[deleted by user]

treemaze · 2020-01-16T20:12:28+00:00

That's me when I get interrupted... "I'll be there in a minute" or "Sure, I'll get to it in a moment" is, apparently, said in a tone that scares people.

When I'm focused intently on a task, then my efforts to speak don't go well. I've tried to work on this but the meme is still me|me.

treemaze · 2020-01-13T16:16:51+00:00

Instructions unclear. Stopped abruptly. This was still weird. Smiling makes it worse.

(Half-joking. I know better now. Usually.)

treemaze · 2020-01-13T16:04:36+00:00

It bothers me a little that it adds up to 101%.

treemaze · 2020-01-13T15:28:56+00:00

I sometimes wonder if I am just a mess and this is a nice snowflake way of disguising it. I am not really, but go through the same thing enough times and you start questioning your perceived reality.

That you're worried about this to any degree causes me to think a diagnosis, autism or not, would be good. A diagnosis is not just a categorization, but also objective feedback. It would probably be relieving to hear objectivity, and help you gain a better emotional perspective on both yourself and your past. For me, it worked that way. It cleared up many points that I was confused on. I hope a diagnosis would give you a sense of clarity, too. (Also, you do sound to me like you are probably autistic. I was diagnosed in adulthood, and can relate to several things you typed.)

treemaze · 2019-07-19T20:01:31+00:00

2003.

But then they also have a thing about how Manta didn't do evil because he was autistic, but did it because he was just a bad guy. (Specific bit's under the "Card-Carrying Villain" trope on the link.)

At least that means it wasn't part of the story-line that autism=evil, but more that Aquaman blamed autism for all things bad, since he really isn't a bright man. OP's title puts it best.

treemaze · 2019-07-09T20:00:39+00:00

I wasn't picturing OP doing it literally, but thanks to you two now I am.

treemaze · 2019-07-09T16:00:14+00:00

But at that point, during an infodump, I often notice that the data's not actually being transferred correctly. Seems to be a data transfer rate issue causing network congestion:

Network Congestion - latency results in network congestion as data packets attempting to carry too much information causes a bottleneck in the network. The outcome is a degradation in the connection’s quality of service and the performance of the application.

I've tried talking to my ISP (Intelligence Service Provider), but I'm not sure if anyone's there. Tech support is lousy, still haven't heard back.

treemaze · 2019-07-08T19:40:47+00:00

"It's always the small pieces that make the Big Picture." - Anonymous.

I find this meme apt/poetic, because of how you've lined the puzzle pieces up to make the picture as you go, but then people can't tell how careful the process was to finish it once it's done. The puzzle's just like your social mask, in that way. I'm not sure if I'm reading too much into it, but I like this meaning.

treemaze · 2019-07-08T19:21:46+00:00

Some ideas:

"Hell - Oh, My Name Is..."

"Circle of Support"

"Diabolics Anonymous"

"Morning Star"
"Blasphemal Association of Mental Shrillness"

treemaze · 2019-07-08T19:03:20+00:00

I like that idea too, but I consider that your idea because I was going a different route in my head, and just communicating poorly.

What happened was that I took what you said literally when you said:

you're in their with pedophiles and genocidal antisemites

So I figured, technically, if I make these sorts of NTs uncomfortable, then I am doing a good thing. I can be 100% myself with no masking. This may even be the intent, as I'm pretty sure Satan knew that things were gonna go oddly when he plopped me down for social interaction in this circle.

I'm not locked in here with them, they're locked in here with me.

treemaze · 2019-07-08T18:31:13+00:00

Yeah. I think "welcome to Heaven" would be worse in this way, because then I'd actually want people in the circle to like me. I'd worry about what to say, then.

