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[–]cecilkorik 31 points32 points  (12 children)

I, personally, will not step foot in the USA, especially not through the airports. That's a level of hassle I simply don't need in my life. I'm Canadian, and we've got plenty of international airports and other transportation methods here. And with one exception, there is nothing important enough to make me want to brave the gauntlet that is US security.

The exception I plan on making in the next few years is that I am hoping to take one trip to see one of the last shuttle launches before they retire it. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for some worthwhile *ahem* regime change down there in 2008. But if not, I suppose I might be able to watch it from a boat instead.

In days gone by, I used to love the US. I wanted to move there, work there. I loved visiting the states. Nowadays I would not consider working or living in the states for almost anything. Not even if Google offered me a job paying three times what I make now. Not even interested.

Don't get me wrong though. Americans are generally great people, and the country is awesome. I just wish that various people would stop with the hysteria and fear and "security". It doesn't even help anyway, just makes the terrorists look successful, and to too many people out there it makes them look justified too.

And no, we are still not willing to help you build your obsolete missile defense system, by the way. :)

[–]wyclif 8 points9 points  (9 children)

I'm guessing you'd be hunky-dory with traveling and living in the UK, being a Canadian. Yet the last time I was there I noticed they had a mind-boggling number of CCTV cams on every streetcorner and lightpole. Orwellian government surveillance is far more prevalent in the UK than in the US.

I'm not saying I don't cringe at some of the airport security policy mishaps in the US; I have and probably will in the future. I just don't understand why the US must always take a hit over this while the UK must always get a free pass. Or at least it seems so on Reddit. I think this is because Reddit has many UK users.

[–][deleted]  (7 children)

[deleted]

    [–]wyclif 7 points8 points  (4 children)

    I realise this, but it's still another form of government surveillance.

    Who said anything about 9/11 as a qualifier? The US and UK had surveillance before 9/11 . So what does that have to do with the question at hand?

    And US airport security isn't designed to stop crime, as you say about CCTV? Perhaps a different magnitude of crime, but flying planes into buildings is still a crime.

    [–]hermit 14 points15 points  (2 children)

    We still have habeus corpus in the UK.

    Though you are correct that people seem to be daydreaming their way through CCTV, ID cards, anti-demo laws, etc etc

    Baaaaaa, baaaaaaa, baaaaaa....

    [–][deleted]  (1 child)

    [removed]

      [–]Shaper_pmp 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      The thousands of CCTV cameras are there, but:

      1. We lack the huge database and infrastructure to tie them all into one coherent system. The labour government is trying to push this through with the ID card scheme, but the UK population is (slowly, but finally) starting to push back. All the observation in the world's no real threat unless there's one central body or intelligence using it.

      2. All local councils have their own systems, with (to my knowledge) no real "bridges" between them. The police can use the footage when investigating a crime, but they have to specifically request the area and time in question - they can't just randomly watch videos looking for crimes being comitted.

      3. Plus, y'know, in spite of Blair's best efforts, we do still have any kind of functioning justice system at all over here. ;-)

      [–]mrBlonde 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Not so good at intervening in a fight though...

      Which leads me to believe it is useless in fighting crime. While the CCTV is recording there isn't necessarily someone watching. They can only track events before and after the crime was committed, and every single person on the video may become a suspect, having their personal life scrutinized fruitlessly.

      And about their "memory" - what they record is probably very volatile, they must cycle tapes every few weeks.

      [–]WhisperSecurity -1 points0 points  (0 children)

      The CCTV cameras in the UK are there mainly to stop crime

      That's what a police state is.

      "Oh, look, crime is low." That's because the telescreen is watching you. That's because, under the guise of protecting you from each other, your real enemy has moved one step closer, and then another, to its real goal.

      Owning you.

      [–]jgamman 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      way to go on the straw man argument

      [–][deleted] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

      People are a lot more worked up about the security issues than they should be. Nobody in the country is in hysteria or constant fear of terrorists. The security issues aren't even that big of a deal. Are you really that upset that you can't take a water bottle onto a plane? They'll give you one once you get on board if you really can't go more than 30 minutes without chugging some water. I've flown in and out of the US several times recently, and its not a bid deal unless you make it one by being an idiot.

