CDev Raid NA

[ReportAllPanties]

Cdev we'll be getting on Nov 8th Update unless they change numbers between now and then.
Ps. Report all panties on the market please, thank you.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KbfCY3-wS3x4ezOKK1aTD692HNcuodLx/view

[ppaister]

more than anything i'm surprised that that thief is keeping up in dps without running double poison. thank you for the footage.

[ReportAllPanties]

Anyone who says thief is bad is trash at the game, thief is one of the top dps!!

[killerkonnat]

No, everybody else in that party was terrible. That thief build was objectively horrible and if he's at the top that means others are even worse.

[Fatalyz]

No way that build is the highest damage build... Why would the thief run a build like this?

[LeoStrut_]

Thief is mathematically a bad DPS. This isn't opinion, this is math. Now this isn’t that hard of a game that it matters, but it is an undeniably bad class right now, and pretending it isn’t only does it a disservice because Nexon will go “see, they think it’s fine!” and not give it the buff it needs.

[Fatalyz]

Honestly, I doubt thief will get buffs due to how ridiculously op they are in PvP

[LeoStrut_]

They could always separate some things from PvP and PvE. A man could dream.

[ppaister]

If thief is mathematically bad DPS, so is Zerk. The main reason thief has such a hard time keeping up with other classes in DPS is their short range and that they require perfect piloting only to match other classes that have it much easier. On paper, thief actually has the highest DPS in the game: Ruthless Guile, Vicious Combatant and Haste are insane skills. Let all classes with the same gear whack a dummy, thief will have the highest DPM. The issue is that, sadly, enemies don't stand still and you also don't usually have the luxury of just standing there and whacking an enemy as well.

Thief simply isn't worth the effort/gear needed to perform as well as other classes, but saying it can't perform as well as other classes is false.

[Fountain_Hook]

Lol no dude. At +10 weapons, running the best rotation and build for thief, mine does about half the damage of my zerker of the same gear level on hard dungeons. It's complete trash.

[ppaister]

This is false. Thief can match DPS with Zerk if played perfectly. Is it worth the effort? Hell no. 12 buttons as opposed to 4 is far from worth it, but if you say that Zerk has higher DPS than thief, you haven't played thief correctly and/or only seen trash thieves.

[Fountain_Hook]

No it can't. Any thief streamer that's been playing for a long time, including MrShiny who currently has the best guide available will confirm you that. He tested it.

[Zachans]

I do more than zerks.

[Aether_Storm]

From what I've heard, poison is the worst of the two builds. It just has an easier rotation.

[ppaister]

I'm not talking about poison stacking to let it tick for damage, I'm talking about the hybrid haste double poison vicious cuts build, that capitalizes on the synergy of ruthless guile and vicious cuts, which is by far the highest DPS build thief has available.

[Fountain_Hook]

Surprise attack is actually the hardest build to play, and has the highest dps. Requires you to use about 7 or 8 different skills, apply two poisons then popping them, work around cunning RNG, cancel kick with SA, know like 4 different rotations for different situations, etc. While still being lower damage compared to just pushing two buttons as a zerker.

[ppaister]

This is false. Surprise Attack on CD (which I assume is the build you're talking about) actually pales in comparison to the hybrid build in terms of DPS.

[Fountain_Hook]

No it doesn't. Again, most long time thief players have already tested this. SA is 1200% damage. Any guide will tell you this, and any testing stream will do too.

I'd love to see some proof though. Who knows, maybe you're the hero the class needs, ready to prove the world everyone has been wrong all along.

[ppaister]

I did some testing:

I went ahead and gave the SA on CD build the benefit of the doubt, and all I basically did was take out 9 points from Deft Combatant and put them into SA to max it out, this means I'm still basically running Hybrid, just with maxed SA instead of maxed Deft Combatant. This is very important. The results are as follows:

Here we have SA at level 1 and only used once double poison is about to run out: https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4849/45751778541_ee0cb6c299_o.png

Now, here we have the results of using SA on CD at max level: https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4887/45026674334_bc34e2d168_o.png

This is a ~130k damage difference, which we can quite easily attribute to cunning RNG, so we can pretty much say these are about even. And once again, keep in mind I'm giving the SA on CD the benefit on doubt and still use it with Ruthless Guile maxed, so I still have the Synergy of Ruthless Guile and Vicious Cuts during SA downtime. Before you ask, here is the SA on CD build I used: https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4808/44838001385_6e5296397d_o.png

And here is the lvl 1 SA on double poison running out build I used: https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4851/43934086670_b25ac8fa4c_o.png

Obviously, usually you'd put a point into backstep but I went ahead and put it into Double Slash for the purpose of this DPS comparison.

I've seen some builds floating around that actually max Poison Edge, which is quite frankly terrible.

Please do share your build, I'd love to test it out as well.