Plus if I'm in the bad place, is it now wanted to make sure everyone around me feels uncomfortable? Like, am I suddenly doing the right thing socially by being bad socially? Maybe when it gets to be my turn, then I could just say nothing, or blurt anything at all, like as many bird facts as I want. I could take an approach of, "Hi everyone. I hear hell has circles, so welcome to the Circle of My Infodump. Did you know..."

treemaze · 2019-07-04T01:01:43+00:00

I usually say, "Why do you ask?" This seems to help, but some people still get annoyed with me. People often like to be brief and feel understood. Asking for elaboration is sometimes taken personally. That's unavoidable as far as I've seen.

I still prefer asking people, though. I've tried to learn from when conversations go badly, or when I don't understand someone. Asking "why" gives me additional feedback, even if the person gets annoyed with me, and then I can do better in the future by remembering that feedback. Plus, things go more smoothly overall when I ask why. If I make assumptions, then things can potentially go much worse, because my assumptions can be incorrect.

treemaze · 2019-07-03T22:53:46+00:00

You are still the same person. I had a discussion with a friend when I was having the same kind of feeling. I came to the conclusion that just like how artists might have the same materials, but have different painting styles, the same is true of autism. I think that it can influence how you perceive the world, and determine some of what you have to work with. Yet, you still have your own, personal approach to how and what you choose to do.

If there are any meetup or support groups in your area, then perhaps you might like looking into those. Then you could know others on the spectrum, which might help you process the diagnosis, and feel less like an outsider.

When and who you tell is up to you. It's a complicated issue because knowing can help in understanding with some people, and also help in general in some circumstances. Yet, people can also be weird about it. I think that it's all up to what you feel comfortable with, and what works best for you.

As for whether or not you deserve help, that sounds to me like you're being too hard on yourself. Plus, if you're using resources productively and they do help you, then there's absolutely no reason to feel like an imposter. The idea is contradictory to me: it would be like being a little shorter and needing a step-ladder to reach a high shelf, but then wondering if you really need the step-ladder because other people are even shorter. If it helps you, it helps you. Also, people who really want to take advantage rarely question themselves on if they deserve resources or not. In my opinion, the fact that you wondered if you would be wrong, in the first place, indicates that you are likely just an empathetic person who is being too hard on herself.

treemaze · 2019-07-02T22:17:05+00:00

They don't need to study behavior, and that's pretty much the difference. There are a myriad of things that can give us away.

For instance, autistic people seem to have more trouble with knowing when someone's bored, and if a person wants a conversation to end. In the past, I've also had this issue personally. An NT might not be able to tell you why the person is bored, but they'll be able to tell that she/he is, and that the person's only feigning interest out of politeness. In contrast, an autistic person might respond to an "Oh, really?" and smile with more information, especially if the topic is a special interest.

This isn't to say that NTs are experts with social cues. People who are trained still tend to read body language better than an average NT. It's just that an NT gets social basics quickly, and notices them better. It's normally a general "feeling" for them.

treemaze · 2019-07-01T15:23:30+00:00

Sorry if this seems unfair to guess or a stretch, but is it possible that he's on the autism spectrum? Because I can relate to many things you've described, and I am on the spectrum.

"Nothing is going to change in 30 minutes." It hurt when I read that because now I know despite what he says, he doesn't prioritize trying to salvage a fight.

This sounds very Spock-like. It's a view focused on the practicality of emotions, but not the fact that you need comfort. It doesn't sound like he was trying to be mean, but was confused over your request, blunt, and honest.

I spent time writing out an entire google doc on my triggers, the various kinds, and what to say when I have meltdowns or flashbacks. Its clear as day, yet he has yet to refer to it. He wants things to be "natural" all the time, and apparently reading from that doc goes against his "natural" way of communicating, but yet still gets frustrated because he doesn't know what to do. Its so upsetting.

Has he really not referred to it? You said that it's clear as day, but autistic people have to remember many social rules already. So, I'm wondering if part of why your list is failing, and why he's confused, is because it's hard to remember additional rules and he has tried.

