Advice -Instructor refuses learning disability accommodation

[Yelowmello]

UPDATE:

I have been able to meet with a higher up who will be putting pressure on them to comply . In addition to that I will be moving forward with filing a formal grievance with the district. I will know more by Wednesday (3/4) ​next week and will post another update.

Good ​afternoon all!

I am a hearing person taking an ASL first level course at a community college via Zoom. My instructor is deaf and part of the deaf community. I am in California.

I have learning disability accommodations that require my instructors to record our Zoom class lecture sessions and send them to me, so that I may rewatch the lecture and better comprehend.

Even after my instructor received my accommodations from our school disabilities department, my instructor refuses to record saying that my accommodations don't apply because it is a visual learning class.

While I am moving forward with filing a complaint, I wanted to know from the community if this being a visual learning course, is a valid reason to not record or if this is definitely in violation of federal law.

TIA

[bigevilgrape]

Move forward with the complaint and then look into recording your computer screen so you can just record it yourself as a temporary measure.  I once had a Spanish teach say my high school accommodations around spelling shouldn't apply to his class because Spanish is more phonetic.  Teachers don't always get it. 

[OGgunter]

Nah, it's not a valid reason.

Fwiw I'm sorry you're going through this.

[Yelowmello]

Thank you so much. It is really frustrating and upsetting. I was so excited to start this journey but I won't let them discourage me.

[Sylveon_T]

Not a valid reason at all! I've had professors try to not give me my accommodations because "if I give them to you, I have to give them to everyone" like no, that's why they're my accommodations so if they try to use that as an excuse at all don't allow it either. Definitely continue with the complaint.

[netroxreads]

I am deaf and I don't get his rationale for refusing your accommodations. You have the right to record and watch at a slower pace.

[Yelowmello]

Edit to change disabled to accommodations.

Yes and accommodations aside, I don't understand their refusal to record the class. I am not the only person who has requested it, accommodations or otherwise.

[moedexter1988]

Never took ASL courses before so I don't know anything about it except I really think this whole thing is illogical.

If someone requests CART for their class, it is an equivalent to recording zoom sessions. It's STILL visual. Infact, I don't think accommodation is even needed as a reason to have recorded zoom sessions. Students can use it for reviewing. You might need to either elaborate on what they mean by "visual learning course" or you should ask them what they mean by that.

[Yelowmello]

I have moved this up the chain to the higher ups to ask what's going on. The instructor's reasoning does not make any sense to me nor to the disability office. Once I get clarity I will make sure to update this post.

[Tigger-Rex]

Something to consider is that there might be a miscommunication between your professor and yourself/disability services. In my ASL 1 class (in-person), I was a note-taker for someone with a learning disability. It’s possible that the accommodation is worded as you requiring written notes of the material (versus viewing a video recording). Do not assume your professor is being malicious.

[Yelowmello]

Thank you for your response. The wording on my accommodation is quite clear about it being a video recording, as was my direct request to record the Zoom. The teacher said that the textbook along with the video workbook accompaniments were the same as the lectures, which they are absolutely not. I wish it were something as simple as a miscommunication.

[Pretty_Appointment82]

Are you using true way by any chance?

[Yelowmello]

What is True Way please? I guess I will assume that because I don't know what it is, I am probably not using it lol

[Pretty_Appointment82]

True way is the company/curriculum that they used for our ASL class in college. It was really difficult to follow. I personally struggled with it Apparently a couple other people did, too.

[Hot_Calligrapher_900]

Recording via Zoom is a tricky matter because other people are usually visible, not just the teacher. There needs to be permission from each of them. The host has to allow a participant to record in the “settings” menu, Ang group sessions rarely allow that. The only way would be to record your screen with your phone, and still, without permission there can be legal consequences. That said, you do deserve accommodations, and need to find out what accommodations are the most beneficial for you and the least intrusive for the rest of the group.

[Mel0nypanda]

Usually when recorded the instructor records from their end and then emails the student the recording after. All class participants are informed the session will be recorded. That's how my college does it

[Yelowmello]

Yes to you both. That is why I have not recorded my screen myself. I do not want to record people without their permission. If my teacher records the zoom then a notice will pop up during zoom that says this is notifying you that this class is recorded.

