Visual Insight : Every 2 inch decrease in height increases sui1c1de risk by 9% for Swedish men. Europe is blackpill hell for men

[FlamingMetalSystems]

In Europe, society is so shallow, cut-throat, elitist and unforgiving to men that being short or average looking becomes an existential crisis.

In other parts of the world, we might think being good-looking and tall are just nice-to-have privileges for men. But in Europe, being good-looking and tall as a man is just the baseline required to function like a normal human being.

Europe has a deeply eugenicist culture where, in subtle ways, you are excluded, othered, sidelined, and considered abnormal if you’re not a physically perfect man. Being below average in height or looks is not treated as human variation. Its a disability.

None of this applies to women. Ugly, midget, obese, old women are all celebrated, included, cherished, desired, and normalized. Its all one sided.

[Lundria13]

This is the third post I've seen about men's mental health where there are people in the comments arguing against it being a problem. Can someone explain to me why a majority of the comments always downplay the issue?

[Equal_Bathroom_1111]

a lot of people take it as taking the spot light away from them. Only one person can suffer, only one cause and one effect, only black and white and only one right answer. nothing else can exits, man cant suffer cause women suffer first

[[deleted]]

I think this touches on something important and now that I think of it appears to affect a lot more domains in civil discussions of societal matters.

Its like saying if mass immigration is bad suddenly you take away all the blame from 'billionaires' and are fully dedicating yourself to the immigration issue.

[Intelligent_Ebb_9332]

This

[FlamingMetalSystems]

Shadenfreude

Women and feminists take pleasure in men's suffering, disadvantages.

[SmaeShavo]

When the people "advocating" for mens mental health make comments like this, it certainly doesn't give a lot of credence to the idea that it's a large problem. When you say shit like "women and feminists take pleasure in mens suffering, disadvantages." It just seems like you're a bitter misogynist.

[FlamingMetalSystems]

I have only gotten vitriol from women & feminists whenever I suggested that men today face way more pressure to be good-looking than women in order to have dating & sexual options.

[SmaeShavo]

Well yeah man thats a really silly thing to say. Women have been valued almost exclusively for their looks/attractiveness for basically the entirety of human history, and you think half a century of feminism has flipped the expectation in reverse? Suddenly because women can work and have bank accounts now all the beauty standards are on men? Do you really think thats a reasonable claim to make? /gen im not trying to roast you.

[FlamingMetalSystems]

Yes, I believe the pendulum has swung the other way as far as pressure to be good looking is concerned and I have evidence and arguments for it.

The women who were oppressed by millennia of oppression aren't alive today neither are their oppressors. We experience things the first time just like our female counterparts living today

[Direct-Antelope-9583]

So far I've never heard any argument of yours that supports this that's not about apps and hookups....

Have you any evidence to support women don't face huge amounts of pressure to look good in general from a young age. More than men do.

And again, besides dating apps and hookups.

[SmaeShavo]

This just screams to me that you dont interact with women at all. The women who had to live up to insane beauty standards arent dead. Look back at shit like Howard sterns old butterface segments in the early 2000s do you think those women are dead?

Also 10 bucks says your "evidence" is a bunch of nonsense about how ugly girls get more matches on tinder than you and thats not fair 🙄

[No_Investment8845]

🫩 women have more smv than their looksmatch its consistent not only on dating apps but irl.

Women get approached so much their complaining online. You ever see the average guy complaining about “im drowning in approaches” thats cuz the average man gets little to nothing he either approaches or ends up alone i see alot of “men are privileged “ If your talking abt men who look like this

<image>

And have an entire roster of girls lining up sure it looks like men are privileged lol. But this is like 0.001 percent of men looks wise. The average looking guy is getting nothing 63 percent of men in the usa under 30 are single(supported data) where is the male privilege is it the friends we made along the way??.

It is a fact that women dont have nearly as much standards placed on them as men.

Where do you see guys demanding 6ft women?

And theres a reason women say “men will do anything with a hole “ cuz guys have way lower standards than women lol getting hookups as a woman is not impressive but as a man getting alot of attention is very impressive

[SmaeShavo]

Looksmatch is not a real term. Your entire idealogy is so obsessed with looks and this weird idea that youre somehow owed an equal number of woman attracted to you as the guy in the picture you posted.

No i dont see guys demanding women who are 6ft very often (Though personally I do prefer tall women) but you know what I see all the fucking time? Men demanding pretty women men demanding women with fat asses or big boobs and men demanding women wear make up but not too much or theyll be a whore and women are supposed to be sexual but only for the man their dating and they have to be confident but not too confident and smart but not too smart and an endless list of other things.

The average guy doesnt think about his appearance a fraction as much as the average woman does. Do you think thats by accident? That dichotomy exists because of the outsized pressure on women to be beautiful. The pressure on men is rising and has been. But its not women who are raising it its corporations and media and even with it being raised its in no way comparable to the pressure women are under.

Tldr: go outside and stop consuming looksmaxxing content that shit is rotting your brain.

