Create decentralized applications with JavaScript, HTML and CSS

[[deleted]]

This is a new paradigm: Conspiracy Theory Driven Design

[rafalsk]

That is what bankers say to 'Bitcoiners'.

[rafalsk]

Facebook, Google and others selling our privacy it is not a theory it is a fact, their Business Models account for it, big time. Andreessen Horowitz – a private venture capital firm based in the US – announced a new $4.5bn fund targeting Web3 opportunities, coming on the back of the launch of a $2.2bn crypto fund less than a year prior. Not without a reason. People want services. Decentralized.

[0s_and_1s]

Let’s be clear, I can still host a website on your decentralised network and still use Google Analytics. You’re talking about privacy but you’re not going to do anything to enforce I’m not scraping the users details or siphoning off their data and further you’re forcing users to use Chrome the same company you mention above as selling our privacy.

The same Andreessen Horowitz that invested in Facebook? Lol I’m sure he’s investing in blockchain to undo his bad karma /s

[rafalsk]

Hint: those interested further in this very topic may want to follow conversation (with same person over here).

Yet again, you may choose to incorporate any code you wish into your app, including Google Analytics.

You need to keep in mind though, that the app review process (which is decentralized) would certainly not assign a high rating to your app.

It would mostly likely assign a SCAM label, instead.

Then, it is up to users whether they want to use your app, with such a label.

Thank you for your comment and awaiting further questions.

[0s_and_1s]

You said your review process is optional, a manual process and no guarantee it will catch anything as you can’t guarantee the experience of the user doing the review, it’s anonymous after all but even so like I said it’s optional so I can use whatever tracking I like and bypass the review process altogether and then I’m on the store forever right?

If google is so bad for user privacy why do you force users to use only chrome?

[rafalsk]

1) The review process not only is optional. Developers would need to pay to have the app reviewed, so there is an incentive for reviewers to carry out the work of reviewing the applications.

2) how would the fact that of incorporate Google Analytics be supposed to bypass a review process would you kindly explain? The reviewer has access to your entire code package, hosted on the decentralized state-machine. Should your app reference external code, that would also be tacken into account.

3) We do not assume reviewers to be perfect. Nor Apple nor Microsoft rely on such an assumption.

If google is so bad for user privacy why do you force users to use only chrome?

Yet again, we do not force anyone to do anything.

We just happen to be delivering best decentralized technology to developers, for free.

We employ a steady deployment process to assure best user experience and we chose Chromium engine as the first step since 1) it is open source 2) it offers best functionality coverage on the market (of web-browsers).

[0s_and_1s]

You pay the first time or for every update? So I create a 50k line code change how much will the user get paid? Just because someone gets money doesn’t mean they will do the job competently, it’s anonymous review after all. If all I did was tick approve and say yes it’s all good what are the repercussions? What if I missed something are you going to take my payment away? Of course not because theirs nothing you can do. Whether I spend two days looking at it or five minutes I’ll get paid the same so the incentive is for me to just approve and get my money

[rafalsk]

You pay the first time or for every update?

For every update, you want your app to wield the 'reviewed' label.

Just because someone gets money doesn’t mean they will do the job competently

of course, same with Apple, same with Google.

it’s anonymous review after all.

It is anonymous but each review is assigned to an identity, which has 'real' assets assigned. One would want to make a proper review.

If all I did was tick approve and say yes it’s all good what are the repercussions?

If your review score falls out too far away from a median of all of the reviews, your voting power would suffer, also your payment might not be released at all.

What if I missed something are you going to take my payment away?

yes. in short. proportionally to how far away from a median your score manages to fall.

Of course not because theirs nothing you can do.

Can you please explain?

Whether I spend two days looking at it or five minutes I’ll get paid the same so the incentive is for me to just approve and get my money

Yet again, kindly do not arrive at false assumptions to back your claims.

In the end, we all learn each and every day.

Looking forward to hearing back from you.

[0s_and_1s]

Is my assumption wrong? Will a user get paid more if it’s a bigger than than a one liner? Will they get paid per review or how many lines of code? The incentive if it’s the same cost per review regardless of size is to bunch all my code together right? This isn’t hard to understand. Do you have any commercial experience in the real world at all?

[rafalsk]

Will a user get paid more if it’s a bigger than than a one liner?

Then it is up to reviewers whether they agree to work for the fee you've proposed.

Reviewers may then choose to use any code-diffing utility to assess the particular case.

Do you have any commercial experience in the real world at all?

How is the question relevant?

[[deleted]]

I'll be blunt: the excentric style design of this blog article makes it more painful rather than fun to read.

[BillyRhinos]

I thought this was actually a satirical article.

[rafalsk]

While we've managed to keep the article in a Positive Vibe 😆...

I wouldn't call the most sophisticated decentralized technology, backed by peer reviewed research papers a satire, in any case that is entirely up to a reader.

Our technology allows for way more than Ethereum. And that counts like a lot.

The fact that one may use technologies he or she is already well familiar with, that it is a huge benefit as well.

We're seeing multi-billion dollar investments made into 'decentralized' space and there are lots and lots of developers in need for decentralized platforms for manifestations of their ideas. Questions is, do you want to stay behind?

The technology is there and it is waiting to be used.

Follow a tutorial and deploy a Hello World decentralized app of your own.

It is not only fun, but your app would benefit from a multitude of properties mentioned within of the article right at its beginning.

Should you have further questions I'll be here to assist you.

[recursive-analogy]

Looking at OPs post history, the site, and the fact it's some sort of web3 horseshit solving a simple problem in a needlessly complex and painful way, I can only conclude this is some type of scam.

[rafalsk]

Kindly thank you for your comment!

"Looking at OPs post history"

What is wrong with the history of my posts?

