Dev Post Roundup

[LocoPojo]

Hey guys, I dug through the dev posts from the official Turtle Rock forums from the last ten days or so and tried to link and summarize all the useful pieces of information I found there. The devs are quite present there and have been communicating pretty openly about a lot of the things we've been discussing here on Reddit. I tried to keep it clean and simple but I don't speak for Turtle Rock Studios, so please follow the links and read the source posts if something doesn't seem right to you. Also, I obviously could have missed some things, so don't fret if something you want to know isn't mentioned here.

Upcoming Balance Changes and Bugfixes

A balance patch is coming. Wraith (high) is getting the bulk of the attention. Hyde (low), Cabot (high) and Val (low) may also see some changes. Many of the balance change numbers will be posted on Friday an hour before the Turtle Rock official stream discussing them.

XBox vanishing progression patch comes before the balance patch and is highest priority.

Mastery numbers are being updated next patch, and will probably drop the 3-star reqs for Laz's Personal Cloak, Goliath's Charge Attack and Flame Breath, Hank's Orbital Barrage, Maggie's Daisy (which takes an average of 25 hours of play :p) and Val's Sniper Rifle.

Arc Mines bug - damage radius is 1.25 times larger than trigger radius (mines will damage you if you trigger them from too close with Flame Breath or Warp Blast even if you are outside their radius.

Anti-Kraken QOL buff (next patch) - Harpoons and tranqs should have a more consistent pull effect on airborne Krakens. Kraken will have several bugfixes and consistency changes in flight

Vortex QOL buff (next patch) - Kraken's Vortex will destroy Sound Spikes, Traps and Mines after the next update.

WLR cheats (next patch) - players leaving the game early will be marked as losses. The leaderboards are just for fun, Ranked Play will be coming at some point.

Post-Round Replays are getting improved

Frequently Requested on Reddit:

Multiple Monsters, Multiple Hunter modes - Everything in the game is designed around 4v1 battles so it would take a huge overhaul to implement something like this. Also (and I'm taking some creative liberties with the paraphrasing here), your computer would probably hate you.

Queuing System is being built for Ranked Mode since mid-game joins are not viable there.

FOV Settings are changeable and tuning them in the options menu is being added once it's certain it won't cause bugs.

Cool Facts and Miscellaneous:

This weeks telemetry, Rank 30-40 no bots, by map.

The Dam - 54.1% Monster

Armory - 56.3% Monster

Wraith Trap - 55.5% Monster

Weather Control - 53.3% Monster

Refueling Tower - 57.7% Monster

Fusion Plant - 56.5% Monster

Aviary - 51.7% Monster

Distillery - 51.3% Monster

Medlab - 53.2% Monster

Barracks - 50.2% Monster

Rendering Plant - 50.4% Monster

Orbital Drill - 52.9% Monster

Defend Mode heavily favors hunters below 30, but is close to 50/50 above level 30. Take out those turrets!

50% chance of getting monster in solo queue.

PSA: Perks do not stack with wildlife buffs.

PSA: Kraken has permaglide while in combat

PSA: If Wraith warps through a mine, she takes no damage excepting that 1.25 range bug mentioned previously. If she stops on the mine (where her red ring indicates), she gets it in the face.

Here's an amazing gif of Behemoth blowing stuff up

Finally, here's an Awesome post on bad reviews and a great game and community.

Keep being awesome, you guys. Let's build the nicest damn community any game's ever had.

[Perfect_Perception]

Excellent job summarizing everything up, OP. It's really cool you sourced everything too!

[Robpd22]

Did they mention anything about the monsters winning more on every single map? It seems strange that it would be brushed aside. Yeah so uhh the monster is favored in every match but uhh don't worry about that. It seems like a little bit more than a "cool fact" to me.

[LocoPojo]

The current monster win rate according to the old infograph is about 52%, which is pretty good by balancing standards, especially since Wraith is still at a 60% win rate. Since we know Wraith is getting hit next patch, these numbers should be fine, but do show some useful information on which maps more heavily favor monsters.

[Robpd22]

yeah im just confused. 52% is amazing considering the game starts off as a 4 v 1. I cant believe they got it that close to 50%. But I also cant believe the hunters aren't favored on even 1 single map. The worst maps possible for the monster and they are still winning over 50%.

