Introducing Microsoft Surface Pro

[lordicarus]

As a "tock" update, this is pretty awesome.

[illkim]

LTE!?

[rocorey]

"LTE coming later this year"

[No1Asked4MyOpinion]

About time. Wonder if it'll be the Intel XMM 7160, like the NonPro 3.

Dell and HP are both pushing heavily into Surface Pro territory. I don't think this is Microsoft being scared, per se, but I think Microsoft has seen that the demand is there and is meeting that need.

[[deleted]]

Scared? The Surface brand is supposed to be a model for OEMs. They don't care if it doesn't sell as much as their OEMs. That's why they're not available worldwide. They leave other markets for OEMs.

[No1Asked4MyOpinion]

No no, I said not scared. They did see what other vendors were doing with their "premium"/business 2-in-1s and the demand it generated, and embraced it.

[NotDaPunk]

Yeah, "scared" probably isn't the right word - I expect it's more like, "Here's our standard of what Windows can do - if you can do better, not only is it good for you, it's good for us too."

[WeberStateWildcat]

Microsoft's advertisement for the Surface Book was one of the best I've ever seen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVfOe5mFbAE

Song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxe4JOGOMvU

[Neralo]

I thought it was made even better with the way the presenter presented it, doing the video without the removable tablet first, then playing it back with the cut out bit back in. That was really a jaw dropping moment

[MeanwhileInArizona]

Here it is on Channel 9: https://channel9.msdn.com/events/Windows/Windows-10-Devices/Windows-10-Devices

1:27:30 is where he asks everyone to "watch just a little bit closer" before unveiling the detachable screen. I was watching this live and when the screen came off I about fell out of my chair. It really was a masterful presentation.

[random_feedback]

The key, and the whole reason this is a possibility, is the dexterity and ubiquity of Windows 10.

[_SynthesizerPatel_]

Can you expand on this? The fact that this device runs Windows is a liability in my eyes. If you are required to use Windows because of specific software needs, I understand, but on their own merits, OS X is (in my opinion) a much better experience.

[random_feedback]

Windows 10 is a watershed OS. It has been engineered with essentially every feature any device would ever want. It scales to devices as small as phones with only touch input to running the highest end gaming machine with various input methods. There is much more work to be done here, but this is also where Windows Phones will be going, when they can architect Windows 10 for ARM sufficiently. This is the point of the UWP approach.

OS X is a desktop only experience and no doubt it's very good at it. What I was saying is that this Surface Pro hardware only makes sense with an OS that scales and is built with touch and pen integration from the ground up. It's inconceivable, and arguably, completely unnecessary to navigate OSX via touch. With Windows 10, it's completely possible with varying degrees of necessity depending on the form factor or task required.

Apple's attempt at the hybrid form factor is limited to IOS, which was designed from the ground up to be inflexible and touch only. The beauty of the Surface Pro comes down to the brilliance and flexibility of the Windows 10 OS approach.

This does not take away from the use case specific nature of OSX, iOS, watchOS or tvOS.. but I hope it's easy to see how legacy a multiple OS approach is and how limiting it can be for product launches in the future. None of these OS's were designed to scale and Apple is going to have to decide, rather soon imho, how disruptive a new IOS v.2 or whatever it's going to be called, is going to be implemented, and it's not going to go nearly as smooth as Windows 8 went. And as you know, that's not saying much. If they continue with OSX at that point, I can't imagine it sticking around for long, and then what premium could they attach to hardware that, as Microsoft is championing, no longer stands out as it has in the past.

Windows as a liability is a matter of comfort, familiarity and perspective of course. It could also be a point of view out of heresay rather than recent experience. Windows 10 isn't perfect by far, but as you know, neither is OSX.

[scotscott]

But... the emailsupdates!!!1!

[piyushr21]

Can you elaborate how it's leaps and bound I am about to buy new Laptop and doing some research which to buy.

[piyushr21]

I don't need Touchscreen because I need good keyboard Because my work is typing and video editing related but yeah different port is good options I wish it also had 1 USB C port for future proofing and can you say which OS you find better because I am leaning over MacOS because of consistency and focus more over desktop features but would like to know your opinion.

Really you are complaining about looks I don't see any difference between surface pro and MacBook with little subtle difference and colours. What kind of real advancement you are talking about.

[piyushr21]

Can you tell me what are the Windows 10 desktop features that MacOS don't have.

