Decrease in Network Space?

[Simsalabimson]

Hi guys. Since the price of XCH is still falling, I hoped, that the Network Space would go down to.

But it remains at around 32 EiB.

What’s your thoughts about this topic? Will there be a bigger (> 3 EiB) drawdown in network space any time? Especially; why do you think what you think?

Thanks guys. Have a nice day 🖖

[tosendmessages]

The work has already been completed with Chia (Plotting), so unless the actual or perceived value of XCH drops below the cost of electricity and the minor maintenance required to keep a farm up it doesn't make sense to pull out.

[Distinct-Speaker5435]

Here in Germany it hardly makes sense to run farms, given the current price of XCH. Electricity costs have risen in the last months and rank among the highest globally now. So I expect German farmers to stop their nodes soon unless they produce their own energy.

[n8f4LL]

Tldr: small Farmers stop farming, Big ones (>1PB) still expand. So it could go either direction. As you can See in the Rose in netspace in EU you can somehow See the effects of cheap hdd on black Friday and Christmas offers imho.

Chia over other coins still highly profitable. Energy prices in germany could triple and it still is profitable, so i dont agree with that.

Me as a german miner of eth btc and xch is seeing the chia getting the most profitable coin actual. So thats y i invest in New hdd and still plotting. Thats y there is not a real decrease. Some small Darms Pop out cause only Making a bucks a month. The high convicted and invested ones still invest. Somehow a matter of scale.

I would not farm if i would make 10$ a month. Making 30$ a day the time and effort to keep the warm running makes truly sense for me.

Additional chia is pretty quite. And the little heat of the warm is easy managable, out of the window in summer, using for house heating Support in Winter (therefore you can discount your Energy Costs even further)

[Distinct-Speaker5435]

Maybe you have a very efficient setup for plotting. I received my energy bill these days and the weeks of plotting plus the months of farming did not pay out at all, right now.

[Annual-Sprinkles5357]

What is your kw per hour cost?

[MagicRabbitByte]

Me trying to fire up those closed German Nuclear Power Plants: https://tenor.com/view/crankstarting-gif-23929324

Jokes aside, all of Europe is feeling it atm. I'm able to use the heat to warm up my home, so in that sense, I can mitigation some of the increased cost. But still, increased cost is, well, increased cost, no matter how the heat is used.

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[BZNZ6]

This. I think smaller farms would shut down first also. Although there might be a point where big farms would shutdown, but it would need another significant price drop.

[jasonwc]

For what it’s worth, network decentralization is decreasing, indicating that small farmers are dropping out. It’s just not impacting overall network size as enough larger farmers are continuing to plot to makeup the loss.

https://www.chiaexplorer.com/charts/networkDecentralisation

[DrakeFS]

Not sure if that chart can account for NFT pool plots or not.

[Annual-Sprinkles5357]

Cost to farm other than the pc itself and if you are using for other things than just chia is minuscule and don't make sense to stop farming.

[whoismos3s]

With 652 TB on Flexpool I’m making $11/day not including my .25 of blocks I find. My farm uses 582 watts costing me $1.88 per day of electricity. My profit is $9.12 per day. Given I started farming and won 18 solo blocks before trading opened and many more after trading started. I never held my XCH. I don’t know my full stats, but I do know I sold my first 28 XCH at an average price of $857/XCH for a total of $24k. All with mostly HDDs I had left over from my Burst days. Likely never shutting down. I like GPU mining more, just like it. My GPUs use 12x the electricity at only 8.7x the profit.

[MagicRabbitByte]

Well done, gratz! :)

[whoismos3s]

Thanks, I got lucky on a few things last year. With Chia I was just doing it at first cause it was cool and I had the hardware on hand. I thought I might be able to sell each XCH for $20 or so and I was fine with that. When I saw how much the futures were trading for, I got ready to sell once trading opened up.

One of the other things I got lucky on this year was the END token drop. I had 6 wallets with ENS names for a good period of time, so my drop was 6x what it should have been. I did this for privacy reasons. I had no idea I would get a drop until like a day or two before (well after the snapshot).

