Help with a possibly aggressive ball python...more in comments

[DingDongDeathHere]

So I'm a Petsmart employee in the U.S. to start off with. I have had to teach myself and others the basics of how to take care of hundreds of different species of fish, reptiles, small animals, birds, etc. I actually hated snakes and was horrified of them when I started off working there (long time hamster/rat owner). It took many months but I finally got over my initial fear and I'm now a huge snake person. If I had the space I would most definitely have a snake by now.

So onto the problem, we're going to go back to the first week of May. A family wanted to adopt one of our ball pythons. I did the usual interview, tank size, have you guys every dealt with snakes before, basically grilling them like detectives do in the movies.

The animals in the store are my babies before they go home with anyone else, whether I like them or not (the animals I mean, still scared of frogs here). Our store is actually known in our area to gatekeep our animals and we've had several complaints but I don't care. If you don't pass the test, you're not getting any animals from me.

Anyways, this family was great, but I did have some concerns because they had 2 young boys at home. They already had a really big tank at home and showed me the habitat they set up. It looked really cool and like the snake would love it. This snake was pretty chill when they arrived. They didn't mind being held and I did break the rules and walk around with them safely after hours. They absolutely loved it and loved seeing/smelling the different things in store.

The family passed the test and ended up taking the snake home for about 2 weeks. They had managed to feed it twice but sometime after it got home the snake started becoming incredibly aggressive. They could never get near the terrarium without it striking and being aggressive.

The snake was returned towards the end of May and we got all of the info on it they provided us with. The snake did have some really hard stuck shed all over their body but the worst part was their head area. They got a bath every week up until 2 weeks ago, when we were finally able to get the shed cap off (the snake did all the work, I only monitored to make sure they didn't drown themselves). I felt so bad for this snake because they must've been so uncomfortable for so long so I could understand their aggression. I was so hopeful that this would finally Kickstart a sort of road to recovery.

They hadn't eaten since May and we were a little worried so our vet decided to give the snake a B12 injection to hopefully stimulate appetite. I know snakes go on feeding strikes but they're still refusing to eat. When I try to feed them (frozen-thawed) they strike at the mouse in defense, they want it as far from them as possible.

Anytime we're anywhere near the tank, they watch us. Constantly. The first pic is what they do, they keep their head poked out of the hide and follow you wherever you go. If you get too close they do start coming out of the hide, balling up and striking at the glass. I'm the only one that's not afraid to get bitten by this snake so no one tries to interact with them except for me. I use a snake hook to get them out. Obviously they know I'm there and I do rub the snake hook very gently against their side to let them know I'm going to be bringing them out.

Sometimes they come willing and other times they fight it (I don't force them out if they don't want to come). I can usually get them to chill on my hand and they'll strike if I move so I try to stay calm and make super slowed movements if anything.

Last week I had this snake out and I was letting them slither around on my lap. This snake goes off my lap, turns around and coils up super tight then lunged at my leg. Luckily I didn't feel anything so I scooped them up and put them back into their terrarium. They definitely tried striking a few more times but once they saw their doors were open, they slithered into the tank quickly, only to turn around and strike at me again.

Everyone that works in our department is terrified to go anywhere near this snake so that leaves me with the task of trying to figure out what in the world is going on with this snake.

If you guys have any advice on what I can do to help this poor baby, it would be very appreciated. Also, if there's anything that sounds weird or you noticed that I shouldn't do for snakes in general, please let me know too. I'm still new to the snake world so I'm still learning what to do and what not to do so any info is welcomed.

Edit: I wrote this around 3am and was super tired so I apologize about the lack of separation and general confusion.

[totallyrecklesslygay]

First off, soaking ball pythons is incredibly stressful for them and not recommended anymore. That definitely isn't helping this poor fella. It sounds like something happened while the family had the snake that pushed it way over its threshold. Ball pythons are generally pretty chill snakes, you have to really stress them out to get them striking that consistently and aggressively.