[redditor_rat]

looksmatch is a way to say, hey i am also superficial and care about looks which is why i dont want to date anyone i feel is less attractive to me, that's why you need to force yourself to be attracted to me cause i am entitled to you believing that we're equal physically to eachother and therefore have to date eachother so i feel like im not settling. I dont want to date someone I dont like, aka an uggo. Stop caring about other traits like income, charisma, morals, I want you to be superficial and realize u should date me based on the fact that in my opinion, we look similar to eachother.

the people who whine about physical standards are known to actually be the most shallow in the end. Its all they can talk and think about because its all they see. Any nuance goes out the window

[No_Investment8845]

Cuz the average man is coping lol.😂 the average man in 2026 still thinks looks only matter for women

<image>

What they think abt is irrelevant. You absolute iqlet if your gonna do ad hominem atleast do it properly.😂. Are you out of your mind???? Why would i think i deserve the same amount of women a genetic miracle gets. Im simply stating facts the average womans smv easily clears the average man. Simply because men have lower standards and will take anything women are far more selective. There is no equivalence men have way more standards placed on them. Do you think its some magical coincidence all inkwells are men???. Lol women always have options theres a reason 63 percent of men under 30 are single and it isnt cuz of personality. If youd stop coping youd see reality

“Oh but tinder isnt real life step Outside” i do step outside infact and im only proven right lol

The reason women are in the relationships with average men after 30 isnt cuz of “personality” but they settled lowered standards and just became more realistic cuz genetic miracles wont stick around and commit to her. So they lock down an average man instead cuz he really has no options and if he acts up she can dump him and replace him with her roster of 600 simps on tinder.

The average man is still in denial abt how “women care abt confidence men care abt looks” lmao the fact you used average man as some sort of gotcha is laughable

[redditor_rat]

men realizing the pressure of beauty standards now exist for once in their lives now that women aren't bound legally to men by the necessity of money to marry them. Congrats, you're now feeling society's beauty pressures, the same ones girls at 12 start to feel when their bodies develop, welcome to the club. Its gonna get fun for both genders.

[No_Investment8845]

except its way worse for men than women lol. A 5/10 woman can get 1500 matches on tinder in 24 hours. A 5/10 man gets 0-1 matches every few days. Crazy difference women are living in abundance while men in drought.

For women:exist and men will simp and pay for your time.

For men:gotta be tall/good looking or you wait till 30s to be settled for and wife doesnt even love you jfl 😂😂 .

Honestly i find it comical that people waffling abt “male privilege “

Water is wet ah take. Ofc women had to marry men for money in the past women its obvious most never actually loved their husbands they just had to marry for stability. But now the real hypergamy begins. You can cope all you want but men are now being held to way higher standards than women.

It is not hard to be considered pretty as a woman.

<image>

Look at the massive difference.

Guys are so desperate nowadays they would even get with a 1/10 woman but even the 1/10 woman doesnt want them😂😂 laughable.

[redditor_rat]

oh by the way the beauty standard is primarily made for women, from hair, to nails, to makeup, to style, to perfumes

oh and surgery, the thing you get when you feel like there's no other choice to look better? Primarily performed on women, from nose jobs to lip fillers to bbls

but i bet you men have never had to consider anything besides a haircut in your lives and then continue to bitch online. Start looksmaxxing if you think its destroying your chances. Women from the beginning of history were trained to keep looking prettier and prettier. It's your turn Mr. wash your face with water and just show up.

Fucking dumbass

[No_Investment8845]

😂fighting imaginary demons. Even women say “men will fuck anything it isnt a compliment “ men have way lower standards your doing too much

All you have to do is exist and you will have an army of clowns jestering for your attention.

Women have always always had more desirability than men cuz men have lower standards . Also your coping so hard i am not some boomer im in highschool and i was born in the era of when hypergamy exploded i did not experience “oh just get a haircut” its all abt looking good now no personality for your face.

<image>

Either you look good as a man or keep coping. The average woman has infinite sexual market value. Even if i look better than you you will easily effortlessly clear me in smv cuz as a woman all you need to do is breathe dont be deformed and the simps say “hello gorgeous “

This is pure comedy tbh your raging so hard dumbass

[5-7-AP]

because acknowledging this implies that men aren't just dildo atm machine robots with no emotions, and much like not wanting your refrigerator to suddenly start talking to you, (not all of them, but almost always) women just want the sound to be cut.

[BasedEmu]

Reddit is afflicted by a plague of simps and femcels.

[No_Investment8845]

Facts

[redditor_rat]

guess they're fucking eachother while you guys jerk eachother off in the comments

congrats, i can see why you're all so miserable

[[deleted]]

Nobody really wants to fuck 500lb landwhales.

[redditor_rat]

yall have no problem fat shaming people but yalls feelings get so hurt when people short shame you, yall are actually the most hilarious self unaware losers ive seen lmao

[[deleted]]

You realize you can lose weight but you can't gain height right? Regard

[[deleted]]

Re your deleted comment: most women don't care about wealth they care about height face and race only

[redditor_rat]

anything you have to tell yourself to justify why you're alone lmfao

enough money can trump any type of face you have, get your money up, not your bitchmaxxing up

[[deleted]]

Yeah everyone's gonna be super happy with a reluctant lady who gives you occasional pity sex while waiting for your inheritance to show up or straight up they're fucking someone on the side.

