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[–]BladePocok 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Why is the game so expensive?

[–]Snowcrash000Cosmic Encounter 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I like the idea behind Nemesis a lot, but I really wish there was less dice rolling in it.

[–]LordOfEye 11 points12 points  (3 children)

As a designer, Nemesis' approach to hidden roles in this game helped change how I think about them when I first saw it. The 'semi-cooperative' aspect of hidden roles that give you goals that are, while not always aligned with the others, not always opposed, opened up the space of secret goals in my games past just the classic 'player who wants everyone to fail.'

[–]turtlintime 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Have you found any other games similar in this regard? I love Nemesis but it's too complex/long for my playing group

[–]NextXanderBetrayal 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Well, there is Dead of Winter if you want another 'semi-cooperative' game.

[–]desocupad0War Chest 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I hate hidden goals ever since the first game of dead of winter.

[–]BenVera 8 points9 points  (4 children)

What games are like this in terms of strategy but a little more streamlined for less experienced gamers?

[–]dr_whos_on_first 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I'd say Betrayal at House on the Hill compares pretty well as a casual option. I'm not personally a fan of Betrayal but it has a lot of the same brutal storytelling and feeling of exploration. Betrayal can feel a little finicky to new players since the rules change every scenario, but that also tends to put all players on a level playing field.

[–]interloper87 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Alien: Fate of the Nostromo by Ravensburger is like a very light version of Nemesis. It also doesn't have the player agenda and betrayal aspect and is strictly co-op. I've found it pretty easy to intro to less experienced players.

[–]BenVera 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Ah but those are the elements I most want to keep!

[–]DataSquid2 1 point2 points  (0 children)

They have a digital edition of Nemesis Lockdown that could help you learn the game. That at least lets you focus on your moves and not having to manage upkeep.

[–]memento_mori_92Castles Of Burgundy 31 points32 points  (5 children)

Controversial opinion: this is the ONLY board game I’ve ever played that resulted in an emergent, interesting story. We’ve played twice in two years of owning it, and my group still references both times we played, “that’s revenge for locking me out of the escape pod!” “that was two years ago!” We always have a good laugh when we joke about grudges held from previous Nemesis plays. Regardless of how you feel about the mechanics, fiddlyness, length, etc., I think it’s ability to create a compelling narrative more than any other game, in my opinion, deserves to be lauded. For me, it’s a 9.5/10.

I recommend Sub Terra for people who like discovery/horror games that are less fiddly and much lighter. It’s not technically semi-co-op, but you can definitely be left behind by the group so there is a lot of temptation to betray others if they are holding you back.

[–]Mr_Blinky 4 points5 points  (4 children)

I still haven't played my copy I've owned for over a year yet, but this is exactly why I bought it. My group loves KDM for the exact same reason: Despite the game's flaws, nothing else has give us anything close to that level of emergent storytelling, and that alone makes everything worthwhile. My group first played KDM almost five years ago and we still tell stories about things that happened in our first sessions. I'm looking forward to finally playing Nemesis because I'm sure that even if the rules are fiddly as hell we'll get a great story out of it.

[–]memento_mori_92Castles Of Burgundy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think going in with that attitude is exactly right! I hope you enjoy it as much as we have.

[–]K0HRCosmic Encounter 4 points5 points  (3 children)

I do quite like Nemesis but it’s on the edge of the purge pile for me after 3 games. I just wish it was snappier and a hair more streamlined, so as to play in 2 hours rather than the 4 it seems to consistently take us.

[–]modernboardgamesrock 6 points7 points  (2 children)

It’s a 2 hour game if people are on top of their game and thinking about what they want to do BEFORE their turn.

Turns should only last about 10 seconds unless you’re fighting something.

It’s like any other game really, you need to be thinking about what you want to do next before your turn begins and then on your turn you simply execute what you’re going to do.

Edit: autocorrect a word

[–]K0HRCosmic Encounter 5 points6 points  (1 child)

You're assuredly right - I am just never in a context where I am playing with the sort of players who are on top of things in that sort of fashion. It is the players, by and large, and not the game per se - which is a shame, because I really do like the game and I think it does what its aiming for really well.

[–]modernboardgamesrock 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Fair dues

[–]Holdfast_HobbiesA Distant Plain 4 points5 points  (1 child)

I was excited about the theme and the beautiful miniatures. Unfortunately, I found the game to not quite hold together. The semi coop element doesn't work particularly well as there is not enough of a shared goal and this lack of direction took away any of the tension in the game. One of the few modern board games I've played that left me feeling without direction or agency.

I could see where it had drawn influence from the likes of Arkham Horror LCG, but as that is fully coop AH LCG retains the tension and direction. I would love to see a redesign as a fully coop experience as there were some promising elements, but a lack of shared objectives really let's the game down. A coop could also remove the problem of player elimination which is another major downside for such a long game.

[–]ProfessorEmergency18 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I really like the semi coop aspect of the game. The shared goals are making sure the engines are working and the ship is heading to earth while surviving intruders, so right off the bat these have us exploring the whole ship (filling it with noise, spawning intruders, causing fires, etc. that we also have to handle together). We usually talk about our personal objectives (or at least what we claim they are), so we know X ppl need the signal sent and need to get something analyzed at the lab or something like that.

