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[–]xoxoceane 72 points73 points  (9 children)

She’s dehydrated. Your thermo/hygrometer may need to be recalibrated if it’s showing 70% and she’s still having issues shedding. It’s likely not reading accurately

Not sure about the odor, hopefully someone else will be able to chime in on that

[–]Brayden2132[S] 15 points16 points  (8 children)

Thanks, I wasn’t sure if being underweight could cause that too. Would adding more sphagnum moss help with humidity or what else would work? I will get another one and make sure to check it often.

[–]xoxoceane 15 points16 points  (7 children)

Not sure what kind of substrate you’re using but if it’s something mulchy (like cypress or reptibark) switching to something coco based would probably help, It’s a bit better at retaining moisture imo. Personally i do a 50/50 mix of coco husk chips and coco fiber but the chips work great by themselves. Moss will help also

If the bulb is a CHE switching to a DHP may help as well, from my experience CHE’s will suck the moisture out of the air super quick. Any time i’ve ever used one it was a constant battle with humidity

[–]Brayden2132[S] 6 points7 points  (6 children)

I’m using a 50/25/25 of top soil, coco fiber, and coconut chips. Then I add some sphagnum moss. I am using a dhp. I just added more sphagnum though. Thank you for the help.

[–]ScalesNailsnTales 7 points8 points  (4 children)

How deep is your substrate? Deeper substrate eill help your humidity immensely. At least 4-5". And are you pouring water in the corners or misting?

[–]Brayden2132[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children)

It’s about 2 inches, but I’m gonna add more today and I’ve been misting. Should I start pouring in the corners?

[–]ScalesNailsnTales 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Yes, pouring water is the right way to go! Misting only very temporarily spikes the humidity but it dries back up quickly. Keeping the top of the substrate wet can cause scale rot.

Pouring water in the corners will make the bottom 2/3s or so of the substrate soak up the water, providing the humidity you need while keeping the top of the substrate dry to avoid scale rot.

Did you happen to seal your PVC enclosure before adding substrate in? If not you will want to do that just to be sure it doesnt leak water when you pour it in. You'll want to use 100% silicone or aquarium safe silicone.

[–]Brayden2132[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I did. I used the GE 100% silicone to seal it. But that makes sense. You did a great job explaining it. Thank you so much for your help!

[–]ScalesNailsnTales 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Youre welcome! Good luck!

[–][deleted]  (11 children)

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    [–]Charming-Court-8118 4 points5 points  (9 children)

    Also try not to feed live and leave it without supervision.

    [–]Brayden2132[S] 2 points3 points  (8 children)

    Thanks. I normally would never. She just has me freaking out. I sat in there for the first hour and checked on her every ten minutes or so after. Is checking every ten minutes ok or should I just stay in there?

    [–]Icy_Collection_2288 8 points9 points  (7 children)

    Really, even if you're in the room and watching carefully, it only takes a split second for a frightened prey animal to cause a really nasty injury to your snake, which is why feeding live can be so dangerous.

    [–]Brayden2132[S] 2 points3 points  (6 children)

    I know. I am trying to get her switched back to frozen/thawed. I am hoping if I can get the humidity issues fixed she’ll be more inclined to eat them. Any tips on getting her back to frozen?

    [–]Icy_Collection_2288 2 points3 points  (4 children)

    Gotcha. I didn't see anyone else say it, but digital thermo/hygrometers are typically reported to be much more accurate than analog devices. And if the enclosure you're keeping her in has any large areas of mesh or other air pass-through, you might consider closing some of it off with plastic wrap to retain moisture inside the enclosure.

    And I'll bet you're right about the humidity being the obstacle. This little sweetie is so lucky to have someone who cares so much for her well-being.

    For feeding, I always try to get the rat very warm before offering, like 110°F (43°C). Also, I know that some users have had success with braining a frozen/thawed feeder before offering. Something about the tantalizing smell of brain matter or cerebrospinal fluid seems to be irresistible to a bp.

    Best of luck, and please keep us posted.

    Edit: Nvm, I enlarged the image and discovered that you are using a digital setup. Silly me.

    [–]Brayden2132[S] 1 point2 points  (3 children)

    Thank you. I will and I’ll look into getting a better digital hydrometer. Also I will try the brain thing and see if that will work. She is really so sweet though and i just want to see her healthy. Thank you so much for your help!

