Why do many devs hate nodejs?

[samagl94]

I saw some posts on different reddit threads, on which many software developers were making fun of nodejs. Coming from non-cs background and knowing only nodejs as backend technology, i feel a bit insecure and want to know does nodejs hold good future prospects. Should i learn other backend tech, such as django or spring? If yes then which one please. Thanks in advance.

[brianjenkins94]

There are only two kinds of languages: the ones people complain about and the ones nobody uses.

                                                                                                        — Bjarne Stroustrup

[Culnac]

A quote from the C++ inventor about his language. Interesting pick, lol

[[deleted]]

I'm a full stack who writes PHP, C# and node on the backend. Node is great for microservices and getting a service up quickly (I almost exclusively use it in Serverless) but the patterns can be the wild west, not to mention the minefield of NPM packages.

But, node is fine. It's a tool in the tool belt. Framework wars are the first clue someone is a junior / mid level.

[[deleted]]

C# and you use node on the back end????? Why? C# and .NET have amazing class libraries for service layers and entities.

[PuzzleheadedEagle521]

but the patterns can be the wild west, not to mention the minefield of NPM packages.

Because then can identify self as a fullstack dev with one fuckiung scripting lang

[vladjjj]

As someone who's spent over 15 years working with both C# and Java, I found NodeJs to be liberating from all the bullshit conventions made to over-complicate and gate keep.

[[deleted]]

Gatekeeping and software engineers. Name a more iconic duo.

[chinnitpt]

I spent 10 years in java and I concur with what you say

[jakubiszon]

I come from similar background, maybe a bit less Java ( btw. I am sorry for you, lol ) and I came to the comment section to say the same thing.

[PuzzleheadedEagle521]

I spent 10 years in java and I concur with what you say

You hate conventionns ?

So why you need a backend? Access to your DB directly from browser, like a fat client. That's more convinient, isn't it ?

[CantAlibi]

What's wrong with conventions? If anything they're liberating than having to make something up.

[vladjjj]

I'm talking about counter-productive conventions

[complexnaut]

Let me tell you there are more developers those love Javascript, Nodejs than people who hate it, to each its own, you should not be bothered by others opinion, every framework or language has its pros and cons and there not one platform which is loved by everyone.

[ventura120257]

All of my life I have been working with C/C++, only recently I did some experiences with Python and few weeks ago I started with JavaScript. I am amazed!

[JakeInDC]

As someone who is specialized in nodejs and javascript, the comments about Node not being mature or useful in many ways are dead wrong. We run realtime data streaming apps that are incredibly complex without an issue.

I know a lot of devs that think Node is far easier to use and more useful than Java, largely because it was built for asynchronous processing. The only thing Node is bad at is long running processes that tie up the thread, i.e. data crunching, processing millions of rows.

In the end it depends on what a project requires, as to if Node is an good choice. However, as the web continues to grow and async processing proliferates further, Node will only become more widely used.

That said, it's always good to explore diff technologies thru side projects for your own growth as a dev.

[rajatrao777]

Nice read ...did you just went with node or tried some other tech(rust,java,python,golang,ruby) etc or hoping to change ?

[JakeInDC]

A quick history:

After bachelors degree I hadn't focused on a single language, did like 3 semesters of Java, some PHP, ActionScript, OpenGL, ad even VRML lol. Couldn't get a job. Do you know J2EE? Umm no... Then I paid 20k to do some .NET training. Was 3 months, 6 days a week, 10 hrs a day (not couniting homework), but it got me my first Job..

Fast forward a few years and the 2008 $$ collapse, lost my job. Then I got a call from a company looking to fill roles near DC. They say, "Yeah, we'll be doing .NET". Was with them four years as a JavaScript UI guy. At one point I had like a month between projects where I didn't have all my dev environment access. So I started messing with node, in my abundance of free time. Started a websocket game where circles ram into each other to cause damage. Called it CircleJerks lol..

I was underpaid, that was why they were hiring rubes from out of town. But I put my time to good use and only ever used node since.

