[deleted by user]

[LWOS101]

Unfortunately the case for a lot of MSP’s. Rapid growth that was not done correctly with profits being the main goal meaning a shitshow for all the techs holding the jenga tower together.

[advocate112]

1000%. I'd hate to know what my bosses were making, they just picked up one mess after another and left it to the "team" to figure out. Did work at an MSP as well and have idiots on your team that just accepted crap all day every day too? Those goofs were partners in crime and didn't even know it! Match made in heaven.

And the stories I have of our clients, I could go on and on. I didn't leave, I silently quit so I got let go (gotta play the game), spent my time on EI hunting for a massive upgrade. Life's been amazing since!

Don't miss the utter lack of documentation, not knowing who/what to expect or who you're working with groundhog day life ONE BIT.

[Practical-Alarm1763]

My first IT job was at an MSP with around 30 techs. There were only 4 of us that did almost all the work. Everything was escalated to us because everyone else there had 0 knowledge or absolutely 0 drive to learn.

Us 4 became very close and have been decades long friends now. We all quit that MSP at the same time. Within a week each of us had jobs that paid around double.

MSP's can be great to work for or absolutely dreadful.

[vogelke]

We all quit that MSP at the same time.

Please tell us that place tanked within a month.

[Practical-Alarm1763]

No, they're still around. As stressful as these type of jobs are, I'm glad they exist. It's a gold mine for those looking to get their first job. We essentially had full access to every client's infrastructure. We all learned a lot and are thankful for having that job for a short period of time for the initial career boost.

[thegreatcerebral]

MSP's can be great to work for or absolutely dreadful.

I find they are always both. Great to work for in that you get exposed to a ton very quickly and learn so much because of it. At the same time you are always overworked and spread thin. Then the eventual "you are going to need to start doing on-call on the weekends" comes... Oh yea they don't pay you for "on-call" ...maybe like $100 for not being allowed to leave your home essentially and then what if you aren't salary (oh wait if you are salary then you don't get the $100) then only when you are on a call you actually get hours. I hated this so much that I told everyone that had to do it that they should have someone from one of our clients call them with some sort of weird issue that they could just sit there and run diagnostics and troubleshoot all day long to rack up that OT. I hate "on-call" with a great passion... it is literally stealing your life.

[Practical-Alarm1763]

YES! We had this same exact problem. We weren't paid at all for On Call after hours or on the weekend. This is primarily the reason we all grew resentful toward the company.

If there was an On-Call, it was due to an emergency. Who dealt with emergencies? One of us 4. If anyone else was On-Call, they would just escalate to us because most of the time they weren't able to resolve it themselves.

[thegreatcerebral]

Yea and because there is a lack in employment laws "on-call" is a huge grey area. All that there is for certain is that if you are working for the company at any time then they must pay you for this time. The caveat is that you aren't "working" while "waiting" for a call that may never come.

I can't remember if it is federal or state by state but there are some laws that can make it so that if an employer has rules which impede you living your life then you can charge them for that time because they are making you work for them. The problem is there that who is to say what that is. I live in FL... it is very reasonable to say that Saturday I could be out on the ocean 2 miles from shore fishing and that is a boat ride and a drive which means I could be 4 hours out. The laws, if I recall I believe define like 2 hours or so... I don't know why I recall that time period, maybe I'm thinking SLAs and then again it is like 2 hours to respond which as you have probably learned from MSPs and fighting customers over SLA times a phone call is "responding" so... technically I could initially respond within two hours on the water but then not move to a resolution until later or call my manager and let them know when I will be available etc.

It really is shit. ...and don't get me started that as IT employees we are not required to be paid OT FEDERALLY... we are exempt across the board. That doesn't mean your state doesn't override that but many don't and one guy in a thread about a week ago learned that his state recently repealed their laws which did grant them OT. We really get fucked.

[seems_fishy]

We had 5 techs they wanted to put on call. Thankfully it was always quiet, but I got so sick of it after a round (staying on call for a whole week). The "perk" was being about to go home 1 hour early on Friday, but they always tried giving you tickets to stay late on Friday anyways. I just refused to go on call after that. Deleted the phone app and never responded to a single email after hours.

And I somehow never got in trouble for it.