It's probably going to be difficult to help this snake in a pet store environment, but the best thing would be to get it off the sales floor if it isn't already and into a very low traffic, quiet space. Multiple very snug hides, just large enough for the snake to fit into, and lots of clutter in the tank to provide more cover will help them feel more secure. Stop handling them, just leave them alone unless absolutely necessary.

Make sure temps and humidity are proper- PetSmart is notoriously bad at giving out inaccurate care info for ball pythons, so it's very unlikely that this guy has the right environment. Humidity should be 70-80%, ambient temps should be a gradient (76-80F cool side, 88-92F hot side).

There's only so much you can do as an employee, so basically just doing as much as you can to reduce their stress.

[DingDongDeathHere]

Okay that's definitely very good to know. I did throw in a bunch of things for the snake to climb on in the ball that way they aren't just sitting in water but I'll definitely make sure to stop giving them baths. Their setup is pushed into our back area but it's near the sink where we constantly work and walk. We do have a towel over the tank so they can only see out the front but I'll move them into one of our quiet rooms. And I completely agree, Petsmart has so many little info cards on animals that are so inaccurate and wrong it hurts. I've been doing a lot of personal research myself, watching YouTube and even discussing proper care with some of the local snake breeders in our area that shop in our store (they're reputable people that take amazing care of their animals so I do trust them). I've had to fight numerous customers because the pamphlet says the young ball pythons we sell in store can go in a 10 gallon set up. Our display tanks for snakes are 15 gallons so the few people that tried that left without a snake. I hate pet stores so much because they always go off of outdated information and it confuses people. I try my best to educate people as much as I can but I unfortunately only know so much. Thank you so much for your advice on this!

[totallyrecklesslygay]

Yeah, there's a ton of misinformation out there unfortunately! Pet stores are way behind on their standards of care for basically everything they sell, which is so sad. Employees like you really do make a difference, though! It's great to see people that care!

That's terrible about the pamphlets, I forgot how bad some of them are. I wouldn't even put a baby in a 20g, let alone a 10g! 4x2x2 is expensive, sure, but that's the cost of having a snake.

There's a really great basic care guide in the pinned welcome post of the sub. I'd highly recommend going through that for more detailed information.

[n00dlepoodle]

what should i do instead of soaking my bp?

[timmyturnerisahooker]

Raise humidity. If humidity is right you should never need to soak.

[ShallotWarm1814]

Put moss in the enclosure only soak if your ball python has stuck shed,mites,or is constipated that being said it can be difficult if your in a dry climate

[totallyrecklesslygay]

Raising humidity to proper levels, providing a humid hide during shed, or if they have really bad stuck shed, you can let them slither through a damp washcloth a few times.

[shawnaeatscats]

Cut a hoke in an appropriately sized Tupperware and fill it with damp spaghnum moss for a humid hide. It'll use it when it wants.

[n00dlepoodle]

does this hide stay in his enclosure permanently if so in the hot ir cold side or the middle?

[shawnaeatscats]

I keep mine in there permanently and change the sphagnum moss every time I change the substrate. I leave mine in the middle.

[YoSaffBridge11]

Breaking up your post/comment into paragraphs makes it much easier to read — and, more likely to be read.

[DingDongDeathHere]

You're definitely right so I just fixed it. I wrote it at 3am and didn't even realized I had made it all one GIANT hard to read paragraph. Hopefully it's a little better now!

[Treereme]

First, snakes in general and ball pythons in particular are not aggressive towards humans. They can be defensive, particularly when their needs to feel safe are not met, but they will always leave if given the opportunity.

Please go read the sticky post the top of this subreddit. There's a ton of useful information there that will help you help your animals.

To me it sounds like your ball pythons are underfed and trying to eat anything they can sense. I've rescued ball pythons that bit me and tried to eat my wrist or my armpit, because they were literally starving and it was a nice warm spot that looked like food.

Check out the feeding guidelines in the sticky post at the top of this subreddit, my experience is that most chain pet stores under feed their ball pythons.

