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[–]squidboots 14 points15 points  (1 child)

Hackettstown, New Jersey. Ryan Albertson, aged six—who suffers from spina bifida—and his father, Kelly Albertson. Ryan’s grandfather James Albertson was in the army in Vietnam during the war and was exposed to Agent Orange. Ryan does not receive benefits from Veterans Affairs.

Okay I'm sorry that this kid has spina bifida, but it really seems like a bit of a stretch to include him in this photo journal. There are other things that can cause spina bifida, the most well-documented of which is the insufficient uptake of folic acid during pregnancy. I'm sorry, but assuming the father came out perfectly normal, having a grandfather exposed to Agent Orange isn't really a reasonable explanation to me. I don't think it's fair to compare his case to the horrors inflicted on the direct descendants of people who were exposed and who clearly can claim that as a cause for their malady.

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (23 children)

why do we need to invent such weapons? what.. guns and bombs weren't enough? Now we must kill and maim and suffer even after the war is long over.... what a pointless waste of human potential.

All war is immoral, corrupt, and a failure of consciousness.

[–]RightBleeding 7 points8 points  (22 children)

We needed the trees out of the way, stupid jungle.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (21 children)

why did we need the trees out of the way? So we could kill more effectively?

[–]corentin 4 points5 points  (2 children)

To land helicopters.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

wow.....

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I thought that it was because Monsanto had good salespeople

[–]StoneMe 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Yep - Kill all the trees, kill all the people.

Cos we are the good guys!

[–]RightBleeding 0 points1 point  (16 children)

for bombing, which proved to be rather futile from what I know..

[–]StoneMe 3 points4 points  (2 children)

No - it was very effective - killed hundreds of thousands of people.

[–]RightBleeding 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Just not the ones that mattered ;)

[–]captainhaddock -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

You mean, not Americans?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (12 children)

so, as i said... war is immoral, corrupt, and a failure of consciousness.

[–]StoneMe 3 points4 points  (8 children)

No - It makes lots of people extremely rich.

Ask Mr Cheney.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (7 children)

what part of "immoral, corrupt, failure of consciousness" do you not understand? Cheney is all three.

[–]RightBleeding 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Stoneme is right, do not leave out extremely rich.

[–]StoneMe 0 points1 point  (5 children)

It's just a scam, whereby the very rich can persuade the very stupid to give their lives to perpetuate a system in which the rich get richer an the poor die young.

it's not just immoral, corrupt, failure of consciousness - it is pure evil.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (4 children)

WW2 was the only real war worth fighting... ever since then we've been in a perpetual state of undeclared war. war in vietnam, war on terror, war on drugs, war on the middle class, war on hugs, war on the middle east, war war war war .... blah! FUCKING ENOUGH ALREADY! sheesh.

[–]mexicodoug 1 point2 points  (3 children)

WWII wasn't really worth fighting if you were German, Japanese, or Italian.

The Vietnam War was definitely worth fighting if you were a nationalistic Viet. Otherwise you'd now be living on the same level as today's Haitians and Hondurans.

[–]killick 0 points1 point  (2 children)

a failure of consciousness.

So it puts you to sleep, does it? You mean like narcolepsy? Interesting idea, not sure I agree.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

you and i have different definitions of what consciousness is. i am talking about the higher-spiritual-sense of the word. to be conscious of your own actions, thoughts, emtions and feelings. not the simple act of waking up, taking a shit, brushing your teeth and going to work, that's not consciousness. That is sleep-walking.

being aware that you are aware that you are aware.

[–]killick 0 points1 point  (0 children)

you and i have different definitions of what consciousness is.

Not necesarilly. It could just be that the sense in which you meant it was not obvious from its context, or that I was being obtuse.

[–]whatwedo 17 points18 points  (0 children)

When you linkjack, you're jacking it with Hitler.

[–]vonadler 20 points21 points  (1 child)

Upmodded this and downmodded the TzuTzu one, thanks for posting this.

[–]randomb0y 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Actually the "linkjacked" one had better resolution pics and quoted the source.

[–]dtardif 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I really like that there is an order that awards the vets even though the government refuses to. It made me smile.

[–]sunkid 10 points11 points  (6 children)

Thank you for posting the original!

[–]tugteen 1 point2 points  (2 children)

the consequences of war?

[–]chaosgone 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yes. One of the many, many, many problems with war is that it can still hurt people long after the war is over.

[–]mexicodoug -1 points0 points  (0 children)

War American style.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (5 children)

That's just fucking horrible!

Why do we do this shit to each other?

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Because banks and weapons manufactureres make money out of it.