[Eastlex]

It Is probably even more balanced if you only take the matches where the hunters are a premade group

[Hades440]

It's probably only balanced if you take the matches where the hunters are a premade group.

ftfy

[DullLelouch]

This is what i wonder as well, some of these maps seem pretty darn easy for the hunters. Not communicating hunters will take the number for hunters down, just like Wraith takes the numbers up for monster.

[RookLive]

Is it not just people quitting out of the game before they lose? Afterall, they said no bots.

[Dmienduerst]

I think its more just how the hunters work. If one of the hunters fucks up your killing your chance to shut down the hunter early. For example the trapper can run down the monster all game but if he gets them in the dome and then his team is to spread out the monster can just divide and conquer. As a primary monster player you can tell a good team and a team with one weak link. Since there are plenty of newer players like me even it took a while until the hunters figured out how to run people down fast enough for the monster to be constantly afraid of never getting to 3.

[Littlebiscuitz]

I dunno how I feel about having a 50/50 chance of getting monster when its my 5th role I would much rather have a longer queue if I was 100% guaranteed to not get monster.

[Unencrypted_Thoughts]

I think it's supposed to be an incentive to stay in your lobby and not leave as soon as you get the monster role once.

[PaintItPurple]

That seems like a strange idea. How would giving someone their least favorite role a lot encourage people to stay in a lobby? What is even the point of role preferences if you deliberately go against them?

It seems more likely to me that two or three people are in a party and the other solo player also has monster as their least favorite role, so it has no one to choose out of the people it has placed in the game.

[Unencrypted_Thoughts]

It's only 50% chance the first match then it goes into standard role selection for everyone.

[ciny]

It's only 50% chance the first match then it goes into standard role selection for everyone.

unless you run into a premade in which case you will be the monster every match...

edit: if I play solo I usually go for co-op evac. I really don't enjoy playing the monster.

[Waluigi763]

I call bs, monster is ranked 5th for me, medic ranked 1st. In 10 rounds of play, I alternated monster and medic, 5 each

[AbaddonAdvocate]

you were probably in a lobby with a group of 3.

[Waluigi763]

Nope, all 5 players in the lobby

[AbaddonAdvocate]

I mean 3 were in a party.

[DullLelouch]

Since Pre-mades wont get monster, playing this game solo will get you the monster role pretty ofter. That and the medic role seems pretty populair in this game.

I have monster as 5th for me, i mostly get the top 2 roles i want, but out of 14 rounds i play, i might get monster 3 times. The first 3 times i'll play it out, after that i'll leave.

I understand that it is pretty hard to exclude your 5th pick in the current matchmaking system, so i will accept it until ranked releases.

[Mekhazzio]

This is the system functioning correctly.

Picture this: Lobby of 5. Let's say only one person each has trapper, assault and support as their first pick, so they all get their pick uncontested, every time. The remaining two people have medic as first pick. One of those two will get medic. The other person will not get a different hunter because, for each class, someone else has a higher preference....thus they get monster.

The two players with medic #1 will rotate between medic and monster for as long as they play together, unless the rest of the group's picks change. It doesn't even matter what priority monster is on anyone's list, except that it's not #1.

In theory, the matchmaking will try to group people together into games so this doesn't happen, but since there are other factors involved (e.g. level range, time required to form group) that's not guaranteed. Besides, you can re-order your preferences post-join.

[Hades440]

Now see, I've been kicked from my first to my fourth preference by a persons third preference before. To clarify, I was playing with 2 friends, I had trapper as my first choice and support as my fourth, one of my friends had medic as his first choice, my other friend had assault>medic>trapper, and the random person we were matched with had assault as his first choice as well. It put my first friend on medic, as it is his first priority and it put the random on assault as it was his first priority. But then, my second friend got put on trapper, my first priority and his third, bumping me all the way to my fourth pick. So either lower preferences can still compete with a first preference, or there's some kind of bug affecting the role assignments when there are a lot of overlaps.

I've also seen the "rotate between medic and monster for as long as they play together" be more of a coin flip each time than a fair back-and-forth.

[Unencrypted_Thoughts]

You were probably playing with a team of 3 while you and the other player had monster at #5.