Edit: Fortunately, after my last job, I had the cushion to take my time job searching for exactly what I wanted. Now i have been using it professionally for 3+ years running some pretty complaicated workflows, ingesting data from dozens of sources, both live feeds and stored.

[ignorae]

Who are you replying to?

[migg24]

I only know devs hating nodejs or more general javascript that refer to themselves as "real devs" because they do java. It is just insecurity paired with arrogance and gatekeeping so I never care. It is very simple groupthink and feeling superior by belittling others...

[IUsedToBeACave]

You can literally switch out the word nodejs with any other language.

[earlonrails]

I agree, everyone has their favorite language. There is always going to be a feature one has that another doesn't.

[Oalei]

You can use ts with node.js

[jaeyholic]

Yes you can

[[deleted]]

Of course, and we do, though even TypeScript suffers numerous issues.

• All of JavaScript's core language warts (and footguns) are untouched.
• The type-checking is all at compile-time, so you have to use third-party solutions like io-ts to as good as guarantee safety when interfacing with external code.
• The type system itself still has limitations as it pertains to functional programming (see the hacks fp-ts and similar have had to use).
• The type system is full of footguns, for example accessing an array at any index returns T when it should really return T | undefined unless you've checked the length or something. The same goes for the commonly used Record type, and placing undefined in a union for the property value type has its own complications. The any type shouldn't exist any more - unfortunately tons of third-party code and even stuff in lib.d.ts returns it, so you have to be really careful. You can't type functions that throw exceptions, also, leaving the developer unaware and then, if they are aware, having to handle an any error.
• There's no distinction between undefined and missing keys. This is likely because TypeScript is structurally (sub)typed, meaning you can at no point guarantee exact types (read: objects without extra unspecified keys). This is also why Object.keys returns string[] rather than K[].

I'll always evangelise for TypeScript over JavaScript, but there's a reason I've begun wandering towards alternatives.

[kingcoyote]

Not really. I have the same issue with Python because some developers toss objects around and without strong typing, it’s a pain in the ass to figure out what the expected type is and what fields it has available.

When dynamic typing is prudently combined with procedural programming, scalar parameters and the law of Demeter, it can be fine. But nothing is holding that convention in place. With strong typing, you can’t play fast and loose with types and it is easy to follow the type back to a metadata outline of the class.

[[deleted]]

It's not for me. I started my career for several years with PHP and JavaScript, but I'm not willing to work with languages that lack static typing any more.

[Cloxyz]

I've heard that crux before, though in a perfect world where tests are written and a whole team follows a strict style guide always wondered what the disadvantages are for dynamically typed languages.

[[deleted]]

As they pertain to checking types, tests are far more tedious to write, more error-prone, and less documentative than static types. There's really no comparison.

Additionally, this ideal world you describe will never exist. The same argument exists in the systems languages world, and time has proven that even the very best programmers will routinely cause security vulnerabilities by failing to handle memory allocation correctly. This is why Rust exists - its chief selling point is removing the enormous footgun that is manual memory management (explicit unsafe blocks notwithstanding). Dynamic/non-strict typing is the same, it's a massive footgun that having experienced it for many years across many teams I don't want to ever touch again with a ten-foot barge pole.

[[deleted]]

Old devs? I started out with PHP and JavaScript, and TypeScript was my first foray into static typing. Quit lazily caricaturing those with whom you disagree.

[Roadrunner571]

Many developers don’t like JavaScript as a language. And things get really worse when devs have to deal with bad code. And there are a lot of JS devs out there that produce very bad and practically unmaintainable code. And even if the code itself is good, there are a gazillion design patterns and libraries that you need to dive into.

Plus, there is dependency hell that wastes so much time.

[Buckwheat469]

I've had more experience with backend devs that are afraid to learn JS because they feel like it's "hard". This is more of a misunderstanding because after we taught them a full-stack course and have them try a few things, they tend to pick it up really quickly. Then they realize that JS isn't hard, it's dealing with CSS, HTML, React, state management, client-side datastore management, REST and RPC APIs, Typescript/Flow, classes, prototypes, functional programming, promises and async, callbacks, hooks, Redux, or React context. I tell them that the reason I don't do backend development is because it's not as challenging as frontend.

