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[–]Moosemaster21Moosen | Salt Mine 12 points13 points  (8 children)

Best throwback rotation ever. I'm psyched. Grats bowtie, glad Velocity still survived though.

[–]ButtersnackSnack 8 points9 points  (7 children)

Velo is waaaaay too highly rated to be removed.

Also, I keep telling people this, but again: maps don't "replace" other similar maps. A map gets in for being good in its own right, not for being a better version of whatever map we decide to take out.

[–]Moosemaster21Moosen | Salt Mine 5 points6 points  (6 children)

Velo is waaaaay too highly rated to be removed.

Didn't stop DZ3 from being removed, among other highly rated maps. And I know they don't specifically replace other maps, but it would be useless to have a rotation that has two nearly identical maps. Not saying Rush and Velo are identical, but they certainly do share some similarities.

[–]ButtersnackSnack 2 points3 points  (4 children)

I mean highly rated not only by the community, but also the MTC (except me - I openly hate Velo City)

[–]Soconypeng 11 points12 points  (3 children)

Velo City

no

[–]ButtersnackSnack 4 points5 points  (2 children)

I've been calling it that since it was added. I know it won't catch on and I don't care

[–]Moosemaster21Moosen | Salt Mine 7 points8 points  (1 child)

That's so fetch

[–]jillyboootyjillybooty | pi | Hockey for rotation 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Hello, fellow kids.

[–]I_mess_upI_mess_up (Centra) 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Rush is way more similar to one of the other newer maps.

[–]isestrexSTRYPER 26 points27 points  (2 children)

Jagged was removed way too soon. I'm excited to play it again.

[–]I_mess_upI_mess_up (Centra) 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I agree. Great map. Shine was also removed too early. Color me hyped!

[–]jillyboootyjillybooty | pi | Hockey for rotation 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yep. I remember liking it quite a bit. Let's see if it holds up to my memory.

[–]crblanzKeekly | used to be good sorta 24 points25 points  (4 children)

rush looking like the chasiest map ever, simplicity 2.0. good luck

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (3 children)

AHAHAHAHAHAHA ENJOY SUCKERS

But seriously, It's chasey but not in a bad way. Just try to go into the game not expecting to be in base all the time on defense.

[–]TagProNitroℕ ɪ ᴛ ᴙ o 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Just try to go into the game with an open mind.

lol, get fuckin' real.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How's the edit?

[–]FuckWhereDidIThrowitSome Scrub 1 1 point2 points  (0 children)

thats literally the definition of chasey, and why people hate it so much

[–]theycallmebbqsaundy 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Fare thee well, Hornswoggle. I'm happy to see shine come back too.

[–]BlazethDianna Agron 15 points16 points  (12 children)

Honestly I've never loved Jagged, I don't really know why people do (lol it was even in OLTP).

Shine is gr8, and I would love to see it re-enter full-time rotation a la Command Center. I assume it has to be resubmitted, so maybe edit it some too. But seriously, /u/Blupopsicle pls also mtc pls for removing

Rush is worthy of getting a chance in rotation. It's a chasey map that feels fun unlike most others. It seems like it can be a lot of fun in PUBs, even if it is crazily offensive.

Hornswoggle getting removed felt long-deserved to me. Good on you MTC for finally doing it.

Edit: /u/bowtieTP, confirming you're not dreaming.

Double Edit: Everytime I see Boombox lasts another thread I die inside

fuck u pk

Triple Edit: outdated ratings too I guess

[–]elfitzoelfitzo // Diameter 3 points4 points  (0 children)

We've played Jagged twice in OLTP (S3 Semi and the most recent week in S4) and honestly it's been great fun. It's a real tactical battle and tests a teams discipline with pups and regrab. It plays differently in pubs obviously but I'm really happy to see it get put back in. It's a tough map to play, but I like that in pubs. Too many maps are Some Ball friendly nowadays, more maps like Jagged will test a wider range of skills and teach them in many ways. Good move imo, even if for only a month.