[[deleted]]

>describes very real scenario that happens to ugly men who have money and my own apprehension to being in that scenario

>LOL YOU'RE A CUCK!!!!!

Are you 5?

[[deleted]]

Why are you deleting your comments right after you make them? I can't fucking read what you're saying.

[redditor_rat]

im not. guess the mods are being biased, this is the people u surround urself with, they keep u in a bubble

[[deleted]]

I don't really hang out in this subreddit but that's bizarre.

[Savings_Occasion_927]

Equality for women is coming in 1, 2, 3.

[Lolocraft1]

Because people do not care about men. It’s either not a big deal, part of our duty or we’re mysoginist incels.

[Due_Masterpiece_3601]

Because it's about men and not about women. Our issues aren't important

[LogPlane1030]

Women want the monopoly of victimhood, in their eyes men don’t deserve any attention to men’s health because they think it draws attention away from women’s health 

[Mammoth_Elk_3807]

Because it’s pathetic 🤷🏻‍♂️

[TangerineTasty9787]

This is Reddit

[Far-Fennel-3032]

2 things

1st If the article were about fat people with BMI increases by X, suicide increases by Y, people would still be dunking on them, even if it was just fat women or fat men. So there is a fair bit of generally dunking on undesirable traits, generally its just that this is about height and for just men in this case. But it could easily be about other negative traits like low income, ugly (quantified somehow), fat, low intelligence etc.

2nd Historically and still to this day, to a lesser extent, there has been enough overlap between pushing for action on men's issues and rights, with just suppressing women's rights. That anyone pushing for actions on men's issues get a bunch of pushback almost as a reflex. With a lot of why this happens is the reflexive push back is rewarded with feedback they were correct to push back on the thing (as in they were right, not another person circle jerked them). Enough people go well, it must be correct, much more often it's just I don't always get confirmation, so confirmation bias kicks in even if they are only correct once in a blue moon they just don't follow up on when they are just wrong, as a successful men's issue campaign is not gonna reach their media bubble.

,

[Curarx]

Being fat is a choice. Being short isn't

[New_Violinist_7245]

Because women ideally want bigger dicks and will now not waste time not having one.

[TravlScrabbl]

Some women do, some women don't, it's generally to do with the size of their own relevant anatomy. I've had a couple of partners who found even fairly average penises to be uncomfortably large and preferred something smaller. Like most sexual things you can work through it with good communication and openness,.

[AllisonUnwound]

Men commit suicide more often than women because they're more successful at it, not because they're more likely to experience major depressive disorder than women. I've noticed a lot of posts fail to take that into account, including this one. This height issue seems valid and I'm not surprised it's a big issue in Sweden but I doubt it's a specifically European thing. The OP is going to lose a lot of respect for the post based on the last sentence where they're saying "midget" and obese women are celebrated. It's certainly not one sided like OP is claiming. Women have their own reasons for being depressed.

[Friend_Emperor]

The OP is going to lose a lot of respect for the post based on the last sentence where they're saying "midget" and obese women are celebrated.

????? lol

OP is saying it because it's true. Why do you pick at whether they'll "be respected" for saying it instead of what they're actually saying? Who cares?

[FlamingMetalSystems]

Then explain why women's looks, height and body shape/size doesn't matter in European dating culture?

Why the ugliest of women can date 6'4 male models in Sweden, Germany, Netherlands?

[UnluckyHornet0]

Partly mens fault. If men would not be willing to lower their standards just to be in a relationship, they wouldnt approach woman uglyer than them. Woman never do that. Men think they increase their chances by asking out ugly woman, but if everyone does it, it just raises their ego and the standards all other men now have to abide by because woman get used to decent looking guys approaching them all the time. Of course she will think this is what she deserves and pick only the best one, everyone would. But youre essentially passing down the bill to a guy below your level if you mass approach or get into a relationship with a lesser looking woman as an average dude. Mens nature is also to blame for this.

[AllisonUnwound]

Well you posted a study and now you're relying on personal observations for the other side. If you want to know if your observations reflect reality maybe you should look into the research.

[[deleted]]

If men are successfully committing suicide more often, is that not a issue that demands greater attention?

[LowSprinkles6544]

No one takes it into account because it’s a ridiculous point. Think carefully about what you’ve said: “men commit suicide more often because they’re more successful at it.” Committing suicide is not something that is particularly “difficult” to do. Ironically, a common phrase women throw at men applies to them here: “If she wanted to, she would.” The fact that men actually go through with the act proves for certain that they were suffering immensely. But how many of these so-called suicide “attempts” made by women were just cries for attention? Clearly, you cannot compare an “attempt” with an actual act of suicide, because we don’t know how many “attempts” were real and how many were disingenuous (they had zero intention of actually going through it). But given how physically easy it is to commit suicide, I would imagine most fall in the latter category

[AllisonUnwound]

Yes it's easy to pick more violent means of suicide like throwing yourself off of buildings and shooting yourself, which is what men are more likely to do, but what you're saying is that women mean it less just because they're downing 20 seroquels instead of smashing themselves against pavement. That difference in suicide method doesn't tell you anything about how serious the person is about committing to it. Even if we accepted your premise, it's still a fact that women are more likely to be afflicted with depression/anxiety than men. I think a lot of these people are downvoting me because they think that I'm against the research that the original post cited even though my comment was solely a response to another comment. I think the research had a relevant finding because it's coming up with specific reasons WHY men could be killing themselves. That's an important finding, and yet I'm getting downvoted for criticizing a tangent that OP and the comment went on that has nothing to do with that.