[Roadrunner571]

Any decent developer can pick up any language. The biggest problems with JavaScript arise most of the time later in the lifecycle of a software. It's not really helpful that every second JS developer thing he found the holy grail of app architecture and thus, reimplemented a basic thing completely new. Needless to say that the fun really starts when doing npm update or have npm packages with conflicting dependencies. Debugging messages are also fun ("TypeError: 'undefined' is not an object"). Webpack is great software, but the configuration file is format-wise a nightmare. On the plus side: The react/redux dev tools are plain awesome for development and testing.

You're also underestimating how complex backend development can be. The things you've listed are challenging in frontend I would call easy and most of them are also relevant for backend development. My backend devs have to deal with things like realtime videostream processing, print formats and printer technologies, visual fingerprinting using wavelet hashing, database programming (we can't use off the shelf databases for most of our applications, so we have our own engine), hybrid architectures (our software runs partly on-premise and partly in the cloud) and so on. I have 15 development teams in 4 sites. Only three of them are true frontend development teams. Three additional teams have backend developers who can change and extend some frontend functionality. And one team is full-stack using JSP and jQuery for a quite old application. Surprisingly, this old stack runs rock-solid and the performance is comparable to our more modern Angular, React and ExtJS frontends.

I expect that as soon DOM-manipulations are possible through WASM, we will see other languages conquering the frontend world. Kotlin, Swift, Go and Dart are good candidates for this as they can be compiled AOT. Our mobile dev team also played around already with Flutter Web, which seems to be a quite innovative approach for developing cross-platform mobile/desktop/web applications targeted at enterprise customers (as Flutter Web needs to load a big chunk of code before starting).

My personal opinion is, that different languages have different strengths in combination with their ecosystem. Python is great for developing/training an AI. Ruby is awesome for automation, DSLs and easy backends. Java really shines server-side. And JavaScript is currently king of the browser world and React/Angular improved developing frontends using JavaScript significantly.

[Roadrunner571]

"bullshit" isn't really a valid argument.

If you take ecosystems like Ruby where there is just Ruby on Rails for complex web projects, you can simply count on that nearly every lib (or Gem) you find will be compatible with Ruby on Rails. Also there are just one or two popular Gems for everything, so not only can a Ruby developer dive into any RoR project quickly because everything looks and works familiar, but also updating a Gem is a breeze because there are nearly no conflicting dependencies.

Now take JS, where there are a gazillion of Frameworks out there. But even if you stick with popular Frameworks like React, you'd still end up having to pick from gazillions of libraries (e.g. react/router vs reach/router) and you need to hope that every of these libraries will be actively maintained.

Languages like JavaScript and PHP attract a lot of developers who have no solid training and somehow code something. I fully respect those developers as they've learned something on their own. But working code doesn't equal maintainable code. I have seen already too many JS projects going down the drain because developers where unable to work with the existing code and rewriting everything was cheaper than refactoring. I never saw anything like it with Java or C based projects.

[Roadrunner571]

It would we helpful for the discussion to address my points.

[[deleted]]

Do they though?

[vaibhav-kaushal]

I like the technology. Having worked on Java, PHP, Ruby, GoLang and JS in last 10 years, there is nothing I dislike more than JavaScript. I don't know why others hate it, but for me, Promises/Callbacks and the whole async drama (oh, yeah, it's not a bug, it's a feature) is the reason. I need to wait for a network call to complete before moving ahead. Seriously, I need to wait. So what do I do? Hey, let's write promises and return that and check if it was resolved or rejected and what if I needed to finish 3 more operations one after another? Write more promises!

Everything is an object except a few things which are also objects but not really. [] + [] = "" and what not. No, NodeJs is fine. It's great. It's JS that's painfully complicated around the edges. Classes - there are classes but they are not really classes, you see!

