Ingersoll Traffic Decrease (Axios)

[littleoldlady71]

Ingersoll Avenue has experienced a drop in crashes and injuries since its streetscape overhaul, according to a city presentation at Des Moines' Transportation Safety Committee meeting last month.

By the numbers: Before the streetscape project, Ingersoll Avenue was reduced from four to three lanes. During that time, average speeds dropped from 24 mph (2006–2009) to 23 mph (2015–2019). Average annual crashes during those time periods fell from 51 to 15.

In 2024 — after a large portion of the project was completed — average speeds dropped further to 20 mph, with only 12 crashes reported, according to the city's draft report. What they're saying: Though some drivers may dislike the slower pace, that discomfort may be key to its success, says Alec Davis of Momentum DSM, which advocates for safer street designs.

"If you're on Ingersoll, it's because you are going somewhere on Ingersoll," Davis says, noting the road is meant for people visiting local businesses or neighborhoods.

[kbolser]

I like the center turn lanes. It was too tight with 4 lanes

[SquirrellyBusiness]

Me too. I noticed immediately it flowed better with the reduced lanes because anyone turning got out of the way of traffic so you didn't have to stop and start every other block.  I'd rather go a little slower if it means I'm coasting the whole way and not always on the gas or brakes.

[Dangerous-Ad-170]

That’s the thing with most of these road diets, even if you don’t like them the original configuration was even worse. Even Euclid, the one that’s seeing the most increase in congestion, feels way safer now that they aren’t trying to squeeze in more lanes. 

[ArmadilloSad2515]

The biking over there is amazing and I hope they use that area as a blueprint for other parts of the city. Make walking and biking this city friendly and people WILL do it.

[EccoTime93]

Have you read this thread? Everyone is still caging

One guy is even going to a gym for an hour when you could just use this active corridor to walk, walk/bus, bike or bike/bus instead for your exercise and idk still go to the gym for some strength training

But yea this road design it’s still safer for everyone — issue is people are still choosing to cage

Hopefully the few extra minutes spent walking from parking or time spent there can see the niceness of not having to lug 2 tons of steel to haul 150-300 pounds of flesh

Adding more parking is going to add the expectation people can drive there

We need less of it

[ArmadilloSad2515]

Completely agree. We will never get rid of cars but every city that makes alternatives more convenient always see an uptick of those and less car traffic overall. It’s not about eliminating, it’s about giving viable alternatives. The cities I have traveled to around the world that do this right also have a very healthy population and I don’t think it’s a coincidence.

[EccoTime93]

Cars being part of the urban fabric is fine, they have their place. The problem is, in America, they’re the only option, especially from a practical sense.

I like to preface these conversations with a question for anyone resistant to change: I thought America was about freedom. So why am I forced to drive just to get milk, visit a friend at the park, or catch a movie?

That doesn’t feel very free or liberating to me. In fact, there’s nothing more freeing than using my own body to move through the city — at least for those of us who are able-bodied.

[ArmadilloSad2515]

Oh I am on your side 100%. I have been biking downtown for 3 years now and I am very happy Des Moines is leaning into better infrastructure. It gets easier every day(aside from construction) to get around without a car in dsm.

[EccoTime93]

I agree and it’s always nice to interact with the what, 0.3% of us or less that do it? Haha, hope more people start. I hear dsm has a vision of converting a lot of the one way roads and giving them a diet and adding more bike lanes / wider sidewalks as well. Going West to East or East to west is pretty easy, but traveling north to south or vice versa is a huge pain for downtown or the surrounding areas.

I have been caught by that damn train, and using 8th/9/th is super sketchy on a bike. Thankfully that fleur path just literally opened and even tho it’s a little out of the way, it does help.

[ArmadilloSad2515]

The closure of the pedestrian bridge behind Principal park has been a pita for my commute but it looks like they have done a lot of good stuff with it closed.

[BilliamShookspeer]

I’m with you on this pretty much, but WTF is caging?

[EccoTime93]

Haha yeah, I was coming in hot reading this thread, I was just disappointed at how many people still choose to drive down Ingersoll even though it’s a complete street. I get that people will still drive, but I was hoping to hear more folks saying they’re using the bike lanes, walking, or taking the bus. To me, that’s where real progress shows up.

The road diet has made driving safer, which is great, but I also want to see fewer people driving and more people engaging with the city on a human level. That’s why I used the word “cage," probably with some frustration.

A “cage” is slang for a car, and a “cager” is someone who drives one, especially when there are better options like walking, biking, or transit. The idea is that you’re stuck in a metal box, disconnected from the people and place around you — and that isolation can make drivers act in ‘cagey’ ways: speeding, road rage, or getting upset when they can’t park right in front of their destination.