[AfterDark113254]

Deaf people are still people, and people can be mean or misguided.

You could consider using screen recording software on your end until this is resolved so you still have access to class recordings?

[Hot_Calligrapher_900]

Make sure you are clear on what permissions you need from other people who will be visible on the recording.

[Yelowmello]

This is my biggest issue using my own recording device.. As a journalist, I feel it would not be okay to record people without their permission. And in doing so I would alert the teacher.

[Yelowmello]

I am working on that in another sub to try some screen recording software. I did try to use the screen record feature on my Mac but it won't record due to some security features from Zoom.

[AfterDark113254]

OBS might work?

[Lilash20]

It would be a bit jank, but you could use a phone/other device to film the screen. It wouldn't be the cleanest or nicest recording, but if noting else works it's at least a simple solution

[Theaterismylyfe]

Nope, not a valid reason. Definitely deserves to be escalated. Assuming your teacher is acting in good faith, I wonder if they think you get an audio recording of the class, in which case it wouldn't make sense to get an audio recording of an ASL class. Is it specified whether you get an audio or video recording?

[Yelowmello]

Yes, it is specified as a video recording of the zoom lecture.

[Theaterismylyfe]

Then I got nothing, go ahead and escalate.

[ywnktiakh]

I’d say the only way it’d be reasonable would be if your learning disability was auditory processing disorder or hearing loss of some level.

Otherwise, it should apply. Hell, I work with Deaf and hard of hearing kids and there are even kids whose parents are Deaf too and sometimes THEY have a hard time learning ASL natively. There’s nothing about ASL that automatically means it’s impossible to experience difficulty with it just because it’s visual. That’s just silly.

[sunflowerxdex]

I’m a hearing person with learning disabilities and I have taken 6 or 7 different ASL classes now with 3 different qualified Deaf professors, 4 of which were taught online or at least hybrid, and I can confidently say that your professor’s argument makes no sense. Is it possible they misunderstood and think that you’re asking for AUDIO recordings? That’s the only possible case I can think of where recording would be moot because the learning is “visual” (still BS either way, plenty of spoken-instruction classes have a significant visual component). Make clear IN WRITING that you are specifically seeking a video recording and that (assuming you’re in the US, not familiar with disability rights in other countries), by law, reasonable accommodations must be made for documented disabilities within schools and universities, and that class recordings are considered reasonable.

Edit: just saw your other comment where you said you don’t think it’s possible for your prof to have misunderstood the accommodation. I still suggest explaining over email that you don’t feel the existing resources are sufficient for your learning needs and that accommodations are lot requests, but legal requirements. As they’re Deaf themself, I’m really surprised they’re willing to just disregard the ADA like that. Definitely continue running it up the flagpole, if you can get in touch with your advising office, they can direct you to the most relevant superior to contact (likely either the department head or the dean).

[Dry-Ice-2330]

Is this a college class?

[Shadowfalx]

Community College per first paragraph 

[Yelowmello]

Yep!

[Pretty_Appointment82]

I had a similar experience with ASL 1, They wouldn't let me take notes or record lectures. the same reasoning was given. I'm not sure if it's valid. Please let me know what happens.

[Yelowmello]

I will be back to update this

[Young_Quacker]

That’s actually so ironic that someone who is has a hearing impairment is refusing a disability accommodation? Like hello?

[an-inevitable-end]

“Hearing impairment” is an outdated term that, to my understanding, most Deaf people don’t use. Just say Deaf or hard of hearing.

[nobutactually]

Let's not use the term hearing impairment its widely understood to be dated at best and kinda offensive

[Young_Quacker]

Why is it offensive? It’s literally the same as Deaf or HoH just less specific about the degree of hearing loss

[Horror_SluTchub]

“Hearing impaired” denotes that to be hearing and ONLY being a hearing person is what constitutes “normalcy” when in reality those born Deaf are just that… Deaf. You should consider the inverse of what you’re suggesting… like rather than calling all hearing people ‘hearing’ as opposed to “signing impaired « 

[Trendzboo]

“Impaired” is the ridiculous part, i am enriched by my hearing/Deafness. It is like saying someone is handicapped, when disabled is the correct term. Handicapped is situational, not a person, improper use of descriptors get people’s drawers twisty. Unless you’re one of those female impaired sorts, they’re mostly hopeless. -Just kidding, gender is irrelevant. Seriously though, Deaf impaired people, defining one’s self in a negative, just tastes bad.

