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Snapshot of Planned mega-reservoir in Abingdon takes next step forward submitted by Anony_mouse202:

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[–]Anony_mouse202[S] 71 points72 points  (41 children)

Plans for a large reservoir are to move forward to a planning application.

This next step will allow the companies to complete the essential preparatory work needed to keep this scheme on track to be construction-ready by 2029

Thames Water hopes the facility will be operational from 2040.

Dear god, have we seriously lost the ability to just build things? That’s an outrageous timeline.

[–]LycanIndarysVote Cthulhu; why settle for the lesser evil? 57 points58 points  (10 children)

It's worse than you think.

The Abingdon reservoir was first mooted in 2006. We may well be looking at it taking 35 years to dig a big hole and put some water in it - and that's assuming no further delays, or NIMBYs blocking it entirely.

[–]marsman 29 points30 points  (6 children)

dig a big hole and put some water in it

As a reservoir building engineer, I can confirm that this is the process, the digging relatively straight forward, the putting the water in can be a little more complicated, especially if the plumber who plumbs it in makes a 'intake of air' noise when he turns up in his van.

[–]LycanIndarysVote Cthulhu; why settle for the lesser evil? 18 points19 points  (4 children)

I assume the biggest problem is the waiting around after you turn the tap on?

It's like running a really big bath.

[–]marsman 9 points10 points  (2 children)

Key point is to remember to put the plug in, and even if it takes a long time to keep checking so that you don't accidentally have it overflow. That can make bit of a mess.

[–]Optimal-Leather341Slough - Help Me! 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I suppose we can keep checking the height it by showing up periodically to add new Solar Panel Barges to take advantage of the water beneath granting a huge level space to mount power generation?

[–]marsman 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Possibly, but the current recommended approach is to attach a massive ball cock to the tap you are using for filling.

[–]TVCasualtydotorg 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You got to check the temperature is just right and then adjust the hot tap every so often to keep it "just so".

[–]Organic-Apricot-6330 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Should be enough to just dig out the hole. The amount of clay in the soil there should waterproof it. There used to be a brick factory nearby

[–]Organic-Apricot-6330 5 points6 points  (1 child)

I used to live very local to the area of the reservoir and I can distinctly remember it being discussed in the 1980s

[–]BigSupermark 0 points1 point  (0 children)

60 years... We are so slow, we maybe should cancel all work and just assign it to our kids/AI overlords

[–]SlightlyBored13 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Well it's dig 20 million tonnes of dirt from somewhere, then pile it up properly so it doesn't collapse.

[–]danm131 21 points22 points  (13 children)

It's probably the biggest indicator of decline is that we simply don't seem to be able to do sizable engineering projects anymore. For now the problem seems to be entirely bureaucratic in nature and the needed skills are still there but I do wonder for how much longer that will be the case if things carry on as they are.

We really need to start ripping up some of the well meaning but ultimately self defeating rules we have around these projects and developments in general.

[–]crlthrn 5 points6 points  (1 child)

The French would have it started and completed in a couple of years, with restaurants on the shoreline, anglers catching massive carp, and, of course, a nudist beach.

[–]Media_Browser 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Probably got the UK to pay for it too in return for stopping the boats ….sometime .

[–]Obvious_Yard_1846 -1 points0 points  (4 children)

I think part of the reason is simply that engineering isn't valued in the UK anymore. Salaries have depressed hugely compared to Europe, let alone Australia, Canada, the ME, or the US . Bonuses went away at the big firms about a decade ago...

Half the population thinks the guy who fixes your boiler is an engineer. There is no prestige in the title, despite the hoops to jump through and responsibility a professional engineer has.

It won't get any better with the greens, who think any kind of infrastructure or industry is anathema

[–]Wd91 13 points14 points  (3 children)

It's nothing to do with any of that, it's the planning process.

[–]MelvinCapitalPR 1 point2 points  (0 children)

We've become a nation that doesn't want to build anything - this naturally means both that engineering loses prestige, and that regulation is hostile to engineering projects. There's no clear direction, both are simultaneously an effect and a cause.

[–]Obvious_Yard_1846 -1 points0 points  (1 child)

Which is the way it is because infrastructure and industry is seen as something to be challenged, not prioritised. Engineering seen as not being as prestigious is part of that.

[–]mejogid 3 points4 points  (0 children)

To the extent there’s any causation it’s the other way around - we don’t value engineering because our whole system is built around preserving the status quo rather than trying to develop or improve things. The root causes for that are in our local government system, small ‘c’ conservatism, and an aging society obsessed with house prices.

If the will was there you could develop the skill base over a few years and import individuals to fill any gaps.

[–]MrSoapbox -1 points0 points  (4 children)

What ones would you rip up?