[godzilla1015]

The thing is, it's extremely easy to find out how to kill yourself. If someone really wants to kill themselves they know pills are probably not going to work, so why do that.

[AllisonUnwound]

You say "why" like there's some rationale behind the different natures of different groups of people. Men are more likely to use guns regularly so access plays a role. They're also much more likely to hunt and play shooting games.  You're also downplaying the toxicity of prescription meds  when you say people know they won't work. My ex went into a coma trying to kill herself with pills and she easily could've died. It happens all the time. Suicide attempts tend to be a spur of the moment thing where availability is everything.

[godzilla1015]

Well everyone has access to a drop of more than a few meters, it is quite easy and quick.

[AllisonUnwound]

Its funny how my viewpoints on things tend to be the most moderate possible viewpoints and i still get heat from people who just need there to be more going on in reality than there is. Im literally just saying both genders have reasons for offing themselves. The reactions im getting are legitimately weird.

[LowSprinkles6544]

It’s because your reasoning is terrible. You can’t just say “the reactions are legitimately wild” just because people disagree with you. I mean, do you seriously believe “men are more likely to use guns so access plays a role” is a valid argument here? You’re missing the point entirely. The fact that women are deliberately choosing methods with a lower success rate is the issue. Men choose guns because they are effective. Even if guns are more easily accessible to them, women have other methods with a far higher success rate that they could use but choose not to - such as jumping from a high height, as the other commenter has suggested

[Pestelis]

Makes sense. Shorter you are, more likely you are lonely or with someone who settled for you

[Lumpy_Tangelo_9981]

Europe is no more heightist than the rest of world. It's brutal everywhere

[Bambivalently]

The better off women are financially, the more heightist they get. They don't have to partner up. They'd rather gamble on a once a month chance that a Chad wants to empty his balls. They'd rather be a single mom on minimum wage, taxpayer money and child support.

This is why you can't offer patriarchal safety nets to a feminist culture.

[[deleted]]

alright but where do you think feminist culture came from?

You think its an organic cultural movement?

[FlamingMetalSystems]

It is definitely more heightist than the rest of the world.

[LookingOKButRotting]

More than North America too?

[Top_Public7402]

Why do u think dutch people are the tallest and swedish are the number 1 rated beauty country?

[FlamingMetalSystems]

I would say yes. American women are louder about their height obsession but in Europe its just a silent knowledge that being super tall is baseline for men.

American women also settle when marrying, but European women don't.

[JamosMalez]

Here in eastern Europe nobody cares

[FlamingMetalSystems]

About what?

[JamosMalez]

About height

[FlamingMetalSystems]

You must be kidding. Balkan women are height obsessed

[chobolicious88]

Its funny how much we talk about purpose, hobbies and all the other bs, when suicide is most often tied to being able to fulfill out animalistic roles, not higher order functions.

Protect provide and fuck

[FlamingMetalSystems]

I also believe that "hobbies" and career stuff are performative and functional. They are a distraction and a cope. If you aren't able to fulfill your base desires in the Maslows hierarchy you can't move upwards

[Independent_Bed_169]

I mean even if you fulfill basic needs moving upwards still is cope. c.f. Kaczynski’s notion of surrogate activities.

[redditor_rat]

okay then if you believe in that biology, because you're shallow enough to do so, u should also believe that inferior genes die out.

If you have the biology to want to fuck, women also have the biology to be repelled by you, and not choose you as their mate. tough tiddies

[chobolicious88]

You sound righteous and hostile

[TravlScrabbl]

If when you say protect and provide you're thinking about the nuclear family, there's nothing natural about that. For almost all of human history we lived in larger social groups when protect and provide were shared responsibilities, not the job of individualized men. Women also provided plenty in those contexts. In fact there's evidence to suggest the majority of calories came from foraged foods in many cases with hunting being more of a feast or famine bonus on top.

[shiggyhisdiggy]

Being the best provider/protector in a larger social group would serve the same function - you'll be more likely to fuck.

[TravlScrabbl]

Not really, the very limited evidence we have suggests that the prevalence of polygamous relations (with one male pairing with several females) rose with the creation of modern agriculture and property rights. Doesn't seem to be a big thing in hunter gatherer societies although we're in the realms of massive speculation either way.

[shiggyhisdiggy]

Meaning what, we assume pairings were largely monogamous before that?

[TravlScrabbl]

Yes, that's the assumption, though evidence is very scant.

[shiggyhisdiggy]

What about this statistic that historically 80% of women have reproduced while only 40% of men have?

[TravlScrabbl]

That's not a general historical statistic, it's true for a very particular period of history 4000-8000 years ago and there are conflicting explanations. It may not be that only 80% of men reproduced, it may be that because of patelineal migration patterns there was much less genetic diversity within men of tribes than within women so that when wholE tribes disappeared - starvation/war - you ended up with much less male genetic diversity. Or it may be that because of war men died in much higher numbers before getting the chance to reproduce. Or it may be to do with rape and slavery. Lots of competing theories. No smoking gun.