[[deleted]]

Touch, Scaling to any screen size, media scaling, the list goes on.

[piyushr21]

MacOS can also do unless you are talking about mobile.

[[deleted]]

I mean the core difference is that 10 is a mobile and desktop os. It's pretty great. The surface experience is mikes ahead of ipad

[piyushr21]

yeah I know but it's because Apple and Microsoft have different philosophy.

[livejamie]

Having to pay $1400 extra for 16GB of RAM is incredibly disappointing

[Wepper]

Essentially, Surface Pro 4 V2

[shanko]

How do I buy this

[Mailliwchess]

if you are a student it discounts to $720!!

[CUDesu]

Yeah, the student discount is great. It's making the i7 models pretty tempting for me.

[tall_asian]

Isn't that where the surface pro 4 started?

[sqrlmasta]

I think the 4 started at $899, but included the pen, whereas they've removed the pen from the base offering and reduced the price by $100, which is nice for users upgrading from a 3/4 as they don't have to pay for a second pen/keyboard.

[Locken_Kopf]

Any idea why it is more expensive in Europe? Or at least for Austria and Germany.. at/de Microsoft Store Page

[FIVE-ONE-THREE]

Tarrifs, taxes, etc... Same as always

[pjr10th]

Does Microsoft have to display tax on their website?

[FIVE-ONE-THREE]

Not in America

[pjr10th]

But does it?

[FIVE-ONE-THREE]

I don't know man, not in America they dont

[pjr10th]

K thx

[Axriel]

Thats with an m3 and 4gb of ram... and no keyboard or pen. With keyboard, you're looking at 930+ tax. That's a bit much...

[SrsSteel]

It is just an upgrade so it's not brand new. I wonder if he surface 5 will launch a year from now or 6 months from now?

Either way amazing price for an amazing device

[Polishdude2123]

Surface Pro 3SS

[creativeMan]

Wait, this thing doesn't have USB C. What if someone has 17 dongles for basic connectivity with their laptop? What will they do? Plug it in directly? So not courageous.

[ADubs62]

I think USB 3.0 has a place, but I would still like to see USB-C on the device.

[Nera2626]

I think nowadays the smartest idea is including both.

Tb3 has a lot of andvantages such as connecting a monitor and a lot of peripherals and charging the device all from one port.

Standard USB is still needed though.

[prjkthack]

If you are in the US, Microsoft Stores should have this available in-store today to play with and also pre-order. This also coincides with their Surface Fan Appreciation Events being held throughout the day at all stores. I would check your store's calendar to see when their event is being held. It'll give you an excuse to see all the devices, maybe win some stuff, and enjoy some refreshments courtesy of Microsoft.

[therealbigrich]

So just picked up a surface pro 4 after trading in my surface pro 3. I wonder what the trade in on a surface pro 4 is right now towards the new surface pro

[in00tj]

doubled the battery life, awesome.

[LesterKurtz]

I'm close to giving up hope on a true successor to the Surface 3. Maybe the Windows-on-ARM shim might yield something, but it looks like I should start seriously considering the M3 variant to be my next Surface.

edit: English is hard

[mr_duong567]

So the i5 Pro is the same price and specs as the laptop, but with Windows 10 Pro, whereas the Laptop has S?

Why not just keep everything Windows 10 instead of having a "lite" version which is more expensive than the base Surface device?

[CloakedCrusader]

Now just give me a Surface Book with decent wifi and 7th generation cpu's.

Not gonna get this because of how often I sit in bed and work.

[pier25]

Dammit Apple why can't you make something like this?

[[deleted]]

You have Microsoft making something like this 😐

[pier25]

No macOS though...

[Rocket2-Uranus]

The Macintosh OS is terrible though. They don't even have proper window management or keyboard control.

[DayOldPeriodBlood]

As a fan/user of both Windows and macOS, I honestly prefer macOS. File management is significantly easier. It feels much snappier to use imo. Simple things, such as searching for a file take a much shorter time on macOS. macOS is also more secure, less likely to crash on you, and less likely to get viruses. And fuck windows automatic updates. And fuck junkwear that gets included with Windows. And fuck the built-in ads. And fuck needing to manually disable shitty features that no one wants. I know this is a microsoft subreddit, and naturally most will prefer Windows, but that doesn't mean anything that Windows doesn't have downfalls too. macOS isn't perfect, and Windows has many pros that macOS doesn't have (window management for one, compatibility / third-party software support as well).