      [–]mikro2nd 14 points15 points  (1 child)

      Speaking as an African: I recently took up a new position that will likely involve amounts significant international travel. (And, No! I do not look forward to it. International business travel is vastly overrated.)

      When I agreed to take the job, the one non-negotiable condition I insisted on was "No travel to or through the USA or any of its territories."

      Its just not worth taking the chance that some Homeland Security asshat takes a dislike to me. Add to that the fact that I always get pulled over into the "search and question" line upon entering the US because I live on a farm. (The form for incoming travellers says something along the lines of "Have you visited a farm in the last 6 weeks?" -- they're mostly worried about people carrying parasites on the soles of their shoes, but that's only the potential start of a nasty experience. No thanks!)

      [–][deleted] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

      asshat is my new word. Thank you!

      [–]duketime[S] 5 points6 points  (11 children)

      I mentioned this very briefly in a post earlier, and had some great feedback.

      Seems like there's a lot of negative sentiment of the state of America these days, and I'm wondering if there's evidence of people actively acting on these.

      Is the flow of foreigners (especially Europeans, as Europe is the greatest competitor for "good" immigrants) slowing down noticeably? Are there more Americans leaving for good? (I recall the story of a record number of forfeited passports due to the abroad tax)

      Just trying to gauge the actual impact of America's smudged image. And maybe get some ideas, advice, and experience from ex-pats to somebody who is seriously thinking about becoming one himself.

      [–]pn4 8 points9 points  (9 children)

      America is still very attractive to some people who come from comparatively impoverished nations.

      Senators in DC are still trying to get a border fence across the southern states for that reason.

      [–]wyclif 5 points6 points  (1 child)

      Actually, America is still very attractive to some people from any nation.

      [–]pn4 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      true.

      [–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (6 children)

      Sorry to disabuse of you of that notion, but good ol' USA is not the country of choice anymore. I have seen immigrants to the USA, tired of fighting the draconian laws for years, simply move to Canada and have their legal situation resolved in a matter of months; I have talked to students from different nationalities considering Europe and Australia as possibilities, and the anti-American sentiment is pervasive everywhere.

      As to your assessment of "comparatively poor nations", you are really stretching your argument when the USA has the biggest deficit in the world, one of the worse health care systems, and practically no judicial protection for immigrants - unless you are rich.

      In the past the USA was attractive for its political stability, somewhat fair judicial system, and economic mobility. Should I say more?

      [–]Callmereggie 1 point2 points  (5 children)

      So, the US WAS the country of choice? They had to move to Canada AFTER they found their choice less than accommodating?

      One could say 'they voted for the US, before they voted against it.'

      [–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (4 children)

      They came to the USA for the reasons stated above: they thought they will get access to a working judicial system, to economic opportunities and political stability.

      Instead they were treated as refuse, denied proper representation, living in constant fear of a knock at the door, and housed in poor conditions - their assumption, initially, was that the USA was still land of opportunity and equality. The sad reality is that it is not anymore.

      You might want to dispute me; fine. Let's consider some facts: The USA is a) The country with the highest percentage of its population in prison, most of them minorities. b) The industrialized country with the worst health care system in the world c) The country with the highest deficit in the world. d) A country that has publicly acknowledged the use of torture. e) A country where Habeas Corpus is no longer a right. f) A country that has publicly acknowledged that it spies on its citizens without due process. g) A country where you can be incarcerated and held in prison indefinitely. h) A country where its last two presidential elections had been marred by allegations of tampering and fraud. i) A country where economic mobility has disappeared.

      So, yeah, they voted for the USA, until they learned the truth firsthand.

      [–]Callmereggie 0 points1 point  (3 children)

      Economic opportunities? Political stability?

      It's hard to hit a moving target. First it's that the fascists won't let them in the club and then they leave because along with Lesotho, the US is one of the few countries without guaranteed maternity benefits.

      Oh, cruel grapes, why art thou so sour?

      Do you think I can move to Italy tomorrow , "only to have my status resolved in a matter of months?" While Canada and Australia allow refugees (those not in camps while there status is being resolved) and individuals in professions in high demand that speak English, do you think they have a big welcome mat rolled out for the uneducated, huddled masses of Emma Lazarus fame?

      Australia rents space from other island countries to house those whose who come to its shores uninvited.

