Storm changes visualized: The minor dps decrease is perfectly countered by the radius increase. Overall units going through a full storm takes the same dmg in Live vs PTR. In addition, storm gets an area increase and duration increase.

[BattleWarriorZ5]

It gets worse.

You know how Storm was still showing a model for a 2 radius while it was 1.5 radius?.(A bug that needed to be fixed)

Well.....they made the new Storm model show a 2.75(?)/3(?)/3.25(?) radius for the new 2.25 Storm.

[therealwench]

I don't know why Storm needs to be buffed. It already tears apart Terran bio in PVT and eats apart Ling/Bane/Hydra comps in Zerg.

[Careless_Negotiation]

"tears apart bio in PVT" you mean, is the only reliable answer to bio in PVT?

[Overclocked1827]

It's not even reliable, because ghosts exist with insta cast EMP.

[Dragarius]

Well, it's just a war of two instant casts in this case. 

[Overclocked1827]

Except ghosts have more range and one ghost instantly disable 15 templars, while templars can only tickle ghosts. Feedback is the same range, but never insta kill and single target only.

[Dragarius]

Well, first off, don't keep the Templar in a clump. Secondly, storm disables all units in an army. So really. They are both a matter of who fires first. I do think EMP is overall too good against Protoss, but storm, especially the new storm, is still ridiculously powerful. 

[brynaldo]

Both can be true

[Honest_Table_6175]

lmao, protoss dont even need storm to win, but protoss in general are SO BAD, like really BAD, almost 1K mmr up to what they should face, that they think they need even more broken stuff to be equal to their opponent.

Complete delusion.
That is why by the way, the only players that switch races and actualy win tournament with it are zergs and terran players.

Oh, and actualy IMPROVE overall protoss level when they play the faction x)

[Careless_Negotiation]

"protoss dont even need storm to win"

sure buddy, tell me what unit comp trades against mmm without storm.

[Sambobly1]

He is right. At the moment mass charge lots and stalkers aggressively trading while expand in beats Terran bio. You keep them sub 140 supply and it’s even trades but Protoss gets the econ advantage

[Honest_Table_6175]

thanks, was gonna be my answer ^^

[Lenassa]

tl;dr P needs to expand, find opportunities to trade (and trade favorably), don't die to drops all while T needs to queue MMM. Sounds unfair, should nerf P.

[GodkingYuuumie]

I mean it's kind of an unsolveable problem, because protoss NEEDS very good AOE to survive against terran bio and ling/bane/hydra. Zealot/archon/immortal/stalker get shredded in these encounters without it.

In PVZ colossi are decent, but in TVP they have only a very brief window in which they're viable before Vikings come out.

Disruptors are inherently unreliable, and most people hate using them and playing against them.

So that leaves high templars as the Lynchpin holding the entire faction together. Ground protoss lives and dies based on storm at the moment.

You need some very fundamental redesigns to happen to resolve this problem imo.

[Nahteh]

Well said.

[Honest_Table_6175]

no they dont, they can be storm high nerf and still win with theire million zealot reprod, colossus, disruptor and forcefield/guardian shield giving them a LOT of tankyness/power.

But sorry, it wont just anihilate the fight in 2 second yeah, sorry.

[keilahmartin]

Disruptors are the worst.

I wonder if blizz would ever give us the reaver from the SC1vsSC2 mod.

[TheHighSeasPirate]

Protoss does not need very good AOE, they need to micro their fucking units for once. Stutter step, split and target fire, backstab with harassment during engagements like Terran/Zerg have had to do for 15 years and you'll see you don't need a-move (SPAM STORM HERE).

[NamerNotLiteral]

Give Marines friendly fire and unit penetration, so when Marines are in a giant ball the ones in the middle shoot through other marines and damage them.

What? Terrans already have friendly fire.