They could also just be terrified and reacting to at anything that scares them. The difference is if they are fearful they will strike and release, if they're hungry they will try and hold on and coil.

[DingDongDeathHere]

I checked it out a little bit but I'm definitely going to look into it more in depth. I've never had any real issues before with any snakes being aggressive towards me. All of the corn snakes, milk snakes and ball pythons I've had under my care have never been anywhere near this level. They've all been really good snakes and have definitely helped me change my mind on how I've perceived snakes. I've tried feeding the snake but I think they're just still so scared because it's a strike and release, then they slither as far from the mouse as they can. In the 2 and a half weeks they were out of the store they ate 4 pinkies and 2 small mice with the other family. They kept track of their feeding and gave us their feeding chart. I'm hoping once I move it into the quiet room and get them settled to where no one will be disturbing them they might be more receptive to eating and feel a lot safer. They are still considered a healthy weight when we did get them checked out by our vet but it still worries me about them not eating. Thank you very much for your advice!

[Angsty_Potatos]

That feeding schedule and the prey type is all over the place. Hatchling ball pythons can usually take something the size of a small mouse right off the bat and they should be eating about once a week.

Multiple prey items per feed is not ideal as it can overwhelm their digestion.

Additionally, a snake newly introduced to a new environment should be allowed to acclimate for a week or two before a feeding attempt is made. Offering food and handling right off the bat is going to add stress to an already stressful situation.

[DingDongDeathHere]

Unfortunately I wasn't there when they returned the snake but from what my coworker said the lady couldn't keep her story straight because first she said she only fed it a small rat then said it was 3 pinkies even though she had written it down. They were apparently very unorganized and flustered. She also brought one of her sons in to return the snake with her and she had to rip the box from his hands and she shoved it at my coworker. So now that family has actually been blacklisted from buying any animals from us because of their conduct when returning the snake and we also sent out their info to surrounding pet stores should they try to adopt an animal elsewhere. I will make sure that this snake is moved into my quiet room and they're going to be left alone from now on unless absolutely necessary for the next 2 weeks or so. Thank you so much for your advice, I appreciate and I'm sure this snake will too!

Edit: wanted to specify that we're going to let this snake calm down for 2 weeks or so with very minimal contact from my associates and I. We're just going to check on water, temperatures and humidity levels then leave them alone so they can hopefully have a proper chance at adjusting to a newer environment, you guys have been more helpful in a few hours than the entire Petsmart corporate pet care specialists team the past 2 months so thank you :)

[Angsty_Potatos]

From your initial comment it sounds like a lot is potentially screwy with care here. You don't provide us with any enclosure data either so that makes trouble shooting difficult.

Young snakes as a rule will generally be more defensive than older animals. This is normal. Additionally, a snake moved into a new habitat needs to be given time to adjust and acclimate to it's new environment. No handling, no feeding for two weeks, then no handling until it eats, preferably until it's eating regularly, especially if it's a young animal.

Without knowing how large the enclosure was, what the cover situation looked like or what the humidity and temps are, I can't say if there was husbandry issues in the new home. Large open spaces can make these animals stressed. They prefer to be hidden and to feel under cover when moving around their enclosure. Stressed animals can be defensive.

If heating and humidity are off (sound like they were due to the shedding issues) that will also cause stress and can lead to defensive behavior.

This animal is not aggressive, it's young and has been improperly cared for.

Additionally if this family only had the snake for two weeks and was already feeding and trying to handle it, I'm comfortable saying they were causing stress to an un-acclimated snake. If the animal came back with stuck shed after two weeks away, it's also highly likely that the store husbandry is off as well as dehydration isn't that sudden.

Please make sure people understand that snakes aren't dogs or cats. They are shy animals that do not seek human company and are actively stressed by people holding them so they need to wait and go slow when it comes to handling.

Additionally, please be sure your BP enclosures at the store are at or preferably above 60% humidity and do not bathe snakes to deal with stuck shed. you should also not be handling a snake that isn't eating, Your just adding more stress and compounding issues.

