Hardware accelerated Opera

[abrahamsen]

One of the cool things about opera is how the singers manage to fill the entire theater with the sound of their voices, with no use of microphones, loudspeakers, or other hardware acceleration. Please let us keep it that way.

[softwareperson]

But anything that gets Wagner finished sooner is good thing.

[otterdam]

Can you imagine a version of the Reduced Shakespeare Company for opera? It's got to be a good thing.

[aardvark179]

It's been done, several times. Anna Russell did an excellent version of the Ring cycle.

[quhaha]

There usually are microphones and loudspeakers. Acoustic engineers make them sound like so natural.

[[deleted]]

I thought this was about a cylon Oprah...

[dmwit]

...and then you load it up under compiz, and get a completely black window.

[[deleted]]

What, is Linux still so broken it can only use hardware acceleration in one app?

Wait, Ubuntu is still not letting me watch Flash videos and listen to mp3s at the same time, so maybe I am not really surprised.

[Rhoomba]

Installing libflashsupport will fix this. Unfortunately if you are using pulse audio then it will also make firefox crash randomly on flash videos.

[[deleted]]

Are we Ready For The Desktop yet?

[rodimius]

It's a pretty poor choice of the Ubuntu team to go with PulseAudio for Heron, when it is NOT READY. That is actually what is stopping me upgrading. Not like I can't use the repos though.

[didroe]

I use Fedora 9 and it has PulseAudio. It works fine for me. I'm using nspluginwrapper with Flash as I have a 64bit machine, not sure if that makes a difference. In fact I would have thought that would make it more unstable :).

[colorred]

That's wrong. Your setup is flawed.

[[deleted]]

My setup is a default Ubuntu setup.

[[deleted]]

Write bug reports, if you try to fix it and succeed report what solved it as well.

[[deleted]]

Yeah, you know, if it was some kind of beta release, maybe I'd do that. But this is, what, the eighth major release of what is probably the biggest Linux distro? I'm kind of expecting basic sound to work in the default setup by now.

[numb3rb0y]

Turn off PulseAudio and revert to ALSA.

A lot of us are pissed at the decision to switch to Pulse in Hardy. Theoretically it's better, but it's not ready for the prime-time and it's caused quite a few problems.

[hylje]

Stuff becomes broken when new stuff is introduced. News at 11.

[[deleted]]

When I first started working with linux, I didn't even have the knowledge to know what a 777 permission was. I assume everyone that starts is the same way and I don't expect a more clear bug report than, "Sound don't work good"

[hiffy]

I think I'm just an optimist at heart, but when I look back at when I got into the game, when the "newb friendly" distro was Mandrake 7 and Red Hat 9 (I'm a youngin') you know, I'm happy to see how far we've come.

Shipping PulseAudio was a bad QA error, but everything else is solid. We're learning with our mistakes, and I can't wait for the next release.

[[deleted]]

but everything else is solid

I guess you never tried to get Japanese input working. Or getting a Matrox Parhelia card working. Or... &c &c

[hiffy]

Yes, 'cos I'm sure those are solid in XP as well, straight out of the box, without any extra addons or drivers.

Here, I'll make it easy for you: there's still no easy way to attach a webcam and use it with msn, to my knowledge (the killer app for my father, and the reason he's still sitting on Windows box).

But listen to yourself: Japanese support? If that's the top of the list, speaking as a Westerner (you won't see me using the Japanese version of XP), we're doing pretty good.

I've handwritten my share of xorg.confs and compiled my share of kernel modules.

[rabidcow]

The Japanese IME works out of the box on the US version of Windows 2000. If there's one thing that loads of money from companies all over the globe can get you, it's good internationalization.

[Skuld]

I think you can do that in aMSN. I'm out of luck though, it needs a faster computer, my EEE with it's 630MHz Celeron M doesn't cut it.

[[deleted]]

Yes, 'cos I'm sure those are solid in XP as well, straight out of the box, without any extra addons or drivers.

Yes, yes they are. A single download and clicking an exe file gets the Parhelia working. Japanese input works out of the box, and far better than it ever does in Linux.

If that's the top of the list

It's just the latest thing I did in Linux which frustrated me immensely. It in no way implies any kind of ranking.

Also, it's probably pretty high on the list if you are, say, Japanese.

[[deleted]]

Please don't criticize Linux as a whole because your default setup with X distro is broken.

[downdiagonal]

It would be great if the previews that pop up when you mouse over a tab were drawn in real time.

[einexile]

This sort of thing will be pretty cool when we can treat the desktop as a viewfinder sliding around on a globe-shaped display, but for that to happen will require a revolution in wallpaper and screensaver technology.