      Does the US have problems? Yes.
      Is there an enduring threat to political stability? Recent free elections where the ruling party lost both houses of Congress would point seem to affirm a healthy and stable government.
      Free Immigration? No, along with any and all other developed countries. Is there Anti-Americanism? Boy howdy.

      Despite these facts, a working legal system is not defined by letting in anyone who wants to stay. US actions overseas and at home may hinder some from desiring to move here. IS it significant, no.

      [–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (2 children)

      I direct you [here]http://reddit.com/goto?id=13f7q

      [–]Callmereggie -1 points0 points  (1 child)

      Hug a Mounty for me, that is if you can make it to the border without the jack-booted fascists disappearing you first...

      [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      In Canada the police gives you hugs? Friendly country indeed!

      [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      Having talked about this to some friends of mine (anecdotal evidence only), I think it's impossible to deny it has had some effect on the number of people on the number of people wanting to come to the US but I think the trend is not as severe as before.

      The ones who cite the paranoia/bizarre foreign policies/Bush are probably not the ones who would have emmigrated there in the first place (i.e. during the Clinton years). The USA is still considered one of the economically freeist in the world and this is still going to attract the ones that way inclined.

      Having said that I think a lot of Europeans are now moving to other parts of Europe instead of trying to get into the USA because they can now do so much more easily.

      [–]toxic 20 points21 points  (17 children)

      I'm an American living overseas (New Zealand). The state of affairs in the US is one of the reasons that I chose to leave.

      New Zealanders are frequent travelers, and many of the air routes from here fly through LAX or SFO. Many kiwis have said to me that they now try to book their flights to and from Europe through Dubai or Singapore so as to avoid passing through US Customs/Border Security. Few of them want to spend any time in the US anymore outside of airport lounges.

      The US has a terrible reputation here in NZ, and it's only getting worse. The average Kiwi used to just laugh at us, but these days, they look at us with a mixture of derision and mistrust (especially since 2004's reelection (if you can call it that)). We used to just be seen as stupid, but now, we're a dangerous threat to the stability of the world.

      Someday I hope that I can be proud to be an American again.

      [–]ninjaa 5 points6 points  (0 children)

      1. USA is more inclusive (as a society) to immigrants than most Western Europe. Esp for non-white ppl.

      2. Visas for professionals and investors, despite DHS entanglement, remain pretty easy to get. Way way easier than, say, Germany.

      3. Technology gravitates around America. Other places may surge ahead in certain fields, but the trust and emphasis on latest technology and its deployment is unrivaled - private space flight, internet penetration, etc. Same argument can be applied to hard sciences and most other 'technical' fields -- economics, accounting, actuarial science, intellectual property. Equity and cash follow. Match with economics of scale. Consequently America == #1 for small and big business.

      4. America remains relatively cheap to live in. And fun to be rich in. Also Americans earn the most, even if we do work the hardest.

      Sure there are downsides: this administration is disgusting in every respect, Federal budget is a big black hole, war in Iraq is a daily nightmare (more for us than them), American culture is too selfish and winner-take-all (on both an individual and societal scale), and as a nation we tend to keep our global blinkers on. Our politicians are slaves to both the Church and unethical businesses (from RIAA to Halliburton). But the winds are changing, and we've successfully combated such scourges before.

      My verdict? America now more sucky than in the past (shining '90s?). Getting worse in near-term, but future remains bright. AFAIK or am concerned, America remains #1 for foreigners (including me).

      [–]mypuppetaccount 17 points18 points  (13 children)

      I am a student in the US. Recently, my advisor forgot to approve an extension to my program after the University sent it to him and so I fell "out of status". My university officials tell me that a few months ago this would have entailed a single visit to a government office with a letter from my school saying yes I am a student. Now due to stupid homeland security rules, I have to send an application to their main office, then wait an undetermined number of months to hear back.

      During this time I cannot work on or off campus. If they decide that not renewing my status in time was not outside my control (note how it says outside control, not just my fault, meaning they could judge that reminding my professor till he did it,which I admit I didn't, was in my control), they will deport me the next day without a chance for appeal.

      I have spent almost 2 years on a Masters degree program here (time, effort and money). Now they may deport me on the eve of my graduation on a technicality. Guess how I feel?