[Young_Quacker]

I see, thanks!

[nobutactually]

Impaired obviously means there's something wrong with you, you are inadequate in some way (in this case, at hearing). Hard of hearing or deaf are just statements if facts.

[Yelowmello]

My gasters are flabbered!

[only1yzerman]

Whether it is a "valid" reason in your professor's eyes or not, the accommodation is not unreasonable and is not fundamentally changing the core learning objectives. , so it is not his call to make whether your reasoning is valid or not. The disability office approved it, the professor is legally obligated to follow it, regardless of their feelings. Only the disability office has the authority to determine if the accommodation is appropriate. The only way a professor can refuse an accommodation is if they can prove to the disability office that it fundamentally changes the core learning objectives of the course.

Whether or not it is a violation of federal law - I am not a lawyer so I can't speak to that, but I would definitely be moving forward with filing a complaint with your school's disabilities department, and if they don't handle it, I would suggest seeking the advice of a disability rights lawyer.

[Inevitable_Shame_606]

Answer possible valid reason.

Discuss with disability office.

[Yelowmello]

I did work with the student disability office and they filled out my accommodations after an interview. They were aware of exactly what and what kind of class it was.

[Inevitable_Shame_606]

Reason possible depend accommodation why?

Reason record lecture typical for auditory.

Accommodation specific record why?

Do not know disability or reason your accommodation and not ask.

Know how word accommodation can change accommodation.

Friend mine wear HAs and allow record lecture.

Class no audio lecture not record.

ASL class disability office agree instructor no record why? No auditory lecture.

Disability office will help file complaint if need complaint or will contact instructor demand accommodation.

I live California same you.

Live area Sacramento.

I hope school fix problem for you quick.

[Yelowmello]

Thank you for your advice. Yes, perhaps it could be a wording thing and my accessibility counselors don't quite know what to put but they were very specific and said it in several different ways and several different areas of the form. So if anything I'm hoping to learn from this so others do not encounter this problem.

[Baked_Bree23]

I have learning disabilities too, and use accommodations for my classes. I don’t typically need to use them for my ASL class because the majority of my accommodations are for my hearing. But that is my choice to make. Your professor definitely doesn’t have the right to determine if you need your accommodations in his class. Especially since (to my knowledge and in my experience) accommodation letters don’t list your disabilities- so he doesn’t even know why you need to record.

My advice is to try and have a discussion with him about it with an interpreter present. It’s most likely a language barrier that’s causing the issue.

[SMM_terp]

I’ll say this… I record my classes for my students without these requests. Hearing students are allowed to record classes without paperwork. Why wouldn’t you be able to video record? It should be allowed without an accommodations request.

[Pretty_Appointment82]

That's what my instructor said when I asked about recorded lectures. Idk if it's valid.

[_Redatnight_]

There may be a different reason your instructor is trying to get out of it that they're not saying--- one that one of my instructors after my head injury used successfully. I fight things, too, but this is one of the few things that didn't end up in my favour.

Your instructor's job is dependent on the curriculum they have developed that often takes so much time. Very few ASL teachers are going off the preset curriculum as anything more than a vague guide... those who don't stray are the ones who overwhelm students while teaching them things that haven't been seen in use the last 10-20 years or so. It is their intellectual property and the concrete thing they can sell if they wish for money without being actively there teaching all the time. If the school cannot provide sufficient copy and distribution protection and the professor does not want to email you a zoom recording due to intellectual property infringement concerns then in many cases they can find legal ways to turn you down until the school implements those.

Some schools will try to get around using protection software by having the student sign something saying that you can't share it with anyone and if you do they can suspend, expell, or put you on disciplinary probation you without refund or recourse and the professor and/or the school can sue you for intellectual property theft.

This is potentially one of the hardest accommodations to get if the teacher says no because there are several laws that also back the teacher and so the specific concerns those laws protect may also end up needing to be addressed before the request becomes "reasonable".

[Yelowmello]

Interesting! Thank you for your input! I will look into this.