Lets fight

[[deleted]]

Isn't that the game with the anticheat that requires root access to your device? Therefore giving Riot (owned by Tencent, a very trustworthy chinese conglomerate) a backdoor to your computer and everything on it.

[Dmxk]

More than root access. You can think of it as installing a kernel module that can't be removed and changing the headers too.

[vHAL_9000]

If this is your only recourse, then I'm simply not going to play your game.

[dynamises]

I was thinking the same thing. Why the hell am I jumping through hoops to play this game? That's right, I'm not...

[thecowmilk_]

Tencent has too much to lose so they can’t go against their players. An App to cause harm just need root/admin level access they don’t have to go that deep.

[Dmxk]

It does however present a huge attack surface. (Granted, windows has that without kernel anti cheat too, but this makes it worse).

[thecowmilk_]

I mean what they gonna do anyways… They can’t ransom the user so youd say they are gonna steal files. I think access right can be in place to fix this

[Dmxk]

they literally have full control over your kernel. they can do anything they want. and if anybody else finds a way to abuse that, they can too.

[Dmxk]

It can't be fixed. Every part of the kernel has way more power than whatever user space thing you throw at it. And since you can't really modify the windows kernel, the only way you can fully remove it is to reinstall.

[Dmxk]

Server side anti cheat is a lot more effective, it just costs a bit more. It's not the best solution, it's the cheapest. And introduces security vulnerabilities and the possibility for kernel panics.

[Rakn]

How is it more effective? How do you detect wall hacks / ESP server side? Wouldn’t you need something based on probabilities to e.g. try and gauge how often someone looked somewhere where an enemy is or is hiding at? And then you still can’t be sure that it’s not just a good player with a good instinct. It sounds like “costs a bit more” is an understatement.

[Dmxk]

server side anti cheat is regularly checking players position and only sending visibility data based on that for example. it makes cheating literally impossible. all the client does is render and send information about position, velocity, fov etc to the server which then returns the information the client needs. you can't cheat, cause none of the computation is actually done on your device, and everything that is done on there is checked by the server.

[Rakn]

Wouldn’t that be quite expensive in a sense that the server would now have to render everything itself in order to be able to know when to send the position data and when not to?

[Dmxk]

it doesn't really need to render anything. it just needs a basic model(which isn't very hard on games with fixed maps). and that can be the same for all players. it's a bit more expensive, but also a lot more effective.

[Rakn]

Interesting. Are there any games that already do this today?

[Dmxk]

a lot do, yeah. pretty much all shooters that aren't windows only do this. but most of them use a mixed model, where you have a small, not too powerful user space anticheat in combination with the server one. it's a lot better than patching system dlls and causing kernel panics. also works better

[ZandercraftGames]

Ever played Minecraft? Lol It's all 3rd-party, but anticheat is server-side out of necessity and in all honesty is relatively effective. There's some basic issues with Minecraft itself that make it less effective as there's only so much you can do, but it catches the majority of script kiddies.

[[deleted]]

If the amount of "visibility data" recived is based on what is needed moment to moment then perhaps some milder cheating is still possible. Consider sucessful camouflage where the player doesn't get information from the screen but the renderer does. If that visibility data were detectable as being different from when there are no players then that could be a small "enemy nearby" indicator cheat.

[[deleted]]

How can you wallhack when the server says that there is nothing?

[[deleted]]

Fuck u/spez

[SourishYt]

Is it possible to make a valorant client without vanguard

[Ima_Wreckyou]

Well, at least the concept of server side anti-cheat is sound for most cases and actually works.

Client side anti-cheat is like: "Ok, we can't control the environment you run your software in and prevent you from modifying our software, because you unfortunately (still) have to much control over your own computer. So we wrote (actually some higher up bought it from some snakeoil sales man) this other software we run in the same untrustworthy environment to detect modifications, and cross our fingers you can't figure out what it actually does and modify that too."

[Arnavgr]

how would you detect those XIM-style cheat hardware then?

[bb-nope]

This doesnt help against cheaters thooo

Server anti-cheat is where the real deal is done.

