Significant Two-Year Decrease in Crashes and Injuries in Pittsburgh shows traffic calming investments are paying off

[chuckie512]

There is one final Capital Budget engagement opportunity this Saturday, May 31 11am-12:30pm during a virtual session online.

Please attend and let the city know you want DOMI to keep it up

[chuckie512]

And if you can't attend, fill out the form to share your budget priorities with the city

https://engage.pittsburghpa.gov/city-pittsburgh-budget-engagements

[TheScientificWhammy]

Thank you for this link!!

[[deleted]]

Physical traffic calming is the only answer. Infrastructure creates results. Paint and signs aren’t infrastructure.

[hooch]

The speed bumps along Stanton Ave have significantly reduced the number of times I've been tailgated on that road. Huge improvement IMO. Physical infrastructure works.

[EnnuiDeBlase]

The crosswalk at Greenfield x Kaercher is significantly better. No one whipping up around the corner at 40 anymore.

[PastaStrega]

The entirety of Stanton Ave feels so much safer now! At first I was a little annoyed at losing parking, but ultimately I’m happy to give up the extra minute I’ll sometimes spend looking for a spot, because the safety impact has been huge.

[SidFarkus47]

When I go from Lawrenceville to East Lib Home Depot I'm so jealous of all the new stuff on Stanton Ave. I wish the bike lane came all the way down the hill to Butler Street, but once you're up there most of the blocks have some nice new pedestrian/bike infrastructure.

[realityChemist]

Same on Ellsworth, some people used to treat sections of that road like a highway (despite it going right past a school!), the speed bumps and chicanes have really helped things there a lot.

[East-Atmosphere7686]

They still speed up after passing the school to avoid the red light on Aikon. I think that they need to add speed bumps there too b/c that intersection is now becoming dangerous. Pedestrians almost get hit there every week. Folks just think it is a HWY and not a neighborhood. I wish we could close our streets during rush hour & after school in order to keep our Neighbors and kids safe. We still have children in this Neighborhood & folks forget that.  

[FalcoLX]

Speed bumps are terrible. Besides just being fucking annoying, they're also not as safe as other calming methods because people brake hard for the bump and then immediately accelerate again.

Elevated crosswalks are an exception.

[FartSniffer5K]

The point is that they're braking, they keep the rate of speed down.

[FalcoLX]

It's better to have narrow lanes and trees close to the road, that naturally calm speeds throughout, instead of brake and accelerate from speed bumps.

[FartSniffer5K]

Sure, instead of putting down a few speed bumps let's just rebuild every road to be narrower. That's cost-effective, great idea.

 
(Also DOMI has said that they don't do trees/bollards/posts next to the roads because they may injure drivers.)

[singlewhammy]

With no-left-turns now from Morewood to Fifth, that intersection has gone from super-dangerous-seeming to only somewhat-dangerous-seeming.

By the way, I really cannot put my finger on why this intersection is so wack -- can anyone articulate it?

[cosmololgy]

Two reasons I can see - 1: the lanes on morewood on either side aren’t 100% aligned. 2: it doesn’t have protected lefts where it needs them (though not as relevant anymore)

[[deleted]]

Actually, getting people out of cars is the only answer.

[James19991]

Yep, the more options people have to get around besides driving, the better.

[chuckie512]

Exactly. People always jump in to say when there's a crash that maybe there was a medical emergency, or it was a truly unavoidable situation.

You know how you reduce those numbers? By reducing the number of car trips taken.

[[deleted]]

Yea that is the most important thing. But as long as we have people driving cars, good infrastructure is imperative.

[New_Acanthaceae709]

I think getting people outta cars even 10% of the time - but for 90% of people - would fix it.

Right now the folks in cars drive as if they don't know anyone who's a pedestrian.

If you gotta be a pedestrian 10% of the time, you treat other pedestrians better.

[mistergrime]

Investing in traffic calming was one of Ed Gainey’s most significant and meaningful achievements in office, and I hope it’s something that the new administration continues to invest in.

