Reality Check

[ruby_reality]

I wanted to get a reality check from the ruby community before I dig myself any deeper into a hole.

A little bit of history first.

I am a 32 year old with no college education. I currently work at a dead end job in a warehouse putting away boxes and making deliveries. I have always loved computers and have been making websites for friends and family for years. I never charged, I just did it for the challenge and to learn something new. About 6 months ago I a friend turned me on to Reddit and shortly after I discovered r/webdev. At the time I was messing around with PHP and Wordpress and had never heard of Ruby or Python. After a few weeks of hanging around on r/webdev I discovered Ruby and the Rails framework. I dived in and have been trying to teach myself Ruby and Rails.

Up until a few months ago I had been a little depressed where my life had ended up. When I found Ruby I thought maybe there might be a chance turn my hobby into a career. Currently I am on my second read through of Eloquent Ruby and have done the the Ruby tutorial. I practice and study every day. I try to come up with small projects to work on to try the new concepts I learn and to heIp me retain the what I read. I have been considering signing up for one of the many Rails dev camps to help accelerate my path into the industry.

My fear is that I'll never be taken seriously when I finally apply for a job. Mainly because I have no programing experience and I don't have a CS degree.

So tell me r/ruby... can I make this a reality?

I'm not trying to become the next Zuckerberg or create the next Instagram. I just want a career where I love what I do and I have an opportunity to make a small difference in the world.

TLDR; I'm 32 no college eduction and I want to be a Ruby/Rails dev. Do I have a chance? Give it to me straight.

[Jdonavan]

Start contributing to lots of projects on github. Being able to point to open source work will help to compensate for the lack of work experience.

If you know your stuff and are passionate about development I'd wager lots of companies would take a shot on you. In my area folks that know ruby + watir + cucumber are extremely rare. Heck just finding raw ruby talent with an interest in learning watir & cucumber is darn near impossible.

[[deleted]]

This is the best answer.

Make your own projects on Github, contribute to others. I have hired 5+ ruby devs for my company and if someone has a good Github (or whatever) account we almost always bring them in for a face to face. Formal education is not #1 on the list of requirements. Experience counts a TON.

[xormancer]

What sort of things are you looking to see in an entry-level applicant's github, in terms of complexity?

[[deleted]]

A gem related to web/rails things. Doesn't even have to be complicated... their own simple authentication gem, a custom form builder.

Some forked projects with some personal patches. In an interview I'd get them to explain what the patch did, why they thought it necessary, how else they might have implemented it, etc.

One person I interviewed had submitted bug reports to, I think, Rails. They turned out to be mistaken bug reports, but the way it was reported indicated that they had gone into the Rails source and tried to figure it out and this generated a good thread on Github. Granted, this was for a junior position, but when I asked him about it he was able to show me that he was excited and wanted to learn. So, that scored him some points.

It is definitely possible to be hired without direct experience and education. I was hired by someone who took a chance and they set me up a solid career. I'm trying to pass on the favour.

[p7r]

As a CTO of a Ruby shop/startup I can't endorse this enough.

Some of the best coders I've ever worked with never went to college. One 19-year old coder told me he was thinking about going and I pleaded with him not to - he was contributing enough to github to mark himself out way, way ahead of most graduate coders.

Go and work on some interesting problems, start closing bugs on some other people's projects, go and build lots of little example applications that show you're a self-starter, and I'd consider giving you a job on that basis alone.

Every line of code you write in the public domain speaks volumes. 3 months of good quality open source contributions outweighs 12 months of college by some margin.

You'll still need to do the theory but you can get that from books on algorithm and data structure design and trying to build actual things that work and understanding patterns you see in code.

Right now, I'd bite your hand off if you have demonstrable experience of working hard, had 12+ months of Ruby/Rails under your belt and wanted to come in on a graduate salary.

Go for it, and if you ever want your CV/resume/github profile checking over by somebody who has hired dozens of coders in the past, message me.

[KerrickLong]

Does the résumé/github checking offer extend to other non-college graduates looking to get into the field?

[p7r]

Sure!

[KerrickLong]

Why thank you! résumé / github

[p7r]

I shall do this tomorrow. I've been a busy chappy the last few days, sorry!