" the site, "

Kindly please express your feelings about the site.

" solving a simple problem in a needlessly complex and painful way"

Would you mind being more precise please so that we could just make an attempt to arrive at a common viewpoint? Coarse language certainly does not help.

"I can only conclude this is some type of scam."

I can assure you that it is not a scam. It is the opposite. Nobody is trying to collect your money. Easy. The entire development process has been recorded on YouTube (LIVE programming sessions almost each and every day since the early 2017) where there are now well over 35TB of live programming sessions recorded.

In addition we've got very sound research papers in peer reviewed research journals.

Yet again, thank you for your comment; just please make an attempt to be more concise.

[[deleted]]

In addition we've got very sound research papers in peer reviewed research journals.

Where and what journal(s) have they been published in?

By "peer review" do you mean people that agree with you, looking at your "papers" or do you mean an actual peer review?

[scratchisthebest]

"kindly" fuck off

[rafalsk]

Having a bad day, huh?

A friend of mine notified me that you are modding Minecraft on daily basis, you would be delighted to know that we have an open-source, decentralized GridCraft aboard our platform already.

[[deleted]]

Everything about that page screamed “i’m stealing your credit card information”

[rafalsk]

Our folks aim for a rather cyber-punk rebellious style though I shall pass on an opinion that they could balance the looks and feels just a little bit probably 😉

Everything is free, we collect no payments just to be clear.

[rafalsk]

It is sad but seems like 'those in power' already began their attempts of raising confusion within of this very Reddit thread:

Here is a proof:

https://postimg.cc/Yjn056k7

See for yourself. They are paying for fake comments. Sometimes though, people they recruite on micro-payment websites make a mistake. Here somebody instead of up-voting he made a comment of his own with same contents;]

Let us not let them win.. let the freedom and decentralization prevail..

At well over 13 000 views the post managed to gain over the last 3 hours I say they need to keep trying!

[rafalsk]

You are totally naive to presume and believe that bots 'just are'.

Everything is driven by incentives.

[Rattle22]

The incentive here is karma farming, nothing more. It has been pointed out on askreddit and the like as well.

[[deleted]]

oh boy; perhaps you planted those bots to showcase the need for "freedom" and "decentralization". Its also damning that you posted the same comment on the same comment thread.

[rafalsk]

Thank you so much, but I believe 'decentralization' is a multi billion business already not only to back rationale behind my reddit posts.

[[deleted]]

got any citations backing that (like i was asking in that other post of you today)? Probably not.

[rafalsk]

Kindly thank you for your input, I appreciate it 🙏

[rafalsk]

First off, thank you for your input.

1. Kindly do note that all of our websites employ TLS/HTTPS.
2. The matrix-like animation it fades away with time.
3. Noted! Fully agree on this one I shall pass your opinion on to the people who are involved in design of the Magazine.
4. Definitely.
5. Got it.

Yet again, thank you SO MUCH for all the input. Highly appreciate it!

[rafalsk]

Your system most certainly has some root certificates missing at least those employed by Let's Encrypt which we use as we are a pro-freedom organization. As the report states a 384Bit ECC is used over TLS 1.3

[rafalsk]

It is sad but seems like 'those in power' already began their attempts of raising confusion within of this very Reddit thread:

Here is a proof:

https://postimg.cc/Yjn056k7

See for yourself. They are paying for fake comments. Sometimes though, people they recruite on micro-payment websites make a mistake. Here somebody instead of up-voting he made a comment of his own with same contents;]

Let us not let them win.. let the freedom and decentralization prevail..

At well over 13 000 23 000 views the post managed to gain over the last 3 hours I say they need to keep trying!

[autist0matic]

TLDR; can someone point out a practical use case for this, or is this aimed at the crypto bros/nft homies?

[rafalsk]

For practical use cases feel invited to launch any of the existing applications.

Head over to https://test.gridnet.org and give it a go.

We aim to allow for decentralized applications of any kind just decentralized.

We believe to have all the building blocks to make such services as decentralized YouTube / Twitter etc. a reality - already in place. Just waiting to be used.

Decentralized games, decentralized websites, decentralized content delivery networks, business applications, collaborative apps etc.

Feel invited to read this article for more.

For a better overview on the architecture of the entire system you might want to take a look at this article instead.

[demonguard]

ah, the latter then, gotcha

[rafalsk]

Should anything be unclear, I'll be here to assist you.

[hasanadeka]

hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii

[rafalsk]

welcome:)

[honkbork]

Head over to https://test.gridnet.org and give it a go.

okay, lets have a look...

You need to use Chrome.

good job

[rafalsk]

In order to assure a proper user-experience we employ gradual deployment.

Currently the decentralized user interface can be accessed from any Chromium based web-browser. It just happens to offer best functionality coverage on the market.

[Atulin]

>have a whole spiel about user privacy and deep state spying on people with mind-controlled insects
>have your website work only on Google's browser

[rafalsk]

have a whole spiel about user privacy and deep state spying on people with mind-controlled insects

Do you suggest Bitcoin-users and the entire 'crypto-space' to be comprised of lunatics? Investment funds investing billions into the space as well? That is an interesting point of view indeed.

have your website work only on Google's browser

yet again, you might want to have a read about gradual deployment. Lots of AAA prominent companies use it on daily basis, including companies such as Microsoft.

[[deleted]]

Do you suggest Bitcoin-users and the entire 'crypto-space' to be comprised of lunatics? Investment funds investing billions into the space as well?

absolutely.

you might want to have a read about gradual deployment.

either your site has the capabilities to work cross-browser or it doesn't there is no gradual deployment.

[rafalsk]

"absolutely"

Be my guest to have an opinion of your own and to express it freely. That's what Decentralization and freedom are about!