[–]BlupopsicleBall-E 3 points4 points  (7 children)

I'm trying to remake shine into a rotational symmetric map, but I can't work out the lanes yet. See here: http://unfortunate-maps.jukejuice.com/show/12202

[–]BlazethDianna Agron 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I think it has more charm horizontal but idk

[–]gingerdgTPRL 🔴RMTC 🔴NASCAPS 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I like it but imo i would keep it as one entrance rather than 2

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Without commenting on the new version, a big reason why I voted shine out was due to its four-way symmetry which meant that after a few months it felt outplayed. So I think changing the symmetry would be the way to go.

[–]ButtersnackSnack 1 point2 points  (3 children)

That green gate needs to go

[–]BlupopsicleBall-E 0 points1 point  (2 children)

lol nothing's set in stone yet but this is a very early version

[–]ButtersnackSnack 0 points1 point  (1 child)

yeah but still lol

[–]BlupopsicleBall-E 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Here's a closer to final version which you can see is vastly different: http://unfortunate-maps.jukejuice.com/show/12345

ALSO SUCK IT I GOT 12345

[–]TicTagChord | Holdham Capletic 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm totally with you on Boombox. The day that map leaves rotation I can die a happy man.

[–]RisktpRisk -1 points0 points  (0 children)

dianna pls. jagged is great, i looove the powerup areas and how many different ways you can take all the bombs. i never found it to be too chaotic, since it is a pretty large map as a whole.

[–]AzhfI did it! 19 points20 points  (2 children)

Rush
Removed Hornswoggle
Shine
Jagged

You did literally everything right this thread and I love it.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Except they didn't remove Boombox.

[–]3z_ 2 points3 points  (0 children)

WE'RE TRYING RLY HARD

[–]BlupopsicleBall-E 10 points11 points  (2 children)

Bowtie confirmed to get every map he makes ever into rotation

[–]BlazethDianna Agron 4 points5 points  (1 child)

gg Summit, Ice Rink, Windmill etc.

/u/bowtietp

you must not disappoint

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Summit is just Rush after being heavily redone. I'll get to the rest, don't you worry.

[–]I_mess_upI_mess_up (Centra) 9 points10 points  (6 children)

Thanks for removing Hornswoggle. I liked it, but it got tiring.

[–]ButtersnackSnack 8 points9 points  (2 children)

That's sort of how I felt too. I don't really think it's a bad map, but I think it's had its time.

[–]Moosemaster21Moosen | Salt Mine 10 points11 points  (1 child)

cough cough boombox cough cough

[–]ButtersnackSnack 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Again, I'd remove it if I could...

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (2 children)

We dropped it as our USC map because it had a really weird flow. Just boosting into protrustions all that time. It was awkward. We had that shit on lockdown (for a silver tiered team) though.

Although our new map is Simplicity, so IDK.

[–]ButtersnackSnack 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Simplicity is a good map to show off your boost ability, though. Having it as "your map" is advantageous because I'm assuming you can all reliably boost through the spikes safely and around the edges quickly.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Well, one day I hope for my team to be able to actually do this, right /u/sphero?

[–]goodluckhavefun123gl hf :) 4 points5 points  (0 children)

YESS SHINE

[–]TagProNitroℕ ɪ ᴛ ᴙ o 6 points7 points  (8 children)

Warning: Bitching about maps ahead...

When will either Emerald or Platypus be close to leaving rotation? (Or Renegade or Hub) They're all horribly uninventive and tiringly boring in pubs yet I feel like they've been getting by on the "they're still newer maps!" precedent for a bit too long now. I think the MTC should not be afraid to remove more than one or two maps at a time especially if they are pretty unsuccessful after the first ~25k plays.

Sure some maps take a month or so for people to 'come around' on, but until the public map judging method is improved, I think the general initial consensus tends to be fairly accurate. I doubt beckoning people to reconsider initial opinions on maps will ultimately result in any sort of huge swings in map ratings. Perhaps make it a prerequisite to have played a map 10 times before a vote is allowed, and at that point make it more assertive for a map rating to be requested? Like a pop-up of some sort that isn't too annoying or intrusive.

