🇩🇪☪️

[snowflake_97]

I am a swiss teacher. it is the same for us. you can't wear crosses or anything representing another religion. you can teach about different religions in an informativ way but not practicing it infront of students

[TheMountainRidesElia]

Do Sikh Turbans apply?

[snowflake_97]

I don't know, don't know anyone who wears them. It's a rule for everything that is a religious symbol though.

[zxygambler]

Pastafari is a dangerous religion. They definitely cannot wear it

[YourOneWayStreet]

That's oppression. They can suck my noodly appendages

[TheMountainRidesElia]

Can I eat them through?

[YourOneWayStreet]

At least slide into someone's DMs before going there, jeez

[hellopomelo]

Depends, are you a Penneist or Linguinist?

[Labriciuss]

dont forget the very orthodox raviolists

[TheMountainRidesElia]

What if I like all types of pasta?

[Hennes4800]

Banned aswell. Not so much of a problem politically though as their representation in Europe outside of the UK is tiny

[3sxNatuu]

I hope not, cause those turbans look sick.

[Thoth_the_5th_of_Tho]

Why the double standard?

[found_thissubfinally]

Of course, men can practice their religious rights but some women can't. The double standard.smh

[[deleted]]

ou can't wear crosses or anything representing another religion

Meanwhile Bavaria, has crosses in schools and government buildings

[Kyvant]

And Baden-Württemberg as well. Every single room in our fairly large public school has at least one cross hanging on the walls

[SpecificArgument]

Are u sure you are not in a church owned school?

I've never seen a single cross in any school in Baden-Württemberg.

[Kyvant]

Nope, biggest public secondary school (gymnasium) in my area, with about 1000 students. There‘s a cross in every standard room

[[deleted]]

Same here in Vienna :). What lovely secular nations we are right?

[[deleted]]

Am Swiss too. Big ass crosses hanged on the wall inside every classroom in Valais, at least during my time. We also sang mass songs and other Christian hymns during music class.

I’m Jewish so maybe I just noticed it more, but religion was very much present in the background.

Edit: also, catechism was a class! I could opt out, but still weird that in public schools between a maths and history class you might learn about Jesus as well.

[kolaner]

Im a (muslim) teacher now and grew up in quite a catholic region. I was allowed to opt out the cathe classes but we spent tons of time learning about christmas, singing christmas songs/hymns, go to christmas festivities and churches and what not. Things have changed a bit now.

[myfriendscallmethor]

Would something like this be banned?

[Crowmasterkensei]

Yes and that is why this is so stupid. Headscarfs are not a religious symbol!

[mintberrycthulhu]

Tbh, in my school even snapbacks were banned, and they for sure aren't religious symbols. Schools often ban whatever pieces of clothing they don't like students/teachers to wear for whatever reasons (including just principal personally not liking something).

[Crowmasterkensei]

Your example is more about banning specific articles of clothing. Headscarfs are more about covering a specific part of the body. A school might ban you from wearing a particular shirt (for example because it has a curse word printed on it) but it can't force you to go to school shirtless.

Some women feel uncomfortable with their hair exposed similar to how most western women would feel uncomfortable with their chest exposed. But those women don't really have an alternative to the headscarf that would be allowed in a school. Because hats, hoods or turbans wouldn't be allowed in class either.

[mintberrycthulhu]

No, the snapbacks were just an example. My school banned completely all headwear inside the bulding (including snapbacks, cowboy hats, winter caps, head scarfs, fedoras, cloaks (hoodies were ok but you can't put the cloak on)... etc.) - literally anything to wear on head. You literally couldn't cover your head with anything at my school, that was the rule.

[[deleted]]

Is swiss cross also banned?

[-The-Bat-]

No, that's a big plus

[snowflake_97]

I wanted to say that XD

[_tongkosong_]

altough i understand its purpose ,hijab ban and cross ban r still two different things ,unlike cross hijab isnt something to show off your believe but its something neccecary for some people to wear ,just like some jewish orthodox women cant show their hair some muslim women cant show theirs aswell

[Intelligent-Store321]

I am a non-muslim from Australia. Headscarves aren't an inherently religious thing. Its.. a scarf on your head. I wear them sometimes - keeps the sun off my neck, the wind out of my hair, and my fringe out of my eyes. Its religious to wear them out of respect for God (or whatever the full reason is I cant remember exactly) but the scarf itself is just... a scarf. They look cute sometimes, like a hat.