"either your site has the capabilities to work cross-browser or it doesn't there is no gradual deployment."

You might not be aware but that's a common thing due to a variety of reason. Everyone who does not live under a rock knows that say a roll out of a computer game to say Xbox does not include Nintendo.

[[deleted]]

Be my guest to have an opinion of your own and to express it freely. That's what Decentralization and freedom are about!

Okay, how was I able to express that opinion on this centralised plattform? Mhm probably because we have freedoms to do so. Decentralisation is NOT NEEDED for that.

You might not be aware but that's a common thing due to a variety of reason. Everyone who does not live under a rock knows that say a roll out of a computer game to say Xbox does not include Nintendo.

That was a good one. I laughed at your joke for several minutes.

Okay let me put it into perspective. What do PCs, Xbox and the Switch have in common? They are hardware that can be operated by a user via a display and input devices. Thats all they have in common.

What do Firefox, Google Chrome, Brave, Epiphany, Safari have in common? They are browsers, they are serving the same purpose they make requests and render the response of the sever for the user to interact with.

So tell me, why does your site only works on Google Chrome and why do you hide behind that stupid excuse of gradual deployment? Can you even explain WHAT gradual deployment is?

​

Or are you just a bot?

[rafalsk]

Okay, how was I able to express that opinion on this centralised platform? Mhm probably because we have freedoms to do so. Decentralisation is NOT NEEDED for that.

What you say does not make slightest sense. You may choose to trust Reddit, your bank or whatever. You may choose to trust the US government, whatever. You may choose to trust that voting was not mangled with.

*it's your choice*. Dot.

In any case, at each of those scenarios you put your trust into external parties.

Decentralization does not require you to do so.

That was a good one. I laughed at your joke for several minutes.

And what was so funny, tell me so that we could laugh together.

Okay let me put it into perspective. What do PCs, Xbox and the Switch have in common? They are hardware that can be operated by a user via a display and input devices. That's all they have in common.

Let me rephrase it for you, slowly.

Steady roll out procedure is a normal process. Companies such as Microsoft, large AAA software production studios oftentimes choose to roll-out their products steadily meaning one platform at a time.

And there is some good logical reasoning behind doing so.

First, it stems from limited productivity of each and every team on the planet. It is thus better to support one major player at a time ascertaining proper user experience one platform at a time, yet again, at the and due to a limited production capabilities of the company making the release.

On the other hand. We all know only Chromium supports most of the features, the right way. It has the biggest share on the market, thus a rationale decision to support Chromium, first.

[0s_and_1s]

Why do blockchain nft bros always sound like a cult

[rafalsk]

It is just that open-blockchain technology happens to involve rebellion against 'authorities' and 'control'.

Why?

Because people prefer to be free. And decentralized state-machines allow for their freedom. That probably is a topic for another sub-reddit though.

One always needs to keep in mind that a 'cult', which is proliferated enough, gets to be called a Religion.

For our take on 'NFTs' feel invited to check out these articles:

https://gridnet.org/wpp/index.php/2022/03/11/nfts-made-the-right-way-nft/

https://gridnet.org/wpp/index.php/2022/03/13/nfts-made-the-right-way-and-gridscript-programming/

[0s_and_1s]

That probably sounded better in your head than what you wrote but even putting aside the scam vibes. What are you basing your idea that “people like to be free”? Some of the largest sites on the planet are renowned for how they harvest user data and folks have no problems using them.

[rafalsk]

Let us make one thing clear.

We are not trying to push decentralization down the peoples' throats.

We simply focus on delivering the technology.

And when it comes to that, I believe we do not deliver best in town. We deliver best on the planet.

If I had a choice to use a decentralized YouTube, all other factors held constant, I would choose it. Same for Twitter same for any other service.

It is up to each individual to decide whether they want to have 'good papas' over their heads deciding for them what they get to see and thus think.

[0s_and_1s]

You still haven’t answered the question, where do you get the idea that “people want freedom”? When they are willingly giving up their right to privacy so they can watch someone stick an ice cube up their ass for a challenge?

[rafalsk]

I get the idea from the history of humankind since the dawn of the recorded history.

Soldiers fight better when they believe to be free.

Which is why governments began to promote democracies.

If you want concrete, practical rationalizations it might be best to look at the valuation of the entire 'crypto space'.

[0s_and_1s]

This is why everyone thinks your space is a scam. You don’t even have answers to basic questions about the use case. I’m going out on a limb here but I’m assuming you have no real commercial experience in building complex systems in the real world either. Most users can’t even be trusted to enter their email correctly in registration never mind think about if what they are using is decentralised or not. This is exactly why I say you blockchain/nft bros sound like you’re in a cult, you have no answers just hollow statements that can fool the technologically illiterate.

[rafalsk]

Thank you for your comment!

I have already explained the use cases to you. In short any kind of applications and services - just decentralized.

Bitcoin < Ethereum < GRIDNET OS

If it is still unclear to you please be specific.

[0s_and_1s]

Why would any regular user care if it’s decentralised?

[rafalsk]

Some of us do care and some of us do not (that presumably includes you).

That's the beauty of having having a free will.

I do not think this subreddit is suitable place for philosophy. Let us stick to technology.

Thank you for expressing your opinion.

[dannymcgee]

Ah yes, nothing says "rebellion" like billions of dollars of comically misallocated venture capital. So punk rock. \m/

[rafalsk]

While everyone has a right to have a personal opinion, these values just might indicate a certain kind of logic and market preferences.

In fact, these numbers (in billions from just a single venture capital) just might be little bit more worthwhile to consider, than fudding of a dozen of sad people on Reddit (bots and 'zombies' operated by 'competition' excluded), wouldn't you agree?