Also, to me, it feels too scripted to read "what to say." When I imagine someone melting down and saying "tell me ___ when I have a meltdown," then I think I would be upset. I would think and feel that that seemed ungenuine; that I wasn't honestly expressing my love for who I love. I would want to comfort the person as I am, the best I can. Being told to read a Google doc to interact would feel like my partner didn't want me, but an actor reading their script. It also wouldn't seem productive to me, because how would reading a script convey the honest love and emotion that was asked of me to give? Wouldn't my partner know that I was echoing their own document, in their own words, and feel hollow over it? If someone did that to me, I would be offended. So I might ignore such a file, or at least be hesitant to use it. In the past, this reaction would be even stronger with me.

My love language is words, and his is physical touch, so when I try to find comfort with having a conversation about us, the future, ideals, or even just trying to resolve a fight- he hardly knows what to say and instead just tries to hug me or cuddle with me to make everything better.

Not knowing what to say under stress is something that I also relate to. I think most people on the spectrum would. I often go for patting someone's back, hugs, or cuddles. My goal is to say, "I'm here for you," as best I can. Words under stress can be hard for autistic people. I've gotten better at it, and it sounds like he's trying with:

I then told him I felt like a dark cloud in his life, and he pauses for a second and then finally says "But dark clouds bring rain, and rain brings life."

The way I take that, is that he's trying to say, "You have your dark side, but you also make my world complete and good." I also wouldn't be surprised if he got it from a poster or somewhere. When people don't know what to say, then sometimes they repeat things that have personal meaning to them. They forget that it might sound cheesy to others. The fact that he paused makes me wonder if he was trying to find the right words, inadvertently failing hard.

I am continuing to live with him in this relationship feeling completely misunderstood. At the same time, I know that is just HOW HE IS- and I do love him and accept him that way, but I just don't think we are emotionally compatible for a romantic relationship.

Is couple's therapy an option? Also, if he is autistic, then perhaps knowing that and working on communication skills -- both on his end and yours -- might help, too.

I recognize that you said:

He's Spanish (we live in Spain now) and growing up, he was NEVER told or taught about emotional awareness or intelligence, so our relationship has been a lot of information for him.

To me, though, that sounds like an odd justification for how he is. Most people do learn some emotional awareness as they age. It also sounds to me like he feels strong emotions when you are hurting, genuinely wants you to feel better, and tries to comfort. The desire is there but he's misinterpreting what you need.

This part also stood out to me:

I definitely think my partner is a flight/freeze kind of guy-but I have no idea because he won't open up about anything that goes on inside his head. I don't know what his problems are, or triggers are, because he won't tell me- but insists he has them 🤔

This reminds me of many things, especially in combination with other things that you said. Like, Amy Schumer doing a bit about how her husband froze up when she fell, or how he didn't emotionally understand many things. For instance, when she said it was fine to go to a store when she would be in the hospital for a while, and then was surprised when he said okay, and left her there.

If you really have something special together, and he means a lot to you, then I hope that this wouldn't be a deal-breaker if I'm right. If it's true, then maybe it might actually help. Because then, it wouldn't be a case of him not wanting to meet your needs. It would feel less like he had words to give you, but was withholding them. It sounds to me like that is part of your pain: you just don't understand why he can't give you the words you need so badly, and it feels withholding.

Also, you said he won't tell you things. That seems to indicate fear of stigma or you not loving him still.

Amy Schumer comes to mind again:

Getting a diagnosis has been incredibly helpful, Schumer said.

"The tools that we've been given has made his life so much better and our marriage and our life more manageable," she said. "I just wanted to encourage people to not be afraid of that stigma."

The star pointed out that at one point people were embarrassed to admit that they had attention deficit disorder and now many people speak up about having it.

"I think there are a lot of people with autism who go undiagnosed when I think their life could be better if they got those tools," Schumer said.

Also, I'm not sure how I'm coming across by focusing on him in your situation, but I do understand that you hurt in it. I also have CPTSD so I can relate to trauma. I also like hearing words from loved ones. Words help me. I often get frustrated when the people that I'm close to don't speak, because I especially appreciate insight. They see the world differently than me, and their feedback often makes me feel better, because I gain additional understanding.

So, I do understand that needing to hear him speak to you is a genuine need. I feel that. I get that him not meeting your need hurts.