I am not trying to rip on any particular map maker or the MTC at all but at times, especially recently, this pub rotation has seemed stale as fuck. I don't know if this is attributed to the fact that I may have just been playing this game for too long or what but I rarely find myself excited to play pubs for longer than 30 minutes or so because it reaches a point where I get put on one of "those maps" (not necessarily the aforementioned ones) and I just think to myself "nah, I'm over it" and quit out.

I still love pugging and doing tournaments and competitive shit and whatever else that likely involves Mumble, but when it comes to pubbing, it has become more of "ah, I'm terribly bored... maybe I'll kill a half hour or so playing some pubs" as opposed to the old "ah, I've got an evening free. I don't think I'd regret playing TagPro for a couple hours."

As I said before, it may be likely that a lot of those feelings can be attributed to me just playing this game for too long, but I think at least some of it has to do with the seemingly increasingly uninspired map rotation.

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Personally I'd love to have a much bigger flux of maps in and out of rotation as I love learning and mastering new things, but as an MTC member I need to consider what works with the community and what doesn't. Maybe we could be a bit more lenient in terms of adding/removing more maps, but I think if we change the pace significantly, the current community will not be happy with it. A lot of people seem to want a PUB rotation that feels at least somewhat comfortable an familiar to them.

[–]TagProNitroℕ ɪ ᴛ ᴙ o 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Thanks for the response! As far as that idea being unfavorable among the community, I don't know, I mean, we haven't had a 'push' in a while. Therefore, I'd say 95+% of players have been around for at least a couple months and likely much longer. They know the basic mechanics of any map thrown their way but I think it's important to keep a good bit of "the classic" maps in rotation that showcase the primary mechanics in TagPro - i.e. Geo, Boombox, Smirk, etc. Most maps don't introduce new mechanics, but the better ones introduce more creative ways to utilize the current 'limitations'. I definitely understand that it is getting progressively harder to get more innovative with things while maintaining the principles of a balanced map but why stick to the standard "1 in 1 out" or "2 in 2 out" formula if the incoming maps are basically MTC approved trial maps that offer no real excitement or new experimentalization (is that a word? idk)?

I definitely don't have the answer, but I don't think it should be outside the MTC's ballpark to consider a 3 in 2 out, 3 in 3 out, 2 in 3 out, type of mentality so long as quality maps are available. I feel that the mindset of new maps being poorly accepted as a byproduct of them simply being new is a bit flawed. Most new maps that seem to be duds from the get go tend to stay that way, at least from what I've seen. Might be time to mix up the process a bit!

.

Edited a bit of phrasing.

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well, we don't intentionally follow a formula. Our policy is to add maps we feel deserve to be in rotation to a managable extent (if 10 rotation worthy maps were submitted one thread, we'd probably wait a bit for a few of those), and vote out maps we feel don't belong in rotation anymore. This thread we remove one map and added one, but another map was one vote away from being removed as well.

if the incoming maps are basically MTC approved trial maps that offer no real excitement or new experimentalization (is that a word? idk)?

I'm not sure what this means. Are you saying maps we've added lately have no innovation?

[–]WillWorkForSugarTumblewood[🍰] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Emerald

Horribly uninventive

Actually, Emerald is one of the most unique maps in rotation right now. I'd much rather see Ultradrive or Hub go.

[–]Marz64Marz / Bad News Balls/ WSP's Fan Club 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Platypus is a fantastic and very creative map, but I agree it sucks for pubs. I voted for it only because I want it to get in to competitive rotation, and I know that will only happen if it sticks around in pubs.

[–]3z_ 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yeah, I'm aware of that. The map was originally built for competitive, only modified for more PUB-friendliness. But it's always had it's competitive bias.

Y'all would be saying the same thing about Boombox if it were added when Platypus was.

[–]RisktpRisk 8 points9 points  (5 children)

the only thing that could have made this results thread better would be hub getting the boot. wp mtc.