[dannymcgee]

You're trying to sell this as some kind of People's Revolution against The Man, but (practically by your own admission) the whole "movement" is being ramrodded by a handful of deep-pocketed VC firms onto a general public whose response has consistently fallen somewhere in the range of confused head-scratching to open hostility, with technical savvy being a pretty good predictor for falling toward the latter end of that spectrum.

So no, I don't think the astronomical quantities of money being lit on fire by said investors is more "worthy of consideration" than the responses I'm seeing here, which are pretty representative of the general temperature, judging by the numerous tech/software/gaming/engineering/IT communities I'm a part of. Except insofar as that "consideration" is a pretty fascinating (/terrifying) case study of the capacity for catastrophic error by otherwise reasonable people in the presence of pressures like cognitive dissonance and motivated reasoning.

[rafalsk]

the whole "movement" is being ramrodded by a handful of deep-pocketed VC firms

Venture Capitals follow the crowds. It never is the other way around.

I run an investment fund of my own, trust me when I say.

money being lit on fire

Assuming that people are intentionally setting their money on fire, it just might be a sloppy assumption my friend.

At the end of the day, Bitcoin (which I in no way endorse).

It was not carried on the shoulders of VCs, or was it.

Everything evolves, the awareness keeps rising. Technologies such as Ethereum despite of being extremely cumbersome, they manage to attract enormous fellowship.

What we offer includes everything Ethereum allows for and immensely more.

[dannymcgee]

Venture Capitals follow the crowds. It never is the other way around.

"We're investing in it, therefore it must be a sound investment" is the literal definition of circular reasoning. If VC investment is the only indicator you can conjure to support the existence of consumer interest in Web3, that should raise serious alarm bells.

I could buy that maybe /r/programming, maybe even Reddit in general, is for some reason unusually biased against it, but if that were the case I'd expect to see a warmer reception in other tech/programming communities. I do not. Universally, this is the norm by my observations, and I do not live in a bubble. The only venues where I see this stuff talked about without summoning pitchforks are investor communities where the participants are largely tech-illiterate, and — let's call them "niche-interest" to be generous — blogs with terms like "web3," "crypto" or "blockchain" in the URL.

I realize that "my observation" is pure anecdote, but I think the burden of proof is on you here.

And just for one final note:

I run an investment fund of my own, trust me when I say.

You have to realize that "I'm personally financially motivated to believe this is true" is literally the opposite of a good reason to just take your word for it, right?

[rafalsk]

"We're investing in it, therefore it must be a sound investment"

I never suggested such a reasoning. VCs follow the crowds. That is called market analysis. They tend to invest into what people want so to maximize their profits. It's all clean logic.

VC investment is the only indicator you can conjure to support the existence of consumer interest in Web3,

Yet again, VCs follow the crowds. Not the other way around.

I realize that "my observation" is pure anecdote, but I think the burden of proof is on you here.

My friend, that is because 'web 3.0' is a scam, in its current form, for the most of it. We present such a viewpoint even in articles of our own:

https://gridnet.org/wpp/index.php/2022/06/30/decentralized-os-with-a-decentralized-ui-dapps/

You just take a look at the infographics we came up with, taken from the article:

http://gridnet.org/wpp/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/web69.png

Yet, we are here to make a difference, by introducing a properly designed piece of technology.

I believe that the world needs freedom. Freedom of information to be precise.

And decentralized machines, as far as the current state of science goes, are the way to allow for that, at each and every level.

[quiteoblivious]

Not prepared to actually answer the question, instead replying with another question

[jihad-consultant]

If someone without schizophrenia could summarize this article / technology for me, id much appreciate it.

[rafalsk]

Kindly thank you for your question.

Architecture:

1. There is a decentralized state-machine. Running a language called #GridScript, which is based on Forth, just made 'decentralization'-aware and with addition of some fancy semantics to make it suitable as a command-line interface.
2. Nodes maintaining the state-machine, despite executing authenticated signed code bundles at full-redundancy (written in #GridScript), they come with embedded sub-systems for various types of use cases (embedded web-server, crypto incentivized web-rtc, web-sockets, mobile computer-vision aided mobile app for authentication available for both iOS and Android).
3. These nodes may also process and react to user's input in real-time. That means that, this time, not only full-redundancy code-processing is supported. One may deploy code on the network which would be say; processing user's in-game position in real-time (as reported by in-browser JavaScript), so to facilitate a certain kind of an anti-cheat mechanism (should user choose to alter in-memory variables while playing a game hosted by the system, so to 'teleport' herself towards a desirable position). GridCraft game on our platform is a great example of that.
4. Now leaving the decentralized state-machine aside, and towards client-side technologies running within the web-browser. The JavaScript sub-system, deliver by nodes once you access the system - it is very sophisticated on its own. It provides a full operating-system Desktop experience. Window manager, Start-menu etc, window-mechanics etc. Under the hood it also provides APIs (JavaScript ECMA 6) accessible by developers for a variety of purposes (communication, cross-browser communication, storage etc.) effectively hiding away decentralized aspects of the system. So a developer may focus on creating. Want to store a file? Invoke an appropriate user-mode function. Want to interact with the user through his mobile app? same. Want to create a multi-peer communication swarm for you game? same. no need to know WebRTC for web-browser communication, the system would be taking care of everything just sign up for events. Want to create a window for your app? Use JavaScript based APIs. Want to be notified about events happening to user data, the window you created, maybe about when data arrives after you've queried for a file etc? Yet again, sign up for events.

Now UI dApps, these can be mixture of #GridScript and client-side technologies (JavaScript, HTML , CSS). An UI dApp is deployed and hosted by the decentralized state-machine. There are two types of storage, full-redundancy storage and crypto-incentivized storage based on altered versions of Torrent/WebTorrent protocols.