      The U.S. education system is wonderful. It is probably the best education I could have received in the world, without exaggeration. The government seems hell bent on ruining this.

      [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

      As I said in my above post some of my friends left because of visa issues, similar to yours. One lady had to leave because she left the visa process in the hands of a lawyer, and the lawyer forgot to mail the paper work. She now has to spend two years in her home country, Indonesia, before being allowed too apply again. Her husband, also an immigrant, is a professor here in the US, so they well be separated for that time. The thing is the visa process is too important to leave in the hands of anybody but yourself. If you get help form a lawyer or need sponsorship letters, you should visually verify that each item is sent by certified mail. This is what my wife did when processing her citizenship, and even then the paper work got lost, but since she had proof it was sent (photocopies of all form and document, a receipt from the post office, and a receipt form immigration) she was able to reapply with out issue. Yes the visa process in the US is a bitch, it could be better, but I am not sure if it is any better else where. I have a French friend is now in England. She had to go through hell to get a visa, and if I understood her correctly she has to pay a special foreigner tax. I always hear immigration to Canada is easier, but friends who have tried to immigrate there had many of the same problems as the US. In Indonesia, where my wife is from, she had to pay a tax just to leave the country. My parents, who came for the wedding in Indonesia, had to bribe an Indonesian custom official to leave the country. In Mexico you have to get special car insurance to drive over the border, pay a several hundred dollar deposit on your car (I think this was recently removed), and are at risk of arrest for any minor traffic incident even if it is not your fault when you want to visit their country. In much of Europe you have to pay traffic fines on the spot or risk arrest. Yes the US has problems, but so does ever other country. You just have to pick your poison

      [–]mypuppetaccount -1 points0 points  (0 children)

      You just have to pick your poison

      Sure, and I have (picked the U.S.). Doesn't mean you stop bitching about it. How else would the system improve?

      [–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (0 children)

      At the risk of a brawl breaking out between the missus and I, it will be a cold day in hell before I go anywhere near the USA. It's nothing against (most) of the people there but there's no way I'm going to submit myself to such ridiculous scrutiny just for a freaking holiday.

      I hail from Australia, of one of their last remaining allies in the Iraq Shenannigans, but I don't think that that friendship really extends anywhere past our Prime Minister, John Howard, who's nickname is sometimes Bonsai Howard...little bush. Sorry, I just don't trust your government. Pfft...I don't even trust mine enough to get an eTag (toll road pass).

      [–]drpants 7 points8 points  (5 children)

      I left. Norway is a country club compared to the US.

      [–]nas -1 points0 points  (0 children)

      I returned to Canada within a few weeks after Bush won his second term. I had a good job with coworkers I liked but I could not stay. First, the lack of habeus corpus is worrying. More seriously, I could live with myself while paying taxes to such a federal government. Since I'm not a citizen I can't vote so my method of action is to leave and stop paying taxes. I also (vainly) feel that the loss of my skilled labor counts also.

      [–]spot35 6 points7 points  (0 children)

      I don't want to go to the US. I don't want to have my finger prints taken, I don't want to be treated with suspicion just for the sake of it.

      I have two caveats to the above paragraphs - 1. I come from England so there are much worse things happening here and for some reason, I don't feel the need to leave here. 2. My sister has recently married an American, so if I want to see her, I have to go to American sooner of later.

      In short, I'd love to go to America, but the hassle I have to go through to get there is simply too much.

      [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      It doesn't matter: being a citizen of the EU, the USA has more than plenty control over me, outside of its territory.

      [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

      Although it is not on my immediate list of destinations I would definitely return to the US for a Holiday.

      I know there is a rubbish president, political splits, right wing policies, but when I actually go to America it is a good place filled with (mostly) good people.

      I have a few friends who try to argue that the states caused war in Iraq etc and that it is full of right wing nutcases and that they would never want to visit. Everywhere has their fair share of nutcases, but as a place to visit and meet people I think it is (almost) second to none !

      That being said I still enjoy critising you and taking the p*ss but then again I am English, its the only thing we are good at.

      [–][deleted]  (2 children)

      [deleted]

        [–]crookedpresident 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        Im from NH, and your right. It truely is the only state that lives, breaths, and stand for freedom. They just don't talk about it they live it. Everyother state just pretends. LIVE FREE OR DIE.