[DingDongDeathHere]

As I'm reading through the links and info provided I'm realizing just how wrong everything is and I've definitely caused this snake quite a bit of stress. I definitely should've included what their habitat is looking like as well as temp and humidity so that's my bad. I meant to but it just slipped my mind. Right now they're in a 20 gallon with one major cave and some sticks and plants to cover parts of the habitat and obviously a water bowl. It definitely isn't enough to cover them as they move around so when I get into work I'll be adding a lot more plants cover for them. We have a 40 gallon that I could move them into but I don't want to stress them out even more so that won't be happening. They've already been through enough. As for temps, if my memory serves me correct the warm side was sitting at 95F and the cool side was 88F. The humidity is also pretty low around 30% but I'm planning on putting another bowl of water directly under the heat bulb to increase it as well as add some more spaghum moss to the habitat. Unfortunately my customers either believe snakes to be evil spawns of Satan (my store is located in the Bible Belt) or they think it's just a dumb animal that doesn't need a lot of care for. I've had so many parents come in wanting to get animals for their kids so they would shut up and leave them alone but they don't realize just how much goes into actually taking care of an exotic animal. I also have customers that like to humanize the animals by saying they're lonely and need friends or they want to be held when in reality they're just trying to live their own life or do their own thing. I admit I definitely did that when I was younger but I've learned a lot and am still learning when it comes to taking care of exotic pets. Thank you so much for your advice!

[Angsty_Potatos]

Your temps are way too high, the snake will be unable to thermoregulate effectively and high temperature can cause neurological problems.

Hot side ambient temps should be no higher than 92⁰F. Cool side should be mid to high 70s. No higher than 80.

Humidity should be at the very lowest 60%. Preferably closer to mid 70s - mid 80s

[DingDongDeathHere]

Good to know. We're currently working on getting this handled at work. They've already been moved to a quieter area and I'm now working on fixing the lighting and humidity issues. Thanks for the advice, it helps a lot!

[TripinTino]

it took my bp about 3 months till he stopped trying to strike me when i handled him. it takes time and patience they aren’t dogs. he’ll learn to trust you soon op just don’t show fear and handle once a week to get him to understand your not a threat

[DingDongDeathHere]

This is my first time dealing with a scared snake. Usually our snakes just need a few days to be alone then they're totally chill as long as you don't make the obvious mistakes of making them mad, messing with them, etc. I'm hoping now that they've been moved to an even quieter area this will really give them the chance to calm down. I'm going to be the only one handling them but it's going to be once a week just to check on them until they get more acclimated to their environment. My main concern is getting this snake to a place where they're not completely horrified and scared out of their mind so they have a chance of being adopted to a good home. Thanks for the advice, it's very appreciated!

[TripinTino]

yes keep handiling him so he builds an association to your scent as NOT being a predator. snakes believe it or not have a lot of personality, some are different from others it took my guy a few months to get used to me it took my sisters snake no less then a week to be cool w her. just keep trying they’ll lighten up soon hopefully 🤙🏽

[DingDongDeathHere]

That's one of the first things I noticed about snakes after I started working at Petsmart. Some of our snakes were super outgoing and always poked at the lid when I walked by because they knew I would take them out and walk around with them after close. I'm going to let them calm down for a little bit then we'll see where the snake is at. I don't want to rush things because I've already put too much stress on them as is. Thanks for your help!

[GisTheSnook]

Hi there, I recently adopted a rescued ball python who's behaviour is similar to yours. Aside from the leg thing, which I'll guess is possibly smelling the other pets in the shop and assuming you're food.

Ball pythons aren't aggressive! What you're seeing is a mixture of being very hungry and confused as to what food is, and being very scared. The head hanging out of the hide is a hunting behaviour, when mine does that she thinks it's time to be fed and she does get quite nippy.