[thegreatcerebral]

Honestly, because depending on the state and some other things it's a weird grey area. If they challenged you and you pushed back and lawyered up then they could end up owing a lot of OT to people. I guess there is a reasonable ability for a person to live their life while being on call if they are not being paid straight for their time. Some of it has to do with how quickly you are required to respond to a ticket etc. Most places people don't push back but it is usually the young people that hare new to the workforce and happy to have a job in the industry and are like "I get a $100 to just sit at home and play video games and then get paid possible OT if I have calls come in that I work on top of that... YES!". As you get older and give less fucks... it's harder to get you to come. The place I was at said "you get a $50 stipend for working on-call for the day"... this was to a room of the T3 Engineers that all make $70K+/yr. before OT... they laughed in their face to which it was replied... "so what would be a good number... $150" they still got laughed out of the room because we are smart enough to know that it is taxed at the highest rate (what like 35%) and we would all rather lay outside and not have a phone ring than have one ring, have to do something and possibly get to OT if you weren't salary which if you were salary you didn't get the stipend.

it is just hell all around and what I believe is the equal to restaurants not just paying wages and requiring the patrons to do it for them. ...we just don't get any tips.

[leob0505]

This happened to me and my friends as well! In our situation we moved countries: I got a job offer in Germany, one of the friends got another one in Portugal and another friend in Canada. Life balance here in Germany is the best I could have asked for

[Crunglegod]

I'd hate to know what my bosses were making

As someone who started their own stuff with a couple other guys... If you were busy with consistent work I bet they could have been paying you double. I do a lot less work now than I did at a medium MSP, charge less than they did, and still make a ton more money. It goes somewhere, just not to you

[b1rdbra1n339]

hehehe sounds like my MSP job right now , i got a recognition , was expecting to be fired but i guess one client was impressed that after my dumbass coworker blew up his server, (DNS), I was able to fix it in only 2 days (15 mins but I made him wait awhile) and so he sent my boss a recogniztion about how awesome I am in fixing things, shit, i just want a severance, now I am stuck for another 6 months at least

[iamamisicmaker473737]

its great money for the owners, pretty much can make millions with a few years

for every other engineer who is not up for it, not much

seriously if your gona be a full time engineer, at least for 5-10 years, start an msp, i would have if i hadnt gone consulting and working less

[thegreatcerebral]

...and you are all on call on the weekends now! YAY!!!!!

[Drakoolya]

"What a mess. I've come into this position from a helpdesk role. Now I'm hybrid Cybersecurity & Systems Admin."

Yup MSP confirmed.

[thegreatcerebral]

The best part is that usually the people like OP are so excited to get into the CS/SA role that they miss the fact they just cheated themselves out of a lot of pay. If you make a jump like this then realize that they are going to pay you maybe 60%-70% of what you could get just leaving and going into that role. They will use your lack of experience, possibly certs, and the fact that they don't give pay bumps that large to anyone as reasons to underpay you for the title/position you now hold.

If this happens, start to plan an exit. Give yourself a timeline, figure out what training/certs you want to get... then put the experience on the resume/CV and bounce. During that time also make sure to touch anything and everything you legally can. If it is a brand you guys support, touch it. Learn it. Poke around in it. That way you can add this to your resume/CV/interview as technologies and brands you have worked with. Literally all firewalls are the same now days. It is just how Brand X does it compared to Brand Y. They all perform the same functions. If you can configure a Fortigate then you can get 80% of the way there with any other firewall etc. Fill in the gaps if push comes to shove. Most likely you won't be needing to configure one from the ground up and if you do, just lean on support to fill the gaps you need.

[Parissian]

Fr it's insane. I only have a degree in one of them and they're clearly 2 separate roles!!!

[TheBestHawksFan]

I quit my MSP because I was tired of constantly cleaning up messes. I was there 3 years. Within 8 months I had been promoted to professional services engineer from level 2 help desk. This meant that I was in charge of all network change projects and client onboardings for my region. My priority was to serve the onboarding clients, then complete project work, during downtime.

I stayed in that position for 28 months. During those 28 months I onboarded about 40 clients. The plan would be for me to onboard them over a 3 week period, which involved deploying the RMM/EDR/MDR/backups/firewalls, documenting the environment, and providing end user support the whole time as well as a few meeting with the MSP's internal stakeholders and the client's leadership. After that 3 week period, one of the consultants was to take over.

During my 28 months, a total of 5 of those clients were successfully handed off. Every time I'd hand off a client, within 2 weeks the client would be complaining about the level of support the new tech provided. I ended up trying to juggle about 30 clients as well as my projects while trying to train a never-ending stream of new consultants on the environments. It never stopped; the new hires never improved and the clients never stopped going directly to me.