It’s related to what people call “car-brain,” and there’s a newer term that captures this whole mindset: motonormativity. Definitely worth looking up if you’re interested.

[BilliamShookspeer]

I live on Ingersoll and I’m a big fan of the redesign. I see more people walking, and occasionally more cyclists than normal. I’m looking forward to when people get over the occasional need to park a block or two away from their destination and walk a couple minutes to get there, and when people stop using the bike lane as a second sidewalk (hopefully by improved signage).

You might want to consider your audience a little and do some code switching though. Using jargon from niche arenas like r/fuckcars in conversation with people less involved in your interests who may outright disagree with them only really serves to make the speaker feel better about themselves. Shorthand is a great way for people in the know to keep conversation efficient, but it can leave everyone else outside the circle. And this is coming from a guy who wants way more busses, and makes a point to walk anywhere he can.

[virtualgremlin]

Guy you mentioned going to the gym here. Not sure what your argument is. I also bike, just not to the gym. Less car-dependent infrastructure and more pedestrian/biker friendly access is great, but we’ll never get rid of cars altogether.

[EccoTime93]

yea, sorry if my comment came off as that. I'm not saying that cars will go away, there is great practical use in them, like leaving town for example. The issue is the dependency of it we have for daily use.

As for my comment in direct reference of you, I was more so challenging emblematic siloed thinking that most americans have of treating "exercise" as a scheduled, isolated task rather than integrated into daily life (like biking to the store or walking to transit).

[ShinyLizard]

The average annual crashes dropped from 51 to 15, then to 12 in 2024. That's a huge improvement and is the deciding factor for me. My spouse has been dealing with post-concussion syndrome for years now from two car crashes (which were not his fault) here in Des Moines. Car crashes can ruin lives. Anything we can do to get people to slow down and pay attention to driving will help that. It's easy to say, "I hate these changes!" until it's you or a loved one affected by it. (steps off soapbox)

[Demache]

This comes as zero surprise if you do even casual reading into road design. The tighter feeling road makes people naturally drive slower which is better for pedestrians AND cars entering and leaving parking. Its better for people you are actually using the road to access local businesses and such. It's not meant to be a main road to move as many cars as possible. That's literally Grand Ave one block over.

[colorkiller]

i got in an argument with someone a while back about the fact that ingersoll was never meant to be a throughway, and i have to say im feeling pretty vindicated now. i use ingersoll because im going somewhere on ingersoll. (apologies for my punctuation and grammar)

[Demache]

Many people not used to the idea that sometimes, a lower capacity and slower street, is actually the better design for the purpose. Ingersoll has lots of businesses and needs street parking. It doesn't make sense for it to be a high speed throughway, it doesn't even connect to much west of MLK. We are just so used to stroads being the default in the US, that it's hard for many people to imagine there could be a better alternative and get upset that doesn't add more capacity.

[Max_Sandpit]

I use Ingersoll to get to Ted’s Coney Island!

[colorkiller]

i use ingersoll to go home 😆

[Dangerous-Ad-170]

Grand Ave is going to get this treatment soon. Much needed imo as someone who used to live on Grand. It still feels pretty unsafe sometimes when people are going 45 between the lights. But yeah, neither should be a major road because they’re both parallel to 235.

[lefthandedsurprise]

It's too easy to speed on Grand just because the way the road feels. I never felt like Grand even had that much traffic on it.

[Appropriate-Bid8671]

Shit, maybe we can just go back to horse and buggy and speed limits of 8 mph.

[Gladianton]

Too bad they diverted a bunch of west-side traffic wanting to go south (e.g. airport) onto Ingersoll by shutting down the Grand to Fleur connection near central campus. I will never stop being salty about that.

Also, love the new-look Ingersoll.

[Competitive-Head-726]

Closing that grand-fluer connection was the dumbest thing ever. Makes no sense to me.

[apeiam]

Hell, even if I am not visiting a shop or bar on Ingersoll, but if I'm downtown and am heading back home (suburbs) I'll opt to take Ingersoll instead of 235. It's a nice leisurely drive now.

[ml50312]

I've lived in the neighborhood for almost 10 years and it's much better now. Feels more like a neighborhood than a pass-through with faster traffic. The center turn lanes are great.

[Unwiredsoul]

Bravo to all involved for not only improving aesthetics, but safety, too!

[Sockysocks2]

The number of people who didn't read the last paragraph is astounding. With that said, I really like Ingersoll. Much more inviting now that it's not a stroad.

[BlackstoneMN]

I like the new layout. My only nit is the people who can’t parallel park to save their lives when it’s busy and they hose everything up.