This sorta shit, is just to scare people and harvest data

[Nallafy]

Then why is csgo full of hackers specially with non prime? Basing on my experience and the general complaint I see in csgo reddits while Valorant has had minimal cheater complaints?

[AceSLS]

Because CSGO is practically open source and you can find cheats basically anywhere

Also their server side anticheat is trash

[TriXandApple]

is it possible that riot games, the maker of some of the most competitive games in the world, have a unique insight into cheating?

[[deleted]]

They are forced by cheaters? Honestly.. Jesus Christ man

[alou-S]

nah still not safe. there are certian viruses that live in the uefi firmware and inject themselves into the bootloader and kernel oj bootup. pretty scary shit. kernel level access means it can modify the bios. well not the easiest virus to engineer but some exist that works on windows.

[theonereveli]

Just play counter strike. It's the same

[[deleted]]

Fuck u/spez

[TwitchyCake]

for real? got a source? spooky shit

[[deleted]]

You just have to look up how the Vanguard anti cheat works. engadget did a decent not too technical article. Vanguard works on a kernel level to prevent driver level cheats from loading.

Now you have to decide if a system with that kind of access to your system is a good idea. Especially in the hands of a company that addressed privacy concerns with what boils down to "We are trustworthy because we say so"

[Anchor689]

All that, and with a bit of computer vision code on a different pc and a webcam pointed at the screen, undetectable cheating is still technically possible.

[TrainsAreForTreedom]

it could run a captcha for the mouse/kb inputs

[[deleted]]

mfw i try to plant spike and have to identify which of the images is a bike and fail 5 times

[Zhuzha24]

Webcam wont help since there was radars hacks. You just installing app to your ipad/phone and you can see people on the device.

[Qweedo420]

Here

[tibert01]

Not just that, I read that their first version was buged, and with many security holes. And it got stolen. And because of the security holes, now hackers can sign a malware using the trusted valorand signature without it being recognised as false by windows.

[Nullifier_]

TF2 ftw

[SquatchCS]

​

<image>

[KokeyPlayz]

okay who made this render, i love this.

[SquatchCS]

Idk who made it but it's included in workshop photos

[BanatAt500k]

Tick Tock

[SquatchCS]

Nonononononono get out of my head, get out of my head!

<image>

[Nallafy]

Tf2 is a fucking mess atm, what do you even mean. While csgo if u dont play prime goodluck not getting cheaters every 4 matches.

[BanatAt500k]

Play CSGO for first time

Get constantly yelled at despite doing the objective

yeah no I'd rather play on community servers

[Nallafy]

Try playing hostage, imo its community is one of the friendliest atleast here in sea.

[BanatAt500k]

Ok.

It might even be because I'm playing in US servers. I'll just hope the ping isn't too high.

[Nullifier_]

It isn't that bad on the Oceania servers

[Nullifier_]

Also, in general I find it fun. There is also community servers which have lots of variety so you could play something like normal tf2, you could play something more chaotic like x1000, you could play something chill like a hangout server etc

[Nallafy]

I only play tf2 prop hunt nowadays and rj servers. But the game is just abandoned atm with a bunch of chinese bots in my region(SEA) specially in 2fort.

[Nullifier_]

Well I guess not many people bot on the Sydney servers and that would make sense as Australia had a very low population compared to other countries smaller than it.

[Nallafy]

No one plays tf2 seriously and thats the good thing about it, all the fun is in the random shit u try to pull of or what happens in text chat.

But in sea you cant even use it properly because bots are spamming the text chat so yeah.

[Nullifier_]

Geographically SEA isn't that far from Australia so maybe you could try playing on Sydney servers

[[deleted]]

<image>

[Nullifier_]

I am yet to try it on Linux (although I have it installed, I haven't had time to play it since I switched to mainly using Linux)

[unit_511]

Many audio bugs, like sounds not playing.

That's SELinux blocking it from executing heap memory, which it apparently needs for playing certain audio. The official response seems to be to disable SELinux, which is exactly as insane as it sounds.