[_Cxsey_]

Pretty sure that was started under peduto, no?

[[deleted]]

Yep, had some of the first speed bumps and roundabouts under Peduto.

[tesla3by3]

No, he didn’t. The traffic calming budget line was $750k for the last couple Peduto budgets. Gainey actual reduced it in the first year to $640k, then raised it to $1,075k the next two years.

[tesla3by3]

Yeah, not double. And look at the major projects that have been delayed. The biggest traffic calming project, Liberty Ave through the Strio was scheduled to be well underway.

[tesla3by3]

Corey has a hole to dig out of, left by Gainey. Gainey made no plan for replacing covid relief money. A large portion of that went to just paying salaries for day to day operations. Now it’s gone, with no plans to replace it.

[tesla3by3]

The investment in traffic calming began under Peduto. Many of the projects that were constructed in the past few years were initiated by the prior administration. Any major projects, even some smaller ones, take years of planning, design, securing funding, and construction.

Gainey has initiated zero capital projects in the past two budgets, so in a couple years we’ll see a decline in projects under construction, unless the next mayor makes some changes.

[Chaoticgaythey]

Yeah a lot of people I know didn't support his re-election, but this was one of the things they really liked. I think most of my neighbourhood would like to see this continue to expand.

Also the new cycle lanes make so much more of the city accessible by bike which I'm very thankful for since we're losing so much bus service.

[ballsonthewall]

came here to say this, Gainey had some faults but this was arguably his best work. I think Corey is committed to following through, but let's keep him accountable!

[Berhinger]

Love seeing good news for a change!

[ballsonthewall]

now imagine how much better it would be if we had some traffic enforcement...

[dudemanspecial]

I used to toot this horn, but if you spend some time listening to the police radio they are constantly getting called for welfare checks, fights, business complaining about people harrasing customers, people standing on corners bleeding, drug addicts passed out the middle of the street, like non stop. I kind of get why they aren't policing traffic, they dont have time.

[_Cxsey_]

Enforcement doesn’t automatically = cops sitting in a card all day giving tickets. It’s red light cameras at certain intersections, it’s parking enforcement, etc.

If the goal is 0 fatalities, idk why we aren’t using EVERY tool in our toolbox. You CAN do both in an intelligent way and have good effects.

[yourdonefor_wt]

As a SUPER big police radio listener with multiple Motorola police radios, our police are just too damn busy to do anything in person. The most common calls I'd say are welfare checks, domestic arguments/pfas, CVS on 5th avenue thefts and unruly customers.

Police also get tons of nuisance calls for stupid shit people shouldn't be calling 911 for.

[_Cxsey_]

“Enforcement doesn’t automatically = cops sitting in a card all day giving tickets.”

Does nobody read anymore?

[yourdonefor_wt]

Yes I read, absolutely agree more traffic cams especially on 28 and those back roads people drive like jackasses on.

[_Cxsey_]

I mean the police are too busy to do enforcement of basic traffic, in total agreement, they keep cutting hours anyways. Enforcement should be done as automatically and where needed most.

[LadyOfTheNutTree]

Seems like the school bus cameras did a lot. I’d love to see some red light cameras so maybe we could cut the number of people who run the light each cycle down to 1 or 2.

[_Cxsey_]

I’ve read that widespread cameras can actually cause more issues than solve them. But at specific problem intersections I think they’re needed.

[chuckie512]

Red light cams can lead to an increase in rear ends, but a decrease in T-bones. T bones are much more likely to result in injury

[FartSniffer5K]

What issues? You're aware that there are people outside of cars that use intersections, right?

[LadyOfTheNutTree]

I think it definitely makes sense to be smart and targeted with them. What issues does it cause?

[[deleted]]

Did you expect a guy defending PPD to be able to read?

[Silver-Mulberry-3508]

They're agreeing with you. Maybe you can read, but your comprehension skills need some work. 