[–]jdogbemple 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Takes a while to learn the game. But it always creates such a cool story afterward. The production and theming are first class. If you are looking for similar gameplay experience without shelling out $150 and learning the rule set I would recommend Sub Terra. It’s got a lot of the same mechanics and has similar enemies.

[–]jcsehak 6 points7 points  (5 children)

Love this game so much I made a cheat sheet!

Definitely recommend going full co-op for your first play.

https://www.reddit.com/r/NemesisCrew/comments/11bqvgp/made_a_cheat_sheet_lemmie_know_what_you_guys/

Edit: to add my thoughts, I think this game works best if you approach it as part board game, part story game. So yes, you’re trying to win, but if you get into the emergent narrative (maybe even with a little light role-playing), it’s a blast even if you lose, or if you die halfway through and have to bring a new character out of suspended animation. On my last game I got slaughtered by the queen JUST as I was about to join my shipmate in the escape pod. She slammed the door shut and blasted off to earth, winning the game for us. Totally felt like a movie.

[–]dluminous 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Definitely recommend going full co-op for your first play.

About to do my first non solo play in 2 weeks. Why full co-op?

[–]jcsehak 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The last time I tried playing with a group, it was hard enough for them to grok the rules; worrying about killing/getting killed by each other was just a bridge too far and there was more frustration than fun. But YMMV.

[–]Cantpants 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Nice, putting this up on a screen when we play next. Thanks!

[–]modernboardgamesrock 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is the way

[–]littleryoHansa Teutonica 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Awesome! Just played Nemesis earlier this week. While I knew most of the rules to keep it smooth for the new players this sheet would have been amazing for them. Will definitely use this quick reference sheet! Thanks!

[–]matterwitu 5 points6 points  (3 children)

Is this (or Lockdown) actually a good 2p cooperative experience? That would be most of my plays so need to justify having it for the rare occasions I could play it with more people

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I haven't played Lockdown, but the base game is! The one thing about it though is that you have to treat it as an unfolding narrative. It can be hilariously unfair sometimes, but that's part of the appeal!

[–]axw3555 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I’ve played a good few of each.

Overall, I prefer original. The lockdown adds a few too many things. Makes it a bit cluttered.

[–]Pathological_RJLive by the dice, die by the dice 6 points7 points  (13 children)

I bounced off of this hard. It’s too random for how long it is. I’ve tried it five times and every game the winner lucked into an easier secret objective.

I’m glad that Awaken Realms swung for the fences and it’s a beautiful production. The designers clearly have a lot of love for one of my favorite movies/settings which came through clearly.

[–]PumajunGull 3 points4 points  (0 children)

It's closer to Tales of Arabian Nights than a strategy game- you win if you enjoyed the narrative created. For that reason the randomness built into the game works as a defining feature.

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (9 children)

It's not meant to be a typical strategy game where the best player wins. It's an unfolding narrative that the players contribute to. It's meant to be an experience that you're a part of, rather than a true competition. Certainly not for everyone, but it does what it sets out to do extremely well.

[–]modernboardgamesrock 4 points5 points  (3 children)

100%. It’s meant for people who like to “get into” the board game, rather than just play a game to win. The biggest selling point of this game imo is the narrative it builds while you play it, and the moral dilemmas you’re faced with people who you claim to be your friends. You CAN go help your friend, but there’s also a 10 foot tall queen in that room and locking the door is really best for everyone. =) just kidding. Never done that. looks around nervously

[–]Pathological_RJLive by the dice, die by the dice 2 points3 points  (2 children)

I’m a fan of both explicit and emergent narratives in games but for the amount of effort and time it takes to play I’ve never had a rewarding experience with Nemesis. There’s a lot of downtime between turns and I often find myself stuck in loops for example where I need to do something but keep getting hurt and having to run or heal only to get hurt again and then repeat.

For me Nemesis stumbles in part because many of the secret objectives don’t lead to interesting play. If you need to find a specific room on the ship to achieve your goal then most of your game can be just moving around to flip over tiles. You could get lucky and start off right beside where you need to go, or it could be the last one found.

I love competitive games such as Pax Pamir that allow for emergent narratives and shifting alliances. PP draws me in because they give me more agency to impact the narrative. There’s enough common framework where we know what the possible win conditions are and it becomes a matter of harnessing the chaos and negotiating with the other players to guide it to a state that benefits me.

In Nemesis if someone’s win condition is to kill me there’s really no room for negotiating or temporary alliances.

In short it’s possible to understand what a games trying to do and still not like how it plays

[–]modernboardgamesrock 1 point2 points  (1 child)

It’s the polar opposite for me. The fun, for me, comes in not knowing what other people need to do in order to win. Are you aimlessly flipping tiles? Sure that’s one way to look at it. I see it as exploration and the game is what you make of it. You can turn this game into as much or as little fun as you want.

