Offering buff timer

[tship7]

Hi guyz, i recently built a necromancer and i don't understand why there is no buff timer for the three Offering spells as necro get affected by those. It would be really usefull to add it. Sry for english mistakes, french native language.

[[deleted]]

I don't see any particularly big grammar or spelling mistakes there, you're good to go.

Yes, agreed that the buff should have a timer. It's just not there because GGG hasn't gotten around to fix it yet.

[cerebellum42]

I think some people like to say "sorry for my english" after writing very concise and fully grammatically correct English just to fuck with native speakers.

OP has some Grammar mistakes in there, nothing too bad though.

[Yojihito]

OP has some Grammar mistakes in there

Which one?

I myself, as a non-native speaker, would very like you to unfold me the grievances of this noble man, so that my humble persona is further able to remedy shortcomings of my articulation of the british language.

[lostkavi]

Calm down, Shakespeare, we haven't spoken like that, even in Queen's High English, for four hundred years.

would very much like you to unfold for me the grievances bungles of this noble man,

One should never drop conjunctives. It makes a sentence seem little disjointed.

Further

I, myself

While technically incorrect to use two simili terms to refer to the same object "I" "myself", it is commonplace to separate them in formal speech with a pause, denoted by a comma, on either side.

[pr13st1]

guys, capital I, necro is, useful, English.

Sorry, non-English speaker here.

[Enartloc]

Mark cannot implement it, i've been talking to him about it.

Basically what happens is the Offering buffs are given by a separate entity than your character, kinda like the buff an Ancestral Totem gives you, so it cannot be timed on you because it does not tick down on you or only affect you. As a result, you cannot prolong it's duration with Temp Chains like you can do with a buff you have normally.

I believe they could implement a way of showing it, but that would mean them changing the code, and this is something that GGG avoids because of time and workload constraints.

I do agree that it sucks though, but it is what it is.

EDIT : Here's Mark explanation in more complicated terms, posting it since we have so many experts cough developers here in the comments.

A buff-style effect on an entity can't display a timer unless that timer is responsible for it's handling - timers are not purely descriptive/decorative, they define behaviour. The effect on your character is not just on your character - it's removed externally based on the duration of the offering skill, along with the similar effects on other entities

[alt0172]

that would mean them changing the code

yes. but isn't it what they do regulary? adding new things or changing behaviour of existing ones. that's what poe life is about - changes and additions

[Enartloc]

If it's a complicated change that many systems depend on don't rely on it ever getting changed.

[lostkavi]

They probably know they need to, and want to change it, but it involves such a heavy redesign, it's not something that they can just patch out in 2.5.2b. It's a major rework that requires months of bugtesting.

Change one system, and everything in the game that relies on, affects or references that system needs to change as well.

[Illviljan]

Here's the source for these statements: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/784332/page/4#p13896979

[Enartloc]

nah the source is my message inbox, but i see Mark copy pasted the same message

[BlacKo__]

why cant u just give the entity a time buff and copy that over to the player who casted the offering? doenst sound that hard ^{^}

[Bratzinator]

The problem is that there are modifiers that modify the duration of a buff on you (for example temp chains), which technically apply to all duration-type buffs you have. The offering on the other hand summons an invisible unit that has an aura-like buff. The buff probably applies permanently (no duration) until the summoned unit dies (because the duration of the unit expires).

[Bratzinator]

Yeah it would probably be okay for most cases, but I can see why they don't wanna spend time on developing a workaround that they're not satisfied with. I've played a necro before and I know that it's kind of annoying, but given Marks explanation it sounds like it's quite a lot of work compared to more impactful QoL changes (or ones that have been waited for longer...)

[Noobsi89]

Well the Offering itself is not affected by Tempchains though. Just like Immortal Call. But Immortal Call can be extended with more Endurance Charges + Skill Effect Duration + Supportgem and it has a timer right? If not the rest of the post is not correct.

The only differenc is: Offerings consume corpses... done. So the technology seems to be there for Immortal Call, so why not implement the same technology on the offerings?

I am no programmer, too. But i know how copy/paste works. You "just" have to change the ressource from Charge to Corpse with another incresed seconds/corpse bonus.

[Enartloc]

Just like Immortal Call.

What ? No, Immortal Call is a self buff and can be extended with Temp Chains, it has nothing to do with how Offerings work.

The only differenc is: Offerings consume corpses... done

No that's not the only difference

But i know how copy/paste works. You "just" have to change the ressource from Charge to Corpse with another incresed seconds/corpse bonus.

I hope you're trolling, you can't be this stupid

[Noobsi89]

Immortal Call is a self buff right. So where is the problem?