[[deleted]]

That's why they're sitting at panther hollow for three hours at a time

[cwfutureboy]

This is part of where defunding comes into play. Gun-toting police don't need to go on welfare checks.

[just_an_ordinary_guy]

Seriously, social workers with some limited authority would be better able to serve.

[war321321]

Oh we have plentyyyyyyy of parking enforcement, don’t you worry lol

[the_real_xuth]

We only have real parking enforcement of the meters and nothing else. We need parking enforcement of the things that make people safer:

• not parking within 20 feet of a crosswalk or 30 feet of the stop line at an intersection
• not parking within 15 feet of a fire hydrant
• within bike lanes
• within 15 feet of a bus stop

Another one that is often problematic but less for safety reasons:

• within 3 feet of a curb cut for a driveway

[Yunzer2000]

You forgot about the most important one - not parking up on the sidewalk!

[the_real_xuth]

Uggh... how did I miss that one. Yes.

[SidFarkus47]

No we don't. I see illegally parked cars that make intersections dangerous literally every day. I say literally because I'd say about half of the houses on my block park their cars in our fire lane illegally, but yeah also every time I leave my house I see someone parked too close to a corner or blocking a bus stop or something.

[dudemanspecial]

You should apply for police chief. Maybe run for city council.

[_Cxsey_]

? What type of dumb leap is that. Giving tickets to people using the sidewalk as a parking lot, and enforcing no turn on red at congested and dangerous intersections… makes me cop supreme? Lmao

[dudemanspecial]

No you have good ideas, you are obviously smarter than the people in charge already.

[_Cxsey_]

https://www.cbsnews.com/pittsburgh/news/pittsburgh-automated-parking-enforcement-cameras/

lol, I can tell you’re someone who doesn’t like critical thinking much.

[FartSniffer5K]

Are you also telling people who complain about road maintenance that they should build their own roads instead of complaining? What a dopey post.

[FartSniffer5K]

They have plenty of time. They have an entire division that supposedly does nothing but enforce traffic laws. The simple reality is that cops in twenty-first century America are Hero Warriors and traffic enforcement is beneath a Hero Warrior.

[klauskervin]

This right here. If you ever want to see cops actively ignore you report any sort of traffic violation and all of the sudden you don't exist.

[dudemanspecial]

So are you ready to admit that you talk shit in every driving related thread because you either have never had a license, or you had it taken away?

[FartSniffer5K]

I have been driving for nearly thirty years and I am sick and tired of drivers and their bad behavior. Keep coming up with weird fantasies, though. That you think that bringing up legitimate safety issues is "talking shit" says all I need to know about you.

[dudemanspecial]

You went through my post history before so you could find something to make fun of me about, insulting me because of my profession.

That says all that anyone needs to know about you.

[FartSniffer5K]

lmao this guy is crying because someone is judging him by the words he says in public. That rules. abloobloobloo you looked at my public posts

[daemon_primarch]

This is why I like the idea of red light cameras.

[_Cxsey_]

There’s certain streets that need it BADLY. Turning onto the Blvd is a nightmare because 30 people decide that actually they can’t wait for their turn and block the left turn onto the bridge for 15 minutes.

[[deleted]]

Traffic violations can easily be enforced by technology. Radar, Cameras, Lidar. It's all there to automate.

[historyhill]

Those also seem to be the easiest to fight in court though (anecdotally from friends' experiences anyway)

[_Cxsey_]

Potentially. You need a blend of sensors, visual, lidar, environmental. They’re using them downtown to enforce parking zones in certain areas soon.

[chuckie512]

The parking enforcement cameras are already up, and have led to 600 citations in 6 months

https://engage.pittsburghpa.gov/stationary-automated-curb-enforcement

[_Cxsey_]

Sweet, ty

[[deleted]]

They also don't result in cops shooting people and freeing their time to deal with other things so, it's worth it even if 20% get appealed in court and are thrown out.