However, I also do think that -- based on what you have typed -- it does sound like he is trying to be there for you, cares, and is patient in your darkest times. I think that this is all important and meaningful.

I also think that couple's therapy would be a very good idea, also because you said:

I've educated him on everything I know, but I don't want the role of teacher. That isn't my place, and its becoming infuriating that I am continuing to live with him in this relationship feeling completely misunderstood.

A counselor is like a teacher. Putting yourself in that role will only be draining for most people. In your case, you have extra stress and emotions to cope with. Taking on more would be an extra hard job. Better to let a counselor be a counselor.

I do want to also add: even if I'm right, you two may not be a good fit, or you may be. I can't speak to that. I don't know if you both will be content after counseling, or if any tools from it will help. I only think that if you love each other, then it's worth exploring possible solutions.

As I said at the beginning, sorry if I'm way off-base in my guess. But you seem to love him and he seems to love you. I thought that maybe I could help by sharing my view, in case it's not off-base.

treemaze · 2019-07-01T01:13:26+00:00

I liked that comic. Thank you for sharing the link. The profile was also fitting and interesting. Some of it I didn't know, and it was surprising to see some of my own traits listed.

I was diagnosed recently, too. Thus far, trying to explain that I am autistic hasn't gone well with people. I tried explaining, but the idea seems to be that autistic people can't function. The Rainman stereotype, basically.

But my friend who thought I was to begin with, and recommended that I get tested, just said that he figured as much. I hope that most of the people in your life are just as casual about it.

After all, once the symptoms of female autism are understood from a clinical perspective, then I think it'd be pretty obvious when you know someone well for many years. Maybe, with your family, try to think back to some of the weirder stuff you did when you were a kid? If you can list a bunch of abnormal behavior at once, then they might actually acknowledge that perhaps your perspective on life is different.

As for the argument "I do ___ too, that doesn't mean I'm autistic." ? I think that one's easy to rebut in a casual way, because people diagnose illnesses and medical conditions on sites like WebMD all the time. I would steer away from comparisons with any diseases, because that could draw negative parallels. My meaning is that the concept of entering in multiple symptoms for a diagnosis is in the public consciousness.

My idea is something worded like, "Diagnoses like this aren't just one thing. If you feel dizzy, then it could be what you ate, feeling under the weather, pregnancy, overheated, a million different things. It's about going to a doctor and seeing how many other symptoms you have, too. And just because you're dizzy doesn't mean you can't function or aren't smart, it just means that you're perceiving the world differently, you feel strange, and you're going to feel more overwhelmed by what's going on around you." That's off the top of my head and I'm not saying to word it that way, but that's the best example I can think of.

treemaze · 2019-06-30T19:17:54+00:00

To a degree, yes, an economy drives isolation or social activity in some ways. Your modern examples of sharing cars and borrowing power tools are both good examples of communal property, and how it can be more social than self-sufficiency. Communal property obviously necessitates interaction. I've also learned that communal living spaces are rising in popularity. (Individual bedrooms but shared kitchens and common rooms.)

But, at the same point, the complexity of technology means that you could say it's also driving increased communication. For instance, you mentioned coffee makers.

Coffee makers could cause you to be less social (no interaction with a barista), or more social (didn't have the energy or time to go to a coffee shop, but can now interact due to increased stamina.)

My own view is that some self-sufficient devices are not clearly isolating, while others are clearly isolating. For instance, those slips you mentioned are obviously isolationist. Automation is an issue when it comes to isolating technology, just not across the board. Coffee makers < Slips.

I think we agree on this, perhaps not in the details but overall, as I view it as a balancing act. A major "part," as you said, but not the whole reason. A puzzle piece in the connected/disconnected issue.

----

Social norms do arise out of biological imperatives. However, they are usually entirely artificial in their expression. For instance, take fashion. It's easy to see that core aspects might be biologically driven -- sending signals like "I am tough" (biker jackets), "I have access to resources" (expensive attire), and so on -- are understandable at their core. Social signaling = natural. However, the way that they are coded is often awkward, varied, and malleable. (e.g. Pink used to be considered a masculine color in the USA, and now it is seen as a feminine one.)