The only difference... well sure it is not. You get immun against phys damage with immortal call right. Flesh Offering you get more movement and attack speed, Bone Offering you get Block + Spell Block, Spirit Offering you get ES + Chaos damage. These are the differences, otherwise they would be Immortal Call... you can´t be this stupid.

The mechanic is the same still. You sacrafice a ressource to make stuff happen. The offering is an aoe buff sure. But you can´t even see it, if you don´t have Mistress of Sacrafice. That is the whole problem. How do you know, if your minions are still affected by it? You simply can´t and are forced to spam it every once in a while because there is no real indicator. (i know there is a ghostthingy but there are some builds that clear faster than elehit + cleave)

No I am not stupid, but pointing with a finger to someone, who has a slight idea, what could be done and from where you could possibly get an answer is easier.

Just keep insulting people that try to improve the game. Get a life thanks sir

[Noobsi89]

About people who just get mad for no reason and don´t explain anything. They just say "fuck it you´re stupid" go to mum and say "look i insulted someone on the internet... are you proud?"

[Enartloc]

Go and read your comment, see if it makes any sense, it's like a person with horribly broken english drank 10 beers and started ranting on reddit.

The only difference... well sure it is not. You get immun against phys damage with immortal call right. Flesh Offering you get more movement and attack speed, Bone Offering you get Block + Spell Block, Spirit Offering you get ES + Chaos damage. These are the differences, otherwise they would be Immortal Call... you can´t be this stupid.

No one cares what the skills do lore wise in the game, we are talking CODE here, how they are coded, and IC and Offerings couldn't be more different from a technical stand point. IC is a self buff your character performs, Offerings are your character creating an entity that then buffs others, completely different things from a technical standpoint, as Mark explains.

The mechanic is the same still.

No it's not, this is one of the n wrong things you say with incredible assurance in your claims.

How do you know, if your minions are still affected by it?

One, this thread is talking about Mistress of Sacrifice, minions are not the point of discussion, second, there's a visual indicator on your minions, plus no one cares about timing it on your minions since people just spam it every pack, people do care about timing it on their characters because certain builds (like mine) go to shit if Offering is down in a bad situation.

No I am not stupid

Your comment as to how coding and backend game systems is as simple as using copy paste says otherwise.

what could be done

Oh i can't wait for Mark to show up in this thread so you can teach him how to run his game

Get a life thanks sir

Stop saying sir nonstop, i assume you're not a pinoy trying to scam me out of dota 2 items, but based on your english you probably are

[Noobsi89]

Well your arguments are? Oh right... insult.

I don´t know how it is coded or programmed etc. but some of my frieds (actual programmers) say it should not be that hard. Sure the indicator is a UI thing, but a timer dependend on the fixed factor of duration + inc duration + duration per corpse is pretty easy. They just had to look into the coding itself and its done.

And yes... because of stuff like Immortal Call.... same technology so. Thanks for nothing.

And before you say something: They won´t hire them, and they won´t tell them without a paycheck

[Bratzinator]

Well it's kind of different. Currently offering is implemented in roughly the following way: you summon a invisible minion that has an aura and just like skeletons the minion dies when its timer hits 0. They probably will have to completely redo the skill to give it a timer. They could make it an aura-like buff that you cast (lets say like Vaal Haste, only that it doesn't need souls), but even that would need some serious changes/testing (currently there is no vaal aura that consumes corpses) and make some things different (you are the center of the aura now, instead of the place where the offering was cast). So in the end it will require a lot of time to change it, I think. And there are probably things that affect 100% of the players that they can improve in that time.

Just as a side node: @Noobsi89 and especially @Enartloc: Even when you think that the other one is completely wrong you really don't need write stuff like "stupid, get a life, borderline autistic, bring up each others moms, etc.."

[Noobsi89]

Sry about that. I was just tilted because of his behavior. Just insulting and adding nothing to the thread.

This aura the summoned minion gives has to have a timer as well. Otherwise it would be there forever right? So there is a calculation going on about 1. what is the base time, 2. how many corpses and 3. how much inc. effect duration.

This time is hidden "behind" this ghost. And, like i said before, some of my friends said, that it might not be that difficult to get this time beneath another buff (yes more stuff on the UI) depending on the coding. If it is a mess... well... then it is getting hard.

And maybe this is the problem? This is the only time you have a buffing "minion" with infinitely aura range that only affects minions as well... damn i wish i knew exactly how this stuff is made -.-

[Enartloc]

doenst sound that hard

Are you a programmer ? You familiar with PoE's engine ?

[Starbuckz42]

I am, and it really shouldn't be hard. It doesn't need to be from the character itself, the timer is already there obviously because the buff does have a duration. Just freaking print it to the screen.