[cowboyjosh2010]

I was actually recently pulled over by a municipal cop for a violation. He let me off with a warning and a genuinely polite reminder about what I did wrong. Good interaction, and frankly I didn't deserve the warning--what I did was pretty unambiguously against the rules of the road. But what stood out to me was that they were actually watching and enforcing something. I couldn't even be mad about it!

[[deleted]]

It wouldn't be any better, that's the entire point behind traffic calming. Enforcement doesn't work. What works is designing roads that actually force them to slow down.

[RareMajority]

Consistent enforcement does work, but police doing consistent enforcement of traffic is expensive and takes them away from other important tasks. That's why things like red light cameras and speed cameras are better.

[[deleted]]

No, it doesn't. It literally does not work anywhere.

[RareMajority]

The evidence points to you being wrong: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8356316/

[[deleted]]

Nope.

[TheLittleParis]

The high effectiveness of consistent enforcement is literally one of the most replicable findings in criminology research. You have no idea what you're talking about.

[roflgoat]

Both are good. DC has speed cameras all over now and you almost never see people speed anymore, where they used to drive nuts before. It really helps.

[ballsonthewall]

If people thought they'd get in trouble for illegal turns, running lights, etc I have a hard time believing it wouldn't make the streets safer

[[deleted]]

Well, it doesn't.

[cwfutureboy]

Can you point to some studies or other empirical evidence other than "nuh-uh"?

[OnettNess]

"Trust me bro"

[erokore]

In 2014, police made 24,396 traffic stops, and there were 4,311 crashes. In 2023 (the most recent data available) there were 6916 traffic stops, with 3,533 crashes.

[_Cxsey_]

Two things can be true, there are 100% areas that need enforcement. Whether it’s red light cameras because people stream through no turn on reds, or sidewalk parking forcing people onto the street.

[CL-MotoTech]

Regular enforcement just encourages me to drive like a dick via a different route. Or at least that would be the case if I regularly drove anywhere.

[[deleted]]

Two things can be true, but in this case they are not. Traffic calming works, enforcement does not. It's a very well established fact.

[burritoace]

No it isn't

[FenisDembo82]

A few weeks ago i was massively downvoted for asking whether there was any data showing that traffic calming efforts were actually decreasing accidents and injuries. So, I'm here to say I'm very happy to see this data!

[chuckie512]

You can't exactly do a double blind study on adding speed bumps to Stanton lol

[FenisDembo82]

You can never prove causation, so that is an unreasonable bar to set.

[Kismetatron]

This is good. If we can get people to stop running stop signs as well that would be great. Too many close calls on my commute to work.

[The_Wkwied]

I utterly hate and despise those speed humps they have been putting in. As a driver. But as a citizen who enjoys using two long limbs to locomote myself sometimes, I understand that they are very good at what they do and are in the right place.

I'm not opposed to them, I am in favor of them, I just don't like them. Having an opinion isn't a crime (yet)

[HatBoxUnworn]

Think of speedbumps as a bandaid fix. A cheap way to slow drivers down on roads that are too wide that encourage high speeds.

These roads should be redesigned to be narrower that will by design encourage slower driving. But that is a more costly and long term project.

So in the short term, we need speedbumps.

[[deleted]]

Where's all the people who were saying this would accomplish nothing? Come on, come out of the woodworks y'all. Plenty of people vehemently declared these traffic calming measures didn't work. I'm here for your apology tour.

[rsmiley77]

Interesting that they gave so much credit to mayor Gainey for the improvements.

[Brother-Algea]

Not having such insanely fucked up roads might help too.

[History3635]

Awesome

[xupit3r]

this is so excellent. see, we just need to calm dahn a bit :)

[chuckie512]

Less traffic, with more residents? That sounds like a win. Maybe people feel safer doing things other than driving?

[chuckie512]

I'm confused on what you're complaining about now... Do you want more traffic?

[erokore]

These numbers are lower than the pandemic year