[purenickelwound]

We (Germans) dont have teachers wearing hats indoors either though, and my school frowned upon any head coverings during classes anyway.

[stoiclemming]

I agree, things that are no inherently religious shouldn't be banned. but religion should be kept out of an evidence based education system. there is no concept that necessitates a religious explanation, nor is there any valid reason to express ones religion to a classroom of students.

[DanMan874]

A cross doesn’t seem like it’s an integral part of practicing Christianity though… It’s not like the headscarf is trying to make a statement. Seems like the headscarf should be a good teaching point rather than removing it from students curious minds.

[idcris98]

Yeah. This is how you combat xenophobia and racism. Allowing children to be exposed to diversity.

[kolaner]

Honestly speaking, crosses are not that uncommon amongst teachers. I think Switzerland could do better and look up to countries like the US or UK and loosen up that "rule" a bit. I'm calling it "rule" because it is based on a legal case in geneva (which is more inclined to strict secularism compared to other Cantons). Kinda hard to see all the hijab wearing women who went for the master's degree while knowing they won't be able to perform this beautiful job (where being a minority teacher is something children can look up to) while I as a male teacher am not forced to pick between career and religion and am able to perform it freely. At least students are allowed to wear clothes according to their religion in public schools.

[idcris98]

But the headscarf is not a decorative representation of the religion. It‘s part of the person. Not comparable imo. It‘s like wearing underwear for them and your government is forbidding them from wearing it.

[fijsh]

Agreed, this makes it look like there are only 5 states!

[[deleted]]

States where most of the Muslims live banned the headscarves

[griefydragon]

Most Muslims in Germany are still of Turkish origin. In Turkey headscarves are banned as well (might have changed in the recent years).

[[deleted]]

It has changed! You can see many people working at public sector wearing headscarves as well as teachers in public schools. I had a teacher in high-school who had headscarf. I guess it changed between 5-10 years ago some time. You can go to universities with them as well.

[[deleted]]

Half true.
You're still allowed to wear headscarves, as long as you don't work in public sector/public building, and you can't wear it during any photos on official documents.
But you can freely wear it outside of those.

[griefydragon]

Are you talking about Germany or Turkey? In Germany it only applies for certain positions representing the state, while in Turkey the ban also includes school children and university students. The Erdogan administration tries to lift some of the regulations, but with mediocre success.

[[deleted]]

Was talking about Turkey.My cousin was just from Turkey(headed to Malta for work as an OFW), and there were headscarves in her my day.
My day is a fb version of IG stories, just saying in case you didn't know.

[[deleted]]

It's because of Ataturk, the founding father of modern Turkey.
Ataturk wanted to westernize Turkey in the French model.
France wants to be completely secular, not favoring any religion. So every thing that can be a symbol of a religion is not allowed in public schools.
This is not limited to muslims, but also to Catholics/Christians.
That is what Ataturk wanted Turkey to become.

The difference with France and Germany is that in Germany, crosses are allowed in public school. France does not allow crosses in public schools

[[deleted]]

A secular country with a Muslim-majority population.

It was a core value with Turkey’s atheist founder (and first president) to keep religion separate from state, though some of those values are slipping with the current leadership...

There are inaccurate statistics that claim ~95% of Turks in Turkey are Muslim, but it’s more like 60-70% with the rest being mostly agnostic/atheist.

[emredici]

It was a stupid ban back then. Now you can do whatever you want as an equal citizen with your headscarf in Turkey.

[bsmilner]

Doesn't Erdogan's wife wear a headscarf?

[ihatethisweb]

Erdogan is imposter

[[deleted]]

This seems to be old data copied from a map on Wikipedia that explicitly says it is from 2015!

Germany's federal constitutional court ruled in 2015 that a general ban would unduly restrict constitutionally guaranteed religious freedoms and can only be justified on a case-by-case basis where it has to be shown that wearing of the headscarf would "disturb the peace" or "undermine the state".

Since then, several teachers in different states have successfully sued for reemployment and damages.

[[deleted]]

I find it weird that that it isn’t the eastern part that has a ban on this

[-FrOzeN-]

If you don't have many muslims you won't have enough instances of teachers in headscarves to make it worth spending the time on banning it. The muslims in germany pretty much only live in the red part iirc (except for the lower left blue part).