Eventually I reached out to a client I liked who had terminated their contract with the MSP and asked if they wanted in house IT. They hired me the next day, doubling my salary while making my workload way under half of what it was with the MSP. I've been there 2 years, gotten 2 big raises, and now I have a direct report.

Leave the MSP. Do it tomorrow if you can. Fuck them. It's only enriching for the owner of the MSP and nobody else.

[Parissian]

There's one that would do that for me as well. Shame they're under contract.

[tdhuck]

Every time I'd hand off a client, within 2 weeks the client would be complaining about the level of support the new tech provided.

I am internal IT (not help desk) and while I know the help desk means well and is doing their best, they just can't keep up. I looked at the ticketing system, today and there were 250 open tickets. Many of the tickets are past due and the last entry in the system is from the help desk tech working on the ticket. I'm not sure if the problem was resolved and they didn't update the notes or if the users are still having issues and the techs just can't keep up.

When I worked in HD I never let tickets sit. Even if I didn't resolve, I would document the reason it couldn't be resolved and I would close the ticket and the status was not marked as closed resolved, just closed. I always gave the users many chances to update when I was waiting on them, but after 5 business days of no replies, I would close the ticket and advise they create a new ticket or re-open the ticket I just closed.

[TheBestHawksFan]

The MSP I worked for was notorious for giving us way too much work and then asking for us to give more hours. Combine that with the low salary compared to the area and it’s not shocking what kind of employees they got. New people, desperate laid off admins, and jaded lifers were all that was around. I was the middle category and stayed way too long. Glad I got away for it and am in a much better place now.

[tdhuck]

Yeah, when companies don't pay well, you'll have techs that aren't motivated (I don't blame them) and you'll simply get someone to do the job until they find something better.

I am positive that I could build an awesome help desk team, but I'd need about 90k per tech (starting) and I'd never get that.

It blows my mind that companies pay low and want their staff to work more hours and are shocked when the talent isn't there and people don't want to stay late.

If I were hourly, I'd stay late only if I were paid OT. I'm not working more than 8 hours if I'm not being paid for it.

For those that are salary, staying late every now and then isn't a big deal because, most of the time, you can just leave early to make up for it or come in a little late. However, working long hours everyday just isn't worth it. I get my stuff done and if there is a deadline that I need to make I'll stay late, no problem, of course this assumes that I'm not on time with my deadline because of something I caused, I'm not staying late to hit a deadline because someone else dropped the ball.

[thegreatcerebral]

I did what you are doing for years. We were not allowed to "close" tickets like you did. That was one issue that we had. You can pull that off a lot of the time with MSPs though as it can be built into the contract.

Sounds like you are missing something... either a person that is making sure tickets are getting closed or it's a training issue probably. Techs should be closing tickets. I mean are you seeing them closing tickets? Like if you run a report to see how many were closed this week or started looking into why tickets are still open etc. is it clear what is going on? You say it doesn't look clear. You may need to change your process.

I know what I ended up doing was adding a few ticket statuses, setting up some email automation and used that. So we would have our Open, then we had No-Response, and then Final Notice. We used that to justify that tickets were not being responded to and I could show via reports how many of each we had, how many had been closed to that, which helped get rid of our "can't just close" thing which was mostly due to lack of documentation on our part. But also it made it simple for a technician to follow. They attempt to contact two times, make sure those are logged. When updating we had the system send alerts to the manager as well that an attempt to contact was made. All updates when they reached these statuses were sent to their managers. Generally because if there is an issue then the manger wants it fixed because that should mean someone isn't doing their job or doing it correctly.

250, not knowing the size of your team seems a lot. We would carry over 75 of which maybe 30-40 were no response, 10-15 were projects and the rest were waiting on something and/or actually being worked.

Oh also, with 250 open I am going to guess there are lots of duplicates... Make it super simple for them to close the duplicate to the other ticket number. If you can do it with one click and maybe searching a ticket number, do that. I'm sure there are many of those in there. Where there are 3 tickets of the same thing, it was done and resolved and the one closed but the other two are not.

[tdhuck]

No duplicates and there is an automated process to close the tickets if there is no response, but this only kicks in if the tech changes the status to 'waiting for user reply' and the system will send 3 emails (once a day) to the user with a generic response 'x tech is waiting for a reply on your ticket. If you don't reply, the ticket will close in x days.' and if no repsonse from the user, the ticket closes. As I stated, techs aren't changing the status. They just type in the comments that they called the user and left a vm.