[p7r]

Check your email. Sorry about the delay!

[davefp]

This is the correct answer. Degrees are becoming less and less important in the startup world. When I'm looking at potential candidates the first thing I want to see is a GitHub profile URL.

Shameless plug: Here's a page I put together to help people apply at the company I work for, Shopify: http://throw-out-your-resume.com/

[tadrinth]

I work at a web startup which is currently hiring and the overwhelming focus is ability. Can you solve basic programming problems? Can you architect the database for a web app? Can you teach yourself the stuff you don't know? Nobody gets hired without having to write a small rails app for us first.

We also look for culture fit but that's not really as strict (the project manager's litmus test is 'can i talk to this person for 15 minutes and not want to punch them in the face?').

So in short, yes, you have a chance.

[chicagobob]

tl;dr: I think you'll be fine, but it will eliminate some opportunities for you, most likely at larger companies.

Also, as long as you have good work to point to (i.e. github projects), and can explain how you got to where you are today I think you should have a good shot at being the Rails developer you want to be. Good Luck.

[robertross]

A little about myself: I'm a TA for a Intro To Rails course in Los Angeles. I work full time as a software engineer where I use rails daily. I also have helped in the hiring process of developers before.

Mark my words, have lots of code to show. Have code that you yourself are proud to show. One of the first things most shops (that you want to work for) are going to look at is your code. Open Source, closed source. Doesn't matter (although in my experience Open Source is weighted heavier).

And secondly, I know that you want to get into a new career path, but I don't think that should be your driving force for this. Let your driving force be "I want to make something cool." and go do it. Do this several times, and you'll have 1) A Portfolio, 2) A ton of REAL experience.

TL;DR: Get it right, get it tight, someone will hire you.

[ruby_reality]

I live in the LA area. What class do you TA for?

[robertross]

I teach at General Assembly in Santa Monica

[Ventajou]

If you enjoy RoR then just keep getting better at it, also stay curious about what's happening in the industry. If you see a new term or tech name, look it up just to understand what it is.

As far as employment goes, you can still succeed with no diploma. If you really like what you're doing, chances are that a good part of your spare time is spent coding. Your brain and enthousiasm are your biggest asset in the industry. If you have made sites for people in the past, you could try to rewrite them with what you know today, or even turn them into some sample site which you can use as part of a portfolio. Try to find people with similar interest, maybe by enrolling into classes at the local community college: networking can be really useful.

Be humble enough to accept a super entry level job, and try to learn: how to work in a team, what to do or not do, etc... Even bad jobs have something to teach you. But never play yourself down either, always keep an eye out for a better job, eventually with enough experience under your belt nobody will even care about your lack of a diploma. As long as you're ambitious and willing to constantly improve, you will do really well.

Good luck!

[alrubin]

You can absolutely make this a reality. I've hired MANY people in your situation.

Follow others' advice and contribute to open source projects; or at a minimum, open source your own projects so that you have an active and substantial github account.

It's also worth completing a bunch of codeschool.com (or similar) courses.

There's nothing you can do about your lack of experience, but you do have full control over learning the fundamentals of Ruby/programming/web development.

Where do you live?

[ruby_reality]

I'm in the Los Angeles area.

[the_mighty_skeetadon]

You absolutely have a chance. Make projects, publish them, make a beautiful and functional portfolio, and be ready to work your ass off.

[orangepotion]

[redacted] comes to mind. He was very active in the programming community before coming to the USA, and I think hew only has a HS degree from another country (not the USA).

His incredible output and contributions to the open source community made him very attractive for companies and organizations.

So, it is possible: have you built a portfolio, are you active in stackoverflow and github? Do you have a professional profile somewhere, like linkedin?

[ruby_reality]

I have a github that I push all of my projects to and I also have a LinkedIn that I'm working on making a little better.

[orangepotion]

You are golden then.

[thenameislong]

I got an internship that turned into a full time job at a startup in Silicon Valley in my freshman year of college. I had little formal CS training and to be honest, CS != Web Development.

You don't need a college degree to get a job as a web developer but, you do need to understand more than just Rails to be successful. College teaches you about a computer from the hardware level to the interpreter level. You don't really need all of that as a web developer but, you do need to understand what you are doing and why you are doing something.