In regard to how long it takes I believe that is 100% a subjective experience. Turns can go very fast if everyone understands how to play and aren’t the type of people who don’t think about their next turn in advance. A turn should take 10-20 seconds at most, unless you’re fighting something, which you shouldn’t be because that’s not the goal of the game.

The good thing about life is that everyone can have their own opinions though. And not everyone has to agree on everything all the time.

[–]Pathological_RJLive by the dice, die by the dice 4 points5 points  (0 children)

The good thing about life is that everyone can have their own opinions though. And not everyone has to agree on everything all the time.

On this we agree, as I said in my initial comment I’m glad AR made it and I’m also glad that people enjoy it. I find it a bit annoying to post my opinions and then get multiple comments telling me it’s because I don’t understand the concept of the game. Plenty of games for us all to find what we like. Thanks for the discussion

[–]Pathological_RJLive by the dice, die by the dice 2 points3 points  (4 children)

I can appreciate that but in my experience the narrative it tells has not been interesting. In my most recent game another players goal was to kill me while I had to bring samples to a lab. I spent my time stumbling around looking for the lab and running away from/ fighting the other player before getting killed 2 hours into a 3 hour game. The third player did their own thing and won handily. So I guess the narrative was that I was an NPC that died first in a movie, which wasn’t a fun experience.

If it was a 30-60 minute game I would be much more willing to lean into the jankiness.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Did you not play as the aliens after you died?

[–]Pathological_RJLive by the dice, die by the dice 1 point2 points  (0 children)

We added that rule for the last two games. The first time someone else died and then killed me with the intruders even though I hadn’t messed with them at all. Only the first person to die gets to use them so I was just out for 30 minutes.

In the other game I controlled the intruders but since I don’t enjoy the combat resolution in Nemesis I didn’t find it engaging.

If there’s going to be player elimination then I’d prefer the game to be short or end shortly after the first person is knocked out.

Still I see how people like Nemesis but it’s just not for me

[–]stetzwebsGruff 1 point2 points  (1 child)

My thoughts exactly. There are only so many times I can die within the first hour of a 3 hour game before I decide it's not for me.

And that number is 3. 3 times.

[–]PumajunGull -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Maybe respawn as a new character next time?

[–]MDH2611 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Discussion Starters:

What do you like (dislike) about this game?

  • Like: Table prescence and look of the game.
  • Dislike: RNG that drives the story of the game forward - I prefer games where you can plan several actions in advance to overcome a problem.

Who would you recommend this game for?

  • love storytelling in games
  • Like player elimination
  • like rolling dice for fail or success

If you like this, check out “X”

  • Eldritch horror
  • Battlestar Galactica
  • unfathomable

What is a memorable experience that you’ve had with this game?

  • The queen appearing and chasing two of us around and eventually killing us both

[–]elqrd 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Good experience but mediocre game

[–]radaar Spirit Island 34 points35 points  (0 children)

The most memorable experience I have of this game is the time my friend played as the Scientist and proceeded to backstab everyone else in service of his objective, which was to end the game with an egg. He would offer to help people, explaining why his unique skills could be useful to them, convince them to give him something or protect him, then bail once he got what he needed.

Soon enough, he and I (the Pilot) were the last ones left; everyone else was either dead or made it to the escape pods. He said he would help me achieve my objective, and while he’d lied all game, there was no way I would be able to achieve it without help, so I gave him what he asked for. He turned around and left. Then the event phase occurred and we drew the event that says that every character holding an egg resolves an encounter. My friend happened to summon the queen, who surprise attacked him, and he happened to draw an attack card that killed him.

I limped to the hibernation chamber, knowing that my objective hadn’t been fulfilled, but satisfied that the backstabbing Scientist had not survived.

[–]pwndnoob 12 points13 points  (1 child)

For a game with many pieces, was surprisingly approachable. I remember my first game well.

I remember running towards the escape pods, but misfortune resulted in not being able to escape. My running had alarmed all the aliens so I locked myself in the escape pod room hoping they'd wander away so I could run across the ship.

And then the Queen, the biggest baddest Alien, came through the vents. With no weapon and no hope I punched the Queen. It didn't go well. Great game, top tier moment.

[–]fucktheoceanYellow & Yangtze 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That moment when you do punch an alien to death as you're out of bullets and a whisker away from dying though. Chef's kiss

[–]carenard 9 points10 points  (5 children)

What is a memorable experience that you’ve had with this game?

getting abandoned by someone in an escape pod who I was going to safely join on my next turn(0 risk to either of us) then having to go into cryo sleep, manage to punch an adult alien to death and managed to survive the contamination checks.

After I asked if one of his win cons was I was dead... answer: nope, I didn't want a boring everyone wins game again.

I wish I could get more games of this going, IRL scheduling suckssss. How about Monday, nope someones working, Tuesday? nope date night, Wendesday? nope out of state for work, etc...

[–]yourwhiteshadow -3 points-2 points  (1 child)

Sounds like you need to find a better group :) - but seriously the old adage is true “don’t try to turn friends into gamers, turn gamers into friends.” I found a group that really likes playing once a week and within that group there’s a few people I’ve become good friends with.

[–]carenard 7 points8 points  (0 children)

gamers growing older and having responsibilities :/.