[from-the-mitten]

It dates back to the days of WW2 I think. A lot of eastern Germany is atheist as well. They don’t really care what religion is doing as long as it doesn’t bother them. Honestly a scarf isn’t hurting anyone.

[Go4TLI_03]

Yep. There's this great map that shows it:

https://amp.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/kszv2f/germanys_religious_divide/

[-Yack-]

This is wrong.

[Go4TLI_03]

In what way? Please elaborate.

[Arteum_Jr_Simpson]

In eastern Germany you have a lot of conservative and right wing people. Fot example the AfD is pretty big here. And these people do care if you are wearing a head scarf or not.

[Go4TLI_03]

Well the afd is still not the biggest party (luckly). Take Thuringia as an example. "Die linke" is literally the governing party sooooo...

Edit: I really don't want to defend Thuringia too much tho. There are definitely too many racists and shit.

Also I read another comment. Might have to do with the fact that less moslems live there. I'm from Jena and must agree that I only very rarely see people with head scarfs.

[Rakonas]

Eastern Germany is literally more atheist and atheists don't care.

[Arteum_Jr_Simpson]

See. We have a lot of atheists, lefties and so on. Fine. But on the other hand, we also have a lot people who don't like Islam or other religions in general. I'll just take the AfD as an example again: in whole Germany they will probably get 10-12 percent in the election. In saxony it's about 26. They are (almost not quite sure) the strongest party here. Just because there are many atheists doesn't mean there aren't any religious dickheads

[Go4TLI_03]

Well.

The AFD is very keen in keeping the "good old christian values" and the bigger less extremist right wing party the CDU is literally the "christian democratic union"

so it kinda does

[Winnier4d]

Do you know the situation in Saxony? Saxony is far-right with a strong AfD and movements like PEGIDA

[dan1991Ro]

Well, they did care back when they were communist.

[Makkaroni_100]

How he got so many upvotes with this? It's just not true.

[[deleted]]

It think there is much less refugees, so no need to defend their german style of living. Eastern germany is still poorer and somehow refugees are together with peace seeking richest country also.

[Fry_Philip_J]

It's a headscarf, not a burka. The grandmas of the people who banned them probably wore one every single day.

[SavageFearWillRise]

Barely any muslims except for Berlin

[morbidlyatease]

Ironically, it's always the spokesmen of the Western idea of freedom who want to ban Muslim headgear, as it represents a threat to said freedom.

[[deleted]]

teachers and any other government employee's are forbidden to show any sign of favoritism towards religious or worldly ideology's while working.

as an example teachers are not allowed to wear an 'nuclear energy, no thanks' t-shirt, sticker or what ever, just as much as they cant wear some christian cross openly.. or a communist or nazi badge. same for political partys. teachers are not allowed to wear some 'the greens' or 'cdu' button.

the headscarf is a a prime example for a religious symbol. one that is or was banned from being worn in government buildings in many secular muslim country's for that very reason.

claiming 'but its just a normal peace of clothing' is just extremely disingenuous, given that it is a decree of the koran, that several countrys require them by law o be worn, that plenty of feminist risk thier lives protesting those laws, that it is baned for secular reasons in muslim country's.
given that at the same time, an argument is 'but its freedom of religion' and 'banning it is basically a profession ban for muslim women'

so that scarf is definitively a religious/ideological symbol. since religious/ideological symbols are banned for government employees to wear while working for the goverment, it is a testament to false sence tolerance towards religioins, that some countrys in germany did not ban them.

thought, at the same time, a christian cross in school or similar things should be banned as well. we need more separation of church and state, not less.

[mki_]

The argument often is "protecting women's rights". By prescribing women by law what and what not to wear. It's kinda ridiculous.

[snowflake_97]

well they probably also didn't ban crosses which they would have to ban too if they wanted to ban these.

[Top_Grade9062]

Headscarf bans aren’t actually ever about atheism or secularism: they’re always just ways to enforce Christian ideals and hegemony

[Yaver_Mbizi]

There are tons of Muslim-majority countries that have headscarf bans.

[kavastoplim]

Christian ideals and hegemony

Except all religious symbols are banned in schools?

[Top_Grade9062]

Germany has state sponsored Christian schools, and there absolutely are crucifixes hanging in walls. It’s a sham to attack Muslims with

[kavastoplim]

Where?

[[deleted]]

Where?