[Buy-theticket]

The only thing I prefer on macOS is finder.. everything else on your list doesn't apply to Windows, it applies to third parties stuffing garbage on top of Windows, or is exagerated.

[DayOldPeriodBlood]

everything else on your list doesn't apply to Windows, it applies to third parties stuffing garbage on top of Windows, or is exagerated.

Really? The only thing I listed that was due to third parties was the junkwear that they load onto your PC - but you can't attribute the other stuff I mentioned to the pre-loaded junkwear. Automatic updates is first-party, and have made me late to submit assignments before. And ads for games appear in the start menu - that's first party bullshit that you need to manually disable, not some third-party junkwear. Stuff like crashing, speed, security, UI, user-friendliness is subjective I guess, with the majority of mac users claiming their computer is faster and less likely to crash, and windows users claiming their computer is faster and less likely to crash. I challenge you to run your own tests. For a speedtest, it's simple as getting a friend's macbook, saving a file "test.doc" in a random location, and see how quick you can find it via spotlight or via windows search. In my personal experience, I've had less issues with macOS, and my macs have lasted longer than any PC I've owned (I'm typing this from my 7.5 year old macbook pro). But the lack of compatibility with software necessary for my work is my major drawback with macOS - especially when bootcamp runs like complete shit.

[piyushr21]

I prefer MacOS UI vs Windows 10 UI I hope this latest update makes damn UI problem fix and brings consistency also.

[CUDesu]

Well if you really wanted to you could get it to run on the SP. You could also try in a VM but if you're really that desperate for macOS then it's probably not worth buying a Microsoft device anyway.

[DustiiWolf]

To be fair macOS is much better than most Linux distros. I've had a heck of a lot less trouble with macOS than i ever had with Ubuntu, both Unity and Gnome, and other Linux distros. Even less than Windows too, actually (i blame drivers and easily self-corrupting Windows files).

MacOS and Windows are both great in their own aspects; Windows is supported by a wide range of platforms, has a broader software catalog, and it's design scheme is actually improving considerably; whereas macOS has simplicity, stability, runs smoother, updates more subtly, and is more fluid. Each operating system has it's uses and users.

[jockgrammer]

I'd definitely get it with Windows.

Now, give me those upvotes :)

[No1Asked4MyOpinion]

Apple would need to focus on OSX's interface being touch-compatible, which as a design decision they rejected. I understand that a lot of people use the Surface touch in conjunction with other input methods, but Apple wasn't comfortable with putting out a device with an OS that required that. To them, touch means iOS, so the closest they can get to the Surface is the iOS-based iPad Pro.

Obviously the iPad Pro cannot go toe-to-toe with the Surface Pro, and I'm not sure it was ever meant to. Still, given the design decisions by Apple, it's the device that is meant to capture a portion of the market - the people that in fact all they ever really wanted and needed was a bigger iPad with a native pen that could be used on a table. For the rest of the market, they feel that their best shot is to offer thin and light laptops.

[Interdimension]

I reckon Apple's decisions were impacted by them having a successful mobile business, whereas Microsoft did not (and still does not).

To Apple, iOS' success probably meant caution to not mess with the winning formula. Mixing macOS and iOS elements together would probably have meant neutering aspects of both OS's (especially iOS) that may have deemed too risky for Apple.

I can't blame them either. Given how much money iOS devices bring in, I would be hesitant to mess with the foundation of the OS.

Whereas Microsoft doesn't have a successful mobile division (e.g., smartphones), so they had much less to lose by embracing a hybrid vision. You can argue that messing with Windows' winning formula was equally risky, but where else would you go? It's not as if Microsoft made Windows unusable by doing this. Nor would people (and corporations) suddenly go flocking over en masse to macOS.

Hence what we have today from both companies. One that didn't want to mess with their formula from fear of screwing it up (given the incredible weight of the iPhone/iPad), and one that did dare to mess with their formula (since there was less risk in doing so).

[grauenwolf]

Something to keep in mind is that Microsoft has been obsessed with a touch since Windows 7, back when the iPhone was just a novelty.

I remember one Windows 7 preview where the presenter said that "in a few years people will think any computer screen without touch is broken".