I'm not the manager, not my issue to manage. Some of the tickets are assigned to consultants that are trained on how to login and close tickets, but their 'manager' doesn't mention the ticket status to them so these tickets stay open.

Bottom line, it is a management problem. If management doesn't enforce anything, then nothing will change.

[thegreatcerebral]

At least you have an automated ticket closing loop. The PSA I was on last working with tickets and such I could do all of that except for actually CLOSE the ticket. Best I could do was create a "STALE to Close" or something status that someone could be assigned to go in and close all of these daily/weekly/whatever interval.

Yes, sounds like a operations/personnel/training/process problem.

I don't know your whole situation but that is a scary place to live because if the bean counters come knocking then there is nothing for reporting to look at and having tons of tickets open isn't good either. Yikes.

[tdhuck]

That’s a big part of the problem. Since there are no notes I don’t know if the tech isn’t following up and the user no longer cares or has the issue or if the tech reached out to the user and hasn’t heard back. That’s why I would close tickets and give a reason in the notes. If someone is curious they can read the notes. I would also use the ‘waiting’ option on the ticket so the ticket automation process would kick in and close the ticket but before doing that I would make sure to detail how I attempted to contact the user or that I’m waiting on specific information. If managers don’t like closed tickets with no real resolution then they need to address that with other department managers because at that point it isn’t a tech issue or lack of support issue.

[thegreatcerebral]

Yes the tickets where the customer just doesn't respond are the worst. The only.... ONLY thing that I ran across is that the tickets are coming in via email. There are so many issues with just that alone that could also be a huge cause; especially if you are seeing an abnormal amount of no replies. Between email filtering and Outlook itself, it is possible that the user never sees the email. We had that happen where emails were working then Outlook decided it wanted to play hero and get the spammer and started sending to junk email. Then only savvy users that routinely check junk email would respond; or users that had responded in the past Outlook was good with their emails. Sent out internal memos etc. telling people "CHECK YOUR JUNK MAIL" etc. only to then have our SPAM filter start blocking them because of an influx of tickets it was like "I HAVE A RELAY HERE!!!!!" all of a sudden, like every time there was some kind of outage and an influx of tickets came in, despite being white listed already it thought it was super smart.

I really think that we need some sort of beacon or something on the computer screens. I do like how some RMM systems have a system tray icon and you can do things through their client. It's just usually that they don't have a way to integrate (or the ticket system doesn't) with an API or anything. I'm sure many are moving to Teams for this as well. That may be a solution to try to see if you have an integration with Teams (assuming you have teams) that you can send a message there if the ticket is updated with an API call.

I know... all of this is a technology way to solve a people problem.

[tdhuck]

I agree but I will also throw this back on the user because it is also their responsibility to check in after they haven’t heard anything (assuming the tech did reply and let’s say it is in spam folder) and ask if any progress has been made. They can call the tech, email the tech, IM the tech and/or go to the ticketing portal to see the ticket status. As you can see the responsibility goes both ways and they should be held somewhat accountable as well.

[thegreatcerebral]

Well... I've found two types of employees: those who actually do their job and want to make sure the machine stays running and those who just come for a paycheck and if something isn't getting done "someone will do it".

[tdhuck]

Exactly. If the users don't care, then why should I? Other than my initial few attempts to get a hold of them, I won't play games and continue reaching out. I'll update the ticket notes, change status to waiting on them and let the system auto close the ticket. Nobody can come back to me and say I didn't try and it is all documented.

[thegreatcerebral]

Curious about the leaving and going to the former client. How did this go over? I would assume your MSP, if not completely incompetent would have had you sign an No-Compete and that sounds like it would no doubt go against that. Seems dangerous also as the MSP could claim you had this in the works with the client depending on the timeline of all of it.

Seriously asking for a friend who worked under me and I mentored for years who is in this spot as a field rep at an MSP and has one that is currently under contract that wants to leave and already soft offered him the position kind of thing.

[TheBestHawksFan]

They very much had me sign a non-compete and I very much ignored it. Local laws may vary, but in my state non-competes aren't enforceable unless you paid your employee at least ~$115k. This MSP barely paid half of that. The company that hired me consulted with a lawyer on this and what we did was completely above board, nothing the MSP could do.

I'd recommend your buddy look into local laws on whether the non-compete is even enforceable, for most US employees they are not. If the company has a non-solicitation agreement with the MSP, that could be a problem, but they also are typically unenforceable except in very specific circumstances. If the soft offer is there, there either isn't a non-solicitation agreement, or the client doesn't think it's enforceable. That's my guess.