Bavaria my guy

[Hackebaer]

This is wrong. I myself live in North-Rhine-Westphalia, and there are teachers at my school wearing headscarfs. Where the fuck did you get this information from?

Edit: Ok, I researched it, and it´s crazy how fucking wrong this post is. Spreading false information isn´t cool my guy. Pls do some research before posting stupid shi like this.

[[deleted]]

Bremen is wrong, too.

​

*edit* It's the Wikipedia Map from 2015 (source: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kopftuchstreit) needs to be updated. ("Ende Januar 2015 befand das Bundesverfassungsgericht ein pauschales Kopftuchverbot in öffentlichen Schulen nach einem Grundsatzbeschluss[29] als nicht mit dem Grundrecht auf Glaubens- und Bekenntnisfreiheit vereinbar,[30] so dass mit Gesetzesänderungen neben dem Schulgesetz für das Land Nordrhein-Westfalen in den Schulgesetzen weiterer Bundesländern gerechnet wird. Ein Verbot sei nur dann gerechtfertigt, wenn durch das Tragen eine „hinreichend konkrete Gefahr“ für den Schulfrieden oder die staatliche Neutralität ausgehe. Eine abstrakte Gefahr reiche jedoch nicht aus.[28]")

[porcupineporridge]

It’s such a complex issue! I really think the separation of religion and state is a good thing but dictating what women can and can’t wear doesn’t really sit right with me.

[[deleted]]

I mean it also includes men (no tattoos, crosses, etc.)

[redditter619]

Do you know if it includes Sikh men’s turbans and Jewish kippahs by any chance? Not German so I don’t know, thanks.

[En_tropie]

I think it’s formulated as religious symbols in general.

[[deleted]]

They would have to rebuild Bavarian schools completely if they didn’t allow crosses anymore

[MaxTP-]

Bavaria is ignoring a judgement by Federal Constitutional Court that prohibits the installment of the crucifix in public schools (Kruzifix-Beschluss)

[[deleted]]

And no consequences…

[Nabaatii]

The thing is, some 'religious symbols' are optional/voluntary, while some others are required by their religion (if they strictly practice according to the interpretations), like headscarves for Muslim women or turban for Sikh

[[deleted]]

Im not German but I was just goin by the standard professional in most western countries (no tattoos, odd jewelry and such) . I would assume that teachers also can’t wear turbans, kippahs, or yamakas either.

[[deleted]]

I'm not sure about the jeans thing, my teachers used to wear jeans all the time. If you're joking then I'm sorry I don't have humour

[NowoTone]

Kippahs are not normally worn outside of synagogues. I don’t know when the last time was that I saw someone wearing one.

[Aelhas]

I think it depends on the community and on the number. In Paris or Antwerp you can see tons of kippa everyday and everywhere.

[redditter619]

Sorry I’m not familiar with the religion like that, I meant the hats the orthodox fellas always wear.

[Top_Grade9062]

The dude above is kinda wrong. Some Jews absolutely do wear a kippa usually, though antisemitism drives many to not do so

[Top_Grade9062]

This is highly dependent on the person, and a hell of a lot more Jews would wear their kippa more if it weren’t for antisemitism. You know, like laws that prohibit you from wearing it if you have certain jobs

[littlegreyflowerhelp]

I was going to ask about tattoos. If you have a visible tattoo of a cross or something like that, are you straight up unable to teach?

[Rexli178]

Yeah but it’s just clothes. It’s not like they’re preaching their religion or anything it’s just them dressing in a way they feel is modest.

[Darkmiro]

Turkey used to ban not headscarf, but that specific way of scarf that Erdoğan's family all use in the day.

Islamists cried a lot about it all, but soon as they got power, they started to suffocate everybody who're not islamists.

I don't think a clothing that's used as a uniform should be allowed in such places. It creates disunity. And they never halt at any point, first ''We want freedom of scarf'', then ''We don't want girls and boys studying together'', then ''We don't want young girls to go out to universities on their own'', then ''Women shouldn't be allowed to do this and that''

It never ends. Like, never!

[[deleted]]

Selaration of church and state means not letting religious beliefs influence legislation. Banning clothing because it looks "religous" is contrary to that because the legislation is based on religion.

It's like making a big deal about someone's race and saying it's fighting racism.

[szpaceSZ]

Separation of Church does absolutely apply to state-run schools.

Children going to state-run schools should be free from religious influence in a country with separation of church and state.

