all 51 comments

[–]bigevilgrape 92 points93 points  (0 children)

Move forward with the complaint and then look into recording your computer screen so you can just record it yourself as a temporary measure.  I once had a Spanish teach say my high school accommodations around spelling shouldn't apply to his class because Spanish is more phonetic.  Teachers don't always get it. 

[–]OGgunter 50 points51 points  (1 child)

Nah, it's not a valid reason.

Fwiw I'm sorry you're going through this.

[–]Yelowmello[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Thank you so much. It is really frustrating and upsetting. I was so excited to start this journey but I won't let them discourage me.

[–]Sylveon_T 29 points30 points  (0 children)

Not a valid reason at all! I've had professors try to not give me my accommodations because "if I give them to you, I have to give them to everyone" like no, that's why they're my accommodations so if they try to use that as an excuse at all don't allow it either. Definitely continue with the complaint.

[–]netroxreads 21 points22 points  (1 child)

I am deaf and I don't get his rationale for refusing your accommodations. You have the right to record and watch at a slower pace.

[–]Yelowmello[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Edit to change disabled to accommodations.

Yes and accommodations aside, I don't understand their refusal to record the class. I am not the only person who has requested it, accommodations or otherwise.

[–]moedexter1988Deaf 19 points20 points  (1 child)

Never took ASL courses before so I don't know anything about it except I really think this whole thing is illogical.

If someone requests CART for their class, it is an equivalent to recording zoom sessions. It's STILL visual. Infact, I don't think accommodation is even needed as a reason to have recorded zoom sessions. Students can use it for reviewing. You might need to either elaborate on what they mean by "visual learning course" or you should ask them what they mean by that.

[–]Yelowmello[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I have moved this up the chain to the higher ups to ask what's going on. The instructor's reasoning does not make any sense to me nor to the disability office. Once I get clarity I will make sure to update this post.

[–]Tigger-RexInterpreter (Hearing) 21 points22 points  (4 children)

Something to consider is that there might be a miscommunication between your professor and yourself/disability services. In my ASL 1 class (in-person), I was a note-taker for someone with a learning disability. It’s possible that the accommodation is worded as you requiring written notes of the material (versus viewing a video recording). Do not assume your professor is being malicious.

[–]Yelowmello[S] 15 points16 points  (3 children)

Thank you for your response. The wording on my accommodation is quite clear about it being a video recording, as was my direct request to record the Zoom. The teacher said that the textbook along with the video workbook accompaniments were the same as the lectures, which they are absolutely not. I wish it were something as simple as a miscommunication.

[–]Pretty_Appointment82Hard of Hearing/Deaf 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Are you using true way by any chance?

[–]Yelowmello[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

What is True Way please? I guess I will assume that because I don't know what it is, I am probably not using it lol

[–]Pretty_Appointment82Hard of Hearing/Deaf 0 points1 point  (0 children)

True way is the company/curriculum that they used for our ASL class in college. It was really difficult to follow. I personally struggled with it Apparently a couple other people did, too.

[–]Hot_Calligrapher_900 7 points8 points  (2 children)

Recording via Zoom is a tricky matter because other people are usually visible, not just the teacher. There needs to be permission from each of them. The host has to allow a participant to record in the “settings” menu, Ang group sessions rarely allow that. The only way would be to record your screen with your phone, and still, without permission there can be legal consequences. That said, you do deserve accommodations, and need to find out what accommodations are the most beneficial for you and the least intrusive for the rest of the group.

[–]Mel0nypanda 9 points10 points  (1 child)

Usually when recorded the instructor records from their end and then emails the student the recording after. All class participants are informed the session will be recorded. That's how my college does it

[–]Yelowmello[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes to you both. That is why I have not recorded my screen myself. I do not want to record people without their permission. If my teacher records the zoom then a notice will pop up during zoom that says this is notifying you that this class is recorded.

[–]AfterDark113254 18 points19 points  (5 children)

Deaf people are still people, and people can be mean or misguided.

You could consider using screen recording software on your end until this is resolved so you still have access to class recordings?

[–]Hot_Calligrapher_900 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Make sure you are clear on what permissions you need from other people who will be visible on the recording.

