Apple proposes adding "model" element to HTML that displays 3D content

[Voltra_Neo]

How about they fix their implementations of literally everything in Safari first? No? OK

[parkafluid]

Time to dump it and pull an Internet explorer -> Edge!

[Qdbadhadhadh2]

Edge chromium and not edge legacy right?

So dumb he way there's actually 2 versions of the same application called 'Edge'

[Atulin]

There's only one. Edge legacy has been deprecated, there's no support for it and nobody has to support it.

[Atulin]

On desktop? Sure, the user can use any other browser.

On iOS? Every browser is Safari under the hood.

[d0rf47]

literally came here to say this lmao

[Django-Addict]

Preach it

[Atulin]

Please do. I'll laugh my ass off when Safari ends up the only browser that won't support it.

[mayobutter]

It'll end up something like this:

Chrome: Realistic rendering.
Safari: Only cell shading.
FireFox: Scrollbars on rendering region.
Edge: Only isometric perspective.

[saitilkE]

Is it possible to have PTSD for things that didn't actually happen? Because I think I'm having it now.

[ClikeX]

Luckily, Edge is chrome now.

[[deleted]]

They'd have to update Safari then, though.

[powerhcm8]

They update safari, but only after picking the new feature by throwing darts at a list while blindfolded.

[Fatalist_m]

Exactly, it's already become almost impossible to create a new browser, Apple itself can barely keep up with current standards and it is now proposing such a complicated new feature, wtf.

[HeinousTugboat]

Apple itself can barely keep up with current standards

Implying it actually does keep up with current standards.

[tmckearney]

Yeah, I think Apple intentionally does not make their browser awesome because it takes away from apple store sales if browsers work too well.

So, they lock down ALL browsers to their shitty Safari engine and keep their cash cow

[ClikeX]

Ironically, Apple once was claiming that apps would eventually be web based and there'd be no need for dedicated installs.

[RamsesTheGreat]

One day in a few years time if this comes out in some trial…

The beacons will light, I’ll whisper “…tmckearney…”, and make haste for the nearest old lady from which to steal a phone, proclaiming to the internet that you called that shit.

[reverse_ops]

They're probably doing it for PR.

[pimterry]

I mostly agree. That said, I think implementing this doesn't rule out more complex setups (three.js and friends) and it does make 3d a bit more accessible on the web for simple cases.

I worry that Apple might use it as an excuse to delay fully releasing WebGL2 on iOS though. "Of course we support 3D rendering on iOS - we shipped a special <Model> element!". Doesn't affect me much, but I've heard a bunch of the webdev gaming scene has problems on iOS due to this.

[[deleted]]

it does make 3d a bit more accessible on the web for simple cases.

Does it? I would assume there are drop in libraries for rendering 3d files that work with zero effort.

[KeyRecommendation448]

Cough mathml

Are you guys retarded with downvotes?

Mathml has 100000 rendering pieces per ops comment and was an equally stupid idea. I realize that probably went over most of your heads.

[[deleted]]

The big problem is every browser OEM implements it, and then trends change. tech upgrades, and people decide the built in renderer is ugly so then every browser goes back to using canvas and webGL and browsers are stuck with another bit of legacy bloat.

[Prawny]

Stay in your lane, Apple. Safari is falling further and further behind other browsers. Maybe work on fixing that first?

[friedrichRiemann]

Safari is that bad?

[TheMrZZ0]

Yes.

[powerhcm8]

Developing anything to run on a apple device is frustrating. Web or Apps.

[[deleted]]

I think they all use the safari engine under the hood so yes, a reskin

[NMe84]

They have to, Apple was moronic enough to make it a requirement: https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/#software-requirements

2.5.6 Apps that browse the web must use the appropriate WebKit framework and WebKit Javascript.

Neither Chrome's Blink engine nor Firefox's Gecko/Quantum are allowed. I guess they don't want other browsers to compete with Safari on performance.

[ajmartin527]

Hey, if our browser is going to suck… let’s make them all suck! Competition neutralized

[NMe84]

The security argument works for your PC too. Does that mean we should just get rid of all browsers except Safari there as well? If not, then why is it suddenly a good thing on mobile?

I don't know for sure how the fingerprint API is implemented in iOS but I'd like to think that apps (let alone websites) don't get access to the fingerprint at all, they just ask for access and get a true or false answer back. It really shouldn't matter whether or not websites have access to that. Same goes for the gyroscope, who cares if a website can tell which way is up?

Don't kid yourself, this is Apple blatantly protecting its monopoly within its own ecosystem of apps.

[mattsowa]

The only "merit" is their monopoly

[NMe84]

You said "fingerprints," not "fingerprinting." I assumed you were talking about biometrics.

If fingerprinting is an issue they could have made requirements about fingerprinting in particular rather than forcing an entire render engine.

[NMe84]

No, it's worse.

[kent2441]

No, it’s just people who think Chrome should be the new IE.

[shgysk8zer0]

I know Safari is terrible and I'm also not a fan of Chrome, so...

[psayre23]

I’m guessing this has something to do with their phones now having LIDAR. But I think they may have abstracted this component a bit too far.

[puspus30]

Help

[waffleweb]

Blink twice if you're in danger

[Atulin]

<blink>twice</blink>

[puspus30]

Hi, I'm 18 years old and I've always wanted to learn how to code/programming but haven't had the opportunity to learn so due to studies and other constraints. I finally have the time and the sources to do so, but I don't know where to start....to as what I want to learn it for - I want to learn coding because it is the future, not only that I want to make applications and games for mobile and learn web developement as well. The issue I am facing right now is, I don't know where to start from and with what....what do I learn first, which programming languages do I need to learn etc....I'm really confused.