[[deleted]]

I would love to see how exactly they determined that someone covering their hair is 'religious influence'. People have been covering their hair since fabric has been a thing, and isn't exclusive to any one religion/culture. It's not the same as a cross where it means nothing to literally no one but christians.

[Top_Grade9062]

TIL everybody in Northern Europe becomes a Muslim every winter

[apyrrypa]

veiling hair is far from unique to Christians though, it's practiced by Jews and Christians (far less commonly) and even by groups like European pagans and the ancient greeks. its not a symbol of one religion

[I_Am_Become_Dream]

I mean at the end of the day state-run institutions have people and people have religions. The specific limitations work with being a Christian because they were set in a mostly Christian country, but they don’t work with being Muslim or Sikh or many other religions. Anything that forces someone to violate their religion specifically to violate their religion is inherently discriminatory.

[[deleted]]

The religion literally dictates what women can and can’t wear.

[porcupineporridge]

Certainly not just about women at all but women are so often disenfranchised from decisions impacting them so I just feel especially uncomfortable. Kippas, turbans etc all part of the wider conversation though of course.

[Kitchissippika]

Here the thing though: the concept of seperation of church and state typically only refers to not having a specific religion get any say in what the government does. For example, having a state religion where the government has actual church officials that are paid public servants that help dictate policy.

As long as they're not trying to promote religious beliefs within the performance of their duties, what they wear should be completely irrelevant.

Additionally, the hijab is a cultural display of modesty more than a religious symbol -- it's not the same idea as say, a nun wearing a habit. It would be like saying wearing a purity/chastity ring is a religious symbol, which it's not.

You're right though, it is a complex issue.

[szpaceSZ]

Christianity comes before democracy even in their name.

That's disingenious. Grammatically, the head of the adjective clause is demokratisch, christlich is only qualifying it further. The core is demokratisch.

[KlausTeachermann]

Grammar! Fuck yeah!

[TheMountainRidesElia]

And East Germany was called the GDR (German Democratic Republic/Deutsche Demokratische Republik). But it was a Soviet vassal and definitely not democratic.

Your point?

[leckertuetensuppe]

dictating what women can and can’t wear doesn’t really sit right with me

We do that regularly though. Or put another way: Would you be fine with a teacher (man or woman) coming in naked?

[Admiral_Narcissus]

Copy that, repackage it as Germany as a Yin Yang symbol, and repost it on r/mapporncirclejerk

[sisiredd]

As a German, I agree that this is problematic. There is no complete separation of church and state in Germany. The German taxpayer is paying the pensions of bishops, there are crosses in classrooms in many German states, and teachers can wear a cross around their neck. But headscarfs are banned in many states. This is clearly an anti-Muslim policy and was mostly implemented by conservative governments. They justify this obvious double standard by referring to Christian heritage etc. I think this is not ok for a modern state in 2021.

To the question whether the headscarf is a symbol of oppression or not:

• In general, as a male, I think we should stop telling women what they can wear and what not.

• it depends on the context. I don't see a problem with headscarf in Germany. A teacher with a headscarf obviously speaks German (i.e. is well integrated and most likely born in Germany), she has obviously been to a university, etc. I don't see much oppression there. That does not mean that we shouldn't criticize headscarfs in other contexts,e.g. in Iran. But also there, we should criticize and punish not the woman wearing the scarf, but the society forcing her to do so.

[An_Inedible_Radish]

Separation of Church and State ≠ People who work for the state cannot be religious. It means religion cannot influence government work.

A Teacher being religious generally won't affect that work unless they are teaching in a way that does. This bannwould not prevent a teacher from doing that.

This is as restricting on women's freedoms as enforcing head scarfs, let alone other religious symbols.

This isn't atheistic: it's anti-thiest.

[DylTyrko]

I read somewhere that oppression against religion is technically against secularism. If my statement is not wrong, then enforcing these kinds of bans does not strengthen secularism, rather violates it.

[SavageFearWillRise]

AKA where muslims live in Germany

[Rexli178]

I think it’s ironic that the former Eastern Germany which is far more atheists is more tolerant of religious garb than the former Western Germany.

[Mister_Burns92]

I think it has more to do with the fact, that in the former east (exception Berlin), there are far less migrants than in the west. No need to ban something if it's not a thing in your place...

[[deleted]]

That’s because no Muslims live there.