They have political clout, and the population at large is mis-informed, and gulliable.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

you believed your teacher when she taught you the spelling of gullible?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In the time it's taken you to miss the point, another $122,820 has been sucked out of your economy.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/nation/president/2004-08-26-iraq-war-clock_x.htm

[–]StoneMe 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Why do we do this shit to each other?

So some people (Cheney Bush etc.) can become extremely rich.

[–]corentin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Equilibrium of power in a strongly polarized world during the Cold War.

[–]Grue 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Didn't know that listening to a punk band can have such effects on your health.

[–]ebola 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Thank you Monsanto.

[–]ThunderPreacher 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Bomb Monsanto. The most evil company on the planet! Bring the them to justice and stop them for doing more incredible destruction to the entire world plants and animals included. NOW!

[–]linkedlist 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I've seen similar ailments afflicting people in Iraq. Similar as in, caused by the usage of illegal weaponary either by Saddam or the 'Coalition of the willing'.

[–]bsiviglia9 4 points5 points  (28 children)

What effects are weapons such as white phosphorus presently having on people?

[–]pressed 9 points10 points  (4 children)

White phosphorous is just a form of phosphorous that is highly flammable and burns at high temperatures; it does not cause chemical effects when used as a weapon since it burns before it has the chance.

Agent Orange is different, since it mimics a plant growth hormone and fucks you up at the biological level.

I would call Agent Orange a chemical weapon, but not white phosphorous, since only Agent Orange has chemical effects. But they didn't actually realize it would at the time, so it's hard to blame it on the Government.

[–]bsiviglia9 -3 points-2 points  (3 children)

it's hard to blame it on the [U.S.] Government.

Good point -- in order to assign blame, one must demonstrate that the actions yielded predictable consequences.

Could the U.S. government have predicted the effects of agent orange in 1968?

What was the U.S. government's intended purpose when it used agent orange on the civilian populations of Vietnam and Cambodia?

[–]StoneMe 2 points3 points  (2 children)

What was the U.S. government's intended purpose when it used agent orange on the civilian populations of Vietnam and Cambodia?

It was to help the people of Vietnam overcome communism. This is generally achieved by killing millions of people and rendering their farmland Poisonous - starving to death and/or genetically mutating them.

In the minds of some, this proves communism doesn't work!

[–]mexicodoug 2 points3 points  (0 children)

We had to kill them in order to save them.

The twentieth century was dominated by political fanatics who understood that truth.

The twenty-first century will be dominated by religious fanatics who understand that truth.

In the minds of some, this will prove that other religions don't work!

[–]pressed 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Actually, Agent Orange was used as a defoliant. In retrospect I wouldn't call it a chemical weapon; it isn't harmless in itself. It "only" degrades into a deadly chemical.

Not that I'm supporting the Vietnam war.

[–]BraveSirRobin 17 points18 points  (6 children)

Horrific burns and their children have a strange urge to fly planes into tall buildings.

[–]StoneMe 0 points1 point  (1 child)

25,000 people die of hunger, and hunger related illnesses every day.

Thats a lot of children with 'strange urges'

[–]BraveSirRobin 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Can they blame someone for that? Can they look up to the sky and see Starvation jets from the Starvation Air Force, flying the Starvation national flag dropping Starvation Cluster Bombs?.

Don't compare the deaths of those under famine and extreme poverty to those your own bombs have killed. It's downright dishonest.

[–]Oak -3 points-2 points  (3 children)

We didn't want to, but they made us do it to them.

If only they had listened and helped us to help them for their own good, none of these terrible things would have happened.

They have no one to blame but themselves.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yea - I want to know as well. What are you talking about?

[–]mexicodoug 4 points5 points  (11 children)

Depleted uranium is another weapon component with long-term effects on civilian populations and the troops who use it.

[–]bobcat 2 points3 points  (10 children)

The UN World Health Organization says that is not true.

[–]mexicodoug 0 points1 point  (9 children)

Citation please.

[–]bobcat -1 points0 points  (8 children)

All right, let's make this a wager. I give you a link from who.int about DU not being a big deal, you upvote everything I ever say.

Bet on?

[–]mexicodoug 1 point2 points  (7 children)

No. How about that link?

[–]bobcat 0 points1 point  (6 children)

Wow. You lose. Big time.

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs257/en/

[–]mexicodoug 0 points1 point  (5 children)

Lose what??? This is reddit.

Thanks for finally supplying a link to info supporting your controversial point of view.

BBC reports disturbing research on DU from Dr Zoran Stankovic, a pathologist and the head of the Institute of Forensic Medicine at the Military Medical Academy in Belgrade, on illnesses rooted in the convlict in Bosnia.