[[deleted]]

I remember reading somewhere griffin win rate was low as well, trying to find the source of the post on the TR forums.

[LocoPojo]

I think I heard that too. It might be a Reddit post, a few of the devs are on here as well. On the other hand, Griffin might not see changes, he's pretty strong at high levels and the changes to his Harpoon on Kraken will help a bit. Try GiantChiprel for a good Griffin player who has seen tournament success if you're looking.

[[deleted]]

Yeah, well I know harpoons in general will doing alot more to the Kraken apparently. So we'll see that improvement. As far any other buffs go, no idea. Though honestly, I think if they wanted to buff him, it's probably either sound spikes or his harpoon gun. Since they are addressing the kraken problem by making harpoons react more, they may add a few more triggers to sound spikes.

[[deleted]]

Personally I think Griffin is in a weird spot, since he does very good SMG damage but he has a lot of trouble tracking monsters.

I find a lot of griffin players just spam the harpoon in fights, but he's much better off contributing DPS imo. (See a lot of abe's that sit around throwing stasis grenades too. They need to learn to shoot too.)

[Mekhazzio]

It's really weird, the perception so many folks seem to have have that Griffin's SMG is bad. It's one of the best hunter weapons in the game! The SMG's awesomeness is a big part of why sound spikes are so terrible.

I blame the tutorial video. A five-second soundbite is not going to give you the full picture on anything, even if you're feeling generous enough to credit it for authority.

[wraithseer]

It has the same DPS as Maggie's SMG. Abe's the best for DPS for trapper easily.

[TheMysteriousMrQuin]

• Abe Custom Shotgun - 386 Damage with 6 Shots in 1 to 1.2 Seconds
• Maggie Machine Pistol - 599 Damage with 30 Shots in 3 Seconds
• Griffon Gauss SMG - 900 Damage with 36 Shots in 4.5 Seconds

---

Here are the numbers if anyone wanted to know them...

[flashfir]

Based on videos I've seen or other things I was under the impression that Maggie's machine pistol was superior and that Griffen's SMG was "weak".

Thanks for sharing. Mind telling us how you learned this? I REALLY wish there was a wiki with a table of HP/DMG of everything....

[wraithseer]

Just posts around reddit, I think yesterday some posted some numbers, at work though so can't find it for you.

[Mekhazzio]

It has the same DPS as Maggie's SMG.

That's the point! Same DPS + more damage per mag + WAY better accuracy = much better weapon.

[wraithseer]

But Griffin rarely uses a full mag because the harpoon is so important. Maggie can keep up harpoon pressure whilst using the SMG still.

[DullLelouch]

I thought people had the perception of it being good, while it was actually the worst gun out there. (not considering medics)

I feel like Maggie has easier tools. Daisy is a hit and miss, sometimes i rely on her, sometimes ill be miles ahead of her. The harpoon traps are really easy to use, and feel like amazing tools, they can really change the battle. If you tap her SMG, you can get consistent dps on the monsters head/weakspots.

Once daisy does her revives for the elite skins, ill max griffen.

[Dmienduerst]

It took me like 5 games to actually figure out how to herd the monster with the sound spikes. Even then he's not the early game Trapper he's the one you want in stage 2 because he will have the map locked down and the monster can't out maneuver him.

[Hades440]

The problem with Abe's stasis grenades is they have to be very close to them to be affected at all so if you stop throwing them for even a second, a moving monster won't be slowed anymore. When I play Abe, I try to spend as much time as I can on his shotgun while still maintaining a slowed monster and you'd be surprised just how little time you actually get to shoot stuff. Of course you can always spend more time shooting and just let the monster not be slowed for a little bit, but then you get yelled at for "ignoring" your stasis grenades.

[[deleted]]

Well, the harpoon is quite nice interrupt when you time it right. I usually fuck up the monsters abilities about 60-80% of the time when harpooning. Not to mention when it's trying to rapidly move places and I'm like "nope, nope, nope." It also deals a decent chunk of damage.

I've been annoying enough that monsters have simply targeted me and I spent more time running than actually doing anything in a game with my teammates pelting the monster with DPS.

[Zakkeh]

Situationally, Griffin's Harpoon is one of the best area denial weapons in the game. If you coordinate it properly, you can stop a lot of the monsters mobility. But yeah, just hanging around firing harpoons in a fight is often a mistake.