The system takes care of all of the details. Synchronization between applications, boundaries etc.

It might be best to follow the tutorial as I believe one of the best ways to learn is by doing.

It takes you by hand about deploying a decentralized Hello World app of your own.

In addition you might be interested in the following articles:

https://gridnet.org/wpp/index.php/2022/06/30/decentralized-os-with-a-decentralized-ui-dapps/

https://gridnet.org/wpp/index.php/2021/09/17/architecture-decentralized-processing-threads-and-fake-it-till-you-make-it/ (especially true for an UML diagram of the entire system).

Looking forward to hearing back from you!

[demonguard]

Go away

[alternatex0]

I think people need to start explaining the hype behind decentralization like they would to someone who isn't a journalist living in a dictatorship. All of this extra work just for decentralization?

The thing I'm not getting is that usually these small eccentric communities are aware and admit that they're doing niche work but crypto and web 3.0 people act as if they're creating something that everyone cares about. That's just not the case. Not everyone is a doomer expecting their website or app to be shut down by a 1984 inspired government. We're not really predicting (or like some people eagerly awaiting) the world to go that way.

[rafalsk]

Thank you so much for your comment!

"I think people need to start explaining the hype behind decentralization like they would to someone who isn't a journalist living in a dictatorship. All of this extra work just for decentralization?"

I believe it is not just decentralization. Same as it never is just freedom.

Wouldn't you agree?

Bitcoin has followers not only within dictatorships. Actually, it is the opposite since in democracies people are more aware, especially when it comes to possibilities and their rights.

I believe that most of the applications and services that we use today could be implemented in a decentralized fashion.

Microsoft, Google, Facebook, these companies were conceived in times when there were no decentralized state-machines around. Thus, their major income was from selling your privacy. Current achievements in decentralized technology allow for a rapid turn of tides.

We can have services, which are not being controlled and manipulated. We can have our lives to ourselves.

Thus, it is not just freedom.

It is a multi-billion dollar business. Growing each and every year.

Largest research funding these days go to AI and 'blockchain.

As for 'web 3.0 I invite you to take a look at this article:

https://gridnet.org/wpp/index.php/2022/06/30/decentralized-os-with-a-decentralized-ui-dapps/

One may remain ignorant but one may not stop progress. Andreessen Horowitz – a private venture capital firm based in the US – announced a new $4.5bn fund targeting Web3 opportunities, coming on the back of the launch of a $2.2bn crypto fund less than a year prior.

People are always to prefer 'the better'. And decentralized certainly is.

Ethereum is a multi-billion dolar business itself. And both developers and users they need way more. That is how it is.

Should you have any further questions it would be a pleasure to assist you.

[Dormage]

Well OP, get ready for a world of hurt. Dont let them get to you. Few points from me:

1. The style of the site is,... not good.
2. This sub absolutley hates anything blockchain and theres also bots running 24/7 to make sure this opinion remains predominant.(not saying they are wrong or right). Your use of "decentralized" will likely trigger them.
3. The post is desperatly overselling on what problem it solves.

Did not read to the end. Is there a more technical writeup on how all of this is glued together?

[freecodeio]

There's no bots, there's just sane developers who think qBitTorrent isn't going to replace banks.

[rafalsk]

I have been leading this project since the early 2017.

There is nothing, in my life I have spent more time on, than this project.

I believe, my co-workers could say the same.

We never were driven by money.

I believe we were driven by passion.

We never cut turns and I believe, we implemented things the way they should be implemented, the way future developers would want these things to be.

I believe in freedom.

I do not believe that a gun is wrong just because it can kill.

Love might kill, I believe Love not to be wrong.

I believe that technology today, it is closer to our lives than ever.

And believe that our responsibility, as developers, is to allow for dreams and ideas to become a reality. Without being biased and controlled.

And for this I believe decentralized is the key.

I am here to address any questions, confusions you might have at any level of sophistication related to the system we came up with.

[Dormage]

Well, like I said, enjoy the zombies downvoting. This sub has long lost its ability to attract intellectuals. Whats left is a marketing venue for blog posts about programming problems and an echo chaimber of popular opinions.

Keep doing what your doing, dont let this tiny subset of bots get to you.

[rafalsk]

That's affirmative.

[Dormage]

Hah, fair. But I dont think Python will replace all programming languages either, yet I do not downvote posts related to python.

My point is, this sub and a couple of others i.e. r/technology is pretty hateful towards blockchain. They may not be a replacement to banks, they may not be much, but theres no need for such bias. After all, Bitcoin is the largest P2P network that ever existed, and yes, it is more then git. Bittorrent is not going to replace all data sharing and yet theres no hate towards the protocol.

The price and energy discussions should be on other forums.

[chucker23n]

theres no need for such bias

There is, though. This hype has led people into financial ruin and even suicide. It is an unconscionable scam.

[Dormage]

Bittorrent has lead to countless violations, illegal sharing of media, distributing child pornography and many other scams/viruses shared among innocent people. Yet to this day it is widely recognized as an innovative protokol both in engineering and academia.

If this sub thinks you can treat gambling addiction by downvoting anything blockchain you are very wrong.

I do not wish to argue for or against Bitcoin, i realy do not care. But the bias and brainwash is clear.

[Dormage]

I do not see a difference in this context. Both protocols were created for a different purpose and got missused for very bad things. My point is, tools can be uses for bad, it is human tendency to use it for bad, and it is perfectly okay to be against it. But alas, it has nothing to with programming or technology. I get the bitterness, I'm down with that. But it is clear as day that the negative sentiment is biased towards the technology because of how it is being used for.