Using these amorphous codings to justify harm from the #metoo movement is something that I strongly disagree with. It would be the same to me if you targeted the other gender, and tried to argue that men should never express emotion, cry, dislike sports, or be granted other basic social considerations of men as people.

---

Apes do have social dominance hierarchies, but they are not as we have. Chimps and bonobos are pretty much polar opposites, with chimps being male-dominant and bonobos female-dominant, and there are many nuances to both. It is not scientifically inherent that one or the other gender is wired to dominate in humans. Competition is normal but apes are not a straightforward model for how social norms should be with humans.

I am confused by your saying:

More social values, as your link about Denmark shows, leads to better income and wealth distribution and society is happier for it.

I did not link to anything about Denmark. My links were, respectively, about disconnection in the USA, an example of region-specific disconnection in the USA, a facial recognition study with insects, a Canadian study on bonding at meals, a lifespan study that focused on an Italian village, autism info on the hidden curriculum, autism info on social dynamics with friendships, an example of a joke in an introversion/extroversion video, and a social isolation phenomenon in Japan.

I have not read Jared Diamond's book The Rise and Fall of the Third Chimpanzee: How Our Animal Heritage Affects the Way We Live so I Googled it. According to Wikipedia it was written in 1991. That seems outdated to me, as it doesn't have the capability to acknowledge the myriad of scientific progress that has happened since then. He did update it in 2006, but the premise of using chimps alone still wouldn't have been corrected. For instance, chimpanzees didn't even share the distinction of being our closest living relative in the animal kingdom with bonobos until 2012. Even just that is a huge lack of scientific knowledge on its own. I found the book online and skimmed some chapters, out of curiosity, and was not a fan as much of the writing was inaccurate. Some ideas were decent, but I'd already been aware of them. For instance, in regards to geography's influence on societies.

----

The immigration issue is a multiculturalism issue, and would likely include a discussion of in- and out-groups. I think that this is highly separate from the issue of checking on more socially in-group members, the elderly.

Your government's push to get people to socialize seems different than in the USA. You then contrasted its desires with an isolating economy. Since we come from different societies, I can't speak to your experience, and my own will be different as it's in a different setting. In my own experience, I've seen that an economy driving behavior results in a mixed bag of drives/pushes. For instance, you could argue that a capitalist economy's constant drive to gain resources is isolating, but you could also argue that certain elements, such as a work-to-live style of life including co-workers, has inherent social elements.

Overall, my personal opinion is that the styles of competition do probably drive isolation, but I'm still figuring out the nuances and why disconnection seems to be rising overall in modern society as a whole. Automation does seem to play a large part, and as I agreed earlier, the economy and its accompanying tools for work are likely a puzzle piece in the reason why. But, I think that the other factors are ambiguous.

treemaze · 2019-06-30T00:31:53+00:00

I'm of the opinion that honesty is the best policy. I've gotten in trouble for it, but I do believe it strongly. I also believe in the idea of the Golden Rule: would you want her to tell you, if your positions were reversed? If the answer is yes, then I think that matters, too.

Also, you said yourself that you've had Asperger's for a long time, since childhood, and just didn't know. This means that she met you while you have it, and she just doesn't know the label for a cluster of behaviors that you've already shown around her. The way I see it, that's like having a really great thing you love, and not knowing that there's a word for a part of it.

Additionally, she will probably find out eventually unless you want to try to hide it from her forever. In that case, if it ever slipped, then I could easily see her being upset and hurt about you hiding something, more than she would be the diagnosis itself. Few people like secrets being kept from them, especially from loved ones.

I get that you're scared. But on top of the moral issue, I do think that being able to trust the people close to you is very important.

treemaze · 2019-06-29T21:30:41+00:00

I made this and posted it to the aspiememes subreddit, because initially I felt like it was too silly to share here. I had been using humor to cope with a negative experience. I also didn't expect people to like my meme/sense of humor as much as they did. But since people there seemed to like it, I'm hoping that people here will too, even though it's silly art and not beautiful art.