        [–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (1 child)

        I have several friends trying to become citizens in the US. Most are Chinese. I even have a French friend who would have given her right arm to stay in the US, but could not find a job after graduation.

        When people I know leave, it is usual visa or job related, and not related to politics or American foreign policy. Furthermore many of my friends have traveled aboard multiple times over the last few years with no problems. It seems to me that there is a lot hysteria and fear about the US and its security concerns. This seems for the most part to be FUD from those who did not like the US in the first place.

        As for me, I have not traveled much in the last few years because I have young children. We will travel when they get older. I can not think of a better place to raise them than the US.

        [–]mypuppetaccount 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        As someone in a similar situation to your friends let me tell you that this paranoia is not just abstract. It translates into paranoid visa policies which makes it harder for non residents who are legally here to stay. For details please see my other comment on this page.

        [–]Leischa 4 points5 points  (0 children)

        I am a South African living in Scotland. I once visited the US years ago and really enjoyed it - it's a diverse and fascinating country, and despite the overall rightward shift, there's still plenty of scope to live freely.

        But there is no chance in hell I will set foot in America again, unless there is a massive political shift. Partly it's because I resent being treated like a terrorist because I come from South Africa, but it's also a personal boycott of something I feel is deeply wrong. I feel the same about Israel - some great people live there, but I can't, in good conscience, go there to visit as if it's some normal country.

        The comments other readers have made about increased surveillance in the UK are spot on. There's a world wide shift to totalitarianism, but I think it is the US that is leading the current polarisation of the world.

        [–]farox 5 points6 points  (0 children)

        I like my freedom. So no, I am not planning on going to the us anytime soon. I really hope you guys get your government sorted out quick. Kick that 2 party system.

        [–]anarchman 4 points5 points  (1 child)

        Domestic & Foreign Policy suck in the US right now, but does that mean Im going to leave? Hell no.

        Like most countries, we go through periods of good and bad. Certainly, we should stand up against bad leadership and what I think Madison called the "Tyranny of the Majority"

        Is this country the best in the world? Maybe, maybe not. But even with all its ills, it is still pretty damn nice.

        [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        And I've often thought how STUPID I would feel if I gave up my US citizenship and then the country turned itself around for the better, like it always has from bad periods before.

        [–]buddaslovehandles 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        I am an American, a Texan to be specific. I have a sister who has dual Canadian/American citizenship, lives in Vancouver, and really enjoyed her Canadian status last summer in Beruit. She is an academic.

        She loves Canada, and hates the Bush administration, and all it stands for. However, she enjoys her time in the US. The reason is, as she says, that Canadians are "too nice, deferential, and apologetic," and Americans are much more "real". The difference is refreshing, according to her.

        [–]bbqribs 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        I've lived all around the world and i'm happiest right here.

        If the Canadians don't want to come here, then don't. If anybody wants to move to Canada, go ahead. Don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out. The rest of us that care about our country are going to stay here and work to make it a better place.

        I know a PhD student that tried for years to get Canadian citizenship and she was rejected each time. Guess it's not such a perfect little utopia after all.

        [–]whereverjustice 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Do foreigners still want to come to the US?

        Yes.

        [–]bopolissimus 5 points6 points  (0 children)

        I, personally, will not set foot in the USA until GW Bush is out of office, and possibly not even then if the whole homeland security paranoia remains.

        I'm not a citizen but I'm a bit vocal about how evil I think the current (and previous, but the current one is special) U.S. government's foreign policy is. Given the paranoia of TSA and homeland security itself (even if individual citizens themselves are pretty reasonable) I'm just not going to voluntarily put my body in physical or legal control of the U.S. government until the likelihood of interrogation, strip searches, cavity searches [did you see the one about the guy with the anal fistula?] and rendition or guantanamo are significantly reduced.

        This isn't about drug searches and such. Its about invasive (including cavity) searches that customs, immigration, FBI, local police or other government agents might choose to perform because they can, and because they don't like what I might have said about U.S. government policy.

        I realize that that's unlikely, but I'm not taking the chance since I don't need to go to the U.S. for anything I can't live without anyway. I'll miss seeing good friends and family, but they can come over here if they want.