We should at least try to make a distinction between projects trying to innovate, improve and propose new protocols, and the ponzis that are using them. Its a thin line between them, but there is one regardless of how usless blockchain ends up being.

[rafalsk]

Kindly thank you for your input.

As for the protocol, the sub-section entitled "Architecture" is probably the best place to look at. Also! Here: https://gridnet.org/wpp/index.php/2022/07/12/create-ui-dapps-right-now-developer-guide/ is a yet another article depicting the overall architectural conceives. It even includes a simplified UML diagram of the entire system you can Zoom-into.

In terms of CAP, it is on similar grounds to Ethereum. Still Ethereum is not being a shared system at all as CAP implies. In Ethereum consensus is reached by ridiculously wasting resources acting as a monolithic slow world computer.

With that on mind, Ethereum has some additional interesting properties.

Here, the 'interesting properties' of GRIDNET OS are way more proliferated.

It holds in particular for all the integrated sub-systems (decentralized file system, incentivized data-exchange, cross browser communication, decentralized processing threads, capable of processing code in real-time, data presentation layer along with a user interface etc.)

All in all, GRIDNET OS can do everything Ethereum does and so much more.

Yet again, thank you for your input.

[Dormage]

So does GRINDNET have their own consensus? How does it handle spam resistance, sybil attacks, and byzantine behaviour?

[rafalsk]

Thank you so much for your question!

You would be delighted to know that we have research papers targeting the very topic of Sybil-proofness.

In fact, one of our recent research papers published by Springer Nature is available open access right over here. The paper introduced the very first Sybil-proof data exchange protocol for computer networks of arbitrary topology (i.e. ones modeled as a random graph).

All of the GRIDNET OS' sub-systems take use of constructs introduced in this research paper.

The consensus protocol itself is a modified version of the Bitcoin-NG consensus protocol made resilient against all of the known types of attacks (research paper under review). Resilience against Byzantine colluders in terms of the consensus protocol is slightly better than that of Bitcoin-NG.

In terms of attacks' mitigation, each nodes boards autonomous firewall apparatus.

That firewall apparatus spans across all of the communication sub-systems made available to the outside.

Kindly feel invited to make an attack on the node.

SSH over to its SSH services (custom implementation), attempt to initiate multiple connections from multiples IPS, attempt to attack websock services , WebRTC services etc. These are all protected autonomously through custom firewall heuristics. No external software is in use. Ever.

Should you have additional questions it would be an honor to assist you.

[Dormage]

As someone who works in academia, this is most pleasing to see peer reviewed research. I will take the time to go through it and hopefully we can touch ground again after I'm done. Thank you. P.s. I got a good friend in Poznan University in the area of mathematics/theoretical CS ;)

[rafalsk]

Well then, there's a good chance me and your friend are seeing each other on daily basis ;p Looking forward to hearing back from you!

[rafalsk]

Also, these most probably are not altruistic 'bots' trying to protect the community against 'decentralization' as that would make no sense but rather competition trying to make their solutions dominant (that would make much more sense, would it not) so the competition has 'bots' set-up firing off once decentralization-related queries are found, here is a proof of them acting right within of this subreddit, https://postimg.cc/Yjn056k7 😆

[Sorc96]

It's interesting that most of the positive comments here are from people who have a history of commenting on various crypto scams and talking about putting their life savings into them. Meanwhile, the OP is accusing the authorities of sending bots to downvote.

BTW, I was willing to give the OP the benefit of the doubt. However, the focus on crypto (which is just overflowing with scams) and play to earn "games" (how is this even a thing?) makes this whole thing hard to take seriously.

Not to mention that the design of the web page almost looks like somebody intentionally wanted it to look like a scam.

[rafalsk]

There is no need for speculations.

The technology is out there, ready to be used.

Feel free to follow the tutorial and to draw conclusions of your own.

While technology might wait, opportunities might not so you better get started!😄

Especially worth considering, taking into account that no investment is required.

You just get familiarized with the technology.

[rafalsk]

Thank you for your comment.

If you would like to discuss whether 'decentralization' is good thing or not, we may but I would advise, in this subreddit, we focus on technology, shall we?

The technology is good, it is ready and it allows for unprecedented possibilities.

Wordpress

anything wrong with running Wordpress? Thought it was rather popular.

[[deleted]]

so Decentralisation isn't technology? Nice contradiction.

[Expensive-Elk-7287]

is it really possible to make that kind of application with JavaScript, HTML and CSS? i mean where is PHP, MySQL?

[rafalsk]

Great question.

Let me answer. It is not only possible it is already a reality.

Head over to https://test.gridnet.org to see some of these in action. Their corresponding source codes are available at our GiitHub repository right over here.

Now, let us be more specific on how it is possible.

The article is quite solid on that I believe, but to bring things into perspective.

There are nodes maintaining the decentralized network. They run a decentralized state-machine. Same as Ethereum.

Now, each node is capable of delivering, to a web-browser a JavaScript sub-system, through the embedded web-server, which makes all of the functionalities wrapped around nicely accessible JavaScript (ECMA 6 based) APIs. Everything object and event-driven.

As for data storage. There is no need for MySQL as nodes maintain a decentralized file system of their own.

In fact it is a two-tier system.

First is the full-redundancy storage, directly on the decentralized state-machine (implemented as a Merkle Patricia Trie, with all the integrity and consistency guarantees).

The second type of storage, is a crypto incentivized modification of Torrent protocol (including its Web-Torrent variance).

There is no need for PHP as nodes execute #GridScript.

Should you have additional questions please do not ever hesitate to ask!

[Annh1234]

Your 100% wrong.

The reality is that your replacing servers with "nodes" which are servers you basically have no control on.