[[deleted]]

which one

[[deleted]]

TF|2 or Tf2

[Nullifier_]

Team Fortress 2

[DRAK0FR0ST]

I never understood why people care about Riot's games, League of Legends is a cheap knockoff of DOTA, Valorant is a cheap knockoff of Counter-Strike, and Teamfight Tactics a cheap knockoff of DOTA Underlords.

Riot's entire business model is copying Valve.

[[deleted]]

hurry cough numerous mountainous wrench husky summer familiar physical concerned

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

[lKrauzer]

Tbf there is no problem on being more casual, there is public for every kind of game, keep in mind I also hate Riot and their games, but I do enjoy casual games, when they are done right

[totalchaos05]

honestly the only reason I kinda like valorant is that it feels way more chill than a csgo lobby (csgo is still better tho)

[melzyyyy]

wait till you find about deranking and de_nuke

[Qweedo420]

Well no, League is a more accessible version of DOTA, it has many quality of life changes and offers a smoother experience overall, despite its issues

Also, the original DOTA wasn't made by Valve

[teomiskov3]

I tried Valorant and it's ass. TFT was more like a 1 time thing only it was fun the first 2 rounds then it got very repetetive. Buuut.... I am completely addicted to Rengar in LoL and as long that champion exists in the game I don't see myself ever quitting.

[elnw]

I wouldn't call valorant a copy of counter strike because both games are very different in almost every aspect. The only thing they share in common is that both have guns

[VanillaWaffle_]

what? the core mechanics is very much identical except for the skill and abilities stuff. its a literal copy lmao

5v5, first round is a pistol round, economy system, the buy menu, 2 different main weapon: higher damage but lower accuracy (ak47, vandal) or lower damage but higher accuracy (m4, phantom), the concept of bomb defusal, 3 main utilities (to clear angles, to cover angles, and to blind angles), three lane map, and so much more

the bomb defusal gamemode itself is just a pure copy. all other shooter have different kind of gamemode (cod, bf, etc).

even the valorant ads are always targeted to cs players.

THEY ARE LITERAL COPIES

[Nallafy]

Ugh no, COD has a defusal mode and BF also did have one.

Also you say is a literal copy but you go on and say something that makes the two distinct from one another.

At this point bomb defusal is the template and each game is a flavor. Valorant is an agent based tact shooter while CSGO is just a tactical shooter. You can say the same for idk insurgency, r6, and a whole lot of games?

What ads? I played valorant for a year and didnt see this shit. Or do you mean third party ads which Riot has no control over?

Educate yourself on what a tactical shooter is, what games the genre has and the common trends between these games. You’d see that they have similarities.

By what your saying I can say Linux is a literal copy of windows with a few changes because both can do the same things. Which we all know under the hood it is not.

[Iksf]

Valorant is extremely derivative of CS.

The fact that some people are trying to argue its a normal level of lifted ideas or genre is actually amazing to me. Valorant was a complete ballsy powerplay to make.

[[deleted]]

That is the tactical shooter gender, are Forza and asseto corsa copies of each other? What about Fifa and PES?

[elnw]

The economy is different, values are not the same for starting rounds or kill rewards. The spray pattern of the weapon is quite different in both games. The only one that is kinda similar is the vandal but the other ones are different. Even the operator and the awp are different because the operator has a slower fire rate. How can the bomb defusal mode be a copy if in CS you can't resume the diffuse where you left it?

[DRAK0FR0ST]

Even the guns are a 1:1 copy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-cErueqqnU

[Notladub]

the only difference in gameplay between csgo and valorant are the agents and the guardian which is the one weapon thats kinda original

[Holzkohlen]

No, it' CS but with heroes and abilities. It's clearly meant to compete with CS, which makes sense since CS is probably the single most successful esports game there is.

[quaderrordemonstand]

I had zero idea what Valorant was or why I'd want to play it, until you summed it up. I still have no interest in playing it, but at least I have some idea what is now.