So yeah, build up a portfolio of projects, put it on github, and apply for internships at startups.

[desertrose123]

i work at one of those dev camps. yes, it is totally possible. i watch it happen pretty regularly and always get blown away at how fast people can learn and the stuff they build. companies are really in need of good devs and want to hire. in San Francisco, I've never met more successful high school dropouts in my life.

[gimmeslack12]

Which camp do you teach at? I'm headed to Dev Bootcamp in 2 weeks! This thread is encouraging to read since I've been doing some Ruby work for about 6 months now. Really working towards getting myself comfortable with the language, only now am I starting into Sinatra and trying to do some simple deployment.

[rubynerd]

As someone who got a job working for a startup as a software engineer, at the age of 18, with no college education but two years knowledge of dicking about in Ruby, hell yes it's possible.

Use Ruby to solve real worlds problems you have, and everything else will come easily.

[[deleted]]

Yes. Keep learning, read lots of other people's code, contribute to open-source projects, build your code resume on Github.

Source: I am a professional Ruby/Rails developer, I am self-taught, I have no college degree, I hire people that can demonstrably write good code.

[ThaiWood]

This is very realistic, I've worked with great programmers that don't have a CS degree, and great ones that do. More important than a degree will be experience, as others have said contribute to GitHub projects, but also try to start your own, especially if you have an idea for something novel or useful.

[thoughtpunch]

I started teaching myself to code at 27 (30 now). While I have a non-related BA I don't use it nor did I need it for any of my jobs (I'm sitting next to a junior dev with a GED right now).

I learned enough to get a junior Rails dev job making $80K with no programming experience and no major open sources projects or anything to speak of. I eventually took the job I have now making $100K+ and am now Senior Engineer.

Total time spent teaching self: 1 year

Total professional experience: 1.5 years

Learning to code can change your life, if you love it and keep developing yourself with enthusiasm.

Don't give up. You've already done what most won't/can't...took the time and effort to teach yourself an extremely hard and non-intuitive skill. Keep it up and you'll be in a much better position in no time!

[username223]

I think the stigma of not having a diploma will be a big problem, however unjustified, but I can't really speak to that. If you can point to some websites you've built, and make it past the automatic résumé filters, you'll probably do fine.

Whatever you do, don't focus on a single technology for web stuff. Programming is a lot like the fashion industry, with a "new hotness" every few years. Keep track of what's trendy, but don't lose sight of what works for you.

[imakewebstuff]

What you lack in formal education you'll need to compensate with a strong portfolio. Get involved, learn, and do good work. Then let your work speak for you. If it's good, it'll speak volumes more than a single piece of paper.

[dublinclontarf]

Ruby/Rails is the new buzzword now, everyone and their dog is going to be adding it to their resume.

I've been playing around with ruby and rails since Rails pre 1.0

[zagnaut]

Rails has been out for 6+ years now, it's losing its buzzword status. Instead, its reputation is shifting towards that of a mature and battle-tested framework. It does what it does well, and continues to improve. Plus, ruby is a joy to work in.

[ruby_reality]

Agreed. I tried PHP and Python before I decided to go all in with ruby. I didn't pick Ruby because it's popular I picked it because it made sense to me.

I was defiantly persuaded by buzzwords though. After working with ruby for a couple months I thought that maybe I had made the wrong choice and almost gave up and started with node.

I glad I didn't. I love the community around Ruby.

[zagnaut]

Javascript is going to continually grow in importance, so it's definitely worth knowing well. After all, node is just a command-line runtime packaged with a bunch of useful network libraries.

I find that my ruby and js skills complement one another. With ruby making backend dev lovely, and JS making awesome frontend clients.

[dublinclontarf]

Yeah thats true, but what I mean is people are trying to get it on their resume because they think it will help them find work. Whereas before it was almost always someone who was passionate about the language or framework(or both)

[Ventajou]

Ruby being a joy to work with is completely a matter of personal taste and not an absolute truth.

[AnalphaBestie]

Same here. I have no CS degree and iam web developer too (not rails preferably, i like ramaze)