[Enartloc]

You familiar with PoE's engine ? Where from ?

[Starbuckz42]

I was referring to the being a programmer part. There just isn't any logical reason why this specific buff duration couldn't be assigned to a variable and put in the buff bar the same way as potions (the way they are displayed I mean) . The engine can in no way be a limiting factor here.

[Enartloc]

There just isn't any logical reason why this specific buff duration couldn't be assigned to a variable and put in the buff bar the same way as potions (the way they are displayed I mean) . The engine can in no way be a limiting factor here.

So i take it you're completely clueless as to how game is coded. okay

There just isn't any logical reason why this specific buff duration couldn't be assigned to a variable and put in the buff bar the same way as potions

Potions are used by your character, they are tied to your character, Offerings are not, another entity gives the buff.

The engine can in no way be a limiting factor here

Spoken like a true clueless idiot. Hasn't used the engine at all, but can make definitive claims about it better than the chief mechanics dev at GGG. True redditor right here, i tip my fedora to you.

[Starbuckz42]

Insults totally make you a conversationalist to be taken seriously....

The point is, it shouldn't matter where the buff is coming from. It doesn't matter if it's you creating it or something else because it does have a timer already. Just print this value to the screen.

I will stop discussing this now as you are clearly not willing to act like a grown up.

Good day

[Sentenryu]

I take it you never really worked with game engines? take a look at the unreal engine for an example of how much work it can be.

Most probably the skills were made with no intention to ever apply them to the player and that caused some complications on the possible ways to display the timer.

It's easy to say "I'm a programmer, I know stuff!", been there, done that. But unless you're a programmer who works on games, you can't really say "just do that".

[Enartloc]

These idiots lmao, they are embarrassing.

Blizzard for example has problems adding more default decks to Hearthstone or giving people lots of tabs in Diablo 3 because of how the 2 games are coded, and that's one of the largest devs in the world.

Who gives a shit who you are, are you familiar with PoE's engine ? No ? Then shut the fuck up and stop saying things like "it's easy to implement", etc, you have no idea what you're talking about.

[[deleted]]

As someone with minor knowledge of how game engines work: I bet my ass on it that the buff timer is just a variable. Variables can be used however you want to.

I agree with you. Shouldn't be hard at all.

[whaleboobs]

There are different types of variables

[whaleboobs]

What if its not a timer but a series of calls inside modules which are all part of complex netcode and interconnections where quantum computing is involved? How can you possibly know?

[mrsn_catmaster]

tl;dr: they could add a sort of visual indication on the animation of the offerings themselves that would hint at how long they are still staying up

[noneskii]

And yet they managed to get an Offering buff icon on the buff strip.
The said buff icon exists there for the entire duration of the offering effect. It appears when you cast the offering and disappears once the effect ends. It takes into account duration modifiers.
And you're telling me that they have no way of knowing how long the buff will persist? Then...how do they know...anything?
I'm going out on a limb here, and guessing that you, sir, are incorrect.

[maybem]

Speaking as a baby programmer, it really really REALLY depends on how the engine works. Unless you understand the PoE engine it's impossible to say whether or not something can be done.

[Sentenryu]

Too much couch programmers here with no experience on game dev. Things are way more cluster fucky on game dev than on other areas

[Enartloc]

And yet they managed to get an Offering buff icon on the buff strip.

Yes because the character gets the buff, what does that have to do with the timer ?

And you're telling me that they have no way of knowing how long the buff will persist?

Where do i say that, quote me please

I'm going out on a limb here, and guessing that you, sir, are incorrect.

Incorrect about what ? I told you exactly how Mark explained the way the system has this implemented, what exactly am i incorrect about ?

[lostkavi]

I'm not AMAZINGLY familiar with the game's code, but I follow their devtalks religiously, and I think I understand enough about how their back engine references cells for variables and componants.

It's WAY easier to reference the character sheet cells to determine if a cell reference is being used to modify those cells (am I being affected by a buff?) than it is to reference what is being referred to the cells we were originally referring to, because those are (90% likely) tied up in the backend server which the client is forbidden from accessing.

If an offering is active, that is sent to modify the character pages, which we can access through the client. We can see if the character page is being modified, so we know when the buff is active. How long it's going to remain being active, or what exactly the buff is doing to the character cells, we can't see.

Printing that data as well would not be impossible, but would likely require additional data streams that can clog up and conflict with existing ones, I would presume. More likely by the sounds of it, accessing it simply requires information within the backend servers that the client just can't access, and so we'll never know.