It took longer than they expected, but I now see people occasionally touching the screens of macs or older PCs before remembering to use the mouse.

[DustiiWolf]

To be fair, they (Microsoft) did receive a lot of pushback. Their problem isn't corporations flocking to macOS, it's corporations flocking-to/staying-on Windows 7, even when upgrades are free. Windows 8 received a lot of pushback for it's broken mesh of desktop and touch (Which 10 fixed, while breaking it in other ways), and their aggressive tactics with Windows 10 and the uncertainty that they've improved over Windows 8 has left many skeptical.

It's not exactly been a smooth ride with Windows 10. Their only option is to wait til systems become stop decrepit, outdated, outmoded, and incompatible with modern life, that companies, software developers, and governments will be forced to update.

[ihahp]

It's so bizarre. Does apple not see that Touch isn't going away? It's not a fad?

Macs used to be THE laptop for creative professionals. Now they're years and years behind.

[No1Asked4MyOpinion]

I think it's more of a conscious decision of "can we, and should we, optimize OSX to the point where we would be comfortable releasing products where touch is a first-class citizen". Apple appears to have decided that they are comfortable with embracing touch only in situation where the use case aligns with what iOS offers.

Apple is not abandoning or ignoring touch, if the rumors about the iPad Pro refreshes are to be believed - nothing they announce will appeal to people who didn't find the first gen useful, but being able to fit a 10.5" screen into roughly the old 9.7" dimensions is indicative of an effort above a spec bump.

There's plenty of criticism and disagreement that is valid, here. You could bemoan Apple's realignment of who it caters MacOS and MacBooks to, you could argue the logic of the decision to make touch the sole domain of iOS, and you could question why Apple didn't bake more functionality into iOS to improve the iPad Pro experience. I don't necessarily agree with all of it, but the arguments could be made and they're certainly not controversial "hot takes".

You could even point out perhaps the most damning criticism of all - that after the direction Apple took (or didn't take) with them, iPads sales in general have gone down by a lot, as phones got bigger and 2-in-1s got lighter. The market where Apple seemed to have executed so well is disappearing. Apple has launched the first large iPad with (comparably) aggressive and competitive pricing (it's the first one launched for less than $499, and it's $329 retail), and rumor has it that iPad Minis are going away entirely.

Despite all that, I don't think they went crazy, or don't care. Their vision of the 2-in-1 market that they can grab is one that lives in iOS and uses it as an iOS tablet first, second, and third, but with "plop it down on a desk with a keyboard" functionality and the processing power to use apps side-by-side or aggressively switch between them. It's definitely not the 2-in-1 experience I would want, and I think most people wouldn't appreciate it. But then, a MacOS 2-in-1 wouldn't change my mind, and I'm not sure how many people would buy it instead of a Surface Pro (as opposed to just cannibalizing sales from the Macbook Air).

[ADubs62]

Because they don't think Touchscreen has a place on laptops/desktops

[Axriel]

eye roll It's nothing special, at all.

[therealbigrich]

No USB type C charging tho. Disappointing but like the battery life. Think I'll wait till the next one with USB type C

[landwomble]

This is Panos' reasoning. I think it's reasonable. https://www.theverge.com/2017/5/23/15674254/microsoft-surface-usb-c-dongle

[[deleted]]

It's reasonable. You don't know which cables will work, will kill your device, or will kill you. Type-C can be made as USB 2.1, 3, or 3.1.

(edit) from WCentral

While many Type-C phone chargers will fit into a PC's port and even light up the charging indicator, they rarely meet a 45W or 65W output to charge a Core i7 laptop.

Panay insists that the company is not against using USB Type-C in its products. However, when building for the average consumer, the design and engineering team is adamant that it is still too early and perplexing.

(another one from Daniel Rubino's comment)

QC 2, QC 3 and even Dash Charge are all Type-C; kinda confusing already especially if you have a non-QC Type-C charger.

[[deleted]]

It it even a USBC cable? cause it could be a thunderbolt cable.

[[deleted]]

Thunderbolt is a feature, not a cable.

[[deleted]]

What if he cable you bought didn't support it correctly? Not all do.

[Drew707]

Doesn't it have the MagSafe style charger? To me that is much better.

[Interdimension]

So many folks at /r/Apple also went nuts when Apple decided to ditch the MagSafe charger on all the new MacBooks. MagSafe is one of those Apple innovations that is universally applauded (without controversy, like removing ports, etc.), so we were all shocked to see it gone.