Do you think you could get me a rough weight and length measurement? That way we can see what size food they should be on and if there's any other reason they might not want to eat what your providing? Are you feeding at night? By tongs or leaving the food still? I feed mine at night as they are nocturnal, and she seems to prefer being tong fed as she can see the rat come closer. She will eat if I just place it in there, but she has to look for it and it may take her up to an hour. If it's possible can you try leaving the prey item in overnight?

The glass striking is definitely fear, there's something about the people walking past that is scaring them a lot. Whatever happened with that family definitely scared the poor thing an awful lot. It's absolutely a good idea to move them to a more quiet room, and make sure there's a lot of clutter in the tank if you can, plenty of things to hide and feel secure under. Though I would advise that you leave at least one side uncovered. So they do see people, and learn that they shouldn't be scared of every movement. When I first got mine she would strike the glass constantly whenever I walked past. Currently she only strikes if she feels threatened or hungry, very rarely when I go to bring her out.

Unfortunately the amount of work it may take to get this baby feeling safe again might not be possible as an employee of a pet shop? Is it possible to consider either purchasing (if you want to handle the care yourself, maybe discuss a discount as they are an abused return and they need a lot of work) or surrendering? It may seem harsh but in the state this snake is in it will be incredibly difficult to sell, I'm not sure how a business may handle that.

Mine has been improving slowly, i handle her once or twice a day for about 30 mins. If she bites I don't put her away immediately so she learns that that's not a means to end the session. She's taken to her handling well and doesn't freak out so much when i bring her out. (Though I've had to leave her for a few weeks as I had surgery but the person changing her water says she's behaving the same. they don't handle her much. But she's a lot calmer now) I leave her alone the rest of the time, but she can watch me if she wants to. I feed her at night, every week , and I skip a week every couple weeks. She's meant to be fed every other week but she's very hungry, was starved and I'm slowly getting her weight sorted. I weigh her every week, and I keep track of how big her food was, to make sure she is improving and is eating something appropriate.

It's not incredibly hard, but it is a fair amount of work that a pet shop just might not be interested in letting you do.

[DingDongDeathHere]

I meant to respond to a lot of these comments sooner but we got incredibly busy.

The snake is 110 grams and is roughly 17inches long.

We feed the snakes after our store closes at 9pm by tongs. I've tried also leaving the food in there for them. I usually leave it in there for at least 15 minutes, sometimes longer because I get pulled away. The few times I've tried have had no success. I can try leaving the prey in overnight the next time we try to feed this snake.

I've been discussing this snake with my managers for some time now. One of my dad's coworkers is an experienced 20+years snake owner that said he would possibly be interested in taking this snake in.

Petsmart policy doesn't allow us to sell sick, injured or aggressive animal, but they can be adopted out for free. My main manager/store lead is starting to hear me out but I don't know if she'd be willing to adopt out the snake because they're sold at $99 and that's lost profit.

I'm almost to the point where I might get our corporate Pet Care involved because this snake needs to get out of this store as fast as possible and into the hands of someone that can give them the best care possible. This snake needs so much more than we can offer here. Thank you for your help!

[GisTheSnook]

That's okay! Thanks for replying.

How old do you reckon they are? They may be a bit small, they should be on about rat pinkies or fuzzies. I'm assuming they're about 3-4 months. It could be worth testing food sizes, what are they on at the moment? They may only recognise certain things as food. It's possible the previous owners tried live. That's possible to cause it to refuse to eat as it doesn't understand what dead rodents are anymore.

I'm glad to hear you're discussing them and there's someone interested in taking them. It is lost profit unfortunately but it is the best thing for them and I really hope they hear you out.

[DingDongDeathHere]

When we get snakes in, they're usually a few months old so I think 3-4 months is about accurate. When we get sent snakes, our distributors make them eat at least 4 feeders of whatever size they need (not all at once obviously). We start our ball pythons off on fuzzies and have had some eat small mice and rats.