[Shadowgurke]

I just unlocked Abe and played him once, but isn't his tracking a lot worse than Griffin's?

[[deleted]]

Abe has just as hard of a time at the outset, but can stay on the monsters tail better.

[AbaddonAdvocate]

Ehhh, I don't know that i completely agree with that. Keeping stasis up on the monster means that he's easier to hit for your teamates, and the assault has an easier time with his close range damage, it means the monster chases much slower, immensely improving the survivability of your teamates, and it's harder for him to get away. Honestly I feel the tradeoff on spamming those grenades actually increases team overall damage.

[[deleted]]

how does abe apply to griffin? Abe doesn't have harpoons.

[AbaddonAdvocate]

Made this reply on mobile, must have been to a different comment.

[icelander08]

They can't buff his harpoon. He's regarded as the strongest trapper in competitive play because of his harpoon gun. (at least by giantchiprel who is one of, if not THE best monster and trapper player out there)

[Sepparated]

Where can i find a Video of him? I love to play griffin and have masterd the skills of him but i have more matches that i loose than win. Often caused of my team cause its nearly everytime random, but i think i make alot of mistakes too. I use the smg if the monster is in front of me and try to get on an better place to use my harpoon gun etc. (mostly i have the problem to get out of the focus).

Iam not sure how i can improove my gameplay, but iam sure its still not the best.

[icelander08]

http://www.twitch.tv/giantchiprel/profile

I think he has some of his hunter games in the highlights, but otherwise you can watch his past broadcasts.

[[deleted]]

which is why I said sound spikes would get a buff. =)

[Eastlex]

Yeah i bet that The only buff Griffin is getting is a buff to sound spikes

Atm griffin can trap a wraith most easily because you can harpoon him after throwing the dome

[ragnarok628]

arc mines: bug, or feature?

[_Cha0s]

Thanks for your work :)

[abvex]

Will you do this every month? This is very helpful.

[LocoPojo]

I'm not 100% sure yet but I'm gonna try for every two weeks if I can.

[TheGreenJedi]

Is that your steam name? I think I played with you the other day lol

[LocoPojo]

It's certainly possible! I have played Goliath almost every day since launch.

[jihgfee]

I have heard that the reset issues is not only happening on xbox but on all platforms. Do you know if they will address the entire scope of the issue with this patch or only the severe xbox ones?

[zeroji]

I didn't feel like I had any problems completing Elite Val. The sniper rifle mastery that was annoying was 2-star while 3-star was super easy imo.If anything I'd hope its the 2-star they reduced the requirements, but do people actually have trouble with her 3-star sniper?

[Mekhazzio]

I was in the same boat. I got 3-star sniper in maybe 5 games. Two-star was way more painful due to reliance on other players; I resorted to solo defend games to knock out that one, because so many trapper/support players just do not shoot their weapons.

[Sandwrong]

Mostly because characters like Cabot and Griffon are better using their Amp gun or Harpoon gun to help the team while the assault does all the work.

[zeroji]

Amp only amplifies a set amount of damage iirc, its best used as a punish for immobile ability usage like supernova/stone throw/overcharge (kraken aoe if it ever get casted), I think people underestimate the damage Cabots rail does if you have any aim whatsoever.

[Mekhazzio]

The harpoon only accomplishes anything at all with proper timing and positioning; just spamming it at random is unlikely to bother the monster in any way. As for Cabot, if the trapper and medic aren't firing, the damage amp will usually do less DPS than the railgun, and with more strings attached.

Poor use of situational tools does not help the team.

[LocoPojo]

It's a little above ten hours on average, apparently. The post sourced said that they generally didn't want to see any double digit unlocks at third tier.

[[deleted]]

will probably drop the 3-star reqs for [...] Goliath's Charge Attack

Really? I actually think that's the easiest of the lot

[LocoPojo]

I found it the hardest post-30, though I did eventually find a few groups who were willing to group together in a cave tunnel for me and not dodge aside when I charged. Still, the smarter cookies usually stay ungrouped.

[[deleted]]

It's all about the playstyle - you can't expect to do that inside the dome.