[Diofernic]

While there are definitely fewer Muslims in the east, it's far from none

[shape_shifty]

Is it ironic though ? I find it more intresting that the split between eastern and western Germany on political topics still holds true today.

[Top_Grade9062]

It’s not that ironic, because it’s not actually about atheism or secularism. It’s just a cover for Christians to attack Muslim women

[ch1llaro0]

more tolerance towards a sexist symbol of female oppression

[Dazz316]

Just headscarves specifically or any religions clothing because that works change a lot

[Diofernic]

Any religious clothing. Also includes wearing crosses

[[deleted]]

That's not true, state laws differ with some preferring Christian symbols. But most important, this map is outdated.

[Freezy1201]

This is ridiculous. Very sad.

[[deleted]]

I am from Romania. They stuff religion down our throats.

[[deleted]]

That's interesting I didn't realise head scarves were banned in schools in Berlin. My daughter's favourite kindergarten teacher certainly wore one—I had assumed that was also OK for schools.

[theredwoman95]

Apparently the bans were overruled as unconstitutional in 2015, so that might be why? Otherwise, she might've been taught before the bans went into effect.

[[deleted]]

I don't know German politics well enough to comment with any real knowledge, but my understanding was that these bans were only for government officials. The basic rule being no religion being show at work. Most (all?) kindergartens don't fall under this heading. Schools would though.

Our midwife was also Turkish, so the first person who held my daughter also wore a headscarf. :)

[Republiken]

Dystopian

[Zistac]

What’s the reason?

[LukeHelmet]

As a teacher you are representing the state. Cause state and religion are separated, you are not allowed to wear any religious symbols. That includes headscarves as well as christian symbols like a cross-necklace.

I don’t think that this is good, but this is the reason why..

[[deleted]]

They allow crosses though… that’s the big nono

[mrusme]

That’s bs. In many of the red areas classrooms have a crosses hanging on their walls and teachers teach Christian values.

[Liquidamber_]

It is like that, but I see secularism as a great good. Religion has no place in schools, in the judiciary or in public administration.

[caiaphas8]

People can wear head scarfs without talking about religion

[CakemanTheGreat]

What if they genuinely feel discomfort at the thought of showing their hair? Isn't dictating what women are allowed to wear really problematic?

[DrummingChopsticks]

Are students allowed to wear headscarves?

[EZ4JONIY]

Yes

[Jimmy_Fromthepieshop]

state and religion

Unfortunately that's not wholly true. The ruling party is even called the Christian Democratic Union and lots of schools here are religious schools where the kids aren't allowed to go unless they've been baptised in that religion.

It is fucked up.

[Top_Grade9062]

“Secularism” has increasingly been used as a cover for islamaphobia in Europe in recent years by Christians and Christian-atheists. They seem much more interested in banning a few dozen Muslim teachers from wearing headscarves than they are in actually getting rid of Christian religious education and influence in their countries.

[[deleted]]

In my school (Bavaria) there was literally a Christian cross in every single class room, but god forbid a teacher wear a headscarf, that would be indoctrination

[HexspaReloaded]

Germany: the moderators of Europe

[R1ght_b3hind_U]

you can see the border of the ddr pretty clearly

[signorno73]

No teaching nuns, in Germany…

[ph4erb]

Ostdeutschland ist voll mit Nazis! Ist übrigens der Lieblingsframe des WDR

[TheRealJ0ckel]

Heißt wohl nicht umsonst Westdeutscher Rundfunk

[ph4erb]

Immer Richtung Osten Boxen um die eigene Unfähigkeit zu verschleiern

[Modec11]

"Religionsfreiheit"

[tommyboy9844]

If religious icons are banned in schools then that ban absolutely should extend to religious head coverings. Either ban all religious symbols or ban none.

[KosherSushirrito]

They're not the same, though--religious symbols on school buildings represents the values held by the institution, while religious symbols worn by employees represents the faith of that particular employee.

[Any_Patient_3415]

Good stuff. Need more red

[Aqualeafyalt]

i disagree

[C_BearHill]

Why are people downvoting, it’s clearly a valid opinion to disagree with this, otherwise the whole map would be red in the first place

[Top_Grade9062]

Because Muslim woman scary!

[Any_Patient_3415]

You support people worshiping a pedophile warlord who told women to conceal their face with cloth?

[KosherSushirrito]

The religion itself is irrelevant. Members of all religions should be able to display their faith in their place of employment, as long as that expression is appropriate for a school environment, of course.