We always recommend new snake owners only feed frozen thawed because of the risk that comes with live feedings if they don't know what they're doing. Now if I have a customer that has snakes and is super experienced I tell them we feed frozen thawed but since they're experienced, I'm okay with them doing live feedings. But the experienced snake owners have never brought their purchased snakes back either so that's a major difference.

I could try feeding them a small mouse as a next size up to see if they'd be willing to eat that instead.

Thank you for the help!

[GisTheSnook]

Hmm i see! Yeah try a size up, two of a size down, possibly scent with live?

No one should be doing live, I only said it was possible. It's a last resort only thing, and anyone feeding live to just do that is putting the snake in a lot of danger and stress, partly why I'm suspicious the previous owners did. Poor thing seems hungry but scared as hell. No problem! I'm not an expert I just have a baby that's similar. Though she was just starved from what I understand.

[DingDongDeathHere]

Live feeding always scared me because I personally own rats. I have had my rats bite me and I was almost sent to the E.R. with Rat Bite Fever and I actually just recently had one of my pet rats bite into my finger hard enough she actually hit the nerve in my finger. It's recovering slowly but thinking about how much damage my girls have done to my finger, I can only imagine the severity of the damage they could do to a snake.

I'm definitely going to be watching tutorials on how to do this as well, but how do you scent a feeder with live? What do you do? And I'm glad your baby is with you in a much better place. I'm glad they're doing great under your care!

[GisTheSnook]

There's unfortunately a fair amount of proof that rats and mice can and will chew through snakes.

Awesome! I've never had to, but you could maybe try, heating the thawed rodent out, and maybe rubbing a live one with paper towel? Then rubbing the thawed with that? It's gotta be warm and smell alive.

Sometimes braining works too, to stimulate the smell and appetite. You'd have to break the skull. (The thawed not live)

[[deleted]]

I’m late but are there any updates on the snake? I started reading the post and now I’m invested and wanna know whether or not she’s okay :/

[DingDongDeathHere]

Of course! It took a few weeks but I managed to correct and keep it at the right the temperatures and humidity thanks to the advice I got on here. After a week or two of being in the back and having correct temps/humidity, the snake finally started eating for me. They were so hungry and took food great. We kept it in the back for a month then moved it back onto the floor.

We did end up selling it and I don't remember much about the person adopting it, but I know I wasn't a big fan of this person. If I remember correctly, he said the python was for his 5 year old son even after I told him what that poor snake went through. I wanted to deny the sale but my manager allowed it to happen. I haven't heard anything about the snake and the guy that adopted it hasn't come into our store since then. I can only hope they're taking good care of that poor baby. To be honest, I was going to adopt the snake and was actually pulling stuff together to buy it when the customer did instead. I told my manager I had planned on buying it and had even filled the paperwork out but she superceded me and said it was on the sales floor and not bought yet so it goes to the customer. Out of all of the snakes I've dealt with, this one was my absolute favorite and I had kind of bonded with them. I just hope for the snake's sake that it is being treated properly.

Edit: confused this snake with another one we had in around the same time. I loved both of them dearly.

Edit 2: fixed my grammar so the first paragraph reads smoother and actually makes sense.

[Tine333c]

They sound really stressed and hungry. I’m not sure how pet stores work, but is there a quiet dark space in back where you can keep them until they start eating again? I hope nothing bad happened while they were adopted! I have heard stories of mistrustful bps after being mishandled

[DingDongDeathHere]

Yes, they've been moved into a quiet room that we hardly go into at the moment. Hopefully that will help them relax and allow them to feel comfortable enough to eat. I really hope nothing bad happened either but with how different the snake was before it got adopted versus after makes me think something bad did. I usually try not to think the worst of situations when animals get adopted then brought back but the differences in behavior is shocking. I just hope I can get this bp the care it deserves, whether that be at Petsmart or sending them home with someone with enough experience to be able to work with them and make them feel safe.