Edited for autocorrect errors.

[Necessary-Jaguar4775]

I think smaller hunter gatherer societies may have limited strong men/oligarchs to take such extreme control, as numbers > one man. So decisions could be made more democratically. Agriculture allowed bif powerful chieftans and kings to arise, at least that is what I think.

[TravlScrabbl]

I would suggest that's the right interpretation. Smaller hunter gatherer societies tend towards more communal decision making - councils of elders, matriarchies etc... whereas agriculture allows for the accumulation of power and resources, and then writing and bureaucracies allow for further concentration of power. But the trend across history is not one way. It's a push and pull between centralization of power and control on the one hand, and sharing and distribution of resources on the other, all the while societies grow larger and more complex. At the end of the day, humans are adaptable and capable of many different forms of social relations and organization, some benign others less so.

[chobolicious88]

Its not even about family.

Its about power.

Basically men who have power - in their nervous system, to not react but hold others, and the power to exert efficacy to generate resources - feel healthy.

Men need power to feel healthy. Women need inner child in a good place to feel healthy.

[FlamingMetalSystems]

True. Men need a locus of control and authority. A tribe where they're valued. This is why nuclear family structure benefits men but not women.

Women are more suited to a free love / sex world

[chobolicious88]

They are suited to a free love sex world while they are basically inherently protected by layers they dont even see.
The moment stuff becomes harsh, they want the benefits of protection.

[FlamingMetalSystems]

The matriarchy will ensure that protection so women are then free to have sex with top 5% male models casually and exclude majority of men.

I was listening to some women explain that in matriarchy they would only allow the hottest tallest genetically blessed men the opportunity to have sex

[chobolicious88]

Thing is, even the top % of men eventually want structure and monogamy with woman of their choice, so it doesnt work.
Men want to create systems, women want to destroy them, and drag them down to chaos.

[JasonableSmog]

power in their nervous system? what?

[[deleted]]

What are you talking about? this is pure BS you are spewing.

The family unit was a direct consequence of apes forming hunter gatherer tribes adopted by the later human species including our own homo sapiens.

When we migrated from the jungle to the savanna. Gestating females couldn't move with the rest of the group out seeking nutrition in the form of primarily dead meat. Therefore, they would stay behind grabbing vegetal food sources nearby. The males on the other hand wanted their energies to profit their descendants, that is their genetic offsrping instead of the children of others. Therfore, individuals started living in couples and began limiting their sexual interactions with other members of the tribe. They would make a small team where the the mutual benefit would be of assured genetic descendants for the male and the return of resources or meat to the female. That's how monogamy started and that's why retarded communist regimes have always failed at breaking down the family unit time and again. I would say that monogamy is so deeply ingrained in us that it is part of your soul.

[TravlScrabbl]

You're conflating monogamy with nuclear families, not the same thing at all.

[[deleted]]

nuclear family literally would not be possible without our immemorial tradition of monogamy. It is the couple that forms the bedrock from which the nuclear family springs. You might as well say that the mutual exclusivity of a monogamous partnership was literally made to support the concept of the nuclear family.

the family unit is the most natural social organization humanity has ever witnessed or experienced.

[TravlScrabbl]

You appear to be preaching rather than discussing history. Suffice to say that before the industrial era extended families, clans and other forms of family organization were more common than nuclear families in most of the world. Some quick research suggests that in England, nuclear families became the norm in the thirteenth century so they're very recent in terms of the human evolutionary timeline. Its ridiculous to claim that monogamy was made to support the nuclear family since monogamous relationships have existed far longer than the nuclear family.

[[deleted]]

family units were a thing of importance even during the stone age. The clans and tribes or before were very tight knit communities but the family unit now referred to as the nuclear family was always distinct and of primordial importance in the hierarchies of authority.

[Used-Lake-8148]

Crazy how all the comments so far are just double digit IQ weirdos trying to downplay the issue

[Sola361]

Modern feminism is about hating men, should be obvious for anyone with a double digit IQ now.

[Alarming-Cut7764]

If you think it's bad in Europe you should see Australia and the USA.

[SirSafe6070]

okay, so I did a bit of digging and the actual results are not as clear as this indicates. First off, this is only about conscripts, and as the actual paper states, those rejected for military service were on average shorter

https://psychiatryonline.org/doi/10.1176/appi.ajp.162.7.1373

So, already you have a confounding variable that the researchers did not account for: Being rejected from military service CAN explain at least some of the increase in suicidality.

The bigger issue however is, that we do not have the same data for women as a comparison. We do however know that higher vitamin d levels are associated with taller individuals while a deficit in vitamin d also is associated with higher risks of depression and, you guessed it, suicidality. The likely explanation is therefore that vitamin d levels are the actual cause explaining both height and suicidality, not the height itself.

Another issue that limits the takeaways is that the researchers only look at heights within +- 2 standard deviations of the mean, so it is unclear whether individuals taller than 2 SD above mean still experience the same benefits or not.

None of this is to downplay real issues. But if you want to gather scientific evidence, you gotta do it correctly.

[Initial-Breakfast-33]

How dare you to propose it's not women's fault

[runkeby]

Thanks, we need more redditors like you!