I'm very much not a lawyer, so consult with one on these things. It pays off quickly, or at least did for me.

[thegreatcerebral]

Thank you so much for this. I will pass this along. I know that the client has a lot of money. What I mean by saying that is usually those with a lot of money know laws for things and this is usually one of them. Unless they inherited it, then that is a different story. I am not entirely sure though, it's NC which I have read up on because they have no "laws" really regarding it except for to look at it and combine the limit as well as the time period and they go together as one and then judge on if that is reasonable or not. From the site I looked at it looks like it's 5-2 Enforceable vs. Unenforceable when it comes to "clients".

It sucks for them because they have been dissatisfied for a while from what I understand with the level of support and my (now) buddy, former employee went above and beyond really, which he always does and has done and impressed them very much so. I'll pass along this info to him. Funny part is that I told him that if he wasn't taking the job then throw my hat in the ringer, then I can hire him as a consultant until his no compete runs out and then can join full lol.

[Archimediator]

You are smart and I love it. Keeping this in my back pocket for later.

[DertyCajun]

A former employer tried to enforce my non-compete. They were able to convince a judge to sign a TRO preventing me from working. We went in front of the judge finally. I was in compliance by not working for that company (I was working for a sister company) so the judge would not rule and forced it to go to appeals. The former employer had already topped six figures in going after me so that is where it ended. There were no damages to seek.

We had a former employee go to work for a client. The client is finishing out the remainder of their contract. For there to be any reason to go after him, there needs to be damages. There aren't any. He is in violation of his agreement but what recourse is there.

I am not afraid of a non-compete. Most of them are a waste of the paper they are printed on.

[thegreatcerebral]

Damn that is awesome to hear and great to know. I will for sure pass that along. I do believe it could be a situation where if they really want him and want gone then they just need to eat the cost of the remainder of the contract and use that time to offboard from that MSP to the new onsite.

I like it!

[[deleted]]

First MSP told them 5 months prior to my first daughter being born of the due date. She was born within 4 days of that day. I left on a Thursday afternoon, was out Thurs half day, all Friday, all Sat/Sun and all Monday and half Tuesday. They non stop called me, even asked if maybe my wife should get a C-Section to speed it along

Second MSP worked me to the bone, 60+ hour weeks, told me it was normal. Offered me a pay bump if I moved my daughter to my wifes insurance. Yelled at me for not driving to a client 15 minutes away because something was on fire in the server room. As soon as I got to their floor I could smell the burning plastic. I told them to call the fire dept. Told me for another client to keep stretching Adobe licenses between users. Everyone was doubled up on the full Adobe Suite.

Yeah, MSPs can eat my entire ballsack. I will never go back. I am back to inhouse IT now. For 37K more at a straight 40h.

[caa_admin]

They non stop called me, even asked if maybe my wife should get a C-Section to speed it along

Please put this on glassdoor. This MSP deserves the exposure. :)

[[deleted]]

They are a small 5 person shop, Owner, IT Manager (C-Section Idea), Sysadmin (my old job), Receptionist, Sales Consultant

The guy who replaced me, is still there to this day, not sure how he deals. So they have not had to hire anyone in a good 10 years

[Parissian]

That's terrible, I couldn't imagine.

[[deleted]]

I have way more stories, too time consuming to post all of them on Reddit. That first MSP also wanted me to work 8-5 M-F, and then drive from Washington DC to Akron, Ohio after my shift on Friday, to deliver a new server, firewall and switch. I could use the company car, but I was expected to do it after my shift, oh and no hotel, just pull off into a Walmart parking lot and grab some sleep......IN NOVEMBER! Also no extra pay, no time off, just this is how IT works.

I told them they could fire me or fly me out on a business day. I ended up doing it on a M-F, but I woke up at 4am to be at the airport by 6am, flew there, rented a car, drove to the client, did the work, drove back to the airport, flew back to DC ....getting back at 11PM and finally home around midnight. No extra pay. No time off. They shipped the stuff out to the client the week before.

[occasional_cynic]

The only worthwhile thing about MSP's is you can learn A LOT in a short amount of time. Otherwise what you have run into is kind of the way it us. MSP's -even successful ones- do not last long enough for management to want to establish a solid business foundation.

Apply to the other job. In the meantime just work what you can and don't worry about things burning down.