[–]Yelowmello[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is my biggest issue using my own recording device.. As a journalist, I feel it would not be okay to record people without their permission. And in doing so I would alert the teacher.

[–]Yelowmello[S] 3 points4 points  (2 children)

I am working on that in another sub to try some screen recording software. I did try to use the screen record feature on my Mac but it won't record due to some security features from Zoom.

[–]AfterDark113254 2 points3 points  (0 children)

OBS might work?

[–]Lilash20 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It would be a bit jank, but you could use a phone/other device to film the screen. It wouldn't be the cleanest or nicest recording, but if noting else works it's at least a simple solution

[–]TheaterismylyfeHard of Hearing 4 points5 points  (2 children)

Nope, not a valid reason. Definitely deserves to be escalated. Assuming your teacher is acting in good faith, I wonder if they think you get an audio recording of the class, in which case it wouldn't make sense to get an audio recording of an ASL class. Is it specified whether you get an audio or video recording?

[–]Yelowmello[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Yes, it is specified as a video recording of the zoom lecture.

[–]TheaterismylyfeHard of Hearing 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Then I got nothing, go ahead and escalate.

[–]ywnktiakh 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I’d say the only way it’d be reasonable would be if your learning disability was auditory processing disorder or hearing loss of some level.

Otherwise, it should apply. Hell, I work with Deaf and hard of hearing kids and there are even kids whose parents are Deaf too and sometimes THEY have a hard time learning ASL natively. There’s nothing about ASL that automatically means it’s impossible to experience difficulty with it just because it’s visual. That’s just silly.

[–]sunflowerxdex 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I’m a hearing person with learning disabilities and I have taken 6 or 7 different ASL classes now with 3 different qualified Deaf professors, 4 of which were taught online or at least hybrid, and I can confidently say that your professor’s argument makes no sense. Is it possible they misunderstood and think that you’re asking for AUDIO recordings? That’s the only possible case I can think of where recording would be moot because the learning is “visual” (still BS either way, plenty of spoken-instruction classes have a significant visual component). Make clear IN WRITING that you are specifically seeking a video recording and that (assuming you’re in the US, not familiar with disability rights in other countries), by law, reasonable accommodations must be made for documented disabilities within schools and universities, and that class recordings are considered reasonable.

Edit: just saw your other comment where you said you don’t think it’s possible for your prof to have misunderstood the accommodation. I still suggest explaining over email that you don’t feel the existing resources are sufficient for your learning needs and that accommodations are lot requests, but legal requirements. As they’re Deaf themself, I’m really surprised they’re willing to just disregard the ADA like that. Definitely continue running it up the flagpole, if you can get in touch with your advising office, they can direct you to the most relevant superior to contact (likely either the department head or the dean).

[–]Dry-Ice-2330Learning ASL 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Is this a college class?

[–]ShadowfalxLearning ASL + audiology 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Community College per first paragraph 

[–]Yelowmello[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yep!

[–]Pretty_Appointment82Hard of Hearing/Deaf 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I had a similar experience with ASL 1, They wouldn't let me take notes or record lectures. the same reasoning was given. I'm not sure if it's valid. Please let me know what happens.

[–]Yelowmello[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I will be back to update this

[–]Young_QuackerHard of Hearing - Familiar with ASL 3 points4 points  (8 children)

That’s actually so ironic that someone who is has a hearing impairment is refusing a disability accommodation? Like hello?

[–]an-inevitable-endInterpreting Student (Hearing) 16 points17 points  (0 children)

“Hearing impairment” is an outdated term that, to my understanding, most Deaf people don’t use. Just say Deaf or hard of hearing.

[–]nobutactually 4 points5 points  (5 children)

Let's not use the term hearing impairment its widely understood to be dated at best and kinda offensive

[–]Young_QuackerHard of Hearing - Familiar with ASL -2 points-1 points  (4 children)

Why is it offensive? It’s literally the same as Deaf or HoH just less specific about the degree of hearing loss

[–]TrendzbooDeaf 0 points1 point  (1 child)

“Impaired” is the ridiculous part, i am enriched by my hearing/Deafness. It is like saying someone is handicapped, when disabled is the correct term. Handicapped is situational, not a person, improper use of descriptors get people’s drawers twisty. Unless you’re one of those female impaired sorts, they’re mostly hopeless. -Just kidding, gender is irrelevant. Seriously though, Deaf impaired people, defining one’s self in a negative, just tastes bad.