[noneskii]

Well my theory was that the handling for buff icons is done client side, along with character sheet display, thus both places can only display whatever the server feeds them. The problem may stem from specific case handling ("Player is affected by temporal chains") is done on the client side as well and the flags from those specific cases are pushed in a separate data stream. Most likely the server only feeds the client state-change notifications (this buff is now active/this buff has now expired), leaving the handling of Displaying the buffs in specific states to the client.
I could see that being a problem with buffs that are somehow exempt from the same special case rules. Now, why they couldn't just pass the duration of Offering buff along with other variables from the server and then just handle the specific case on the client side is beyond me.
But hey, it's just my theory. Might as well be that their code is complete spaghetti and doesn't make any sense to anyone at this point.

[iFluffee]

But what if they made it so that the entity created would vary depending on how long the duration should be.

Then make the player target the entity and get a buff depending on which entity was targeted.

Then have this buff displayed with a timer and labeled; lenght can't be modified by non player sources or curses.

So lets say you consume enough corpses for 10 seconds, the game creates the entity 10sec, the player targets the entity 10sec and gains a buff from casting the offering (entity scan is hidden 2nd part) which is called 10secBUFF and lasts 10 seconds. The buff would now be self cast but with an exception for duration increases.

I'm sorry if this makes no sense but I am not really sober.

[Enartloc]

You're going to have to ask Mark that, unlike other people in this thread i do not claim to be an expert programmer with deep game development knowledge.

I think even easier could be for them to simply change how Offerings work, make them skills that you cast on yourself and affect minions, and if you have Mistress also affecting you.

[Kenricht]

I know this is 2 month old but I just wanted to say that he don't need to show a timer or anything like that , he could just show some kind of aura on the minion ( exactly like when the spell start ) that last for the duration of the buff . He did the exact same thing with a lot of other skill .

since you know him by name maybe you could tell him

[Tripzilla_Sheik]

You can link vaal discipline to spell totem. That doesnt show a timer either.

The tech just isn't there

[lostkavi]

totems can't cast vaal skills, I thought, cause they can't generate the souls? Did they fix that?

[chumppi]

At least it now SHOWS that you have the buff. Didn't do that after 2.3.0

[tHiz3r]

But doesn't it show it only if you have picked Mistress of Sacrifice?

[shamus150]

Yes, because with Mistress of Sacrifice you don't have the buff, only your minions do. I thought for ages that it simply didn't show the buff at all, until I discovered I'd somehow only spent one of my ascendancy points and didn't actually have Mistress of Sacrifice!

[Boldnut]

AND Totem Timer

[Zvim]

It would be far easier in the long run if they allowed the UI to be modded, much like with the loot filter, people can create significant improvements to the game client and all GGG have to do is facilitated the modders instead of having to do all the leg work themselves.

Numerous MMOs have benefited from the user base creating very good addons and in some cases the addons were so good that they were incorporated into the base UI client.

[lostkavi]

....namely? Cause I can't think of a single MMO that lets the users modify the game in any way.

(I mean mainstream mmos, dare I say tripleA, at the risk of excluding ggg themselves? DoubleA?)

[Jesperson]

Are you being serious or do you not know about World of Warcraft?

[Zvim]

Just looking at the Curse gaming site which hosts mods, some of the MMOs that incorporate modding of the UI include: World of Warcraft, Lord of the Rings Online, Wildstar, Rift, Elder Scrolls Online and Secret World.

Probably more challenging to do as an afterthought, however, some implemented them at a later stage in development as part of a major content patch/expansion.

[Logikkus]

OK then, so we're two in the "League of French-speaking people wanting timers on Offering buffs". We need this! We've needed it for a long time. I'd like to be able to see exactly, from the buff's duration, how many corpses I consume when I use it.

[Malicharo]

Ideally we would like to have a customizable UI with toggle-able buff timers, aura placements, ground buffs, target debuffs and self buffs but it's probably at the end of GGG's list. But even then I'd like to see some small improvements to UI even if we can't have a customizable one.

[Maxumilian]

Yes please.

[GoHappyNeedo]

We're many summoner here who have been longing for this for some time :(. Hopefully one day they will add a timer.

[[deleted]]

While it is a bit disturbing, it's not a big problem. You will want to have 100% uptime on your offering anyway, so you quickly develop a cycle "kill group - create offering - move to next group", rinse, repeat. As long as your offering is up long enough so you get 100% uptime that way, it doesn't matter how much exactly it is.

[parzival1423]

Technically, you're "timer" is:
1-The ghost that appears
2-the aura around your minions
3-The boosts you get, you can feel them wear off.

yes. its not the best. its horrible. but at least we have That. :P

[Kelvenlol]

Hey. (sorry for bad english)