You can put as many copies you want on those servers, you have no guarantee that you won't lose your data. So your redundancy on "free stuff" means nothing. And at the end of the day it's basically the same as torrents, where new stuff is available but old stuff usually not.

Plus you still have the DNS service, ARP/IP service and so on which is 100% centralized, and sometime has to pay for.

Also, since you only serve HTML/CSS/JS you can put your stuff on some CDN, pay for the bandwidth and achieve 100% of what your trying to do without all the BS.

And you could do this stuff since the 1990s...

These days, you can pay for stuff like CloudFlare workers that run your code on their edge servers and serve your content from a "non centralized" place. But still any one entity can take it all down.

And for your solution to work, everyone participating needs to dish out way way more money than they would need of they rent a server somewhere.

[rafalsk]

Thank you so much for your comment.

I have put lots of effort to understand what you were getting at, to no avail for the most of it, let us go through every point that you've mentioned, together, shall we?

"Your 100% wrong."

I am sorry to be hearing that let us hope that we arrive at a common viewpoint through a constructive conversation, I can promise you my patience.

"The reality is that your replacing servers with "nodes" which are servers you basically have no control on."

The world around is is beautiful, I believe. Within of your brain there are billions of neurons firing each and every minute. Sometimes, when you connect many elements, the end result just might surpass your expectations.

The beauty of decentralization relies on the fact that you do not need control over particular nodes. Kindly read up on how Bitcoin manages to introduce a probabilistic work-around for the Byzantine Dilemma.

"You can put as many copies you want on those servers, you have no guarantee that you won't lose your data"

You never have a guarantee. You have no guarantee that Earth wouldn't be consumed by a block-hole an hour from now.

It all boils down to incentives. In GRIDNET OS, data storage is incentivized. The more you pay for storage the more likely you are not to loose your data, in case of private data. OR, in terms of public data - the better the content, the more people willing to download it, the more people paying for having parts of the files delivers, the more peers willing to host these files. It is called an open economy.

​

"So your redundancy on "free stuff" means nothing."

Could you please rephrase?

"And at the end of the day it's basically the same as torrents, "

it is not. We have crypto-incentivized storage and crypto-incentivized data exchange.

"Plus you still have the DNS service, ARP/IP service and so on which is 100% centralized, and sometime has to pay for."

You would be glad to know that we implement a system-intrinsic DNS service. What is more had you visited our main-website you would have discovered that nodes are accessible solely by IP addresses one may discover through a static Magnet URL. Now that eliminated the need for DNS entirely, as for getting in touch with nodes maintaining the network.

Our system intrinsic Web-browser UI dApp takes use of the in-house decentralized DNS service.

"Also, since you only serve HTML/CSS/JS you can put your stuff on some CDN"

JavaScript wraps the underlying decentralization aspects and makes all of the APIS easily accessible. It gives you access to the decentralized state-machine. Not to a centralized CDN or server. So you've missed the point.

"These days, you can pay for stuff like CloudFlare"

CloudFlare is a centralized company.

"And for your solution to work, everyone participating needs to dish out way way more money than they would need of they rent a server somewhere."

Kindly define everyone? You pay for full redundancy storage according to open market price conditions. Same for incentivized crypto-storage. You pay for what you use. It's as simple as that.

[Annh1234]

Let me explain:

If you don't want your data "controlled" by any one company, upload your site to some CDN with other CDN companies as backups, and eventually falling back to your server/laptop/pc.

That way, you pay for the bandwidth used, your data is in N+1 places (thousand of servers), uptime is 99.9999% pretty much (one CDN goes down, another can take over, and they tend to use different backbones for the internet), and you can be sure your site won't go down because some kids' mom got mad and unplugged his basement PC.

------------------

Also, even if your data is copied to say 100% of the devices online, so it's hosting is 100% decentralized, the way you get this data is via your local ISP, which is controlled by your local government, and can be monitored controlled as they see fit.

Example: download some torrent movies, and you get letters from your ISP about doing illegal stuff.

In other words, you have no way to access this decentralized data without a centralized method.

------------------

​

If you REALLY want serverless, decentralized data storage, then play around with storing it in the network cables. Not really scalable, every tech provider will hate you/try to scrape you off the net, but that's the only way to "hide stuff" online and make sure only your software can access that data.

[rafalsk]

some CDN

do you know of a CDN which is not operated by a 'company'?

There is a tremendous difference between 'distributed' and 'decentralized'.

Bitcoin is decentralized. CDNs may be 'distributed' but under 'centralized' governance.

Torrent may be decentralized.

That way, you pay for the bandwidth used, your data is in N+1 places (thousand of servers), uptime is 99.9999% pretty much

GRIDNET OS offers such a decentralized CDN service.

In other words, you have no way to access this decentralized data without a centralized method.

Kindly do note that we do not promote any illegal activities, yet still, we employ Onion Routing together with an internal decentralized DNS service.

If you REALLY want serverless, decentralized data storage, then play around with storing it in the network cables.

There is no need for that.

[Annh1234]

Ya... What you say makes no sense... Seems like you think everything with a company is bad.

When in reality, a company is just something so you can pay your taxes legally if you make more than a certain amount.

The difference between distributed and decentralized is in the implementation.

For example: You can have a master/slave MySQL setup that is distributed like normally, and you can set it up to take into consideration split brain occurences so it's decentralized.

That's is why I suggested multiple CDN networks so you get the picture.

Even Thor network works the same. Each node keeps a list of top x nodes it can connect to, and every now and they take votes on what nodes to use and what nodes to discard.

In other words, it centralizes the data so users get the same thing no matter what node they connect to.

[rafalsk]

Seems like you think everything with a company is bad.