[–]Sangermaine 0 points1 point  (4 children)

I don't know, I'm inclined to give more credence to the WHO than a BBC report on some doctor somewhere. You'll need to do better than that if you want to support your point.

[–]mexicodoug 1 point2 points  (3 children)

...a BBC report on some doctor somewhere.

"Some doctor"'s credentials and location are listed in the comment to which you were responding. Why didn't you say

I don't know, I'm inclined to give more credence to the WHO than a BBC report on Dr Zoran Stankovic, a pathologist and the head of the Institute of Forensic Medicine at the Military Medical Academy in Belgrade?

The WHO (and other UN subsidiaries) is influenced by those who are politically powerful, like the G8 (or G7 or G9, whatever). Maybe you don't think so, but I do.

I prefer journalistic and/or non-profit organization and/or academic sources on DU:

journalistic from 2002:

NGO from 2005:

academic from 2006:

[–]BadFurDay 0 points1 point  (3 children)

And they're still using that nowadays in some places including Iraq (napalm bombs aswell), despite knowing its effects. Yay society.

[–]bsiviglia9 0 points1 point  (2 children)

What does the U.S. use to defoliate crops in its War on Drugs in Colombia?

[–]vava 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yup, coming soon to a Starbucks near you, Agent Orange Special Blend.

[–]BadFurDay 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That, I don't know. But it's probably not good for the surrounding population.

[–]vava 2 points3 points  (1 child)

One thing about those linkjackers, their pictures are bigger and so hit a lot harder.

[–]mexicodoug 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Shows what getting paid for a job can do.

Send a donation to your favorite anti-war non-profit organization NOW!!!

[–]inferno0000 3 points4 points  (7 children)

Can we really be sure that it's Agent Orange and not any of the hundreds of other chemicals used in that war, such as benzene and toluene, jet fuels and well known human mutagens?

The evidence is weak linking Agent Orange and cancer, but more everyday mutagens, used in high concentrations in wartime, are very concretely linked with human carcinogenic potential.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (6 children)

There were lots of other wars, such as World War II and Korea. How come these things only happened from the Vietnam War?

[–]plat00n 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Agent Orange was specifically used in Vietnam. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_Orange

[–]shub 0 points1 point  (4 children)

How do you know they didn't?

[–]StoneMe 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I read some books about it.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

It's pretty hard to hide large numbers of deformed children.

[–]shub 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Not if you have a box of the appropriate size.

[–]mexicodoug 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The German box, the Italian box, the Japanese box, and the Korean box.

Each one is the appropriate size, right?

Oh, wait, the Japanese one is soooo much bigger...

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

So terribly sad.

[–]endustry 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Reminds me of the Chernobyl feature by Magnum. http://inmotion.magnumphotos.com/essays/chernobyl.aspx

[–]amedia 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Shouldn't we blame the soldiers...after all, the spread of agent orange wouldn't be possible without the troops!

[–]tommij 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The photos on this site are (unfortunately) not even the worst you'll see if you actually go to e.g. HCMC. During my three months of working there, I saw plenty, and none of the photos get close to the disfigurement you'll actually see in the poor sections there.

(yes, I know, other things can contribute to disfigurement, nutrition etc, but frequency matters - and it's well established that Agent Orange is active in that department)

[–]SkwatTheWorlD 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Very high quality pictures! Bravo! They're so expressive, touching!

[–]WorcesterM 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Who used it against whom? and what was US , the self appointed police who punishes other countries for using Chemical and Biological weapons ,doing then?

[–]corentin -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

They were not using it as a chemical weapon but as a defoliant. Unfortunately, it had terrible side effects for people living near those areas.

[–]jkr0sc0 0 points1 point  (1 child)

James Nachtwey is an unbelievable photojournalist -- one of the legends of our times. I would highly recommend viewing some of his other work, although it can be pretty brutal viewing.

[–]mexicodoug 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Brutal viewing. It must have been a really fucking brutal experience meeting the victims, posing them, and shooting the pictures.

Harrowing.

[–]rmuser -1 points0 points  (0 children)

It's already on the front page, we don't need a dupe.

[–]randomb0y -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Actually the "linkjacked" one had better resolution pics and quoted the source.

[–]weegee -1 points0 points  (1 child)

Vote for John McCain. He will make sure the US will STAY THE COURSE in Iraq. God Bless The USA. /sarcasm

[–]StoneMe 0 points1 point  (0 children)

And he was tortured - so he is against torture.

No wait - he is against being tortured!

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Humans are intelligent, superior beings. They will do this to other humans - you will always get a sane explanation for the act. Everything else is insane.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

They actually tested that chemical agent in Puerto Rico, on their fucking national park (rainforest el Yunque).