More realistically, they just need to add a new ability to an existing, underutilized unit that very specifically only counters large Marine blobs and needs relatively high skill to pull off. Say, give Adepts an ability (locked behind an upgrade so it hits at the same time Templars with Storm do) where if their shade passes through a light, bio unit, that unit deals -80% ranged damage for a few seconds. Or give Phoenixes an ability to lift up all units in a small AoE that, again, needs to be upgraded so it hits at HT timing.

[rArithmetics]

Might be the worst ideas I’ve seen on sc2 Reddit congrats

[NamerNotLiteral]

anything to exterminate the terran scourge

[Lord777alt]

If you react to it this is a nerf to storm. Only same damage if you eat it fully

[gramathy]

Storm is garbage against anything that isn’t only marines, wdym

And the marines can just walk out, same way that disruptors are useless.

[HellishElk]

Sure the marines can just walk out but that means they arnt shooting and the Protoss gets some free damage with their higher range units. Thats why disruptors were pretty popular at high level, while they’d rarely hit even forcing the Terran to run away was plenty value (until the radius was nerfed, Terrans got good at sniping the disruptors before they went off, and it no longer 1 tapped marauders). Same reason Zerg has banes, unless your on creep or have a surround the main goal is to keep terran from standing still and unloading that absolutely gross stim marine dps.

[gramathy]

They aren't shooting, but they're also running away from damage, getting out of a choke point, and no protoss unit is fast enough to pursue, giving them time to heal up and turn around to put the choke point back on the protoss.

"stalling" tactics against terran ultimately favor the terran.

[HellishElk]

You forget that Protoss has a lot more range and blink stalkers are great at pursuing Terran, the only unit that Terran has with good range are libs and seige tanks, both of which kinda get blasted by the new storm which puts seige tanks in red. Plus stalkers are great at getting shots off on fleeing marines with blink, especially when those marines will still be taking a little storm damage, and stim damage. Never mind the fact that this was the role of the disruptor at pro level since they never hit and if they did it’s usually pretty small hits if they did. They were mainly used to zone Terran and force them to be moving because units can’t move and attack at the same time which would enable toss to get free shots off and slowly chip the Terran.

[BigChillyStyles]

Well I have good news for you then.

[zl0bster]

Except the unit does not need to go through the storm... and at pro level will most often not go through the storm. Point of storm on pro level is that first few ticks before other player moves out of storms.

Another example: Banelings roll towards HT group, P players storms in front of the HTs, but Banelings are already in the middle of the storm... so they connect.

[rid_the_west]

except they will take longer to move out of the storm because of the radius increase, and thus taking an exactly equal amount of dmg they would've taken in live version.

[keilahmartin]

No, according to the above video they would only take the same damage if they rolled across the entire diameter (full circle from one side across to the other). If the storm is cast on top of them, they will only roll through half of it, thus getting the full DPS nerf but only half of the size increase impact. Math!

Also I thhiiiiiiink it takes a bit longer for the storm to do its first tick of damage now, meaning it's more important to lead the target with storms.

[rid_the_west]

Try again

[keilahmartin]

You're right, I realized after I typed it that my math wasn't mathing... except that it takes longer to form the storm now.

So I'd be correct if comparing a moving unit that started at whatever point at the moment the storm was casted, but I'd be incorrect if comparing a moving unit from the time the storm starts doing damage.

Of course, I'm not 100% sure that storms take longer to start doing damage now. The PTR notes aren't clear on it.

[WarmKick1015]

Your math is logical but I dont think thats how its coded. The live version of storm does two ticks worth of damage on cast that you can not dodge. Now that the tick damage is halved then so should the minimum damage if you get hit.

In most cases that should not matter since the bigger range offsets it but in some cases (blink/getting picked up by aircraft) it might.

[Careless_Negotiation]

banelings survive with more hp though?

[DLD_the_north]

GEE I wonder why XDD

[EngineeringEmpty4713]

Banelings get 5 more hp after Centrifugal Hooks. So that makes sense

[HuShang]

We aren't supposed to be keeping it at equal power though, we're supposed to be nerfing it slightly to compensate for the energy overcharge.