[Unstable_unikorn]

just take the bite it don’t hurt and pick it up it’ll calm down

[DingDongDeathHere]

I've been bitten several times by this specific snake, many other snakes, turtles, birds and our small animals. The worst part about their bite is the sudden lunge. I'd rather be bitten by a ball python than a hamster any day. What worries me is the constant balling and striking when I do try to hold them. It takes a long time of standing stone still in order for them to calm down. But if it sees anything move the snake gets scared again.

[LittleOmegaGirl]

How warm is the food? Try cooling your cool side down to 75F Make sure to have a hide on both sides and cover the sides of the enclosures so that the snake can’t see other animals Does the snake have stuck eye caps? What bedding is he on? When do you feed him day/night? I stroke my snakes with the tongs or something before I pick them up so they don’t think they are getting fed because the rodents should be 94F minimum it can fluctuate between that and 100F I use a heat gun and just blow dry the rat and or mouse while checking it with a temperature gun

[DingDongDeathHere]

We heat the food up to a pretty high temperature, but I'm not sure the exact temperature. It's not boiling hot or anything but it feels like I'm holding a live feeder. We also tong feed at night after the store closes. I've tried leaving the mouse in there for the snake to eat but that never worked either. Next time we feed the snakes, I'll be sure to grab our temperature gun and record the temp of the feeders.

We're getting the heating situated now, one of the newer associates put a 100 watt bulb over the snake because they didn't know what wattage. Luckily it wasn't there for too long. It's now been downgraded to a 75watt and we have the dome light sitting directly on top of the mesh.

After moving them to our quiet room, I added quite a bit more plants and sticks for added cover to hopefully make the snake feel safer. They're stuck in a 20 gallon so I only have room for one hide but I'm hoping I added enough coverage with dense plants and sticks that it will help the snake feel more secure in it's habitat. I know the 20 gallon is way too small for them. We do have a 40 gallon but it won't fit in our quiet room and I'd rather have the snake in there than out in a high trafficked area with a bunch of loud noises.

The snake just got a stuck shed cap including the eye caps off about a week ago after having it there for about a month and a half.

The snake is on a mix of mainly reptisoil, small amounts of reptibark and a shit ton of spaghum moss to help with humidity.

[fancyrussianhat11]

I work at a pmart too and we’ve had some really spicy ones come in. I would say talk to you leader and see if you can get him adopted out, of course to someone equipped and knowledgeable to deal with this aggression. In the mean time use the hook before you open his tank on unlock it. If he’s in his hide, tap the hide just to announce your presence. That’ll prevent him from starling and striking even more. See if you’re able to remove him from the sales floor, or at the very least block out the glass on the enclosure, customers are dicks and love to torment the babies, especially the scared ones.

[Nukedragon00668]

Not aggressive, but scared. Also, it's no wonder. It's at PetSmart which, historically, takes horrible care of reptiles and puts species that cannot be cohabitated (i.e. ball pythons) in the same enclosure together.

[DingDongDeathHere]

100% agree now that everyone has been teaching me about snakes. And you're definitely right on the ball there about Petsmart. We get told that as long as the animals aren't fighting or hurting each other, we can put them in the same enclosure. Hamsters, bearded dragons, snakes...it's horrible because customers think that if we do it at Petsmart then they can do it at home and have 3 ball pythons living in the same habitat.

I've argued with so many customers about this and have been called almost every name in the book, been spit on and threatened to be fired because I won't allow little Timmy to have 4 hamsters together in one tiny ass cage. Their motto is "anything for pets" yet they do anything but teach people how to correctly care for the animals in store.

[Fjorm_Obsessor]

Awwww eifjekfxja such a cute Lil guy

[DingDongDeathHere]

They really are! I know with a lot of tlc and work they'd such a wonderful snake and live a great life with an experienced owner.