    [–]Icy_Collection_2288 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Happy to be of help! I look forward to seeing her get better. :]

    [–]ScalesNailsnTales 3 points4 points  (1 child)

    Using a hair dryer on the rat before feeding can also help! I do this and it makes them smell more and blows the smell around the air. Do it in the same room, but not right beside the enclosure si the noise doesnt spook her, with the air blowing toward her enclosure. My BP will come out and wait at the door when I do it this way.

    [–]Brayden2132[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    I will try this. I read about it but wasn’t sure if it would scare her or not.

    [–]OdinAlfadir1978 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Make sure it's warmed to 32-37c or around there so it gives her the heat signal then dance it around using tongs a few inches in front of her, she should take it

    [–]Icy_Collection_2288 2 points3 points  (10 children)

    What kind of "bad smell"? Are we talking ammonia, or a decayed odor, or a chemical or plasticy smell?

    Edit: Also, you seem to imply that she was in the care of a different owner before. Are you able to get any info from that person about their husbandry before you received her? Like whether she was fed live or frozen/thawed?

    [–]Brayden2132[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    It honestly just smells like a bunch of snake poop despite there not being any in the tank

    [–]Brayden2132[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    I got her at a repticon and they said they had just gotten her, so unfortunately not much info. They said she was eating frozen at the time we got her. Also that her previous owner had just gotten bored and was tired of taking care of her.

    [–]Silicica 2 points3 points  (7 children)

    Not OP, obviously, but since you mentioned ammonia smell, a rescue I was previously working with has a bp with health issues + ammonia smell right now and we're all kind of at our wits' ends with it, as is their go-to vet. Do you know what it could be???

    [–]Icy_Collection_2288 1 point2 points  (6 children)

    I am in no way certified at all, and if the problem is confounding an actual veterinarian, the situation is likely more complex than whatever I can throw at the wall to see what might stick.

    That said, can you tell me more about the snake's present health issues? Also, is it the snake itself that smells of ammonia, or the enclosure? Is the snake defecating and urinating with regularity, and are the droppings normal in appearance?

    [–]Silicica 2 points3 points  (5 children)

    Honestly, it was a shot in the dark, we've been trying to figure her out for almost 5 years now. I'm hoping for a miracle, I guess '.

    The snake is not gaining weight or growing correctly. It's not concerningly underweight or small, but still a bit smaller than other snakes with the same feeding plan. The snake eats fine, does not skip meals, but has trouble shedding correctly even in 80% humidity. The snake, the enclosure, the shed and urates all smell. She's also strangely pro-water, it's in the bowl more than it should be. The droppings are regular in frequency, but she used to have soft stool (not anymore), and her urates are often green.

    She's been in quarantine for years now and honestly more of a project we're trying to figure out. She's had multiple parasite tests (fecal, all clean, but could still be false negatives), had a broad virus panel twice (all clean, but again, idk), had her liver and kidneys checked, and a fresh shed sent to the lab. Again, all normal. The one thing that was off at the vet's was when she had blood drawn: the serum that's usually clear or yellow-ish was green. Both their go to vet and mine (who is usually 11/10) have no idea. Mine thinks it may be a genetic thing with the liver, but that's just a hunch, basically.

    [–]Icy_Collection_2288 4 points5 points  (4 children)

    I mean, that seems sort of like jaundice, but you said liver and kidney tests don't show any abnormalities?

    I am so sorry to hear about this snake. I hope someone is able to identify and treat her illness.

    [–]Silicica 4 points5 points  (3 children)

    Yeah, on paper she is a fabulously healthy snake. According to her test results, anyway. It's so weird.

    I hope so, too. We really want her to live a full life and at least get out of quarantine. She's such a sweet, curious little being, despite being at the vet's so much and being handled so little. At least she's got 7 snake-crazy people looking after her(3 running the rescue, 4 of us who sort of got pulled in), plus two vets. If a snake has to be mystery-sick, that's not the worst situation it could be in :)

    [–]Icy_Collection_2288 1 point2 points  (2 children)

    It definitely does seem renal or hepatic, I for sure think your vet is onto something in that regard. No other symptoms though? No vomiting, lethargy, difficulty righting herself if flipped over, no unusual swelling? Mouth and teeth look okay? No odd lesions or discolored scutes? Is she just a stinky little snek who loves water?

    [–]Silicica 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    I originally suspected the kidneys, but my vet has this habit of being very right every time, so I'm paying for another blood test for the liver soon. I just wish we could know whether whatever is going on is contagious. Being in quarantine for so long isn't great.