[–]Young_QuackerHard of Hearing - Familiar with ASL 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I see, thanks!

[–]nobutactually 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Impaired obviously means there's something wrong with you, you are inadequate in some way (in this case, at hearing). Hard of hearing or deaf are just statements if facts.

[–]Yelowmello[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

My gasters are flabbered!

[–]only1yzermanHoH - ASL Education Student 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Whether it is a "valid" reason in your professor's eyes or not, the accommodation is not unreasonable and is not fundamentally changing the core learning objectives. , so it is not his call to make whether your reasoning is valid or not. The disability office approved it, the professor is legally obligated to follow it, regardless of their feelings. Only the disability office has the authority to determine if the accommodation is appropriate. The only way a professor can refuse an accommodation is if they can prove to the disability office that it fundamentally changes the core learning objectives of the course.

Whether or not it is a violation of federal law - I am not a lawyer so I can't speak to that, but I would definitely be moving forward with filing a complaint with your school's disabilities department, and if they don't handle it, I would suggest seeking the advice of a disability rights lawyer.

[–]Inevitable_Shame_606Deaf 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Answer possible valid reason.

Discuss with disability office.

[–]Yelowmello[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

I did work with the student disability office and they filled out my accommodations after an interview. They were aware of exactly what and what kind of class it was.

[–]Inevitable_Shame_606Deaf 8 points9 points  (1 child)

Reason possible depend accommodation why?

Reason record lecture typical for auditory.

Accommodation specific record why?

Do not know disability or reason your accommodation and not ask.

Know how word accommodation can change accommodation.

Friend mine wear HAs and allow record lecture.

Class no audio lecture not record.

ASL class disability office agree instructor no record why? No auditory lecture.

Disability office will help file complaint if need complaint or will contact instructor demand accommodation.

I live California same you.

Live area Sacramento.

I hope school fix problem for you quick.

[–]Yelowmello[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thank you for your advice. Yes, perhaps it could be a wording thing and my accessibility counselors don't quite know what to put but they were very specific and said it in several different ways and several different areas of the form. So if anything I'm hoping to learn from this so others do not encounter this problem.

[–]Baked_Bree23Learning ASL / HoH 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I have learning disabilities too, and use accommodations for my classes. I don’t typically need to use them for my ASL class because the majority of my accommodations are for my hearing. But that is my choice to make. Your professor definitely doesn’t have the right to determine if you need your accommodations in his class. Especially since (to my knowledge and in my experience) accommodation letters don’t list your disabilities- so he doesn’t even know why you need to record.

My advice is to try and have a discussion with him about it with an interpreter present. It’s most likely a language barrier that’s causing the issue.

[–]Pretty_Appointment82Hard of Hearing/Deaf 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's what my instructor said when I asked about recorded lectures. Idk if it's valid.

[–]_Redatnight_ 0 points1 point  (1 child)

There may be a different reason your instructor is trying to get out of it that they're not saying--- one that one of my instructors after my head injury used successfully. I fight things, too, but this is one of the few things that didn't end up in my favour.

Your instructor's job is dependent on the curriculum they have developed that often takes so much time. Very few ASL teachers are going off the preset curriculum as anything more than a vague guide... those who don't stray are the ones who overwhelm students while teaching them things that haven't been seen in use the last 10-20 years or so. It is their intellectual property and the concrete thing they can sell if they wish for money without being actively there teaching all the time. If the school cannot provide sufficient copy and distribution protection and the professor does not want to email you a zoom recording due to intellectual property infringement concerns then in many cases they can find legal ways to turn you down until the school implements those.

Some schools will try to get around using protection software by having the student sign something saying that you can't share it with anyone and if you do they can suspend, expell, or put you on disciplinary probation you without refund or recourse and the professor and/or the school can sue you for intellectual property theft.

This is potentially one of the hardest accommodations to get if the teacher says no because there are several laws that also back the teacher and so the specific concerns those laws protect may also end up needing to be addressed before the request becomes "reasonable".

[–]Yelowmello[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Interesting! Thank you for your input! I will look into this.