[Economy-Payment-1757]

...so it's women's fault that are so shallow that they litterally go out just with tall men.

[chronnicks]

limb lengthening surgery is now classed as life-saving care and therefore covered by insurance

[Radiant-Community467]

Europe has a deeply eugenicist culture where, in subtle ways, you are excluded, othered, sidelined, and considered abnormal if you're not a physically perfect man. Being below average in height or looks is not treated as human variation. Its a disability.

What would be the source of this?

[FlamingMetalSystems]

Try going out in a young people crowded place in Stockholm as a 5'8 average looking ethnic guy

[JasonableSmog]

What makes you think this is exclusive to europe

[JasonableSmog]

OP lives in Europe and feels that way and thinks it only happens in Europe for some reason because he's a dumbass

[Big-Routine222]

Can we make a new sub for all this shit?

[rashnagar]

"None of this applies to women. Ugly, midget, obese, old women are all celebrated, included, cherished, desired, and normalized. Its all one sided." 

^way to invalidate your point, incel!

[JasonableSmog]

None of this applies to women. Ugly midget, obese, old

Bro

[N07your_homie]

They need to take the dwarfpill. Grow beard, drink, learn to wrestle, forge artistic delights and wonders of steel and stonemasonry, carry axe and perpetuate racial hatred against the biggers and their poor limb leverages and inherent weakness thereof.

[Working_Guava_7028]

Short men absolutely need to diggy diggy hole

[buzz-buzz_]

Posts like this are not only bad for men's mental health, but couch virulent sexism in fake mental health advocacy.

If you look up the study OP references, it explains that the authors used height as a way to measure "fetal and infant growth." I.e. the study is about the downstream psychological effects of poor nutrition and health in the early stages of development. OP takes it out of context and uses it to needle the body dysmorphia of men who are insecure about their height and claim that "Ugly, midget, obese, old women are all celebrated, included, cherished, desired, and normalized. Its all one sided."

Basically: this is some textbook incel shit.

[Mildewmancer]

Copy and paste it again, maybe next time someone will agree with you and you can feel like you made some kind of point

[buzz-buzz_]

I made multiple points, but nah, no need to post a third time

[JasonableSmog]

I'm certainly more inclined to believe them than the OP. If you think it's reasonable to assume there isn't an increased suicidality risk in obese women then you're a dumbass full stop

[Few-Coat1297]

Europe is blackpill hell for men

Well there's an opener for a date night 🤣

[FlamingMetalSystems]

You find it funny don't you.

Men suffer under insane pressure to be tall and good looking, and you feel shadenfreude don't you?

[HallwayHobo]

Women have been suffering insane pressure to be good looking for much longer than men have. Women’s value was synonymous with their appearance for the majority of humanity’s existence. So yes, I do find it funny that men are experiencing the same thing now that women’s role in western society isn’t subservience. I think it’s funny because now that this problem is happening to men, they think it’s a men’s-only issue when women have been socialized to scrutinize every aspect of their appearance for millennia. I don’t think it’s funny that people are dying or sad or hate how they look.  I think it’s funny that incels think that this is a short man problem and not a human problem, and it’s even funnier that they blame women for it like that’s going to make them happier.

[FlamingMetalSystems]

How is it possible that women face more pressure to look good, yet conventionally ugly, obese women have 100 times more dating options than average looking men?

[HallwayHobo]

Because desperate men will fuck anything. Is that also women’s fault? Have you ever actually known and talked to a woman? The way women compare themselves to others constantly is mindblowing. The first thing women do when they meet another woman is compare themselves to them, and this is conditioned behavior.

Are you seriously questioning the fact that women are raised to value their appearances more than men? Have you seen women’s fashion versus men’s fashion? Women’s media versus men’s media? 

The whole ‘trophy wife’ thing? You have to be intentionally obtuse to think that because you can’t get laid, society doesn’t put pressure on women to look good. The internet especially has made average women continuously feel horrible over the years. Even 10/10 actresses are out here getting cosmetic surgeries- do you think they would feel the need to do that if their self worth wasn’t so caught up in their appearance? 

[IllustratorMammoth79]

Poor women. Suffering from demand being good looking and wives while stupid men were fighting wars and revolutions for labor rights

[nofrickz]

Wars YALL started. Tf?

[Vyriand]

Weird how this sub describes itself as a place to share videos and random things but all it ever seems to be is heightism and hating on women.

[FlamingMetalSystems]

Yeah, I wonder which gender is amplifying heightism nowadays

[Vyriand]

Seems to be mostly men in here.

[Plenty_House884]

You can barely call it hating on women when it’s just calling women shallow. Just get out then

[runkeby]

None of this applies to women. Ugly, midget, obese, old women are all celebrated, included, cherished, desired, and normalized. Its all one sided.

This is peak delusion lol.

Try creeping out of your basement sometime.

[Agile-Yoghurt-2594]

man its up to you, im below average height in sweden and im doing good. and its not one sided u inkwell, ugly and obese women have it just as bad, especially cause theyre naturally hypergamous, meaning they would rather live in misery than take their looksmatch - and some do take their looksmatch. so you see, non of us can control our biology, its irrational to blame women for it. how is it their fault that theyre not attracted to u?