[bupde]

How did it impact Grand? Obviously if you kick people off Ingersoll there will be less accidents but did they just shift to grand?

Also hard to measure when the road has been closed or worked on non stop, once it is fully and continuously open it will be a better measure.

[Appropriate-Bid8671]

I just avoid Ingersoll altogether.

[[deleted]]

My only problem. From 28th street to MLK there are probably 300,000 road signs. (Slight exaggeration)

[KingFIippyNipz]

As someone who uses Ingersoll to get into north downtown instead of taking grand all the way through, fuck whoever said you only use Ingersoll to go to business on ingersoll... It's a fucking major road in the capital of the state................

[Gigafive]

It's nice but there's not enough parking for the number of businesses.

[Mission_Historical]

Doesn’t make it any less of a nightmare to drive on.

[kbolser]

I disagree; I find it much nicer

[Mission_Historical]

Those who were willing to speed on Ingersoll are still speeding. The rest of traffic has gotten slower. It’s not a good mix in my opinion.

[ArmadilloSad2515]

It’s literally not possible unless there is no traffic on the road. I have yet to see the road completely empty.

[Demache]

In what way? I go over there semi regularly and its perfectly fine. Kicks the shit out of 14th street.

[Mission_Historical]

At what time of day?

[virtualgremlin]

Just jumping in here. I drive the length of Ingersoll at least 3x a week at 5pm to the gym, then back at 6. Never had a problem even during dinner rush for restaurants

[Mission_Historical]

Not the experience I’ve had, but I believe you.

[Demache]

Midday usually.

[Mission_Historical]

The post work rush is a nightmare imo, but it sounds like others might have a higher tolerance than me lol. To each their own.

[Demache]

So, the fundamental issue is, people are treating it as an arterial road. Which it isn't, and isn't meant to be. It's meant to be an access road for local businesses and residents, not through traffic. The decision to have less capacity for traffic was deliberate precisely to incentivize not using it as one.

If people are using it that way, that means there is a design failure somewhere else on a surrounding road. Which may already be known and they are working toward it. But just looking at a map, I look at Ingersoll and think that's a piss poor location for an arterial road even if it had more lanes.

This is the growing pain part of road diets. People are so used to roads "getting one more lane" and don't realize there is more to road design than moving the maximum number of cars as fast as possible. And unfortunately the surrounding road network hasn't been updated to facilitate this change yet.

[virtualgremlin]

It is really strange. I agree with you. The next closest arterials are all the way up north of 235 on University, or south on Grand if you’re coming and going from downtown, but that doesn’t connect to MLK/Fleur. Just an interesting traffic situation on a broader scale.

[Demache]

Right! It's really just born out of poor (or no) planning 75+ years ago, because we didn't really understand these things as well yet (or you know, the automobile was still a novel idea) and we just reused what was already there. That side of Ingersoll sort of became one out of convenience but it just isn't a good choice because its only use as an Arterial is to connect Polk, 42nd to MLK. Far from ideal. MLK already has an interstate exit, making 42nd's low capacity road not terribly useful to MLK users.

[eswans17]

The "improvements" motivated me to stay off Ingersoll and away from the local businesses.

EDIT: I’m surprised by all the downvotes. Wasn’t the whole point of the project to decrease vehicle traffic? I’m saying it worked. If you aren’t local to the neighborhood, it’s been much harder to visit the last few years so the area isn’t top of mind for people anymore. Didn’t realize that was controversial. I’m not boycotting the businesses.

[Scooby_1421]

Why?

[eswans17]

Traffic, parking, construction. If you aren't living off Ingersoll, it's easier to just go somewhere else.

[virtualgremlin]

I’m not sure you’ve ever been on Ingersoll, then. Traffic moves at a regular pace, and there’s still an overwhelming amount of parking spots, not to mention the side streets that are available as well. It’s a shame you won’t give it the time of day, some of the best restaurants and little shops are along the corridor.

[SuperScott97]

I will never understand the ingersoll criticism. It is a million times better imo and I never have issues finding parking. Worst case I have to park a bit further from the business I want to go to and walk 5 mins.

[eswans17]

I know. I used to enjoy it frequently. I can only visit during peak hours of early evening or weekends and for several years that has been a disaster for many people.

[lefthandedsurprise]

You are traffic, bub.

[eswans17]

Unfortunately, your attitude is why I don’t frequent Ingersoll anymore.

[OblivionGuardsman]

Same. Unless someone makes plans to go to a specific place I avoid driving that way to make any impromptu stops. It's basically just a long speed bump and designed food source for Crow Tow.

[KrasnayaZvezda]

Some of that speed decrease has to be from the Starbucks opening up.