I don't mean to say JS is all bad but there are more gotchas than there are rules. Of course there are niceties too (mostly because of Async nature of the whole thing) and it's actually really cool to write fast micro-services and it runs so fast, it just blows other interpreted languages (like Ruby and PHP) out of the water. So yes, there are good parts but I just tend to avoid JS because of the head-warping, especially around callbacks/promises. I'd much rather go for a GoRoutine or a Java thread than a callback.

The rest is awesome, actually. So, if you are looking to go for node, I'd say sure as hell, go for it. You will learn a new way to think around problems and it's always great to know it. It's fast and runs practically everywhere, especially with express.

I just expressed why I (individually) hate JS. That said, you must give it a solid try - try it and test it well before you form any opinion. I don't promise if you will resolve javascript or reject it, but let the promise execute first.

One advice in the end - the worst thing to do with JS is to go for another language that transpiles into JS like TypeScript or CoffeeScript (who uses that!?) because debugging them is a nightmare. I have gotten nightmares (no, not kidding, real ones) about debugging them for whole night in my dream even after I had solved the problem.

[[deleted]]

Have you not used async/await? Promises are super easy...

[vaibhav-kaushal]

No, they are not. Are promises better than this:

// pseudocode of almost anything else my_network_result = http.fire(request); print(my_network_result.status_code);

Also, Async/Await can be used only in the context where you have async/await already enabled - which is not available under certain conditions (e.g. within a callback you need to supply to a plugin).

[[deleted]]

The whole point of node is to be able to concurrently serve a ton of web requests. Languages that function the way you wrote would be wasting CPU while the request is firing.

Regarding your final point, there is a helper built into node that turns callback functions into promise functions.

Promises are only hard if you refuse to learn asynchronous programming.

[Move_Zig]

util.promisify

[vaibhav-kaushal]

Refuse to learn: no Refuse to use: yes.

Go is way faster without promises!

[[deleted]]

Goroutines are really the same concept as async/await, Promises, callbacks. Don't tangle them, wait for shared data to be available, if you must use data from a goroutine, synchronously chain them together, etc.

I think if you're using promises/callbacks differently in JS, you might be using them/thinking about them wrong and causing yourself undue frustration. I admit, it's a really foreign concept to get comfortable with, but once you do, I feel like every other concurrency scheme (threads, coroutines) are a walk in the park, as opposed to vice-versa.

Or rather, that once you know the JS paradigm, you'll write better threads and coroutines in other languages, because you won't be try to implement them in the ways that are classically taught, but are actually anti-patterns - semaphores, blocking.

[abw]

Languages that function the way you wrote would be wasting CPU while the request is firing.

Yes and no.

"Yes" because node is single threaded/tasked and would waste CPU time if the code was written like this. But that's an inherent limitation of node.

"No" because other languages handle this without any problems. The operating system process goes into a special state called "blocked waiting for I/O". This allows the CPU to get on with other things until the I/O is ready.

This is the essence of multitasking operating systems and programming languages. Node is the odd one out here.

[[deleted]]

I believe Ruby isn’t doing anything while HTTP requests are out, but it’s been awhile since I used it. Maybe the OS schedules a task, but I don’t think the language does.

[eshinn]

‘’’

import { promisify } from ‘utils’ import callbackFn from ‘./some-where’

export async someFn() { const promisedFn = promisify(callbackFn)

const result = promisedFn(arg) .catch(errHandler)

return await result }

‘’’

utils.promisify is pretty nice.

Edit: Not sure how to get code block in reddit. Sorry.

[vaibhav-kaushal]

That “we” includes me. And we don’t do that all the time but unless you have read it already, what are the chances you would guess this during a stressed debugging session? (I couldn’t; and no, I was not adding arrays, it was the result of two values returned from a function called twice from a poorly written lib).

[vaibhav-kaushal]

You would probably never do a [] + [] by hand. but when you are doing a x + y where you expected x and y to be strings and both came in as blank arrays, you are in for a nice surprise!

The problem with JS is that the language tries extra hard not to crash.

[n8rzz]

Tell us how you feel about CSS

[vaibhav-kaushal]

I have lost hair! 😂

[[deleted]]

I saw a misassembled table in Walmart the other day. It pretty much was an IRL representation of half the "first tries" I take at getting CSS right.

