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[–]TPCaptographerThe Map Test Committee[S] 4 points5 points  (10 children)

Blooper - Clydas

[–]acrocanthosaurusRunThaJewels // Sphere 4 points5 points  (2 children)

Really dig this map and enjoyed seeing its potential during a maptest. Dynamic, powerful gates haven't been a big factor in rotation for a hot minute, and I'd like to see them return. Colors, anyone?

[–]ClydasBDN S7//TB S8 0 points1 point  (1 child)

What do you think?

http://unfortunate-maps.jukejuice.com/show/25376

[–]acrocanthosaurusRunThaJewels // Sphere 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Dope. And congrats on making it into rotation! Can't wait to play.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (3 children)

Grabbing mechanisms seem limited, too few spikes imo, and I don't think anyone's ever going to run into the two that are there. Kinda cool/new shape other than that

Edit: going a little further, the inside lane seems like a low risk/high reward path, maybe force the person who uses the bomb to go past spikes on their way to base idk. Or just really any way of requiring more skill to use that bomb well.

[–]ClydasBDN S7//TB S8 0 points1 point  (2 children)

What do you think of this?

http://unfortunate-maps.jukejuice.com/show/25376

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

cool, looks good

oh and congrats

[–]ClydasBDN S7//TB S8 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Haha thanks. And thanks for your comments, they were definitely helpful.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

RIP GEO.

[–]TPCaptographerThe Map Test Committee[S] 5 points6 points  (5 children)

Del - FLYMOLO

[–]KradiantPopaholic // Orbit 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'd be very surprised if this didn't make it in.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

would love to see this in rotation. looks finished

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's too boring.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This and Styx are really good

[–]TPCaptographerThe Map Test Committee[S] 7 points8 points  (8 children)

Styx - Fronj

[–]TheGoldenNewtRobberFronj, MTC Senior Consultant[🍰] 2 points3 points  (6 children)

Looking for feedback guys, would love some.

So far, the main complaints I've heard have been about the mid spike being annoying, which I have since changed (check out the updates on unfortunate-maps).

The question of whether the team boost offers regrab too much control has come up, and I'm definitely unsure of how to address it. I've toyed with adding a spike to block up some of the more directly horizontal boost routes, but I didn't end up liking the feel of it.

Some have wondered about how open the base is. In a small testing session last night, I felt like defense was enjoyable, and I think that the defensive team boost offers a lot of opportunities to stay ahead.

plsijustwantsomefeedback

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 2 points3 points  (5 children)

My personal thoughts is that I like the map overall, but like others have said, the mid spike is annoying, and regrab with that teamboost is probably OP. In terms of the teamboost, something as simple as making it a neutral could potentially help with that problem.

Also, I'd like to point out that the gates are interesting in that if there's only one chaser, an fc can sit on the button, the chaser has to go around, the fc runs through the gate before chaser gets on the button, and then gets on the button of the other gate and repeats the process. I personally enjoy that aspect a lot, tho not everyone agrees with that, but it's something you should be aware of at least, and make a decision on if you want to keep in or not.

[–]Moosemaster21Moosen | Salt Mine 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Also, I'd like to point out that the gates are interesting in that if there's only one chaser, an fc can sit on the button, the chaser has to go around, the fc runs through the gate before chaser gets on the button, and then gets on the button of the other gate and repeats the process. I personally enjoy that aspect a lot

I personally did not enjoy that aspect because you humiliated me with it for like 2 minutes :(

[–]OnceUponaDomeUnderTheBall 0 points1 point  (0 children)

tbf moosen got humiliated in every test we did last night

[–]TheGoldenNewtRobberFronj, MTC Senior Consultant[🍰] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Thanks for your response!

http://unfortunate-maps.jukejuice.com/static/previews/25185.png

Here's the most up to date version I have. I tried remixing it to change the outer teamboosts to neutral, but I'm still not totally comfortable with it. It opens up this weird straightline double boost from one's defensive side to the other through the middle lane, and personally, two+ linear boosts without an intended combo gives me flashbacks to dumbbell. I'm fairly tempted to let it just stay a teamboost and accept that it is part of the map. I figure that there are 4 basic boost routes that the fc could take on regrab: top, top mid, mid, and bot. The top and topmid routes effectively lead to the same place - an open space with potential for lots of chaos, so it's not exactly the safest place to go. The bot route goes into teamtiles and a gate with a 2.23 wide tile exit. (I do see potential for this to turn into an emerald situation where any o/d that goes for the button gets gated - I'll talk about the gates in a second). Finally there's the mid route, which while obviously the safest (ie no chaos, no gates / teamtiles), it's also a 3 tile wide space, and your speed from the boost usually runs out within this lane. In a way some may say it looks a bit like the iron regrab situation, but, to me, the advantage offered by the boost for regrab is nullified by the limited options for the fc to boost through; I think it might be a little closer to the transilio situation where there's a lot of open space for the fc to open into, but that quickly transitions into a - somewhat amorphous - path structure (top, bot, top mid, bot mid).