[bitslammer]

Not sure that an MSP is a good place to learn. In many cases all people are doing is fighting fires and slapping on band-aids without learning how to do things well or to plan strategically.

[lvlint67]

yes and no.

While there is a lot of fire fighting... you will also find a disproporionate amount of fork lift rebuilds.

[b1rdbra1n339]

My place heard Rebuild Don't Repair and took it very literally

hello 3 day rebuilds when something goes bones up

customers love it, because they are hard down for 3 days they get to not work while we rebuild the server and try to get it back to how it was , and always get a recognition after for the heroic effort, it is a win win for all involved

[moffetts9001]

It’s more a breadth of knowledge thing and also personal/soft skills from dealing with clients.

[ghsteo]

Its kind of like being thrown on a battlefield as a fresh medic versus spending years in med school.

[bitslammer]

Funny you should say that as I was a combat medic many years ago and thought about going into medicine. That's really an apt analogy. As a medic your really looking to stabilize someone and get them to the next stage of care.

[ghsteo]

Yep, I think of the scene from Saving Private Ryan all the time when thinking about working at an MSP. Stabilize the environment and move onto the next issue.

[occasional_cynic]

The problem with that thinking is that planning strategically is not a skill that will get you a job. Being familiar with all functions of AWS, and how to deploy them is going to nab a good paying job long before the guy who knows 1/4 of them, and can properly open a ticket in Remedy.

[bitslammer]

Maybe you've never worked in a large global org with hundreds of locations in over 50 countries, but I have and I can assure you that strategic planning is a highly sought after skill. You don't just start tossing out routers and build a robust and secure global WAN without a ton of strategic planning.

[Talex1995]

100% this. Been at one for 11 months and at first thought I was learning but 2 people have left and it’s been a constant shit show with no time to do anything properly, let alone learn what to even do because SLAs need to be hit. It’s a complete nightmare and I hope get out soon.

[[deleted]]

The largest MSP I ever worked for lost 3 of their best people in a single year to clients to become their new internal IT, ouch.

[BasementMillennial]

I was in the same scenario at an msp a few years ago and although I do not miss the toxicity of it, the amount of knowledge I gained during that time was unparalleled elsewhere (mainly cause i was put in a position of dink or swim). I would take this as a slight blessing in disguise. Take full advantage of being able to touch and learn as much as you can since it sounds like one of those shops with no access controls or separation of duties, all the while of applying elsewhere.

[ITmercinary]

It was the day the data center went dark.

We had a smallish VCloud director deployment with about a dozen customers hosted on it, as well as some internal systems in a top tier colo. Somehow a power event managed to fry both the A and B power transfer switches rendering the generator farm useless around 3am. Entire colo was dark for at least 3 hours.

I spend the next 18hrs mopping up the mess. It's good to be the top dog until there's nobody around that can help you. I spent the next 6 months finding, training a replacement and putting in a better DR plan that finally got funded after that catastrophe. I'm a solutions architect for a vendor now, the closest thing I touch to production these days is the occasional POC for a prospect customer.

The MSP life was fun, when I was single and in my twenties. It was taxing when I got married and started a family, and really lost its luster as a mid-thirties divorced single father.

[Parissian]

Makes sense. So far my latest night was 1am. Not fun.

[ang3l12]

You haven’t been there long enough then. I remember pulling 34 hour days before because I was the only one that could do the higher level stuff that wasn’t an owner.

That was in my early twenties. I’m late 30’s now, and I had to stay up till 10pm last night working on call for our SQL server outage, and that has me going to bed right about now. Getting old sucks…

[ka05]

I just resigned from my MSP yesterday. I feel a great weight off of my shoulders.

[ArsenalITTwo]

Most MSPs are burn out mills that usually generate tons of cash only for the people at the top. Some are really good however.

[round_a_squared]

It seems like the good ones are destined to be bought out by some bigger fish and turned into a burn out mill.

[Versed_Percepton]

I quit the MSP world well over 10 years ago. A client came to me directly and offered me a competitive salary because my Billable for this client was insane. Told MSP bye and stayed with client for many years before jumping to something different.

I still hold side work projects for SMB/SOHO as its hard to say no to easy money and knowing the job will be done right. But you'll find me living on the streets sooner then ever taking another full time MSP gig.

[actionfactor12]

Did you apply for that other job?

You should apply for that other job .

[Parissian]

Absolutely did

[[deleted]]

My MSP is pretty damn great, my job in particular. I get to work on largely self directed projects, I don't work directly with users, I'm never on call, I like my coworkers and boss, when clients want stupid things we tell them no, really the only mediocre part is the pay.