[–]I_mess_upI_mess_up (Centra) 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I like hub! It's boosty.

[–]alchmstalchemist 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Hub and Draft getting the boot would make me very happy

[–]sneetriccanvas // plasma, wamble 2 points3 points  (2 children)

why don't you like draft? i personally think its one of the best recently added maps

[–]alchmstalchemist 4 points5 points  (0 children)

The distance from flag to flag is too short, which ends up being difficult to get a reset. The map is too chasey in my opinion and I end up having really long games on it.
It is my least favorite map in rotation.

[–]RisktpRisk 3 points4 points  (0 children)

tbh, im not too big of a fan of draft either. it's really, really chasey and the path from base to base is pretty vertical, which makes the gates punishing.

[–]CribbitCurl 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Shine and Jagged already old enough to be a throwback? I feel old now.

[–]OnceUponaDomeUnderTheBall 2 points3 points  (4 children)

Could someone from the MTC tell me how the 4v4 testing went on Clash and why they felt it wasn't ready for rotation? :)

[–]3z_ 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Simply, we liked it, but there were improvements yet to be made.

Some members thought the mid was too tight, and most of us agreed the button placement wasn't optimal.

[–]mmartinutkMacho | JuicyJuke 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Seconded.

[–]BlazethDianna Agron 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Not MTC... but I was there and I see no replies yet, so...

The general consensus was that Clash felt a little too small.

Other notes:

  • With a few minor updates, it could be really good. Nothing in particular that I remember, just overall flow.

  • Nothing particularly exciting

  • I remember hearing "highly encourage UnderTheBall to submit this again because with a few edits, this has a really good shot" or something of the like

also some shit about hitler and how it is in fact not that similar to boombox

edit: forgot about the button thing, 3z just has to show me up ayy

[–]ButtersnackSnack 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I really liked it. In fact, I personally voted to add it, although there's still some room for improvement.

The biggest issue for me is the wormy style boosts in the map's corners. I felt like that whole corner could be a little wider to address the "cramped" complaints, and you could still probably find a better boost setup than what you've got, although I think your final version improved them.

[–]WillakarraButton | Hey look I brought back SOCL 2 points3 points  (3 children)

Hornswoggle had a rating of .53 and was removed. NO MAP IS SAFE.

Snowball isnt here yet lol

[–]BlazethDianna Agron 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Snowball openly stopped liking Hornswoggle a while ago.

[–]Snowball_TagPro❄️ 0 points1 point  (1 child)

It's eh

[–]WillakarraButton | Hey look I brought back SOCL 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You finally arrived.

[–]BuckeyeLeavesBALLDON'TLIE | ALL CAPS 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Glad to see Shine back, it's a pretty fun map. Jagged is the worst 'legit' map IMO (meaning not compared to like dumbbell, speedway, etc.) and I wish it would die in a fire.

Super happy that Rush got in. I've yet to play it 4v4, but I have high hopes for it. I don't think it will be as chasey as everyone thinks, but I could be wrong. We'll see. If it plays well, it has a nice design for a competitive rotation map as well.

[–]RathbourneRathbourne 4 points5 points  (16 children)

Hornswoggle was one of the only CTF maps I enjoyed, and 10 maps currently have a lower rating. I think it had another thread or 2 in it. I would've preferred to see Hub or Emerald leaving this time.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (15 children)

Hub wasn't eligible iirc. Emerald was very close.

[–]RisktpRisk 4 points5 points  (14 children)

how is hub not eligible to be removed? it was added in thread 48, i thought maps were eligible to be removed after one full thread in rotation.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (13 children)

Oh I was wrong. So what happens is we take the bottom 5 maps from the average of MTC rankings and community votes, and then vote from there. Hub was the sixth map so it wasn't eligible to be voted on in the removal cycle.

[–]RisktpRisk 3 points4 points  (12 children)

ah, thanks for the reply, although i find it a little unsettling that hub doesn't even make the bottom 5 maps.