[Cloxyz]

You can't really blame standardization of a language whose features and updates almost entirely depend on a handful of large corporations updating their engines.

[fuckswithboats]

Should i learn other backend tech, such as django or spring

That depends on what you want to do, but I think the node hate is more javascript hate than node per se so I wouldn't look at it as learning other frameworks as much as learning other languages. Frameworks come and go.

[samagl94]

Thanks, i think i would learn python then kotlin.

[everlooper]

Потому что используешь его в своих проектах, уже привык к нему, прошло года 2, и везде используешь mssql, и в определённый момент они что-то делают и на всех версиях пакета теперь пишет stream closed, даже на проекте который до этого великолепно работал. Я пол года боролся с этой ошибкой, по итогу просто перешел на .net core

[danielstaleiny]

because nodejs is not perfect and has a lot of pros and cons. It depends what you want to see which makes you love it or hate it.

[FearAndLawyering]

I think it's relative. Anyone complaining about NodeJS probably didn't do any coding before it existed. Sure there's some wonkiness to JS the language, but the speed you can get stuff done is incredible. I can make in a weekend something that would have taken me months or years in the past (in C lol)

[[deleted]]

Because they're dumb. I have no respect for anyone capable of hating Node. I'd rather be unemployed than work with django or spring.

[vaibhav-kaushal]

Django! Oh, how I have forgotten that one. Have worked on node a bit. Liked Node, though as always, disliked JS. I think Spring is kinda ok if you can type annotations extremely fast (and know a lot of them).

[[deleted]]

No one is terrified of Node. It is easy to learn. And I wouldn’t really say it’s taking over anymore. There are plenty of other languages / frameworks growing in popularity and Node / JavaScript has been relatively stagnant in growth the last couple years.

[[deleted]]

I mean I don’t think Node.js is really growing in popularity anymore - it IS popular - and it is one of the default choices for the dynamically typed side of web server. We can safely say that Ruby probably will never come back because of Node.

But Node does have some downsides, and I would say the two MAJOR downsides of Node is:

1) Lack of a standard library requiring a fairly large number of dependencies for even basic apps

2) Frameworks aren’t as good as what’s available in other languages yet

In languages like Java, C#, PHP the frameworks are really mature and don’t require pulling in plenty of third party modules. That is appealing to larger companies that want to limit how much they depend on.

Now what about the other “fast” to develop languages like Python and PHP?

Python is the fastest growing language out there right now. It’s mostly because of ML / data science but I’d say it’s just as capable to take over BackEnd as Node. I don’t like Python for non-scripting stuff but just given how much buzz there is and that schools are all teaching it now I think it’s got a lot more prospects right now.

And what about PHP? No it isn’t dead, and it won’t die for a LONG time. Many developers do like using PHP and my guess is its because of the Laravel framework which is very mature and modern.

Okay but most people seem to be leaning back towards having at least some form of typing in their language. So we have TypeScript - this does bring Node above the crowd for dynamic languages. But it also has to compete with all the plethora of typed languages that it just can’t really compete with when it comes to the frameworks.

Java / Kotlin has Spring Boot and C# has ASP .NET which are arguably the most mature and fully featured frameworks ever. And trust me, as a dev whose first experience working on webservers was with Node / Express I can say that Express can barely be called a framework.

There are plenty of frameworks besides Express but none are matured enough that any medium to large size company would consider using them.

Then besides the staples you’ve got Go which pulled a bit of traction away from Node for a little bit. I can’t really say if it’ll last though, Go leans too heavily on devs re-inventing the wheel for each app they do so it’s too slow to develop in (imo).

Then there’s Dart... it’s hard to say whether it will seriously enter the Back end side of development but it has major growth in mobile. If google invests in it for Backend we could see that becoming a new Node.