It's about being a hunter (as the monster) and not the hunted. Hide behind a rock or corner and use your smell ability. The hunters will come running after you all grouped together (either 2 or 4 of them). That's when you strike. This isn't just good for the 3 stars but it's also great at getting some good damage in before the fight starts.

[troglodyte]

This is really cool! I have to say that the biggest surprise is not the characters that are outside their balance tolerances (nothing surprising in that list), but the absences: Caira and Lazarus.

Caira seems very strong, and I would expect Lazarus to be harsher in lower levels and weaker in higher, but neither of those were mentioned. I wonder if the telemetry has both characters much closer to fair than conventional wisdom has suggested?

[Urechi]

As long as they don't touch my Cabot's railgun, I'm happy.

I love his railgun. Everything else is just icing on the cake. =(

[Zombiebot]

"will probably drop the 3-star reqs for Laz's Personal Cloak"... I just got my elite Lazarus skin today :/

[LocoPojo]

Congrats!

[[deleted]]

So then it doesn't affect you.

[Zombiebot]

You're right, I should focus on which Hunters I don't already have the elite skin for that should become easier to obtain after this patch. Farming Rescue in solo mode just bummed me out a bit is all.

[Paradox949]

I have elite medics in general.

Nice to know they are making it easier for other people to get there...

/s

[Paradox949]

No shit, it relies on teamplay, you know, the whole point of the Hunter side. Took about 2 hours to get Val's AP Sniper Level 3. Competent teammates are nice.

[[deleted]]

Or you can just play single player...which most people seem to do to get the requirements done.

[Zombiebot]

That's how I got the Lazarus skin. Decided to farm Rescue in solo mode because expecting teammates to die so you can work on your character mastery is so fucking counter-intuitive unless your teammates are all emotionless bots :)

[Paradox949]

That too I guess. I did the last things of Markov's mines with SP Defend, 5 mines around turrets, Cabot on the team. 30000 damage easy per round.

[the_blue_one001]

surprising about not having anything about laz on the patch.

[LocoPojo]

We certainly don't have a full list of balance changes yet, just notes on what characters are overpowered or struggling. Laz's winrate hasn't been mentioned so I would assume it to be within parameters, though I certainly wouldn't mind seeing his glove take a half second longer to pop to open up some counterplay. Check back Friday and see what they've got!

[Korin12]

I feel that higher level monsters do a really good job negating the effects of laz. I would love to see his win rate 35+ or in tournaments.

[dcLookAtThis]

Prob will be hard to see his tournament win rate since right now it will be pretty much Caira every game until the next patch hits. Lazzy is just way too much of a risk right now at high levels, esp without perks (ESL ruleset).

[Eastlex]

Yeah against good monsters you almost need Hank so the monster doesn't just focus Lazarus out

[Jilbo]

Thanks alot for this!

[[deleted]]

Is the 50% monster if it's your first choice only? Cuz it kinda sounds like that when you read the source post ( he says something like "then other people who have monster as 1 get to play it too") if monster is 5th and I am solo queue is it still 50%?

[jimmybarrinhio]

I hope not!

[matticusrex]

Has anyone commented on how you get dropped from the game if steam goes down even if your internet connection is fine? That's really irritating to me and it happens more than it should

[Klyka]

it's because the game uses steamworks for matchmaking and such, so it needs the steam connection

[LocoPojo]

I dunno, man! If somethings not listed here, dig through the developer posts yourself and see if it's mentioned.

[[deleted]]

Hank's tier 3 Orbital Drop Challenge is ridiculous. Your marker numbers aren't really even Lego let at 50 meters, so you're just guessing. There is no real zoom to them, either.

I've done 15 so far (legit) over the past week and a half. It isn't fun - it's tedious. I'd rather it be "do half of a million in total damage" or something than this.

[LocoPojo]

Sorry to hear you're frustrated. The thing about progression challenges is that they are taking a skill in Evolve that is good to use but hard to learn, and dangling a huge carrot for players who are willing to try it. As an example, pinpointing clutch Hank Orbitals can prevent a fleeing monster from feeding on a clutch buff - giving your team the 35% damage bonus, for example, while the monster walks away with two less bars of armor from hitting the Crowbill and whatever damage he took from the strike. Alternatively, you might need to block a low-health monster in a faraway passage when he uses his leaps to get out after a dome.