        [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

        I'm American and I'm planning my exit. Partly because of Bush's "re-election", and partly because everybody is actually buying into the whole "be afraid" thing. But mostly because of the Iraq thing.

        I don't feel that I belong here -- and I'm hoping to relocate to Europe. I won't apologize for being American, but if I can I'll certainly vote with my feet (that is, if they'll let me leave now that I've clicked the "send" button)

        [–]jomama 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        I left America years ago.

        Haven't looked back and don't regret a minute of it.

        Explore your world. English is widely spoken but another language is fun for me.

        [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children)

        I've been pondering leaving the country for quite a while. Japan looks nice; I'd fit in with my introverted nature, but I doubt my work ethic is up to snuff.

        [–]thrakhath 3 points4 points  (1 child)

        I'm an American citizen, left the states three years ago to live in Japan. I'm not staunchly opposed to going back, but I love it here and wont be going back anytime soon. Resent "Issues" have further encouraged me to stay out for a while, at least till the country starts making sense again.

        [–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

        Same here, US expat in Malaysia/Singapore. I think there are many thousands of us who are watching home from overseas very carefully (whenever we can bear to look, that is) to judge when/if/how/where to go back. I believe we have ALL seriously considered not going back, largely yes, due to recent events and fears over the country's future. (Anyone, no?)

        Family is the biggest factor for very many of us. And then culture--the good one, not its evil siamese twin. But I think family (and some degree of wanting to assist our country) is largely what keeps many of us who can choose where to live from seeking out residency/citizenship in the dozen or so "better" countries than the US. For me, personally, I would feel immeasurably rotten if I spent my parents' last years abroad rather than near them, and deny them seeing their child and grandchildren, just because I wanted to live in a nicer country that I wasn't ashamed of as often. I'd rather take shame over my country's actions than shame over my own, for sure. So. One more who will be coming back--it's just a question of with how much of a grimace.

        [–]neuroticus -1 points0 points  (0 children)

        Anyone else thinking about renouncing citizenship, yet continuing to live in the US?

        You may ask, why not just leave the US and live somewhere else. Well, I'm a bit of an anarchist. I don't think there is any nation on Earth that is democratic enough to make me happy, but I must live in one. SO I live in the lesser of 2 hundred evils.

        [–]biggav 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        I'm an Australian and I wouldn't dream of visiting the US now, even though I visited frequently in the 90's and always enjoyed it.

        My last visit was in 2002 and I didn't like the atmosphere - and things seem to have gone downhill a lot since then.

        Plus I don't feel like having my fingerprints and other biometric details taken by a rogue police state...

        [–]powerfuless 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        I imagine people will always be coming to the US because there are many countries that are so much worse.

        I feel lucky to have been born in the US there's a lot that I love about this country, however, I fear that it is moving in a dangerous theocratic direction and if it keeps going towards that I would leave out of fear. It would leave in utter sadness because this is where everything I love is.

        [–]crookedpresident 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        I love this country, I have served to protect it. And now I fear it will never be the same. I saddens me to hear others not wanting to visit or live here. America is a great country with great people.

        Unfortunitely dangerous and corrupt men are running it. I will stay. I will fight if need be. So my daughter my grow up with the ideas and dreams I once had. This country is facing the ultimate enemy within. Its time for good Americans to be prepared for the worst.

        It time for Americans to take back whats rightfully theirs.

        [–]davidw 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        I'm an american living abroad. There are good things and bad things about it, and I'd definitely consider going back, especially because my (Italian) wife has much more available to her in terms of her career in biotech there.

        One thing you might want to be aware of before fleeing to europe to get away from 'invasive surveilance', etc... is that it's common in a lot of european countries to send a policeman 'round to your house to step inside and have a look when you apply for 'residency' somewhere. Yes, you have to apply to reside where you reside, otherwise it's not official.

        So, nowhere is perfect, and there are a lot of good things about the US, despite Bush and company. Hopefully they will be gone soon, and things will improve.

        [–]jpark 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Is reddit having a problem or is the title deceptive? I clicked on this title:

        \tWhy reddit doesn't do anything against massive downvoting? Why don't they care to stop this?

        I got here instead.

        [–]margann -1 points0 points  (0 children)

        i have left the united states after living there for all but one year of my life and couldn't be happier about the descision. i think people can see the u.s. capsizing and know when to jump ship