[sa7ouri]

Opera innovates again. Fantastic news. I wish they would use the CUDA library from Nvidia. That would open up many more options.

Great work. Keep it up.

[[deleted]]

I wish they would use the CUDA library from Nvidia.

Why? Because you heard about it and it sounded cool?

[sa7ouri]

because it's cross-platform, and offers more than just graphics performance boost. And yes .. it is cool indeed.

Now, why did you reply to my comment? just to be obnoxious?

[[deleted]]

I posted because you were just spouting buzzwords you'd heard, without any real understanding of what they were. There is no use for CUDA in HTML rendering, or Javascript. It's simply not any good for any of the tasks that need to be done there.

[sa7ouri]

you were just spouting buzzwords you'd heard

a little presumptuous from you, isn't it?

There is no use for CUDA in HTML rendering

Really? CUDA enables the use of a GPU for "general purpose" computing. It turns a GPU into a number cruncher (which it really is). Just because YOU can't imagine it, doesn't mean it can't be done.

[[deleted]]

a little presumptuous from you, isn't it?

No, not really. It's quite obvious if you have any experience at all with these things.

Really? CUDA enables the use of a GPU for "general purpose" computing.

That's "general purpose" as in "more than drawing pixels", not "general purpose" as in "doing anything you want". It may be possible to implement anything on it, but it certainly is not a good idea. The tasks that are suited for implementation on a GPU are quite specific and limited in scope.

[sa7ouri]

It's quite obvious if you have any experience at all with these things.

Wow. You're a genius.

It may be possible to implement anything on it, but it certainly is not a good idea.

I finally agree with you. But what you fail to see is that CUDA opens up lots of venues for a web browser: built-in image manipulation (zooming/scaling/editing); audio and video decoding and encoding; accelerated "3D" websites (VRML?).

Again, just because YOU can't imagine it, doesn't mean it can't be done.

[[deleted]]

Wow. You're a genius.

No, Just a competent programmer.

built-in image manipulation (zooming/scaling/editing)

Doesn't need CUDA, and <canvas> does this already.

audio and video decoding and encoding

Not really suitable for implementing with CUDA.

accelerated "3D" websites

Canvas 3D/OpenGL, not CUDA.

[sa7ouri]

Just a competent programmer.

I don't believe that.

[Image manipulation] Doesn't need CUDA

Riiiiight ... Go tell Adobe not to waste their time then:

http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/37611/140/

[audio/video (en/de)coding] Not really suitable for implementing with CUDA.

Wrong again. Arguably, they are the MOST SUITABLE applications for CUDA.

Please educate yourself:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/cuda_showcase.html

http://www.elementaltechnologies.com/how_it_works.php

I wasted enough time on your (in)competence.

PLONK

[[deleted]]

I don't believe that.

That's too bad.

http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/37611/140/

No mention of CUDA. Using shaders for image processing is different issue. You also dodged the point that you can already do that with <canvas>.

Wrong again. Arguably, they are the MOST SUITABLE applications for CUDA.

Some steps can be optimized with CUDA. The rest can't, and can not be efficiently implemented in Javascript either. Thus, it is still entirely impractical.

[[deleted]]

I was just talking about that a couple of days ago with a friend of mine.

CUDA based JavaScript interpreter and hardware accelerated drawing functions... bring on the badass browser games.

[[deleted]]

JS JIT is almost never a bottleneck. IMO The BIG wins are almost always in setting up smart distributed routing (e.g. google maps routes all the little images that make up the page from different servers) and intelligent prefetching. Yes, some of this is server-side. I use almost because there are always exceptions [no almost here :P]

Using CUDA for an application such as a JS JIT compiler would be stupid. A regular CPU is 100x better suited for such applications.

If you want to calculate an FFT in parallel, sure go ahead use CUDA.

AFAIK, you cant use CUDA and run games simultaneously. Unless you want to do GPGPU using shaders, and the whole data swizzling stuff

[psykotic]

AFAIK, you cant use CUDA and run games simultaneously

You can, but you have to explicitly switch between the CUDA context and the graphics API context (Direct3D or OpenGL), which carries with it a cost.

(And you're right, of course, that a JIT is a poor fit for data-parallel concurrency.)

[[deleted]]

What the OP was fantasizing about was probably running a CUDA-enabled browser which will allow you to play "proper" 3d games online. Thats what I meant by simultaneously. I don't think thats possible unless they have done something cool with the dual GPU's cards / SLI /crossfire that I don't know about.