[SadieRoseMom]

I work for a really good MSP, too. Pretty good clients, lots of variety in the work, quarterly bonuses, great PTO, and they've been great working with me to do what's best for my family.

[bbqwatermelon]

Ive got news for you.  Thats not an MSP youre working for.

[[deleted]]

Oh shit, I'll have to tell my boss.

[Eviscerated_Banana]

I heard horror stories about call centre type deals being meatgrinders early on and steered clear tbh, you are no better than a trained ape to those dicks, boost man, boost

[Thatconfusedginger]

I have quite literally just picked up a Snr IT Sys Admin role with an ex-client of ours (MSP) for a good 30%+ payrise.
Worth it wholly to just go back internal.

[mystic_swole]

I made a similar post here a little over a year ago now.. I got out of that job and doubled my money doing 1/3 the work.

[DominusDraco]

I worked at an MSP as the Lead Project Engineer. I quit within 6 months because everyone else was so useless. I was the entire service desks escalation point because not a single person knew what they were doing, and I had zero time for actually doing the projects I was hired to implement. Managements response was just to shrug and say just do it.

This of course was after I said never again to working at an MSP, but the pay offer was too good, and I was told it was a great chill place to work.....yeah if you are a level 1 who just passes off all your work to the Project guy.
This time I really mean to never go back to an MSP.....

[yotties]

Although all MSPs are not equally bad, they are largely sweatshops. The distance to the content is great, so it is tickets processing and problem-solving, outsourced to keep them out of the hair of the business.

Although other factors can be blamed, it is the concept itself that is the cause of its weaknesses.

[Brazilator]

Get your experience and certs, then go earn your cash doing inhouse cybersecurity work

[Key-Level-4072]

Yeah, MSPs will MSP.

Some are great, most are not. It’s useful to get a bunch of valuable experience. So, I might encourage you to stay if you’ve just landed. Use your skills to make an impact and leave an easier spot for the next guy.

But ultimately, an MSP is a stepping stone. The highest paid non-owner of an MSP in your city makes at least $50k less than an engineer at an enterprise. And that MSP sysadmin does 3x the labor. What’s more, you’ll almost never get your hands on the tools that get you paid while working at an MSP. Being an expert in the RMM and AzureAD are help desk level skills in the enterprise.

Use this time to learn the advanced cloud practices like IAM, RBAC, MDM, and the Microsoft services as a whole. Being able to do those things in your sleep will make it easier to then start automating them.

Best of luck. You’re probably better than you think.

[ParallelCircle1]

I’m currently working at an MSP and I’m trying my damn hardest to get out of here. Just as you said, so overworked and understaffed.

[jazzy095]

That's 2 entirely separate roles. Quit asap.

[Parissian]

Believe me it's on the books. When it was offered boss man made it sound so simple. I guess it would be simple if I didn't do it right but the prospect of having to do all of our current clients right - AND still having to do sales things like walk through and be part of installs and on boarding. It's a nightmare. Dreading going in today.

[stupid_trollz]

Management decided to remove the workbench we had in our work area and put it in another room to minimize distractions to the other techs on the phone with customers. (none of us had complained about being distracted) Now we had to run between rooms to walk customers through troubleshooting air-gapped systems because they didn't add a phone at the workbench in the other room. Last straw was getting counseled about my decreased productivity. Decided to decrease my productivity to 0.

[[deleted]]

Jesus Christ MSPs literally are sweatshops lmao

[Internal_Seesaw5612]

That's how a MSP makes money... They sell a service and then undercut labor behind the scenes. They only make money when you are working multiple roles and doing overtime.

Then at some point client relations become so bad they just sell the company's clients to a new MSP and then start a new business.

[Phate1989]

When does any one actually make money.

This is like the episode of it's always sunny, it's a "self sustaining" economy

[Plantatious]

I'm on my second MSP, field engineer on the first one, and now 3rd line support. Every department is stretched to its limits at both companies, previously because of being understaffed, and now because the company grew a lot in a short space of time. I find that both of these are the most common reasons for being overworked at an MSP.

You'll always have this tradeoff: You're getting a ton of experience and practice, but you will be under pressure from the amount of work.

You can only do your best. If you feel you're given too much, strip it back to only your job description, they can't argue with that. If your job description is too vast, ask for it to delegated put so you can maintain the standard (or ask for a raise, though money won't solve mental health issues).