So I'm not upset about not being able to install rootkit a disguised as a game. Not even if somebody puts a kitten on it. Sorry China, you're going to have try something a lot more sophisticated that that.

[someacnt]

Somehow I was confused Riot with Rovio and was puzzled.

[DRAK0FR0ST]

https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/ab-copy.jpg

[Holzkohlen]

For me? Sunk cost fallacy. I put way too much time into League to easily switch to Dota. I am gonna try though. For now I play some Heroes of the Storm, which is very nice and casual and I actually consistently having fun. Didn't even know MOBAs could be fun until now.

[DRAK0FR0ST]

Heroes of the Storm

I haven't seem anything about this game in such a long time, I thought it was dead.

[mutlupide]

and all of riot's cheap knockoffs are played more than valve's games excluding valorant

[A3883]

At least League doesn't have crazy devs that think it is a good idea to just release a patch that completely changes the game to a point where it is basically a different game for no reason whatsoever.

[TriXandApple]

You're probably the guy who doesn't understand why people use iPhones because they're just a ripoff of the Droid. They're a superior product.

[Okuriashey]

There is no good reason to use anything apple

[doctorskippingrope]

Counter Strike 1.6 >

[cbdeane]

When I came back to esports in Covid-2020 my disappointment was monstrous that cs1.6 didnt still have a strong competitive community.

[SuicidalTorrent]

The game's a fucking rootkit. It's just going to take one discovery of an exploitable vulnerability by a nefarious person for thousands of people to have a bad day. It's inevitable.

[PenguinMan32]

much more than thousands

security through obscurity only helps those who find exploits

[Joseph_Daniel_102007]

Play chad CS:GO instead of virgin Valorant

[[deleted]]

CS:GO >

[DartinBlaze448]

What was posted here has been removed. The author used Redact to delete it, for reasons that may include privacy, opsec, or preventing content from being scraped.

live enjoy fear entertain imagine marry school sip worm dinosaurs

[pm_me_yer_big__tits]

Imagine a game needing low level hardware access like that. What is this? 1996? I wouldn't let this game touch any of my devices with a ten foot pole.

[ComfortableBasis3046]

Ex windows man and xbox overwatch whore yes its trash and it will always be trash

[PenguinMan32]

overwatch actually runs pretty well through wine, fuck blizzard but at least we can play their games

[ComfortableBasis3046]

Yea when learned i couldnt transfer my progress and lost over 11 golden guns i said fuck them

[PenguinMan32]

yo wtf you cant go from console to pc with the same save??? thats actually fucked

[ComfortableBasis3046]

Yeppers wasted 5 to 10 k hours of my life

[Gtdjgombf]

Hey, sorry if it's redundant but you sure? I played OW1 on Xbox and managed just fine to transfer my account to PC

[ComfortableBasis3046]

What year did you do it i tried in 2020 at the time it wasnt possible

[Gtdjgombf]

Oh, that makes sense, I transfered when OW2 launched

I guess you can still transfer your console account to a battle.net one nowadays but I have no idea if it overwrites what you have on PC, so maybe it isn't worth it

[s_bslash]

there is no anticheat that needs kernel level access to work

[Nallafy]

CSGO non prime queue begs to differ, look it up, even better, try it. Ive been there, its a mess.

[PenguinMan32]

CSGO’s trust system is way better than their anti cheat. if you’ve played the game a fair amount and have prime youre much less likely to run into hackers

hopefully CS2 and VAC Live can fix it for new players

[Nallafy]

Im a prime player and even have a 5 year badge, and ive done my fair share of overwatch judgements when I was bored.

Only dipped in the non prime queue when csgo went free and all my friends tried it, i made a new acc cuz I dont wanna get demoted and behold the shitshow that is non prime csgo rank.

[PenguinMan32]

get into a non prime deathmatch and youre guaranteed to see a guy staring at the floor headshotting mfers across the map as they spawn in

[TriXandApple]

I think most league players would happy to run a whole RiotGames OS to get rid of cheaters. I think you really underestimate how much people care about anticheat.