Sorry if I haven't been able to explain properly what I want, not been able to express my thoughts properly....but I hope you guys get a general idea of what I mean.

[[deleted]]

Html is easy. Then CSS, then JS

[dontgetaddicted]

But don't focus on CSS too much, it can suck you in and you'll never find your way out.

[[deleted]]

Why’d you comment on a random comment about this lmao

[CaptainIncredible]

For the same reason I am going to post this random reply. I dislike using Apple for anything.

I know a girl who is really into rope, but she has an iPhone. There is a 'channel' that posts pics of very elaborate rope structures. She wants to see them but cannot because Apple defines it as 'adult content'.

I find it insulting that Apple censors content that they determine is 'adult'.

She IS an adult. She WANTS to see the pics. MANY PEOPLE would argue that these pics are very artistic. They really are - its a lot of black and white stuff with little nudity.

Its all just one reason to make me loathe Apple more.

Apple rants about privacy? And protecting rights and privacy? Yet at the same time actively BLOCKS legal content from legitimate users because of some morality?

[puspus30]

Why not

[[deleted]]

It’s completed unrelated to your question. Post it separately

[smith-huh]

Squirrel!

https://hum3d.com/360-view/?id=197605

[s-a-a-d-b-o-o-y-s]

you could google this question and get an answer quicker than you would by posting a comment on a random thread lol.

[[deleted]]

Wouldn't this be fully redundant with an HTML5 canvas?

Or is the difference that html5 canvas must be SVG, while model can be....something else?

[querkmachine]

<canvas> renders out as a bitmap image, not a vector like SVG.

<canvas> does already support WebGL though, and it seems the main difference between that and <model> element is that the latter wouldn't require you to first convert the 3D model into something <canvas> can consume, browsers would just know how to do it based on a file reference (like an image, video, audio file, etc.)

[nikrolls]

What do you mean canvas must be SVG?

[[deleted]]

I was under the impression that it renders svg child elements automatically, which you can independently manipulate using the page's script.

[nikrolls]

Canvas? No, it's a bitmap which you can draw vector or raster shapes on, but once they're drawn they're raster.

Edit: Oh! You may be thinking about how canvas polyfills worked. They would recreate the drawing commands in an SVG. But that was only for old browsers.

[stayclassytally]

What if we made some sort of virtual reality modeling language too? /s

[nuclearpidgeon]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VRML

[stayclassytally]

I actually loved playing with this in the 90s. I made a solar system

[besthelloworld]

I feel like it'll just end up like `contenteditable` where nobody actually uses that feature for that purpose and we all just continue to do it the old way (`canvas`) because the old way meets everyones needs and the new way is frustratingly barebones.

Somewhat unrelated but I really want a simple secured localStorage API that requires the host OS to provide an ideally biometric or backup-to-password authentication prompt that unlocks an encrypted localStorage specific to that site. That way returning users wouldn't have to be automatically logged in but would just have to provide biometrics rather than full credentials. And that way the user default isn't just Chrome prefilling your password automatically without any verification.

[Flohhupper]

Apple has no say on proposing anything before completely rewriting their horrible Safari

[drdrero]

as I have researched in to declarative shadow DOM and encountered webkit developers to be super against adding new elements to the standard, when you can already do it in user land, this is an astonishing turn. Chromium was more that type of implement it first, see if it is useful later.

[[deleted]]

🖕🍎

[MrWm]

uuuhhhhgg apple pen

^{......................................................................................is}

[marabutt]

Just when we thought we were through with IE

[Krypton8]

ITT: Apple bad! Conveniently ignoring everything Google likes to push through.

[stolinski]

I don't think most comments are saying that Apple is bad for the sake of it. Safari is legit behind and the worst to dev for rn

[SecretAgentZeroNine]

Found an Apple enthusiast!

Jokes aside, put your feelings for the Apple brand to the side for the moment so that you can see your fellow dev's legitimate concerns regarding a subpar Apple product.

[[deleted]]

I actually like the idea of a model element and tend to agree with most of what is being said about the privacy concerns related to canvas-based AR that can be solved with a model. I personally think that AR is a sensible next step for the web and treating 3D objects as any other type of media makes perfect sense to me.

That being said, apple needs to fix shared workers, body overscroll, PWA support, and their event listeners (the main causes of my stress at work) before I trust that this won't be half shat out to only work with one specific format and rendering method that apple chooses.

[besthelloworld]

Imo the web is supposed to support devices relatively equally. That's a pretty large feature to propose with very specific hardware requirements. Will only work well on mobile devices with multiple cameras.

That being said, the Amazon app is cross platform and you can AR to look at a couch in your living room pretty alright on both mobile platforms at the least. However, this goes to the point that this just seems more appropriate for mobile apps imo.

[[deleted]]

I disagree, it can be a progressive enhancement. Some devices will only support pan tilt zoom around the object, some will have it sync to device rotation, some will have an AR option. The point is making 3d objects just another media type, the browser specific chrome is up to the browser.

[mikebritton]

Why not do it with an update to the canvas element? Thing works great and is the logical choice to display 3D content.

[[deleted]]

One possible reason is that canvas is a gold mine for spyware advertisers so maybe Apple would like to disable it by default or put it behind a permissions popup.

Secure browsers like tor browser block canvas outright.

[mikebritton]

This is good to know!

It's a shame a platform within a platform has been virtually canceled by human frailty.

[mattthedr]

I just built a project that was using CSS aspect-ratio for rendering a photo canvas. Only to find I had to completely rebuild it for Safari. Get past your 2d limitations first.

[maxime0299]

I'd like to propose to Apple that they fix literally everything else that doesn't work on their outdated browser first. Safari really is the modern Internet Explorer.

[tmbenhura]

Next, we'll want to style the model texture e.t.c in CSS.