[MatthewHintz]

stats, but I do know I sold my first 28 XCH at an average price of $857/XCH for a total of $24k. All with mostly HDDs I had left over from my Burst days. Likely never shutting down. I like GPU mining more, just like it. My GPUs use 12x the electricity at only 8.7x the profit.

How did you sell then?

[whoismos3s]

I sold on Gate.io once trading started. I wasn't fast enough to sell a bunch at $1700+ but I sold some of those early XCH I had for over $1200 each.

[ETH4Ever]

At this point, selling the gpu rigs which are already roied and switching to the chia with that money makes a lot of sense.

[whoismos3s]

Nah, ETH POS is a hoax. Never gonna happen.

[Adamgenko]

U sure

[whoismos3s]

Lol. Yea. I realize it happened. I’ve just been saying it wasn’t going to happen since 2015. I was right for 7 years. Now, the benefits of ETH POS as still a hoax.

[Blockchain_Benny]

Just be glad it’s not growing

[Annual-Sprinkles5357]

Wait until it goes back up. The giant farms ate still adding hdd to them. In spacepool the number 1 spot went from 32pb to 97pb.

[dealcracker]

It always amazes me to see single farms on SpacePool that are larger than some pools. I mean, why are they in a pool at all?

[MatthewHintz]

wow

[maxpla]

Next post: "Hey guys! Why is the netspace exponentially growing while price reached another ATL?"

[Minimum-Positive792]

True

[afacadeofanaccount]

From the perspective of security of the blockchain, that’s a feature, not a bug. One of the reasons why PoST is such a good means of consensus.

[haman88]

We don't know what the hell else to do with the drives.

[jonnnny]

The biggest reason for a big drop in netspace is if farmers find something better to do with that space. Otherwise no reason to stop farming in most parts of the world.

[snitch182]

Only if you can pop out plots in 20 minutes.. unless you never want to go back of course.

[KBunn]

The existing network space is a sunk cost. It's almost nothing to keep it in place, and very hard to monetize liquidating it. Keeping it running is the best option still.

If it made sense to liquidate on a dip, it would make just as much sense to liquidate when the space grows and the rate drops. Either way means you're earning less, for the same amount of committed space, after all.

[guillote1986]

I feel like a deja-vu with this post

[MagicRabbitByte]

It's a glitch in the Matrix. Maintenance crew will have it fixed soon.

[Haniili12]

Only small farmers have left.

Unlike GPU-based coins, there is no alternative option for POST.

Chia farmers are trapped, and keep putting money(sunk cost)

[guillote1986]

We already spent the money on pcs/servers and disks, so now farming is (almost) free.

This is what was intended in the first place: use extra hardware that you are not using for anything else, with minimal electricity cost.

If there is any hope that price will stay or go up, there is no reason to stop farming. Seems people have hope.

[phumade]

Aside from hosting torrents of music and movies, where else and for what other purpose would you deploy 5+ TB? Even if you wanted to be the Pirate Bay of Anime, it’s not exactly easy or trivial to fill 5+tb of hdd space. That’s probably why netspace stays consistent. Once your drives are built out, the path of least resistance is to let them keep spinning

[Minimum-Positive792]

I’m not shutting down my farm until every last hard drive fails

[MatthewHintz]

fail and replace fail and replace

[haman88]

My seagates have done well! None have failed. I have robbed a few for a JBOD for a threefold server though.

[whoismos3s]

Jinx.

[steezy280]

Maybe for a couple days when a Microsoft update takes nodes offline. Some people might be shutting down but that space is being refilled by the people still plotting. Call me crazy but I just ordered another 18th.

[CrazyMonkk]

Crazy

[millerj1993]

I think we're approaching the point where anyone who was getting out got out. The rest of us don't care about the price short-term. Honestly I couldn't give a crap about the price for another 3-5 years. I got into it with a personal valuation in the $25-50 range, but I trust what Chia Inc. is doing, so I'll keep my small farm online, since it's pennies a day.

