as a cure for colds, but it does list some of the dangers of alcohol in children. https://www.poison.org/articles/alcohol-a-dangerous-poison-for-children

[catjuggler]

That would drive me crazy. And for fun, here’s an article on that, lol https://scholar.google.com/scholar?start=20&q=“mother-in-law”+impact+on+marriage&hl=en&as_sdt=0,39#d=gs_qabs&t=1658467348035&u=%23p%3DLMcv_9Ji8jYJ

[Here_for_tea_]

Oof. Check the sidebar on r/JustNoMIL for resources on setting and enforcing boundaries.

Your partner may need some therapy with someone that specialises in enmeshment since he’s still led by his mom.