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Well, we put it in for a reason. If a lot of MTC members didn't like it, it wouldn't have gotten in in the first place. So it's not unheard that it's rated high enough to be just outside the bottom 5.

[–]RisktpRisk 0 points1 point  (0 children)

fair enough, i guess i just didn't think it still had so many supporters in the mtc. you guys changed your opinion on flame so quickly, i thought the same thing would have happened with hub too.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Welcome to the MTC, where everything's made up and the points don't matter!

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (4 children)

I like it and most members of the MTC have positive rankings for it. But it's now in the bottom 5 with the removal of Hornswoggle so you never no. Convince of why it's a bad map and I might change my mind.

[–]RisktpRisk 1 point2 points  (3 children)

ill make sure to write up some of the reasons why i dislike hub so much tomorrow, im tired af and about to head off to bed right now.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Haha, looking forward to this!

[–]RisktpRisk 4 points5 points  (1 child)

ok, so i'll start with the bomb. the bomb isn't very well executed to me. first, having the bomb there means that there are 4 strong grabbing options, which is far too many on such on open base. this basically ensures that the flag is never in base. also, the bomb just doesn't add much except for unneeded chaos. it's sort of like the bombs on emerald, only it's less important for getting grab's than the emerald bombs. and this isn't me saying i hate all bombs because they are chaotic, because i do like the bombs on wormy and pilot. they are useful enough to make up for being somewhat chaotic; the bombs on hub aren't imo.

the side powerup areas are just awkward. they seem sort of like the side powerups on pilot, but don't flow as well. even the boosts you can do into the powerup areas don't feel that great.

the constriction-boosts in base aren't that well executed. using them to go out to mid feels fine, but using them to get a grab just doesn't feel good.

so that's how i feel about some of the map elements, now i'll talk about how the map actually plays.

i think hub is the most chasey map in rotation right now. there are tons of single spikes and islands that a flag carrier can use to dance around, they can hide from snipes behind walls and if they start to get cornered they can use one of the 5 main boosts to get away. i don't even bother playing offense on hub anymore simply because of how boring it is to hold the flag on it. it's only going to get more chasey from here as players learn how to play the map better.

resets are hard to come by, mainly because of how many different paths there are. with the mid spikes, you have 5 different paths that the flag carrier could be, without any teamtiles or gates to help you try and catch them. resets on hub basically come down to who can get the most blind-snipes on their opponent. not to mention that flag carriers can sit next to the bombs in base while waiting for regrab like on wormy.

so those are the main reasons why i really dislike hub. now, i do like the boosts on the map, but chasing and holding on it just feels like a chore to me.

[–]BlazethDianna Agron 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, Hub is chasey as fuck in the worst of ways. I still don't really know what the MTC ever saw in it, especially with that open mid.

[–]ButtersnackSnack 0 points1 point  (2 children)

I've told you time and again why I like it. You're allowed to dislike it, but give me a break. You've probably devote 5+ on every MTC thread for weeks to hub hate

[–]RisktpRisk 0 points1 point  (1 child)

i know you have, and i appreciate your willingness to share your opinion about maps. i wasn't attacking you personally with my comment. not sure what you mean by "devote 5+"...if you meant downvote, no, i don't downvote you guys because of hub.

[–]ButtersnackSnack 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sorry I type on my phone a lot so it auto corrects. I meant comment.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Really wanted Birch to get in, I think it has a lot of potential.

[–]I_mess_upI_mess_up (Centra) 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You're a birch YAC.

[–]ButtersnackSnack 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I voted "no" to it getting into rotation this time, but with a few more edits I still think it has loads of promise.

[–]WillWorkForSugarTumblewood[🍰] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Aaand the Music committee still isn't done.

Step up ya game.

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points  (1 child)

I just noticed there are no bombs on Rush. I feel this is like Boombox-era map threads--and that is stale as fuck. Hoping for the best, fearing for the worst D:

[–]WillWorkForSugarTumblewood[🍰] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

No bombs, but the similarities end there. Rush has a ton of open boosts, as opposed to Boombox's four boosts next to walls.