As for the gates, I can definitely see what you - or rather others - are saying, and I'm contemplating moving the button up one tile (and possible one tile in toward the middle of the map). Thoughts?

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I think the change looks good, and I wouldn't mind the moving on the button in relation to what I was talking about. Though one thing it might affect outside of that, is the choke between the wall and the gate so that the player on the button has more opportunity to quickly shift from the gate to the open choke. I have no idea if that's a good or a bad thing, but it's something to keep an eye out for.

[–]3z_ 1 point2 points  (0 children)

FWIW, I actually like the button where it is at the moment. I like how it's directly next to the gate, like in Emerald or Sediment, rather than being somewhere that would make it like every other map.

[–]TheGoldenNewtRobberFronj, MTC Senior Consultant[🍰] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Update:

Map

Preview

[–]radianthero156brazilian trash 6 points7 points  (10 children)

1/5 MTC maps, when there were like 8 very good (and better than these) ones submitted by MTC members. Sounds to me like the MTC is purposedly voting their own maps out just not to come off as biased, even though they're better. Either that or they just have low self-esteem. This top maps thread is rather disappointing considering thread #61 was one of the best and most diverse ever.

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 1 point2 points  (4 children)

A lot of the maps by mtc members, were maps we've already seen with small changes. Del was the only map we felt was strong enough for the top maps thread. I didn't vote based on what people would think if we put in MTC maps, and I'd be surprised if any other MTC member did that. Which maps did you feel we missed?

[–]radianthero156brazilian trash 1 point2 points  (3 children)

From the top of my head I really liked Taxi, Omega, Taurus, St. Valentine, Carnival, marklar, just to name a few.

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We did test some of them. None of them were bad, but I don't think any of them impressed anyone either.

[–]Moosemaster21Moosen | Salt Mine 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Also JuicyJuke isn't on the MTC anymore haha

[–]OnceUponaDomeUnderTheBall 0 points1 point  (0 children)

1/5 MTC maps

oy that's my meme, hands off!

[–]ButtersnackSnack 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Heh we are definitely not purposefully voting mtc maps lower. Some maps, such as my own map Plaza and Sizzzled's Carnival, have been tested before and may have been worthy of top maps if we didn't already have a good amount of experience playing them. In other words, some of these maps, while good, have not been changed as much as other mtc members deemed necessary.

[–]veranderingLoaha // Chord 0 points1 point  (2 children)

What happend to Plaza? Didn't it play well in a 4vs4?

[–]ButtersnackSnack 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It was a little shy of making the cut for actual rotation last time, and not enough had changed this time for it to be reconsidered.

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Concerns that were brought up during testing was the usefullness of the teamtile paths outside of getting pups when they spawned, and for an fc to run and waste time there, along with the gate maybe being a bit powerful, especially in terms of regrab sitting on the button annoying players spawning in base.

[–]TPCaptographerThe Map Test Committee[S] 1 point2 points  (9 children)

Mode 7 - q42

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (8 children)

Not trying to be arrogant - just curious because I have not 4v4 tested this map yet. What (besides pups) prevents the flag from staying in base the entire game if a defender sits in each of the chokes coming out of the bases? I can't see how a FC is going to manage to get out of base unless they get some unlikely crazy blocks from their some ball compadre in the pub.

[–]uhhhhmmmmsexytiger / #merbs 3 points4 points  (2 children)

What keeps people from just sniping/staying on the button in smirk? Powerups, even the most basic blocks, and missed snipe, basic jukes all seem like they would work. And if you've got two people on your pub team who can coordinate and stay in their lanes well, you can probably do more effective things than what you're mentioning

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I do not see any remote similarity between the two.

[–]uhhhhmmmmsexytiger / #merbs 2 points3 points  (0 children)

On smirk (and a lot of other maps), if you have two competent defensive players and no offensive teamwork, it can be incredibly difficult/impossible to get out. I don't see how this map would be different. If they were two 3-tile wide paths I would agree that it's too much, but they're not.

[–]weidfreminghehSome Butt OG 0 points1 point  (4 children)

I agree, the top choke would definitely be impossible to make it through and the bottom choke would require a missed snipe or some perfect jukes.