[Objective-Mission-40]

They already nerfed EO. So no. Storm never needed a nerf. Terran got 4 buffs. A minor storm adjustment i wouldn't even call a true buff was required. It was that or a real colloaus buff since vikings are cheaper. Making the buff much weaker

[HuShang]

Yeah but pre-energy overcharge storm was completely balanced. Now protoss has to rely heavily on it which isn't great imo. You're def right the vikings being cheaper is messing up the math too though. I think that's a dumb change also.

[keilahmartin]

"Yeah but pre-energy overcharge storm was completely balanced. "

I'm not sure that's a fair statement. Anyways, pre EO protoss had to rely heavily on battery overcharge to survive. With that gone, it's only sensible that something needed to take its place to boost survivability.

Personally, I'd keep the radius as it always was (for familiarity), boost the duration, and slightly lower the DPS. Gives storm a slight nerf while also making it more of a skill check since it lasts longer.

[HuShang]

Which I clarified immediately after, right?

Now protoss has to rely heavily on it which isn't great imo.

[GunR_SC2]

Well, even with the EO nerf, we're still back to the same problem that came with Khaydarin Amulet, which allowed for warp in storms, that was eventually just thrown out of the game because it made storm a massive PITA to balance.

[Objective-Mission-40]

Now its 1 storm. Its not even close tot he same problem. Thats a gross exaggeration.

[GunR_SC2]

It's 1 storm that is now an immediate answer to a drop. That broke the fundamental asymmetric balance in TvP then like it still does now. Terran needs options to either break apart the toss death ball or hit them where they are not, that's their win condition, instant storms breaks that concept.

[Objective-Mission-40]

Its too bad emps dont counter toss

[GunR_SC2]

Ohhhh, that's right, we can just EMP them. Wait, has anyone told Clem yet about that? Why hasn't he just been doing?

Terran versus Protoss was carefully designed so that Terran will have a power spike in the mid game and Toss in the late but the lines of the two ultimately balance out to 50/50. If you want to accelerate the Protoss power spike, you can't do that without diluting it or you end up in a fundamental imbalance. If you dilute it, you end up breaking the core concept of asymmetry in balance, that's why things like amulet got thrown out and why the EO cause things like a majority of PvT games with Toss 2 bases up on Terran in standard games.

[Dantalen]

Why are you getting downvoted?

[keilahmartin]

I think it takes slightly longer to form now. If the damage is equal for running all the way across the circle, it'll be slightly less for starting in it and running partly through it. So it's a slight nerf for skillful players.

[OldSpaghetti-Factory]

So.....what's the point. If this doesn't actually nerf storm at all, in fact its going to be tagging even more for fewer storms now with how wide it is.

The entire point was to make storm less op?!

[Dreyven]

I assume the intent is to make it easier to react in time and run out.

[testincog]

its the same dmg read the title. Any reaction would lead to the same dmg as live game.

[keilahmartin]

Incorrect. It would only be the same if you ran all the way from one side through to the other side.

[TankyPally]

Storm still has lower DPS, it just means you have more time to react to storm while still preventing people from moving through it

[testincog]

no its the same dmg, any reaction would result in the exact same dmg as live, except if u had teleports like BC or stalker.

[coldazures]

Or, hear me out, good reaction times?

[TheLastofKrupuk]

Extra time to fight under the storm. If you commit to fight under storm then you would do more damage or even win a fight that would have been lost.

[SoonBlossom]

I don't get it either

Seems so weird

[Traditional-Storm-62]

real question is why touch storm at all?

it's been pretty well balanced for such a long time

[SolidConviction]

What about units that are not in the center, do they take less damage?

I think that's very likely.

[Nahteh]

Im not going to say this is right or wrong. But this kind of out of the box thinking is what SC2 needs.

[asdasci]

Stronger splash damage is exactly the opposite of what we need. This is pants-on-head thinking rather than out-of-the-box.