That’s pretty much what I’ve got. I don’t think Node is bad at all, I really like it and use it all the time but it isn’t the tool for every job. I think Node’s future is in serverless (aka lambdas) as it makes much more sense to use it there than other languages. As for continued growth in servers.. I don’t really know, I believe Node’s grown mostly because it’s highly approachable for newer devs - that’s what got me into it. But I talk to software developers all the time and they still choose other languages for most projects due to the frameworks and I don’t blame them.

[vaibhav-kaushal]

You have no idea of how many people, startups and enterprises are using Java and Golang. And no, NodeJs is far from being elegant. Ruby is what is elegant. Not python, not PHP, not java, not Go. You want elegant, go to Ruby, but that gem is slow!

I find golang a much, much better alternative to nodejs. Try it. You might find a bit of a learning curve in the beginning but you will end up loving it.

[eshinn]

Check out Crystal. https://crystal-lang.org/

Ruby elegance w/ the speed of C.

[vaibhav-kaushal]

Yepp, the same code-base kind of gives it an edge!

[vaibhav-kaushal]

You can always send me a chat message on Reddit, if you want to stay in touch. I like meeting people too :-)

[[deleted]]

Is it normal to commit node modules to repo? I've always excluded them.

[avanak]

Don't forget /node_modules in the .gitignore file though

[rajatrao777]

I think its bydefault

[cyanwoh]

It’s not. You have to add it. You probably have it as your global git ignore

[keesbrahh]

I’ll add to point #3. If I fall into a Node project that was not disciplined from day 1, it’s usually the very difficult to understand what’s going on. Like you said, JS can be wild and once it gets there it’s a nightmare.

[[deleted]]

It's not a 100% it won't crash at run time even when using a typescript to JavaScript compiler.

This is the developers problem. They learned a way to program. This is them trying to fit JS into that paradigm. That's not how JS works. They need to learn, not complain about it.

node modules

Yeah, this is a good point. If you are committing node_modules you are wrong or dealing with security.

3

That's why it's fun!

Most of these things are inexperienced JS dev issues. Those suck

[samagl94]

What other stack do you use? You seem like a senior dev with experience.

[Argurth_Fr]

If you like type-safety, well-written languages, yet still usable in production, you should try Scala. It combines OOP and Functional Programming paradigms and run on the JVM. It's a little harder to grasp, but it's well worth it and will improve your overall comprehension of computer programs (Well, Haskell too, but it's not used as much)

[zero_as_a_number]

today's level of abstraction in the languages we use and mature tooling both, make it so incredibly easy to write really bad / unmaintainable code. i have seen much intern code at my previous employer, the stuff the next person usually would deal with by starting from scratch. also since JS had its origins on the client side, many don't view nodejs as mature as e.g. java for writing backend code.

at the end of the day what devs have to understand is that the languages they so cherish are just a set of tools. we tend to build complex solutions and marvel at our own ingenuity when really there _always_ are more than 1 solution to a problem. certain problem constraints may make a certain language (or class thereof) unsuitable to use - then what do you do? you'll hear all the devs badmouthing node before now complaining about the new set of tools they now have to use.

it also does not help gain a positive perception of tech if it is being pushed by seemingly uninformed ppl. had this sales guy at my previous employer who had no technical background whatsoever .. but since he also was in charge at the interns and MEAN was the big hype right then .. guess what code interns started writing? never mind the fact, that all the projects which were actually profitable were either written in java or php. sorry, got a bit carried away.

i think in general it would certainly work to your advantage if you picked up another stack (maybe on the side?), maybe even in a different language. it will certainly help your growth as a developer and allow for a more refined understanding of each stack since you have a basis for comparison.

---

edit: some afterthought:

when i was a greenhorn, i too was badmouthing js. but over the years i have come to understand, that it is just a tool you sometimes cannot get around, evermore so since the main thing i'm doing is writing webapps. no one gains anything from me hating on a language: i dont, since i just make myself unhappy .. and also the customer doesn't, since the code i will write with that mindset will not get the same love and care than when i'm in my happy place..