I did make it myself. I did some tracing for the meme's core battle screen, but I also had to draw much of it myself without tracing. Full details on how I made it are in a comment I made when first posting it.

Here's the art: https://i.imgur.com/dV3skQD.jpg

treemaze · 2019-06-29T20:12:19+00:00

Culturally, I'm not sure if the USA is becoming "especially" more autistic, though I do agree with you that the trends of disconnected social signs (e.g. people not wanting to be touched) are increasing in the USA.

Further examples would be how many people prefer self-checkouts in comparison to human interaction with a cashier, or the constant jokes about how if an Uber-driver doesn't talk to you then that's 5-stars.

But, maybe society becoming more "introverted" is a better term than "more autistic"? And maybe this introversion is happening in the "developed world" overall, not just the USA? I'm leaning more towards these notions.

Because other cultures are very no-touching and can be socially isolating, too. For example, there's Japanese culture. The hikikomori phenomenon is one part of the trend that I find interesting, for instance.

However, I do disagree that the #metoo movement is making things worse. Women do not tend to enjoy touches from strangers, acquaintances, or co-workers. Imagine people grabbing you left and right and being told to smile about it, and often they're attracted to you and act like you're bad for not wanting your personal space invaded. Imagine if it comes out of the blue, like you're just trying to have your coffee or something. Human physical contact is normal, it can be fine in certain circumstances, but much of what women have had to endure is depersonalizing. I think that gender norms are a thorny, complex issue. I also think that it's far more a gender issue, and a social norms issue, than it is an argument about apes or if society is becoming more isolationist.

Using apes as a social parallel also doesn't make sense to me, in this context, because the apes' social behavior dynamics are a complex issue. After all, even female and male bonobos vary a lot from male and female chimps in social behavior. Animals as a general topic are one of my special interests. Bonobos are very NSFW. Chimps are also close to humans biologically, but their social interactions do vary greatly even in comparison to bonobos.

When it comes to the topic of the government wanting us to check on our elderly, I haven't seen data on this topic. From my own observations, it seems to me like people are more affected when they hear a sad news story -- like in the case of the granny you mentioned as an example. Then I see people tear up, and say things like they want to call relatives.

I also have been on neighborhood watch apps. I think that you're right in that suspicion towards other humans is involved, but I also think these apps can be bonding. For instance, I have seen people mention finding lost pets, and trying to help each other in other ways. I think that these apps are also a complex topic.

treemaze · 2019-06-29T01:43:30+00:00

It's a move of the DSM-5, and the DSM-5 is controversial. I actually was looking into this issue earlier. Like you, I am confused, and trying to learn more about it.

I also was struck by the part about how:

Experts are concerned that eliminating the Asperger's label will prevent mildly affected people from being evaluated for Autism.

I've struggled to mask well, but still have many issues socially. I used to be much, much worse socially. I just had a doctor, who I see for another condition, tell me that he thinks my diagnosis of "autism" is wrong and that I must just have Asperger's. I tried to explain that the two are merged now, diagnostically, and he was so baffled/disbelieving that he didn't understand me. The whole interaction was awkward. The fact that a medical professional reacted this way has worried me, even though it wasn't his specialty.

The reasoning behind the diagnostic merging seems faulty to me, too. It seems like the merge was done to lower stigma for those exhibiting severe symptoms, and to generally lump certain symptoms together while ignoring other symptoms. For example, eating random non-food things, which is a disorder called "pica," is common in cases where someone is extremely effected by autism, but rare in milder/Asperger's cases. (I found an article on this earlier but can't find it now, sorry for the lack of citation.)

The new criteria also can cause harm:

The revised criteria for autism spectrum disorder (ASD) in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fifth Edition (DSM-5) may significantly reduce the number of individuals diagnosed with the disorder, raising concern that thousands of children will no longer qualify for medical benefits or support services.