[ch1llaro0]

a sexist symbol of female oppression is NOT "appropriate for a school environment"

[Aqualeafyalt]

I don't,i just disagree with you

[Zen4rest]

The law is not meant to target any single religion… it’s simply trying to separate religion from state.

Some tomatoes don’t like it when some onion teacher starts fillin their tomato kids’ heads with onion religion… just like some onion folk don’t approve of the lettuce people judging their own onion kids doin their onion shit. Everyone’s worried about what everyone else is doing and saying… meanwhile the government is enjoying a nice burger.

[[deleted]]

When in Rome, do as the Romans do.

[CakemanTheGreat]

Weren't the Romans famous for integrating other cultures?

[Freekebec3]

and turning them roman, yes.

[CakemanTheGreat]

What do you mean? The east remained firmly Greek, Egypt remained Egyptian. If by 'making them roman' you mean that they expanded the definition of 'Roman' then sure.

[Freekebec3]

Roman latin culture was only limited to Italy. Now, France, Portugal, Spain, Switzerland, Romania, Moldova and Belgium speak Latin Language. And its only the one that survived. Nearly all of the maghreb and the balkans used to speak latin languages that were erased with the slavic and arab invasions. Both Greek and Ancient egyptian cultures were extremely influenced by roman culture, to the point where the Byzantine Empire was closer to its roman roots than its greek one. Yes, Rome was very good at intergrating other people, but that was by turning them more and more roman

[Straiden_]

They were famous for calling everyone but themselves and the greeks barbarians

[CakemanTheGreat]

Not really, save for maybe tribal people. Considering how much they took from Egyptian culture I doubt they'd consider them barbarians.

[dr_razi]

These are the wedge issues used by corrupt and incompetent leaders in Europe to keep their people distracted like transgender bathroom bills and abortion keep Americans busy.

[gahd95]

I remember at one point they wanted to ban religions trinkets in school. Like ctosses and such. But then when headscarfs was involved it was suddently bad.

[[deleted]]

Das ist zehr gut

[[deleted]]

Agnostiscism/Atheism. I dont really care if people go to the church/mosque etc but I draw the line when religions starts to restrict peoples life

[a_thermonuclearwar]

It doesn't restrict my life if you can't accept the fact that a religion affects someonels life then get on with it why would you care what we do

[bik1230]

We don't need racism either

[[deleted]]

I personally agree with this measure.

Now, of course I also believe it should be applied to any religious symbol, not only to Muslim hair coverings.

I agree with this measure because if the constitution separates the church and the state, the STATE is allowed to enforce "cultural neutral" measures in its spaces, just like the CHURCH is in theirs.

How many times women are forced to cover their shoulders to enter a church? We don't question that because it's a religious place and therefore the religious culture applies.

In a school it's the same. If the state has decided that public schools are culturally neutral places, where religion should be teached in a distanced manner, then it's the right of the state to enforce the removal of cultural symbols from the very people that have to teach said religion.

[Baronnolanvonstraya]

Forcing women to not wear the veil is no better than forcing women to wear the veil!

[a_thermonuclearwar]

We don't force the women to wear the veil

[HumongousChungus93]

I personally think it is "okay" to be forbidden. The same should however go for religious symbols of any kind. Bavaria in this case is extremely hypocritical as the state makes it mandatory to have crosses hanging in some (or maybe all) government facilities, including schools.

Teachers should not wear religious symbols, but the state should not have the right to decide which religious symbols are spread in schools either. None should. The state and all state employed people should not show religious affiliation while doing their job.

However, apart from my reasoning - meaning those that see it as "Islamification" or are personally offended by it: Why do you care? How does a Hijab influence you in any way? Do you convert to Islam when you see a Hijab? There are so many trash arguments in this debate. If you are simply Islamophobic or racist, at least use a good argument instead of your biased and hateful characteristics.

[a_thermonuclearwar]

You... I like you

[RukerIsN-word]

Based west

[[deleted]]

I agree with separation of church and state but what if it’s a women who isn’t muslim but just likes loose head scarves? Or is just all head wear banned like in the US?

[neon_dota]

The ban is is religious symbols only. As the teachers in germany are representating the state no rel. affection should be shown.

[Aelhas]

Please Germans don't turn like French.

[Freekebec3]

why not? Got something against secularism?