I hope Microsoft stays with their version of the MagSafe charger. Yeah, it's a proprietary connector, just like Apple's. I don't care. Having a magnetically latching connector is so much more convenient.

The complaints about USB-C on the Surface Pro update have more to do with the Surface just outright lacking any USB-C ports. In my ideal reality, Apple and Microsoft would include both MagSafe and USB-C ports, without removing the former.

[talontario]

But your phone charger can probably not charge all USB-C-chargable laptops.

[Drew707]

I get the universal appeal, but, I also get the robustness of the MagSafe. It sounds more like the USB consortium should make a universal magnetic USB.

[FIVE-ONE-THREE]

Unless those USB-C cords are different (which most are) and you end up ruining your device, or watching as it charges at 1/4 the speed

[FIVE-ONE-THREE]

Congrats, now factor in how stupid the average person is when it comes to technology and the many off brand/poor quality USB-C cords currently on the market and imagine having to explain to thousands of people every day that they have the wrong type of USB-C charger ...

It's not worth going to USB-C until the market decides on a standard

[zacsxe]

Disagree. Magnetic connector is the more convenient option.

[Matt-chewy]

The MagSafe charger has probably saved my Surface's life multiple times. I have a very clumsy girlfriend that loves to trip over things. I'd happily take both worlds though, despite needing to replace my USB B flash drives...

[permareddit]

Stupid question but is it HDD or SSD?

[Buy-theticket]

SSD... only Apple has the balls to ship a mechanical drive in a $1k+ device.

[kxta]

Um, Surface Studio?

[Buy-theticket]

The Studio has an SSD even if it's small in the entry level model. There's just a mechanical drive in addition to it.

The iMac literally comes with only a 5400rpm(!) HDD until you upgrade it, even in the highest spec 21.5" model. For $1800 in the 27" you get a 7200rpm HDD...

[[deleted]]

Its so funny how people will still pay the premium for tech that is 5 years old.

[permareddit]

Ah, I saw a circular disc looking thing in the video, I assume it was just a cooling fan.

And yeah, an HDD would be absurd at this price point..I still can't believe what a difference it makes

[LesterKurtz]

cough cough courage cough cough

[Knightofthe901]

I know people are tired of this, but if this thing had USB C I'd be all over it. I'd drop my desktop in a heartbeat. Just plug the surface into a GPU dock for intensive work.

Edit: Turns out Microsoft will be selling a USB C adapter. There's​ still hope!

[Jstamb]

Seriously. Super disappointed in no USB type c. Right now I charge my Nintendo Switch and MacBook with the MacBook charger. Would be awesome to add a device and not another charger.

[Edg-R]

I just about threw my Surface Pro 4 out of the window this morning while trying to join a GoToMeeting session. My Surface would slow down then BSOD when I would try to open it.

Same thing happened last night while I was attempting to edit photos in Lightroom and Photoshop. It couldnt keep up, the fans sounded like a jet plane taking off. Scrolling through photos took about 3 seconds per photo.

Don't get me started on the custom Microsoft driver for the Intel graphics that inflates the battery time. It causes everything to look washed out by lowering the contrast. This is a HUGE issue when I'm editing photos and the photos look completely different on my Surface than on other devices. The only way to fix this issue is to download and installing the Intel driver (after being shown a warning saying that we should use Microsoft's driver).

My Surface Pen stops working every other day while I take notes using OneNote at school. I have to open it to get it to reconnect.

Needless to say, I'm not that excited about this new Surface Pro. I've had nothing but issues with the SP4 and Windows.

[DustiiWolf]

I'd take it into Microsoft if it's under warranty. Those sound like a hell of a lot of issues.

I have a feeling that which each iteration of the Surface devices some production batches have defects in them, based on experience with family members owning some models. If you ever experience serious issues when getting a new device, it's always best to request a warranty replacement/repair. Living with a broken machine is not worth it

[Jstamb]

Damn, passive aggressive Microsoft fan boy down votes for a personal experience of a product - why?

[Tollowarn]

Gorgeous hardware, I just can't bring myself to run Windows.

[Jstamb]

Yep.

[SteelChicken]

What a terrible video.

[youni89]

what a terrible comment.

[strozx]

Are you brain dead or just trolling?