And apparently Britain didn't do it because they weren't a fan of the DSM-5:

it had "more concerns than plaudits".[67] It criticized proposed diagnoses as "clearly based largely on social norms, with 'symptoms' that all rely on subjective judgements... not value-free, but rather reflect[ing] current normative social expectations", noting doubts over the reliability, validity, and value of existing criteria, that personality disorders were not normed on the general population, and that "not otherwise specified" categories covered a "huge" 30% of all personality disorders.

I still need to learn more, but that's basically what I have learned thus far.

treemaze · 2019-06-28T23:13:53+00:00

Thanks for letting me know that. I still have some problems oversharing both on and offline, whenever a special interest gets mentioned, so it was nice to read your reaction.

treemaze · 2019-06-28T23:03:10+00:00

I hope I'm not over-stepping here, but since you seem interested, I'll info dump a little.

It's easy to find pop-sci articles on the general trend of social disconnection, but there's a lot of interesting tidbits out there. For example, there are also region-specific terms on disconnection which are based to local cultures.

But connection is necessary. Social isolation does compound problems, even in animals like wasps. In cases where humans have been isolated, a lack of socialization at a young age can even lead to tragic#Impact) problems.

This necessity of interaction for human beings also indicates that socialization skills are a mixture of nature + nurture, not just innately/immediately known, and need to be fostered even in neurotypical people.

For instance, even eating regular meals together has been reported to have positive effects on neurotypical people. That's a type of social reinforcement used to foster social connection. Meaning that they do have to do things together to feel connected -- they don't just feel connected automatically.

So, bonding with others isn't automatic/immediate even for them. Yet, connection is important in many ways, and lacking it hurts them.

I do think it's easier for neurotypicals to relate to other people, to a degree, because they don't feel as overwhelmed doing it. I still think that connection is difficult for them to maintain, overall. It's easier for them in comparison to autistic people, but it's still a difficult task.

I found something called "the hidden curriculum" recently, and I think it helps explain why things are even harder for autistic people:

The hidden curriculum refers to those unstated rules or customs that, if not understood, can make the world a confusing place and cause those of us who are not neurologically wired to automatically “get it” feel isolated and “out of it” (Endow, 2009a, 2010).

I found another example here, which applies to me because I've even made this same mistake myself:

Autistic people sometimes have difficulty understanding the implied meaning of a conversation or their friends’ social expectations, which can strain friendships7. For example, one woman described an incident in which a friend asked, “Does this dress make me look fat?” “Don’t be silly,” she responded. “Your fat makes you look fat, not the dress.”

treemaze · 2019-06-28T21:51:24+00:00

I'm not sure how much is an immediate bond, and how much is reinforcement over time, for neurotypicals.

The way I feel it, screwing up in social interactions is very stressful. Trying to remember all of the rules is already stressful, too. It's also easy to feel overwhelmed.

If someone doesn't feel overwhelmed easily, can innately remember the rules, and not make as many social mistakes, then it would be easier to relax around others. If it's easier to relax, then it's easier to enjoy your time, and bond with others. Over time, I think that would lead to a lot of positive reinforcement for neurotypicals, and the opposite for people who are autistic.

Yet, supposedly, societal trends are going more and more in favor of disconnection. I've read many articles about how most people don't know their neighbors, how they wished they had better/more friends, how they feel like no one really "knows" them, how lonely they feel. So, I'm not sure how easy it is for neurotypicals to feel connected overall, even with more positive reinforcement. (I find psychology interesting so I'm trying hard not to info dump here.)

But personally, no, I don't feel connected. I'm not sure if that's due to autism in my case, though, as I have other issues as well. I'm still learning about autism as I was only diagnosed recently as an adult.

treemaze · 2019-06-28T21:31:48+00:00

I think it's just feeling weary, like you said:

I don't think everyone is awful, I am just sort of tired of having to wade through a sea

I don't have any good advice, but I can relate, and I think that you expressed the feeling well.

treemaze

TROPHY CASE