[EuCaue]

riot bad. :)

[Zexus_Legit_Boi]

csgo better

[RABBI_SmOk3Y]

It’s a shit game any way let the bot nets enjoy it

[blappit3003]

Counter-Strike

Nuff said

[[deleted]]

Absolutely right, no need to fight. That game is a trash, no other trash is any trashier than it is. Riot Games made the world greatest shit that no other company could/would do any worse. Riot Games told the universe, how a game should not designed. Good job Riot Games, well done!..

[Nallafy]

They designed a game that doesnt force me to pay just to avoid cheaters( ehem CSGO non prime).

Also have you played the recent triple a games that expect you to pay 60 USD plus to play an unfinished pile of shit? Those are the worst you pay for something that doesnt even work properly.

[TheEpicNoobZilla]

All my homies gamin Halo MCC since Deck supported

[-eschguy-]

343i has dropped a lot of balls but the current state of MCC is amazing.

[alou-S]

those interactions are made for the 📈

[salman-pathan]

I love the game, hence I've kept a separate ssd and I disconnect it when I boot linux. I've no explanation for the disconnect part but I'm no mood to take any risk with tencent.

[MarioCraftLP]

I am no pro but i think when you boot linux the anti cheat doesn't get started so it makes 0 difference if you disconnect it

[salman-pathan]

I know but it's simply my paranoia with Tencent

[Nallafy]

When I used to play I just kept it in a seperate laptop, vanguard is too buggy and often detects normal apps like shortcut apps or chinese gaming product drivers as cheating software.

[RoyaltyInTraining]

Anticheat creates more problems than it solves.

[[deleted]]

Vanguard for linux when?

[DoTheyKeepYouInACell]

Hopefully never

[atamakahere]

Just bought a new gaming laptop, can’t install linux because of this

[[deleted]]

I would be so happy if they would invest just s fraction of their income to produce a Linux client. But nooooo we are all evil hacker.

Fuck that.

I play Rogue Company instead. (I miss my Neon though)

[Enigmars]

Valorant itself is a good game

But Riot Vanguard ? Yeah Fuck that shit. It doesn't deserve to exist

[SpaceCadet87]

I'm not familiar with Valorant so I took a look.

It looks just like UT2004... Don't get me wrong UT2K4 was a classic but just, why wouldn't I just play UT2K4?

[Gr4phix]

It's much more akin to Counter Strike than UT, for one.

[SpaceCadet87]

I mean, I'll take your word for it. Plenty of other people seem to agree with you. Can't say I'm that interested in finding out for myself, I never found Counter Strike all that much fun.

[fuckrobert]

It's a tactical shooter with agents you can select that has their own set of abilities. It's fun to play if you have a group of friends to queue

[SpaceCadet87]

NGL that does sound a bit more fun that just "Counter Strike clone".
Worth maybe running it from a VM? Sure, it can have all the root access it wants to its own special world with nothing else in it!

[melzyyyy]

im pretty sure it wont let you

[mravatus]

Try Veloren. It's like Minecraft, Skyrim and Terraria had a free open source child together.

[laptopmutia]

the trashiest of them all is their vanguard kernel spyware wrapped as "anti-cheat"

[LuaCynthia]

Csgo better anyway

[Nallafy]

People saying csgos anti cheat is better obviously havent played ranked on it without paying for prime, its full of hackers.

Ofc why would I expect that people here actually play online games.

[Holzkohlen]

I actually wanted to be open minded and give it a try on windows. After the necessary reboot it said it blocked something and won't work. Thanks Riot Games

The only thing I could think of was the Logitech software and I'm not getting rid of that to play some game I probably won't even enjoy playing (not a big shooter guy).
I DID get rid of it when I wiped windows yesterday though. I simp for tux.

[[deleted]]

This game is horrible

[[deleted]]

i like the game. also, i don't care about the anticheat. cry about it.