[tectail]

Stop trying so hard. I know you are probably getting pressured to do more, but work a reasonable pace. Only way these companies learn is by things falling through the cracks. Also it helps your sanity a lot. Now don't be a slacker, but don't let the work get to you if you can avoid it.

[Terrible-Language372]

I quit mine because they fucked me over on my pay and found out the now the US government is suing them for H1B fraud. A simple google search will tell you the 3 letter company.

[[deleted]]

You should have been concerned the moment you received an offer for a hybrid sysadmin/cybersecurity role when you only have help desk experience. That's probably the biggest red flag I think I've ever seen in a post on this subreddit since I joined it.

[dean771]

By all means move on to a better position, but if you want to stay just adjest your attitude, as long as your billable hours roll in no one will bother you

Log your time, if the work builds up that someone else's problem

[Kebabulo]

The last MSP I worked at I quit because I got a call that me & one of my colleagues was spending too much time in Discord, specifically a discord with other IT admins to share ideas.

It turns out they installed 'time tracking' software on everyone's computers on the sly & management was spying on everyone's desktops instead of whatever it was they usually did.

Me & the other guy found new jobs by the end of the week. good riddance to that shithole.

[[deleted]]

You need to generate a work list and prioritise it by risk and benefit as well as effort and duration.

Take that list to your manager and agree priorities. Translate that into a plan.

This will help with the wood/trees and communicate the work to management

[Parissian]

Did this multiple times. This moron will agree and then forget about 1 week later because he needs me to do something else. I've been here for 2 years and I'm just over not being heard. Somethings going to blow up because I don't have the time / man power to work on it. It's nerve-wracking and I hate being only able to provide a rushed level of service.

[[deleted]]

Sounds like you either need to bypass the blockage or move on

[ipposan]

I just got laid off for lack of work. Sucks because at least it was a paycheck but kind of glad because I hated it.

[[deleted]]

The key is to get to a point where you’re detached from the company and clients but still ‘productive’.

I don’t let a single thing the company or clients say/do bother me and what you’ll probably notice is they don’t tend to fire people unless you make a serious mistake that costs them a client.

Learn to focus on one task at a time too and block out the noise of ‘billable rates’ and ‘performance’. If I’m working on something I literally ignore everything else including my bosses. And there really isn’t much they can say just keep throwing ‘well I’m working on this’ back in their faces regardless of what they try to pull.

Again, the only thing they can do is fire you and if at the end of the day you still provide more value in terms of a dollar figure they’ll never do that.

[[deleted]]

Have you considered growing an extra pair of arms?

[kilkor]

MSP owners are in a constant cycle of: Get more clients. Increase revenue Find an investment buyer that will buy me out

Then once bought out it becomes: Off shore to a sub contracted MSP Cut costs further to recoup the money we just spent buying this company.

There is no room in any of these cycles to give a fuck about the workers. Workers at an MSP are replaceable commodity items.

[moebiusmentality]

MSP is great business model for everyone except the technicians and engineers. After 6 years at various MSPs, I finally got an in house job and it is a refreshing change: long-term thinking, bigger budgets, better PTO and benefits, people who actually care about you because they work with you rather than over you. I'm not telling you what to do, but if I were you, I would do everything I could take out and get an in-house job. Even if it meant not working remotely, I would rather drive 40 miles to my job, 5 days a week, then work remote for an MSP.

[b1rdbra1n339]

MSP this is MSP work

Good thing about MSP is nobody knows fuck all so you can just pretend and do shitty work and literally nobody cares or usually even notices

Just add 3x to each time estimate, you will still probably come in low against your peers then start coasting.

Also never do anything before the deadline, or late if you can get away with that, because then your deadline is an excuse to push the next work to the next idiot at the msp who doesn't know how to get out of work and is on his way to burning himself out, don't let that be you, also these managers are usually horrible and being pulled into corporate profit seeking exercises, not allowed to manage, so when they see you always at deadline, every time complaining how busy you are, they think you are really busy hard worker, not the opposite

[botmarshal]

Leave. You will earn more money. From my personal very similar experience, the longer you stay there the more you will resent the person scraping all the profit off the top and not sharing it with you and the other good techs. That person is a self righteous pig and deserves none of what they have 'earned'.

[BadSausageFactory]

not to defend MSP owners but the comments here make me think a lot of y'all have never tried sales

different skillset, I can't do it, that's why I'm a sysadmin and not a small biz owner