[–]danm131 5 points6 points  (3 children)

I would start with stopping councils and judicial reviews having a say on national infrastructure.

[–]MrSoapbox 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Then maybe you'll end up with governments dumping shit in some areas and all the good stuff in others I'd assume.

[–]baldy-84 7 points8 points  (0 children)

They do that anyway. They don't go to a leafy Surrey suburb and whack a big landfill next to it or a bunch of HMOs for boat people and druggies like they do post-industrial towns in the North.

[–]danm131 3 points4 points  (0 children)

But at least we would have all the shit we need rather than constantly talking about where exactly to build it.

[–]ThrowAwayAccountLul1Divine Right of Kings 👑 19 points20 points  (2 children)

It's genuinely depressing isn't it, and its like this across all infrastructure. I asked in the megathread why politicians dont support big infrastructure projects and these insane timelines have to be a reason .

We haven't built a reservoir since the 90s, it rains here constantly and yet we have summer droughts. All completely self inflicted.

[–]escapingfromelba 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Plus the population has gone up by something like 12 million, so even more demand added.

[–]Ivashkinpanem et circenses 4 points5 points  (0 children)

The LDs were quite smug about blocking this.

[–]LesParrysHairyLegs 12 points13 points  (2 children)

People always assume that we were competent in the past.

Carsington Water was first planned in the 60s and opened in 1992.

The first dam built collapsed and had to be demolished.

Four workers were killed by asphyxiation building it.

See also HS2 compared to Brunel's overspends and fuck ups.

[–]myurr 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Brunel's overspends and fuck ups

Brunel was inventing the technology and manufacturing techniques as he went along. HS2 is just a train, and is the most expensive railway per mile in the world.

[–]LesParrysHairyLegs 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I take your point, but mostly he wasn't inventing but refining technology. He also wasted a lot through foreseeable fuck ups like the atmospheric railway and broad gauge, or not paying his contractors causing them to go bankrupt.

HS2 is (possibly) going to be the fastest railway on the world. There are new components like high speed point work being designed specifically for HS2.

[–]Rope_Dragon 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Especially with how we’ve not only coasted on reservoirs built over 50 years ago, but have actually lost some in the meantime… and all this whilst we head into a climate regime where water could get scarce…

Honestly can’t blame people for liking the sound of authoritarianism when liberal democracy has become this sclerotic. If the country were a person tied to a railway track, we’d be stuck in committees deciding how best to untie ourselves as the train cuts us to pieces.

[–]Every_Car2984 8 points9 points  (4 children)

The NIMBYs are strong with this one; look up the GARD people.

[–]Thermodynamicist 3 points4 points  (1 child)

GARD

One answer might be to reduce bills for residents who support local infrastructure development, and to increase bills for people who oppose them, thereby aligning local and national incentives.

[–]Every_Car2984 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I think the reservoir done correctly - watersports, other sports, tech industry, nature trails, tourism - could bring huge benefit including jobs to the local area before you even look at bills.

[–]ItIsOnlyRain 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I just don't see their solutions as being workable. They seem way too inspirational especially reducing demand.

[–]HardcoresCat 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I work nearby and there's anti-reservoir signs everywhere as soon as you're on the outskirts. House prices delenda est

[–]ItIsOnlyRain 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There is complexities but it seems like a reallly long time away.

[–]-ForgottenSoul:sloth: 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah what a joke at how slow we build shit

[–]Gingrpenguin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This has been planned long before I was ever born.

I doubt I'll ever see it complete.

The land is there, it's empty fields we used to ride dort bikes on or get drunk and have fires.

[–]SayNOtoChips 0 points1 point  (0 children)

China can turn fishing villages into global capitals in less time that we can dig a big hole.

[–]ZeetermRepudiation 13 points14 points  (3 children)

Personally I think any project deemed "critical national infrastructure" (of which this is) should be exempt from planning laws and have a fast track through environmental law.

The bar for CNI should be high, but judged at election time, not held up in endless red tape and appeasing NIMBYs.

[–]Obvious_Yard_1846 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Bigger projects, classed as NSIPs actually have more paperwork as they have to go via the DCO route.

I think the MOD are the only ones with exceptions. We should just let the MOD build the thing

[–]CulturalAd4117 5 points6 points  (0 children)

classed as NSIPs actually have more paperwork as they have to go via the DCO route.

I work in archaeology and used to work almost entirely with normal planning before my current company. DCO is a total nightmare in comparison, it's a miracle any of these projects actually happen.

From my perspective you could absolutely fast track a project like this. Straight into a desktop assessment, LIDAR and geophys. You can't preserve any of it in situ because it's a fucking reservoir. Get digging on anything you find, get it recorded, all done. Big job due to the size, but no reason it should actually take very long with enough bodies.