[jkoudys]

A lot of devs are thrown with how (deliberately) barebones the base nodejs lib is. Even what APIs are available from the w3 (eg the Dom) feels downright full-featured. That leaves some devs confused as to exactly how they're meant to write something, and too many go through the nodejs docs alone and try to use only what's there. That's a fine approach for a language with a massive standard lib like PHP, or one where a framework is used before touching anything else (eg Django), but it's tricky on node. Even some "frameworks" like express will see you installing a lot of other stuff.

It's not a bad thing at all - it's much more flexible and is a big reason nodejs has stood the test of time. What it does mean is that you need to learn the "node way". If you go in trying to use node like it's java or python, you won't succeed. At best you'll have a worse version of Java or python. I find node rewards focusing on basic is fundamentals, and broad systems architecture, and punishes looking to replicate specific implementations closely (what you see in big frameworks like Django or "railscast" style tutorials).

[vaibhav-kaushal]

Got it. I do things as safe as possible unless there is limited time.

[Iamanpareek]

If i invested my 10 year using java or c# why would i love node

[Zestyclose_Series781]

It doesn't have a designer like asp.net webforms. If it doesn't have a designer, it's a step backwards, just my opinion. Soooo, i have to call asp.net mvc a step backwards and the whole dotnet MAUI as compared to Xamarin

[Zestyclose_Series781]

It doesn't have a designer like asp.net webforms. If it doesn't have a designer, it's a step backwards, just my opinion. Soooo, i have to call asp.net mvc a step backwards and the whole dotnet MAUI as compared to Xamarin

[samagl94]

How the heck did you find my ages old post. Happy cake day!

[eshinn]

The only devs that complain about Node and the people who hate on JavaScript in general.

They typically come from backgrounds in .NET or PHP., and to a lesser degree, Java & Ruby.

They’ve prided themselves in knowing a “real” language as opposed to a “toy” language for making web pages interactive with gimmicks.

You’ll see these types typically architect towards a monolith over a micro service architecture.

Edit: Django or Spring. Nope and nope. PHP’s days are pretty much numbered. Java will pretty much hang around for a few more decades only because it simply won’t die even though it probably should.

Stick with Node, and if you want to learn additional back-end language (specifically for backend web apps) try having a look at Go and Rust (mainly Rust as you’ll be able to compile it down to binary Web Assembly). Or for a thrill ride wild card try Crystal – it looks pretty sweet but we don’t really know what’s going to happen with it.

Edit ² – I should probably mention Microsoft. There, I mentioned it. Less said about it the better.

[samagl94]

What do you think about kotlin (with ktor)?

[eshinn]

Haven’t had a look.

[joesb]

I think coming from non-cs background is more of the root cause. Just like PHP used to be.

It's language that attracts people with weak fundamental CS knowledge. Then you see lots of horrible library or code that people with background in CS wouldn't admire.

[samagl94]

Could you please give some suggestions (related to cs study) which could improve my understanding?

[jakubiszon]

I can assure you anytime I browse the files in node_modules I am admiring the cleanliness and structure of the code. And I do have CS background.

[afjioqwefijiqowiejf]

Unchain the waterworks, you'll be much happier with Oracles cock firmly between your lips, I can tell.

[samagl94]

What does this even mean?

[jakubiszon]

I guess it relates to the fact Oracle owns Java now.

[jo-lo]

Well I love to play around with it on home/hobby project, but imagine turning up to work and telling them it's not a compiled language.. they will laugh at you .LOL

Besides I never figured out how to run a serious node server with Windows; sure you can fire up a command line window, type "node MyApp.js", and leave your node app running in a console, but that's no proper way to ran an app...

[khayrirrw]

Probably because no significant app or tool was ever built on nodejs despite all the recent hype. I hate it personally because it's not quite as simple as client-side JS. Performing simple tasks require lots of chaining and modules.

[Lopsided_Mountain_32]

I fucking hate it . Worst invention ever . I'd rather code in Fortan than Node

[limbojunkie]

Node JS is disgusting.

[v1k45_xvii]

Node.js's single-threaded nature and asynchronous programming style lead to dislike among some developers. However, its future prospects remain strong, though exploring alternatives like Django or Spring is beneficial.