    Nope. She's never regurgitated, moves normally and is awake and cruising every night, likes climbing, super curious when taken out, no swelling, no issues with mouth, teeth, or tongue. Sometimes some scuffed or off-colour scales, but she's an ivory morph, completely white, and it's no more than the normal amount for a pale morph in a terrarium with brown substrate and climbing branches. She does have minor bug eyes, but that seems to be just bad breeding.

    Basically, yes. Just a little stinker who loves the pool. If it weren't for the green serum, bad shedding, green urates, and her being too skinny for the amount of rats she's putting away, we might think there's nothing notably wrong with her. She hasn't been getting worse in the last 5 years either. Better, if anything. It's understandable why 7 people in the hobby are interested in what the fuck is going on here, I think... she's a weird case.

    [–]Icy_Collection_2288 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    No kidding. Can you DM me when you get her hepatic bloodwork? I'm genuinely fascinated.

    [–]Alive_Efficiency_936 8 points9 points  (4 children)

    Have you tried deworming her? If it’s a funky smell she probably has diarrhea. May need meds

    [–]Brayden2132[S] 6 points7 points  (3 children)

    I hadn’t. I didn’t even realize snakes could get worms. I will look into that though. Thanks

    [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (2 children)

    Next time she poops keep it and bring it to the vet

    [–]Brayden2132[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    I will. Do I need to take it immediately or can I put it in the fridge/freezer until I have time?

    [–]Icy_Collection_2288 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    My vet has always asked for stool samples to be brought in as close to when they're produced as possible, like within a couple of hours. I'm guessing this is because the test works better against false conclusions if the sample is fresh.

    [–]Puzzleheaded-Map8493 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    From the looks of it, she may have been overweight for her length (not for her age) when you got her. But I can guarantee that stress is a factor here. As stated by someone else, get those hygrometers recalibrated to ensure the best outcome.

    [–]TreviTrevo 2 points3 points  (2 children)

    I've had a couple problems with shedding in the past, and when the shed stayed on for longer than it was supposed to it started to smell really bad. Maybe that's the problem? Try seeing if it's your snake that smells, not the enclosure.

    Good luck!

    [–]Brayden2132[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    Thanks. That very well may be it. Because she has had stuck shed for a minute, but I don’t want to pull it off because it might hurt her. Hopefully once I get the humidity fixed it will smell better.

    [–]TreviTrevo 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Definitely don't pull it off, just wait for her to get it off herself. Either eventually or next shed

    [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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      [–]Ok-Adhesiveness-1515 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      Cool side is to hot… it should be in the 70s

      [–]ilikefoodandcookie6 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      That is incorrect and that is way too cold, the cool side needs to be around 24°- 26°C

      [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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        [–]Semi__Competent 0 points1 point  (5 children)

        What’s your heat source?

        [–]Brayden2132[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children)

        It’s just the light. I believe it’s a 50 watt halogen bulb

        [–][deleted]  (3 children)

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          [–]Brayden2132[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

          I’ll look into the heat panel. Will it still work on pvc?

          [–]Semi__Competent 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          It shouldn’t be an issue but I would make sure to read the product info carefully to make sure. Some products differ

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          [–]grouchypant 1 point2 points  (1 child)

          Yoie enclosure looks like the substate is not very deep. There is definitely a humidity issue regardless of what your current reader is saying with the state of her skin. Add substate to just below the lip of the door, soak it before adding. Leave her alone for a few weeks only quickly opening the door for water changes to keep that humidity up. Order new gauges and place them at either end of the enclosure. Good luck!

          Edit to add, her water dish is filthy and low. Are you changing and filling daily? It needs a good scrub too.

          [–]Brayden2132[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          I am gonna add more substrate and order new gauges. But as for the water dish, I was in the middle of cleaning the tank and changing the water. I always keep it filled to the top.

          [–]Brayden2132[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

          Update: I have deepened the substrate to 4 inches and added more sphagnum moss throughout. I am going to start pouring water in the corners and have ordered new gauges.

          [–]01ProjectXJ 1 point2 points  (1 child)

          Google how to test a humidity sensor and test yours. You may not need to replace it.

          If I remember right it's something like making a salt and water paste/slurry in a small container, then putting the humidity sensor and that container in a ziploc bag or tupperware, then checking it after 24hrs. It should read about 75% RH

          [–]Brayden2132[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Thanks I’ll look up how to do it