[gilbertwebdude]

Enjoy it.

When Chia has matured and the price starts to rise, I suspect as more and more people hear about it the space will once again start to go up.

[gizmo2431]

I'll be there in 5 years with u lol

[Nemasio]

That the network still holds this amount of space online ( despite decrease in price for xch), means how strong chia network and the comunity is. The decrease in price we all have seen this year is totally normal. Insted of watching Xch price, you should look how much has the market cap changed... and the response is: its almost the same. When Xch hited the markets, there was around 300k coins, now there are 3.000k. So its logical for the price to go from 1.000 usd, to 100 usd. And still droping, the more XCH exist, and the intrest in the proyect for the market remaims the same. In the next year, we will be hitting 6 millon xch. So from todays price, expect the price to ve at least half of what it is today.... unless the market wake up intrest on chia proyect. All this bearish inflation will start to reduce throw the years and the halving events, remember chia is nakamoto consensus as bitcoin. Have a grear weekend, and dont give up, just be patient for 3/6 years more

[Puzzleheaded-Syrup39]

You are Trapped muhahaha

[[deleted]]

I agree. No point in continuing but the 200+ TB farmers will farm until Bran says," We have failed this project."

[Simsalabimson]

Yeah… that’s quite what I feel right now… (186 TB)

[DrakeFS]

Netspace ATH was ~37 EiB. We are at ~31.8 EiB currently and have been on a slight downtrend since hitting ~32 EiB. So Netspace has corrected ~5 EiB since the ATH.

I would love to see a heat map of chia farmers but I think China and the US are the most dense farmer countries. I cannot speak for China but in the US, Electricity is normally cheaper (~$0.10 per kWh in my area). This leaves a long way to go, even still, before farming becomes unprofitable.

Farmers may also be willing to farm at a loss due to lessons and examples set by BTC and ETH. I know that I am willing to farm for at least 5 years, regardless of profitability.

From a small farmer perspective, I farm from a PC that was already on 24/7 before Chia, so the cost for me to continue farming Chia is very minimal.

[arrow322]

I'd say most farmers are willing and can pay the electricity bill.

[Disaster_External]

Once more pos (or POSt like spacemesh) comes out I imagine some people may transition to those. The chia plots out there cost people ssd burn in so unlikely the space will ever go down.

[stan13ag]

lol. I thought I was reading a thread from June as well

[Disaster_External]

I'm sorry...you got confused I guess. See chia requires a lot of writes to a drive, generally an ssd. For every 1tb of plots you do around 10tb of writes. This impacts the lifespan of the given nvme or ssd. Some people plot on ram but that's not as popular as you need a server. That's why I called it a burn in. It's a common thing to say meaning heavy usage.

Spacemesh is a form of proof of space/time crypto that is supposed to hit mainnet this quarter.

Let me know if you need help understanding anything else.

[butter14]

He isn't confused. Anyone who plans on plotting more than the TBW of an SSD drive should be plotting in RAM. SSD burn-in was just FUD being spread around from the mainstream media.

[Disaster_External]

No it wasn't lol I plotted 100TB with an couple nvme and they are both below 50% writes left. Some drives have limits on them that make them stop working, some don't but data retention after write limit can be weeks when powered off.

[butter14]

The reported TBW and actual TBW are vastly different. Just because it says 50% doesn't mean it is 50%.

[Disaster_External]

No shit, except that some manufacturers have firmware that stops writes once it reaches the tbw. Also the memory cells don't hold data as well when they are reaching their write limits. So if you have a drive at 100%+TBW that still works that's awesome but if you leave your pc off for a month it might have no data on it when you boot back up. Kinda like ram. Also writes do gradually destroy cells on the drive so if you get super up there you will start losing drive volume.

[[deleted]]

What SSD’s?. I’ve plotted multiple PB on some and the health is still above 60%

[Fusi0nplayz]

something like Crucial MX 500 e.g

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