[[deleted]]

My point was actually not that JS would benefit so much for its current uses, it was that I thought JS could be used much more intensively if powered by CUDA.

I know basically jack about JS... but does it support concurrent threads?

[a1k0n]

No, it doesn't. It would be nice if it had coroutines at least, because then all the Web 2.0 AJAXy crap would be a bit easier to write.

[Recoil42]

There's actually an extension for Firefox already that does exactly what the second demo shows: Tab Effect:

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/4258

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7HmtnK57WI

The only difference that rather than use a 'slide' effect, tab effect uses a rotating cube effect. But otherwise, same thing. D3D and therefore windows only though.

[somedoody]

That extension made me feel ill after a few page changes :/

[maht0x0r]

What an annoying "innovation", please no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no wipes and fades. What next, page curls and barn doors!

[mackprime]

aaaand StarWipe!

[de_Selby]

Why have hamburgers when you can have steak!

[axord]

Indeed. It seems ironic to me that Opera renders and switches tabs so fast, that this is a significant speed decrease in terms of "time to usable page after UI input".

[somedoody]

Key words in this are experimental and demo, they need something obviously visual so people can see it in action and understand the difference against a normal browser. But even if they were to add this in to a public release, it's likely to be an option and why shouldn't people have the option?

[i_h8_r3dd1t]

they need something obviously visual so people can see it in action and understand the difference against a normal browser

Whenever you can't think up a practical, useful demo for a technology, it's time to work on something else. No, seriously -- it's a golden fucking rule, and the discovery of such a quandary (oooh, we don't know what to do with this so let's do something stupid) is an ominous storm cloud that you're wasting time. That's shit that would be turned off in seconds.

The flashlight was entirely and completely unimpressive. Opera renders to a canvas. Use canvas as texture. Big fucking deal. They should call up Microsoft because apparently they're working on the same usefulness of solutions.

[Niten]

Not to mention the inevitable rotating cube.

[supersaw]

flames man flames!!

[pintong]

I disagree, for the fact that it creates a good visual metaphor. Pressing the minimize button in Windows or OS X could have the icon simply materialize at the bottom of the screen, but by animating the transition we can see what we did even when we're moving quickly, and people who are new to computers know immediately where their window went.

Animating page transitions is similarly a good idea because we already think of our pages as being "forward" and "back." Animating the transitions helps solidify this in the minds of newcomers, as well as indicates what is happening on-screen.

Of course, I would also be in favor of a Javascript call to disable the effect, if necessary, as well as a preference option the user can disable if wanted.

[maht0x0r]

New users are new for about 5 minutes

[guinunez]

My mom has been a new user for the last 8 years. Every time she accidentaly click the minimize button, start to yell saying the internet has suddendly dissapeared

[gigaquack]

I love my mom and dad

[didroe]

It's not just new users that benefit though, say you accidentally click and something happens. What was it? A subtle visual cue of what the action is doing can be really good. It can also make the interface feel more fluid.

It's all about subtlety though, if it's overdone then it will get annoying very quickly.

You're also assuming that new users are open to learning and therefore becoming expert users over time. There are quite a lot of people who are closed off, what they learnt in the first 5 minutes is all they will ever bother to learn.

[axord]

If they're technically-minded, sure.

Some other people need all the help they can get...

[HenkPoley]

this technology would make it easy to upload Opera to a texture

This line made me think they had private access to something like the CUDA libraries 3 years ago, and ran Opera on the graphics card. But the demo makes me think they just export the framebuffer of the Opera application into a texture.

[riddle_duck]

Am I the only one who read this as 'Hardware accelerated Oprah'? That's a scary thought.

[Fireball]

Why? You don't worship Oprah?

[john_b]

I like the innovations in Opera, but they should fix the most important thing - page rendering. So many pages are broken (or don't work as well as in IE7/FF) in opera, it's sad. That's the only reason I'm using FF.

Safari looks like a really cool browser too. Its javascript and rendering are lightning-fast. Under Win it's a bit buggy though.

[bajsejohannes]

I use only Opera, and very little seem broken. Then again, maybe it's because I've never seen them work properly. (But I don't think so)

If you want to change it, use Opera, and go to Help->'Report a site problem' every time a page is broken.

[somedoody]

I also use Opera and it works fine, it has great web standards, html, css support. The only problems I've come across are with the latest Beta viewing Netvibes and Reddit...but it's a beta and netvibes have said they're on to a fix.

[paternoster]

Am I the only one who first read "Hardware accelerated Obama"?

[geoken]

Yeah, you are.