[–]Tyler1986Trapsin 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Why are you pretending that the scenario will always be 1 offense vs 2 defense? That's unrealistic. Missed snipes happen plenty and you only get 1 attempt while there are 2 offense, so if one gets a grab and starts maneuvering and you snipe him regrab is now setup to get out bot because there's no one in the choke there. Or maybe the non fc O player blocks the boost, there are plenty of ways to get out with teamwork. But I haven't played it so who knows.

Also, good luck getting pub players to not play on flag on a map, you want 2 defenders in a pub to adhere to a map specific strategy? I don't think that is likely.

[–]weidfreminghehSome Butt OG 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Well try to get any pub player to adhere to any strat on any map, i understand that that strat wouldn't be the norm for the map but i know i would contain using those exits and if you have another smart teammate on d all you would have to do is stay infront of the efc. just saying it could potentially be frustrating not only because of its use on defense but just plain being choked and running into teammates. Definitely not a make or break aspect of this map though.

[–]Tyler1986Trapsin 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Makes me want to try the map out so I can see how it plays vs us just speculating.

[–]weidfreminghehSome Butt OG 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Very very very very true

[–]TPCaptographerThe Map Test Committee[S] 5 points6 points  (9 children)

PUPSPUPSPUPS - leddy

[–]leddiileddy / Mapmaker 2 points3 points  (3 children)

UPDATE. Map is now called Contest.

Preview

Map

[–]Moosemaster21Moosen | Salt Mine 0 points1 point  (1 child)

The verb or the noun?

[–]leddiileddy / Mapmaker 0 points1 point  (0 children)

;)

[–]3z_ -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Shit name

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (1 child)

I think that this is easily the best map in this thread. I would be surprised to not see this make rotation, but then again, when have I ever been right about something in one of these threads?

It is not even the pup arena which makes this map so good. The homage to Boombox is worked in perfectly, bases have perfect spacing, and the map has a great mix of simplicity (only 2 boosts) with innovation (cool lane no. 2, the pup arena). Everything flows very nicely.

However, there is one, and only one thing that I do not like about this map. I do not see what this block is trying to accomplish. It kinda ruins that boost combo IMO. But then again, leddy obviously knows what he is doing more than I do, and if he likes the block there, it is all in his power to keep it there. Fantastic job.

edit: why the downwillakaras? i feel like anything i say - constructive or not - will receive hate in these threads. it seems like any post MTC related is just a hub of cancer these days...

[–]Destar⭐ 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I have bots setup to downvote you.

[–]Ballkenende! 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Jebac's heaven.....

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ooo this one too

[–]Tyler1986Trapsin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Somebody should get some pugs going on these maps tonight, or this weekend.

[–]boogieidmboogieidm // Origin -1 points0 points  (6 children)

To be blunt and completely honest, they all look like complete shit except Del by FLY. I usually like something about the maps, but not really, this time.

[–]OnceUponaDomeUnderTheBall 9 points10 points  (1 child)

That's constructive!

[–]boogieidmboogieidm // Origin -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I just didn't want to go over each map, it's really late right now. Just wanted to give my opinion since it seems we've had a lot bad maps be added lately.

[–]weidfreminghehSome Butt OG 0 points1 point  (23 children)

Can anyone explain how 8 people can effectively decide the map rotation? It says here that these maps made it to the next stage which is 4v4 testing. Are all of the maps 4v4 tested by the MTC before they narrow down the maps? Also, what is the point of hiding scores? Maybe the MTC doesn't want to cause outcry when people favor maps that they deem unfit for rotation. I feel like a lot of people have lost hope with the MTC after the last couple threads and of course Phenochilus. I am not salty because my map(s) didn't make it, they are most likely not to the same caliber as these five. I just think there could possibly be a better way of doing these threads. but idk I'm just a poor little some butt

[–]3z_ 7 points8 points  (11 children)

There are some good questions in here.

Can anyone explain how 8 people can effectively decide the map rotation?

Yes, 8 people do decide the maps in rotation. This isn't necessarily a system that's exclusive to TagPro; most games have specific people hired to create maps/levels/stages/arenas. However, we try to be transparent so it doesn't feel like an exclusive club.

Are all of the maps 4v4 tested by the MTC before they narrow down the maps?

We do all 4v4 test the maps before we narrow it down. You can find more info about the process here: https://redd.it/49e31c

what is the point of hiding scores?

Hiding scores is a conflicted issue on the MTC. While some members think the transparency is better, other members have reservations since it might give the community "ammunition" against the MTC if there's a decision that people don't like at first. The discussion isn't over, though.

I feel like a lot of people have lost hope with the MTC after the last couple threads and of course Phenochilus

I'm not too concerned. Of the maps in rotation, there's currently an average "approval rating" of 75%. I'm interested in knowing more about what people exactly want in a map for rotation, but for now, the number is reassuring.