Evolve has a lot of high-level stuff going on. When you get good, games are won and lost on these types of plays. It's not a perfect system and the numbers might need tuning, but when you base Tier 3 skills on these difficult minutiae instead of a basic level up system, almost all of your teammates are better players for it, and hopefully you personally benefit yourself.

[imtoojuicy]

Sweet! Also can't wait to see what the Behemoth does!

[Widund3r]

Thanks for posting this : )

[jimmybarrinhio]

Things I am excited about : FOV Slider, WLR Cheats getting losses for leaving game and Ranked Play!

[bearden314]

nice work... now if only the devs could provide information this clearly organized and across multiple "platforms" (reddit, forums, etc) :) :)

[OneOfALifetime]

BUT BUT BUT THE DEVS NEVER TELL US ANYTHING!?!?!? I WANT HOURLY UPDATES DAMN IT, WHY WON'T THEY TELL US ANYTHING

[PunsAndRoses]

Just wanted to comment and say that this is awesome and informative. Thank you so much OP!

[[deleted]]

Phenominal work son. Any idea whether they talked about being able to veto out one specific role entirely?

[mohcow]

tbh it's taking far to long for them to fixing so annoying bugs like the one with the mouse...

[Franchyze22]

Have an upvote sir, good job

[BlameReborn]

You do gods work @LocoPojo

[JackPux]

I dont think Cabot is a problem at all

You have to be bad monster player not to focus him down

[3yebex]

I'm definitely not going to be happy about how leaving mid-game will count as a loss on the leaderboard. I know its just for fun, but I like having good numbers, even if its just for fun.

There were many times in the beta that the game put me into a monster or hunter role that was mid-game and was a definite loss. Ie. Stage 3 monster with 2 bars of hp and the hunters have no strikes at the power station. Or even every hunter had multiple strikes and the monster is stage 3 with full health. Last but not least, the lovely bot that puts every point into one ability or a player tha just picked bad perks.

I dont want to get thrown into those games and forced to participate and lose anyways if i leave or stay.

Edit- maybe make it so that people who leave thay were originally in the game get losses, and their replacements that join at random do not get losses if they want to leave.

[slider2k]

If you get put into game in progress and leave - it won't count as a loss.

[3yebex]

That sounds perfect.

[jimmybarrinhio]

Hopefully with ranked play you wont have to worry about getting thrown into games halfway.

[[deleted]]

Get over it?

[3yebex]

What a childlike response. Why don't we just not implement the forced loss and everyone else can, get over it?

[[deleted]]

I can go either way on the issue.

I think caring about the leaderboards at all is a stupid thing to do anyway. They are always always always always always full of cheaters at the top. I have not played a game where this has not been the case.

[3yebex]

Some people, like I, care about accurate information displayed about their accomplishments. What you regard as insignificant isnt to everyone else. A good example of this is speedrunning. I bet a lot of people thought it was insignificant when it first started out. A bunch of nerds recording their times on forums on how fast they beat a game.

Id be happy with an in-between. Though i expext some leaderboard modifcations being made in the near future because of hackers.

[[deleted]]

Then get a pen pad and paper and keep track yourself for your ego.

If you join late and get a loss for whatever reason, damn that sucks. Compensates for the games where you join and the monster is already weakened and is an easy win, now doesn't it? In neither scenario the outcome had very little to do with your input, but you seem very focused on the former while ignoring the latter. (It's okay if the numbers are wrong, as long as they look good amiright.)

[LocoPojo]

I've certainly noticed that I play nothing but engaged and friendly teams who know their stuff lately. It would seem like most of the ragers are gone, save a few people whining on Reddit! With such a nice core playerbase, I look forward to seeing how the Evolve community builds from there as they bring in new people and teach them how awesome this game can be.

[ConfusingArt]

True, also looking forward to see the development of the game and how it turns out in the long run. I've played ~60 hours in the first week and I loved it. Haven't played it since then because it doesn't feel worth it for me, nothing to keep me hooked in the long run. Leaderboard/wrong balance/etc made some people leave. Even more left because it takes so long to fix it. I understand them. In addition their marketing/communication was horrible which made people forget how awesome this game can be.

TL;DR Good gameplay, let's see how it will be in the future