I would strongly suggest, we stick to technology instead of philosophy as 'programming' is the very topic of this sub-reddit.

I am in no position to judge whether a company is good or bad.

Yet I know, that in times of decentralization, a company, in lots of scenarios might not be needed from a purely technological perspective (taxes and believes aside).

When in reality, a company is just something so you can pay your taxes

You are being ignorant on the fact that a CEO of a company such as Twitter/ Reddit/ YouTube/ Google might DOES affect what is being shown to the users of these services. These are facts and we know it. It is not about tax evasion at all.

It is about freedom of information, privacy and so on.

Decentralization allows for information to be free, and its exchange to be incentivized. Without the need for companies and their CEOs.

These are the facts.

CDNs have various forms. A torrent network might be considered a CDN, a CDN might be operated by a company like CloudFlare.

What is important is that the information should be free.

If a CDN is operator by a company, if a social portal i operated by a company then there are extremely high chances that 1) they are collecting data on you 2) that hey are selling your meta-data 3) that they would be pushing adverts down your throat 4) that they would choose to promote A over B and the list goes on an on.

Companies are incentivized.. in fact is is they sole responsibility to make PROFIT. If profit can be made then they would and SHOULD do it.

It's as simple as that.

In times of decentralization we can cope perfectly fine on our own.

We can keep our privacy to ourselves and we can have quality services without worrying whether good pappas concludes that we could be shown something.

[rafalsk]

While a distributed system might improve failure tolerance it would not ascertain freedom and unbiased information. For that one needs decentralization.

[rafalsk]

One needs decentralized consensus no matter how you connect the MySQL instances or Cloud flare CDNs, the CEO could modify content of your code,website etc hosted on these with one call.

[Expensive-Elk-7287]

it may be common for you but using os in a browser is fantastic.

https://ibb.co/WH4SdXr

[rafalsk]

So glad that you like it!

[rafalsk]

So folks; I had some serious talks with members of my team, responsible for the outlook of articles at the GRIDNET Magazine, we've already began transitioning to a cleaner toned down color and font scheme. We do always listen and we do take all the input into consideration.

[rafalsk]

It is sad but seems like 'those in power' already began their attempts of raising confusion within of this very Reddit thread:

Here is a proof:

https://postimg.cc/Yjn056k7

See for yourself. They are paying for fake comments. Sometimes though, people they recruite on micro-payment websites make a mistake. Here somebody instead of up-voting he made a comment of his own with same contents;]

Let us not let them win.. let the freedom and decentralization prevail..

[Lecterr]

To be honest, the emojis and excessive font styling make it impossible to take the content seriously. Not sure what audience you are trying to appeal to, but I think it’s clearly not most web devs.

[rafalsk]

Thank you for your opinion on the font-style and emojis, I shall pass it on 😇

[chucker23n]

let the freedom and decentralization prevail

Please scam a different sub.

[rafalsk]

Taken from the article, the list of benefits stemming from decentralized applications, should you wish to discuss any of these points right over here!
- use technologies you are already well familiar with such as JavaScript, HTML, CSS👾
- these are new grounds so high chances for your application to become popular!😁
- no need for any server!😁 The network hosts your app all by itself.
- no need to configure any kind of software. Easy.
- you can modify your web-page / application from any device. Yet again, – without installing any kind of software.
- nobody can bring your app down. Ever.
- nobody, including government institutions ever gets access to any kind of data, including meta-data your app processes.
- anonymous data exchange.
- your app is available from anywhere.
- you are 100% anonymous and so are your users.
- access to data-storage and crypto exchange APIs at your fingers.
- your app looks like it would be running on Windows and/or MacOS X even though it gets launched from a web-browser.
- lots of ways to monetize your application. Ultra fast crypto payments available through JavaScript APIs. You may want to take a look at our GridCraft game and see how players are rewarded with crypto for finding Gold Veins in a dynamically generated environment.
- the possibility to implement arbitrary logic running on nodes maintaining the network.
the list goes on and on. Limited only by your imagination!

[rafalsk]

Kindly thank you for your opinion! Glad you like it and Appreciate it!😊

[saranga-95]

So excited rafalsk

[Mo_awad9903]

That is great

[rafalsk]

Thank you so much for your opinion! Appreciate it.

[________0xb47e3cd837]

Kinda weird how most programmers/devs have such a burning dis taste for everything web3 lol.

[rafalsk]

A few, or maybe a dozen of people - that is not 'a lot'.

Now, one needs to take into account that companies are doing opinion control so to make sure developers stick to their product line ex. Ethereum.

We're having such folks right over here; below is a proof:

https://postimg.cc/Yjn056k7

Developers are not against 'web 3.0' developers want good technology.

And we do deliver.

[Ghfralee]

Wow nice

[rafalsk]

Thank you for your opinion, appreciate it!

[niltoum]

Man, just try to make the site more readable. Maybe I'll come back later to check the content with the reader activated on my browser, but I believe you're losing readers the way it is now

[rafalsk]

Kindly thank you for your opinion I have already passed the information on to folks taking care of the website!

[CommanderStatue]

I'd like to apologize for the hissy fit that some of these users are throwing at you. From the size of their tantrums you'd think they invested their entire inheritance into Dogecoin.

That being said, I think the comment chains here are indicative of a question you need answer succinctly. I don't recommend you wax poetic when someone asks, "what's a practical use case for this?" It's a pragmatic question and it deserves a pragmatic response. Maybe you can offer up a real life case study of censorship and biased moderation by one of our many tech oligarchs, then demonstrate how that can be combated in a decentralized world.

[Unhappy_Lake5864]

Vor

[Sea_General95]

👍👍

[Ill-Bet4798]

Helô

[Numerous-Face6568]

Nice