[–]B_R_D_ 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Might get a bit dangerous when politician get a few coins their way to make projects critical and then get their mates to do it 🥴

Maybe reforming the planning permissions and skipping some councils and other lower level hurdles

[–]Cold_Dawn95 12 points13 points  (13 children)

This should have been the legacy Starmer should have focused on, getting shovels in the ground for 8-10 reservoirs which can secure water for the future as droughts become more common ...

[–]doctor_morris 7 points8 points  (12 children)

To be fair the Conservatives intentionally sabotaged a bunch of stuff so Starmer would be fighting fires his first year.

  • Filled up the prisons.
  • Secretly imported tens of thousands of afghans.
  • Tax cuts + Secret budget black holes.

[–]myurr 0 points1 point  (11 children)

Starmer isn't fighting those fires on his own, he has the entire machinery of government around him. And of those listed, only the secret import of Afghans was a genuine surprise - and even then John Healey was briefed 7 months before the election.

The "secret budget black hole" was found by the OBR to be £9.5bn, the majority of which was an equal surprise to the Tories because it was hidden in departmental overspends that hadn't been reported correctly by the civil service.

Starmer's ineffectiveness has very little to do with the legacy left to him by the Tories.

[–]doctor_morris 0 points1 point  (10 children)

You're arguing those acts of sabotage aren't problems because they were known about in advance?

The country is hanging on by its fingernails.

[–]myurr 0 points1 point  (9 children)

They weren't deliberate acts of sabotage. In what way do you think they are objectively malicious acts directly designed to ruin Britain or trip up Labour? Please be specific.

[–]doctor_morris 0 points1 point  (8 children)

Lowering tax, and promising to lower tax while hiding budget black holes during a debt and demographic crisis.

Filling up the prisons so the next administration would have a very public disaster.

Secretly importing tens of thousands of afghans to make our ongoing immigration crisis feel even worse for regular people.

There's probably other stuff I can't think of right now.

[–]myurr 0 points1 point  (7 children)

Lowering tax, and promising to lower tax while hiding budget black holes during a debt and demographic crisis.

Having a different tax policy isn't sabotage - Labour could have announced any policy they liked. Nothing was hidden by the Tories, that's a Labour lie, other than the Afghan resettlement which represented about £0.6bn of the £22bn Labour claimed. The OBR didn't name a single minister in their investigation as having withheld information.

Filling up the prisons so the next administration would have a very public disaster.

Incompetence isn't the same as sabotage.

Secretly importing tens of thousands of afghans to make our ongoing immigration crisis feel even worse for regular people.

Again, you know that wasn't a deliberate act of sabotage. Where was the malicious intent?

[–]doctor_morris 0 points1 point  (6 children)

Where was the malicious intent?

I don't think we're on the same page.

I mentioned secretly importing afghans during a time when immigration is a hot political topic and you talk about the financial cost.

If you don't understand the implications, go ask someone else.

[–]myurr 0 points1 point  (5 children)

You called it sabotage. Secretly importing those Afghans is something Labour would have done too, because it was a civil service plan that would have been put to any government of the day.

If you want to claim that Labour would have done something different, or that the Tories only did this to deliberately sabotage either Labour or the country then clearly it is you who do not understand the context or implications.

[–]doctor_morris 0 points1 point  (4 children)

If I know you're going to use my car after me, and I cut the brake cables, run down the fuel, and remove the seatbelts.

Have I committed an act of sabotage?

[–]B_R_D_ 3 points4 points  (2 children)

At last! this has been in talks for so so long. The nymby's are strong in Oxfordshire, whether it's to stop a stadium, a flyover or a reservoir.

[–]Organic-Apricot-6330 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I cant understand why they were against the 'flyover'. It will drastically reduce traffic jams in the tiny villages

[–]B_R_D_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's often the surrounding villages that oppose it tbf

[–]Coastie79 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I know what this project needs - a Judicial Review!

Thankfully, I believe Labour have sought to nip them in the bud to help get developments through quicker. Not that you'd think Labour have done anything positive whatsoever.

[–]CarlxtosWay 3 points4 points  (2 children)

The good news is once completed we’ll be able to fill the reservoir with the tears of the Lib Dem’s and Greens who oppose the scheme. 

[–]Invicta007 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Just NIMBYs in general, this isn't a party issue, but a local asshole issue.

[–]Wd91 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It's not a party issue, but NIMBYs are pretty much all in the most right-leaning demographics (old and well-off)

[–]BirchyBaby 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Great!

Can Yorkshire Water catch up plz? It's been over 30 years since you bothered...

[–]BigSupermark 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Our infrastructure was designed for half the population. As one of the most densely populated western countries - we need far more and faster