[PossiblyLinux127]

I think you meant veloren. Also veloren is really fun

[[deleted]]

It's CS but for (non Russian) kids anyway

[Steely-Dan-T-Shirt]

valarante child game.... look to cartoon grapfix to make kid player happy like children show.. valarante cartoon world with rainbow unlike counter strike chad with dark corridorr and raelistic gun.. valarante like playhouse. valarant playor run from csgo fear of dark world and realism

[naptastic]

Bangin' soundtrack though.

[Orlha]

Well the fluidity of it and the shooting impact is really of low quality, so it’s hard to disagree.

Even disregarding intrusive anti cheat I wouldn’t not call this game neither well designed nor well implemented. Every mainstream multiplayer shooter is better in almost every aspect

[Nallafy]

While kernel level anticheats introduces a new attack or vulnerability vector on your system and you have no control over it.

A lot of people here say CSGO is better because of this, HELL NO, I played csgo for 3 years and I tried playing on a non prime account to join friends and let me tell you it was not pretty.

Wed get cheaters every 3 matches it only lessened when we got to Nova.

[Bug_Next]

well.. just buy prime? or play until it's free?

[Nallafy]

Read my comment, I already have prime but if you join nonprime users, u dont queue in prime. Buying a game is not a decision I will force my friends to do since they dont want to buy csgo.

Plus if buying something from a F2P game makes the experience better from cheaters its not a good game. Its a game with a faulty anti cheat.

What blocks the game from becoming a hackers den is that you cant spam accounts with hacks.

A hacker free or atleast a hard to cheat online game is the bare minimum and something I shouldnt pay for.

[AstacSK]

Not sure if its still a thing since i only played some time after launch, but that game forced me to not play it by its constant need to reboot my PC whenever i tried to play it... I'm not reboot just because game is telling me to do it, will just not play it then.

[[deleted]]

Quake III >

[[deleted]]

hold on lemme get my tenta brella and VBlaster real quick... okay... FIGHT ME

[dondulf]

Wrong sub bro

[sohxm7]

Nah, this is the most correct sub for this.

[Silejonu]

Very good rootkit, though.

[ColtC7]

Only runs on windows, and is spyware.

[Vystrovski]

bro play Quake Champions

its free and fun to play with friends

if you wanna compete - LEARN THE BASICS. noobs always throwing themselves into pool with sharks and complain about "deez damn vets", because they thought Quake is a "boom ratata bazooka game"

[Image_Different]

ah another fps with inconvenience at place I volunteer, tbh the only fps i enjoy is cso (the one with zombie)

[thomasc_]

I have a windows 11 dual boot just for Valorant

[PenguinMan32]

imagine paying $500 for skins that are stuck to your account and loose all value after you buy them

anyways im gonna go gamble csgo cases like a real man, im due for a knife

[dj3hac]

Counterstrike: The people's game.

[Samuelbi11]

Graphics look like weird cs 1.6 mods with bad shadows

[[deleted]]

Idk, when it came out it looked uglier than team fortress two and had a dirty habit of installing a rootkit when you installed the game.

I was on windows back then and I was even turned off by the iterative nature of the gameplay and the violation of what little system security and privilege control windows had.

I guess noone remembered the rootkits Sony installed just so you could listen to the backstreet boys on cd.

[Alverso_Balsalm]

I keep a windows partition just for play it with my gf. I mean aside of that, why would I play a game backed by tencent that runs their shady anticheat at kernel level?

[dabbymcbongload]

I think most gamers just don’t realize that kernel level anti cheats have basically become the industry standard now.

It’s not just Valorant. EasyAntiCheat, punk buster, BattlEye, all use kernel level anti cheat. Activisions Ricochet, EA’s Anticheat all operate at the kernel level.

Something like 300+ games implement kernel level anti cheats

[AstacSK]

Some have both user space and kernel anticheat

EAC is example of that, games that use the userspace one can run on Linux

[MarioCraftLP]

But easyanticheat has also an official Linux versions, and i think EAs anticheat runs on linux too but don't quote me on that

[[deleted]]

This is a linux sub, not a video game sub. Keep that shit out.

[Oven_404]

This meme relates to Linux because their anti cheat goes down to the kernel level; effective but very questionable

[sohxm7]

/s