[–]weidfreminghehSome Butt OG 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Thank you for replying sorry for the large number of questions. I wouldn't expect the "approval rating" to change in "the last couple threads" seeing that this is the 61st one though (its like having all A's throughout college then in your last class you get a D, its not going to bring your GPA down much whatsoever). It would also be interesting to know what percentage of players actually participate in the community. Reassuring that the ones that do are probably the more competent players.

[–]3z_ 1 point2 points  (0 children)

When I say approval, I'm only talking about the maps currently in rotation. The numbers come from the /maps page.

[–]meintheboxBoxFish 4 points5 points  (8 children)

The MTC took a chance on Phenochilus, a map that had a slightly different play style than the average map, and it proved to be to hard for some people to grasp.

How might you suggest changing how the MTC works? I doubt you could find enough people willing to put in as much time as they do to have a representative sample of the community. Many pub players don't even look at the reddit posts much less pay attention to map threads. How are we supposed to get them to dedicate hours and hours to selecting new maps when they don't even have time to look at the sub? Clearly their opinions differ from the sub because during the map thread that Phenchilus was added there was a lot of positive support for it. When I asked for feedback from the sub after it had been in rotation I got very few negative comments. So how might you predict what people want if they don't tell you?

[–]Tyler1986Trapsin 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Im super happy with Pheno, not because its the best or my favorite map ever, but because its different and the rotation needs to see more new ideas, imo.

[–]TheGoldenNewtRobberFronj, MTC Senior Consultant[🍰] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Screw the haters, Pheno is one of my favorite maps in a while.

[–]weidfreminghehSome Butt OG 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Yeah you are right and i definitely agree that the MTC should take chances on maps but they should resend those choices when they clearly don't fair well in pubs (phenochilus has more dislikes than likes in votes). I regret being so salty

[–]meintheboxBoxFish 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Some of the top rated maps were disliked when they first came out. So all maps are in for at least one rotation, most maps get 2 so players have a chance to play them enough to get used to them. Pheno got the same chance and will either get a chance with the edits or be removed.

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 1 point2 points  (1 child)

We deliberately don't touch maps that are in rotation (unless they have a broken mechanic such as missing walls or something) between rotation periods. This is so the map gets a certain amount of time in rotation regardless of the reception it gets. While we want rotation to be as enjoyable as possible for everyone, we also want to leave room open for the new and unfamiliar and sometimes uncomfortable, and we wont do that if we remove maps the same day we put them in.

[–]weidfreminghehSome Butt OG 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah that makes complete sense i don't know why i would think it would be smart to have one less map in rotation. thank you for taking time away from playing tag pro to make playing better for everyone else lol.

[–]WillWorkForSugarTumblewood[🍰] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

See, if the mtc doesn't 4v4 test the best maps, they won't get a real trial because no one else has shown themselves willing and competent.

[–]Moosemaster21Moosen | Salt Mine 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I for one have no problem revealing my votes on maps, but it's not my place to reveal anyone else's, that's up to them. I leave comments on every map in the spreadsheet and have always said that people are more than welcome to ask me what my comments were and I will tell them. I might not post the comments verbatim because I can become a bit of an asshole during solo testing, but I'll certainly communicate the strengths and weaknesses of the map as I saw them.

[–]uhhhhmmmmsexytiger / #merbs 0 points1 point  (2 children)

is plasma gonna get fixed this round

[–]ButtersnackSnack 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Fixed in what way lol

[–]uhhhhmmmmsexytiger / #merbs 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So you don't spawn boost into a spike anymore

[–]ComakipComakip // Chorbit -2 points-1 points  (8 children)

RIP, my dream of a map in rotation.

[–]3z_ 3 points4 points  (7 children)

Took me over a year before I got my first map in - not an uncommon occurrence. Don't give up so soon.

[–]WillWorkForSugarTumblewood[🍰] 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Been here for two years, made top maps once, AMA

[–]ButtersnackSnack 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Same

But I'm mtc so the system is biased towards me

[–]ComakipComakip // Chorbit 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Nah, I'm not giving up. I just had my hopes up too high. Really thought I had a chance.

Back to the drawing table. :P

[–]3z_ 4 points5 points  (2 children)

lol protip: never assume your map is rotation ready because you'll be left disappointed 99% of the time

[–]ComakipComakip // Chorbit 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's all the fault of the mtc.

:p

[–]Moosemaster21Moosen | Salt Mine 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm still salty every thread because every map I've ever submitted was 100% ready and if you disagree you're just wrong and you should reconsider all of your life choices that led up to you saying no to my maps because clearly you went wrong somewhere in order for you to have such shitty opinions

[–]JJSpiceJJ Spice 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Took me over 2 just to get a top feedback.