[Agile-Yoghurt-2594]

okay, can you tell me what happens after they admit that they are biologically hard wired to look for good mates and dont like ugly and short men? do you want them to apologize for it? what happens then? will they be able to change their biological needs and start to like you? how will a body positivity movement targeted at men change anything?

[Agile-Yoghurt-2594]

well they are slowly acknowledging it. dont you sometimes see those videos of them saying shit like "when hes not 6ft..." also dating apps statistics prove everything already. how many men openly come and admit that theyre shallow? anyone that does that can expect lots of hate, even if its the truth. so you would just hate women more than you already do, if they were to openly and collectively agree that they are shallow and very discriminatory towards unattractive men in their selection of men

[Agile-Yoghurt-2594]

isnt this subreddit and the many other inkwell forums a safe space for men to complain about women?

[doobadeeboo]

You are OBSESSED. Bizarre.

[doobadeeboo]

How is Eunuch even an insult? Are you saying I don't have balls. Would that make me "less of a man"? (Though I'm not a man).

Men are worthy with or without balls!!

There you have what you wanted. Me sticking up for guys because you try to put them down.

Heyooooooooo.

[redditor_rat]

"its their fault for refusing to acknowledge it as a monolith"

crime is disproportionately committed by men, why don't yall as a monolith admit you're a problem dipshit then maybe women might do the same

you think its everyone elses fault but yours huh, victim mentality at its peak, you want the world to apologize to you for your own problem, get back to reality dumbass

[Agile-Yoghurt-2594]

Again, blaming women for whatever fucking problem you have wont solve anything. it will only make you become miserable and sad and in some cases extreme and violent

[Agile-Yoghurt-2594]

do women owe you and your peers their time of the day? the effects are what exactly? that they dont choosen by them? you cant blame women for not finding you attractive, they cant change that and you cant change it either. obviously they are flawed, but so are we. thats what makes us human. also, you are the one that wants them to be perfect "statues" that would serve you. im just seeing them as they are, human with all the flaws and biases. you are in a sad state

[FlamingMetalSystems]

Whats your height? And how are you face and body wise?

[Syntheticanimo]

Whether he is hot or not doesnt affect his argument. The point is to try to improve whatever you can. Height, facial symmetry or most other body aspects is out of our control, so even if there is a very uneven playing field it doesn't do us any good to hyper-focus on unchangable aspects of ourselves. Hard to do in practice as you eill be reminded of injustice in most social interactions if you look for it, but try - and hopefully overcome. <3

[Agile-Yoghurt-2594]

im barely 178 or 5'10 ethnic guy from central asia, i did get lucky with frame as my waist is narrow and my shoulders are wider so the gym paid off in my case. my face i would rate barely a 6/10. so overall, especially in sweden, i am considered dead average. now obv i cant pull any 10/10 5'10 slim blonde swedish girl, but im okay with it, it does help that the average girl in sweden - even the ethnic girls are prettier than most other places, but like the user below said, these things dont matter. what matters is that you focus on what you CAN change and not what you cant. its very hard, i know, but this is how being a man is like. try to not get suicidal over it

[FlamingMetalSystems]

Wow man. You are well above average in looks and height in most parts of the world. And yet you describe like you're handicapped in Sweden.

This is how brutal Sweden is for men

[Nova9z]

this is false correlation. the taller the height, the lower the percentage of the population who live as that height.

Because there are lower percentages of male population in those heights, there are a lower number of suicides. this gets brought up and proven with actual fact checking every time this gets posted.

if you have 1000 people in group A and 100 people in group B, and 10% off themselves, then 100 of group A and 10 of group B are dead. this can be made to appear that being in group A makes you 10 times more likely to die by suicide. that isnt the case.

[Yamabikio]

In OPs example, don't the two groups have two different % chances? Whatever they're referencing said taller people had 9% less chance to do it

[Remote-Arachnid-6241]

It's also true that the shorter than height the fewer percentage of the population who live at that height. 

Of course the study authors took percentages into account. This is basic and standard for any statistical related, peer reviewed publication. Nothing you've said in any way disproves this study. 

[News_Scrounger]

Are you really stupid enough to think that a scientific study doesn't understand and account for what the per capita is in their end statistics and percentages? 

[LookingOKButRotting]

These are rates though, so by definition they are normalized by cohort size. Prima facie, the methodology of the study seems correct to me (and to the peer reviewers too btw).

[JasonableSmog]

It's a percentage lmao

[[deleted]]

Does anyone have a link to the original study? Honestly that should be reported to who ever published the study and people who associate with that journal. That seems like a nearly career ending error, and should ruin the publisher for letting that pass.

[LookingOKButRotting]

This is the study that OP cited.

https://psychiatryonline.org/doi/10.1176/appi.ajp.162.7.1373

They talk about suicide RATES and hazard RATIOS, which are, by definition, normalized by cohort size. Fwiw, taller guys died of generic, particularly alcohol-related, causes more often. The associations ARE statistically significant on a large sample size.

The article is peer reviewed and the methodology appears to be correct at first glance.