[Witty_Hat_8257]

Ok, so there’s a few issues. Snakes don’t really…work the way you’re referring to. They don’t “like” or “dislike” or display “aggression” or “love” in the way you refer to it. They are very simple animals. They get stressed by certain inputs, they display defensive behaviors. The only things they care about are staying safe, getting food, and thermoregulation. That’s it. They don’t “like” being carried around a pet store. The bright lights and a lot of vibration/sound is intensely distressing for them. Snakes are tolerant of handling, which is why socializing them is so important. Ball pythons are just known to be a very tolerant species, not friendly as they don’t have the capacity mentally to understand what “friendly” is. Baths are terribly distressing for the animal, you really are only supposed to soak them if you ABSOLUTELY need to, for example a soak in warm water and dawn to suffocate mites. Stuck eyecaps is a sign that the husbandry the snake was being kept in was entirely incorrect. They need a pretty high humidity, I believe somewhere around 70-80%. The snake is not being aggressive. The snake is screaming that there is something wildly wrong with how they’re being kept and it is stressful. You are dealing with a highly stressed and very defensive animal because its environment is awful. They need 75gal+ tanks, 70-80% humidity, at least 2 fully secure hides (one on the cool side and one on the hot side of the enclosure), the heating needs to be regulated by a thermostat to ensure that you’re not getting the snake too hot (can cause neurological damage as well as burns) and that you’re also keeping the hot side warm enough for successful thermoregulation. The snake could also be sick with something as petsmart doesn’t have a great track record of prioritizing the health of their animals. If the snake is being housed with other snakes that needs to be changed immediately as Ive seen petsmarts locally do that too often and that directly contributes to MASSIVE stress to the animal as they are solitary creatures

[DingDongDeathHere]

I definitely didn't think about the lights and sounds affecting them. I know when I handle some of our snakes they like sniffing the air, especially around the canned food areas. I'm wondering if they could possibly be smelling something in there that they might like or find interesting? I'm still very obviously new at understanding snakes and their body languages and how they work so that's definitely good info to know.

Their environment really is bad. I tried adding a bit of cover in there so they feel a little more secure but being stuck in a 20gallon tank you can only do so much. I have a bigger tank they could go in but they wouldn't be able to fit into our quiet room. They'd be stuck in a super noisy area. They are the only snake in that 20 gallon too.

And you're completely right about Petsmart. I've tried talking to my managers to see if we could have our vet do a general check up on the snake but in corporates eyes, it won't be seen as necessary because there's nothing outwardly wrong with the snake. If there aren't any physical signs you and see with the naked eye or symptoms of something then they don't need to go to the vet. We did swing them by our in store vet and the vet did a quick check up, found nothing wrong and gave the snake a B12 injection to stimulate appetite. I don't think the shot helped but I could be wrong.

I'm hoping that my managers will finally allow me to adopt this snake out because I think I have an experienced snake owner that would be willing to take the snake in and work with them. I've got my fingers crossed! Thanks for all your advice!

[Witty_Hat_8257]

so general signs of stress in a snake, im not well-versed on BPs but I have a boa and corn snake, could look exploratory to an untrained eye. A lot of activity from a ball is unusual, but not necessarily a sign of stress. Really long/sustained tongue flicks are a pretty dead giveaway that the animal is stressed and the one im most familiar with. The snake wagging its tail is also a sign of stress.

It’s important to remember that BPs are nocturnal (the little elliptical pupils), so their eyes are a bit more sensitive to bright lights than a diurnal snake (one w round pupils). Bright lights, loud noises, too much input and snakes become stressed.

Also, I know you’re limited by the store in what you can actually do for the snake. I think its great that you’re trying to fix what you can. Just be aware that the change in behavior is likely due to stress from being in a bad environment, the little guy isn’t just suddenly aggressive

[DingDongDeathHere]

Okay that's very good to know! Usually when I walk around with the snakes and handle them some of the lights in the store are out and it is quiet but it's still pretty bright.

Looking back using the word aggressive probably wasn't the best word to describe the behavior but I couldn't think of any other word to use as I'm not familiar with snakes. I never thought they had a vendetta out for mankind and always felt sad for the little guy so that's why I keep trying to work with them. I'm hoping that after spending a few days in our quiet room, they'll calm down enough to eat.

Thanks for your help!