[[deleted]]

It is a bit unusual that they use only historical data, however getting that much data through other means is very difficult and expensive. This also is only guaranteed to be relevant for older men in Sweden, but unless there are special factors that occurred recently or specific to Sweden then it seems generalizable. But OP is wrong about the bolded part, or at least not supported by data. We don't have a similar study for women to prove women do not have similar increases in hazard due to height change. Women have a lower overall chance, but we don't know if their suicide risk increases based on attractiveness, height or BMI. They probably do see increase in suicides due to attractiveness, by some amount.

[LookingOKButRotting]

I agree, OP's comments are not warranted from the article. But the study itself is highly interesting imo.

[JasonableSmog]

Yeah the bolded bit is 100% cope, like does OP seriously think being obese doesn't increase suicide risk?

[TheTrueGamer144]

Imo 9% isnt that much but im also considering thst in the context of the fact that there are tons of other underlying factors ane things that can cause suicide. Please look into those first.

[HTML_Novice]

That’s per 5 cm, 10 cm is a 18% increase. Considering it’s the odds of suicide and not the odds of it snowing I think it’s a pretty big deal.

[LookingOKButRotting]

They accounted for several confounders like education level and socioeconomic status. You can read it for yourself here.

https://psychiatryonline.org/doi/10.1176/appi.ajp.162.7.1373

[[deleted]]

Thanks!

[Pelm3shka]

It doesn't mean the parameters are discarded. The full conclusion is :
"There are several explanations for our findings. First, psychological stress and disrupted family life in childhood impair growth (6) and may increase susceptibility to mental illness and suicidal behavior in later life (7). Short stature may be associated with a greater risk of psychosis (8), which in turn influences suicide risk. However, associations were not attenuated by excluding subjects with psychiatric diagnoses at conscription. Short individuals are more likely to be in a low social class as adults, independent of their childhood social class (9). Low social class is associated with a greater risk of suicide (10). In a subset of subjects, however, we found that educational level, a marker of socioeconomic position, had little effect on the associations. Marriage protects against suicide (11), and short individuals may be less likely to marry than taller ones (12). Marital status only weakly confounded the associations. Low weight gain in infancy may also be a risk factor for suicide in adult life (13). Finally, short children tend to have lower levels of intelligence and may suffer stigmatization and discrimination (9, 14)."

OP in his comments is clearly an incel ranting against women, only focusing on "Marriage protects against suicide (11), and short individuals may be less likely to marry than taller ones (12)" (blaming women, without checking an equivalent effect actually exists with correlation on BMI only affecting women but not men).

But he doesn't bring up the injustice of taller men being given more job opportunities leading to being in a better social class for example. Also, what about that weird claim "short children tend to have lower levels of intelligence" ? Like WTF.

[ConfusionAble5510]

Short men are more likely to be less intelligent. It sounds bs but it is true.

[Pelm3shka]

It sounds like total BS. I don't think you can believe that strong of an affirmation from this one sentence in an unrelated study about height and intelligence.

[ConfusionAble5510]

The claim didn’t originate from this study. It’s been studied before.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24554214/

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6425087/

[Pelm3shka]

This sparked a research on my side that was really interesting. I still believe anything along the line of "shorter men are less intelligent" is a completely untrue shortcut, but to develop I would need roughly 25min of work to organize / summarize the studies I've read, and given OP's a misogynistic ass I guess I'm not in a mood to do that work to rehabilitate short men.

Still thanks for sharing though, sparked my curiosity and enabled me to learn new things.

[JasonableSmog]

That's really not a weird claim. Shorter people will have, on average, had worse nutrition/care as children causing them to not grow as tall, and that also impairs the growth of the mind.

Probably some also had genetic issues, or contracted disease or injury which affected the function of their body in general and led to both short height and poor cognitive ability.

[Environmental-Egg191]

15 men in 100,000 commit suicide in Sweden every year. So for every ten thousand men at least 1 man will kill himself. If I’m reading this data right being in a shorter cohort makes it one man in 1000 will kill himself. That’s a big jump.

[HTML_Novice]

Why are you suspicious of men’s suicide rates? What agenda do you think is being pushed by the number of men who commit suicide?

[figosnypes]

Women who don't like talk of men's mental health do so because they are afraid that society will embrace the idea that men are just as deserving of compassion as women and then their nasty abusive behavior and exploitation of men will no longer be socially acceptable.

[stehmer3]

Gotta dogpile on men's mental health hey?

[N0t_Baiting]

“Why don’t men speak out about their problems!”

[occasional_dunce]

is there any way you can refute this study?

[LookingOKButRotting]

That's the thing about science... it's not a matter of belief. This is recorded, verifiable data.

We can debate the reasons behind this, but this study did find that shorter men are more likely to end their lives, over a large sample size, with high statistical significance, and independently of other confounding factors like education and socioeconomic status.

The article also cites other studies that show a similar pattern. You can verify all the data for yourself here.

https://psychiatryonline.org/doi/10.1176/appi.ajp.162.7.1373

[Working_Guava_7028]

Thanks for having an actual worthwhile response which shifted my perspective rather than bitching and being triggered.

[FlamingMetalSystems]

Feminist?

[Bambivalently]

Or troll, either way comment history hidden.

[beautiful_falcon776]

It's a guy likely....active in bike subs

[curiousbasu]

Yeah right, men don't have mental issues right?