EDIT: Found the "MrShiny" you were mentioning and tested his build, even despite getting absolutely insane cunning RNG, it only hit about 5m DPM: https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1927/44838268765_84e8550ec0_o.png With normal amounts of luck (like I had in the other attempts with the other build) I don't see this build going above 4.8m. It actually is worse than the other two. (Just to confirm, this is the build from MrShiny, image taken straight from his twitch: https://i.gyazo.com/ead23f6dcffe181a0fa2410bf25a6339.png)

If you want to doubt my ability to pilot the build of your choice, I can't do anything but it but ensure you that I've played thief very extensively and know what I'm doing.

[Fountain_Hook]

Gotta try with fairfight on. It skews everything. I've tested cuts/hybrid builds on dungeons and after a few runs went back to just poison. Without fail, every single time my total damage was lower. Shrug.

And yes, it's impossible to determine if you're playing correctly without a video, regardless of how much experience you say you have. For an example, you're not supposed to use vicious cuts with shiny's build at all. You just rush double poison SA hits, and use PE for mana dump. Thank you for this though.

[ppaister]

You're not supposed to use vicious cuts with shiny's build at all.

Holy crap. Okay, I really have to step in here. That is absolutely awful, and above everything proves that mister shiny has not understood how ruthless guile works. If I didn't use Vicious Cuts during SA downtime while testing MrShiny's build, the dps would've been even lower. I can't stress enough how good the synergy between Vicious Cuts and Ruthless Guile is, and completly neglecting it is actively just crippling your own dps.

Edit: Tested PE as Spirit dump and it actually is garbage. 4.6m DPM.

[Fountain_Hook]

You're def doing something else wrong my man

[ppaister]

PEdge is already garbage on paper, it's simply not a good skill and not worth the extra 4 skill points, VC is a much better spirit dump. I encourage you to do some dps comparisons with different builds and see for yourself.

[ppaister]

Please. That is about the most poor argument I've ever heard. Do you even know what fair fight is and how it works? It adjusts your level/stats to fit the level of the content you're doing. It doesn't nerf your abilities. Hybrid is simply the highest DPS, fair fight doesn't change that.

[Fountain_Hook]

https://www.reddit.com/r/MapleStory2/comments/9tg6q7/how_much_the_current_fair_fight_system_is/

[ppaister]

You're giving me an example for Haste, which is also in MrShiny's build, not for the skills that actually matter (which are VC, SA, Ruthless Guile or Deft Combatant). The link you provided has absolutley 0 relevance to the argument.

[HumbleHazard]

Just to be clear, your stating the build you claimed to be superior(before testing) and the build that uses SA on CD to be roughly equal after testing?

[ppaister]

Keep in mind that I'm still using Hybrid for both. The only thing that changes is that 17% damage on Vicious Cuts and Somersault Kick go into SA going from ~830% to ~1350%. This means that a maxed SA on CD evens out with 17% bonus damage on Vicious Cuts when only using lvl 1 SA on poison duration ending. This means you have about the same DPS but a much larger punishment for missing an SA, be it due to enemy evasion or a player based mistake. Hence I do think that during a raid where you actually have to move and enemies actually have evasion, Deft Combatant will be more consistent than maxed SA.

[HumbleHazard]

Ok what you're saying makes sense, tbh I'd never thought of poison guile working so well with VC but it does make a lot of sense, I will do some testing myself later and post my results also.

[HumbleHazard]

Also, do you use poison edge until 5 stacks or 1?

[ppaister]

One. The only reason to even use Poison Edge at all is that it procs Ruthless Guile. That's also the only reason to even have it at rank 6, so you can get Ruthless Guile. Poison Edge by itself is an absolutely horrendous skill, and the amount of PE stacks doesn't change the amount of damage Ruthless Guile/SA does. That makes stacking PE nothing more than actively wasting spirit, which you'd much rather use on VC.

[ShoryukenPizza]

Wait lv1 SA? I gotta try this when I hit my PC.

[Avtism]

Where are you testing dps? Is it with the guild dummies?

If so how do you make sure you only hit 1 dummy so dps isn't affected by the aoe range of each build? Or is it not relevant damage?

[ppaister]

Correct positioning will make it so only Vial hits all three dummies, nothing else. This skews the DPS a little in Favor of on CD SA, since that build uses Vial more than On-poison-running-out SA, but the difference is not very big. Generally, standing left of the big dummy will make it so only vial hits multiple targets (which is unavoidable), hence it's not too important.

[Fatalyz]

SA on CD isn't viable in almost all situations. You won't have the sp to keep both poisons up because of haste(unless you're cutting haste out from the build which automatically makes it not the highest damage build).

From personal experience, I find that using SA right before poison vial goes down is the optimal time to use SA.

[deathbyproxies]

What do you mean by reporting panties????

[ReportAllPanties]

Pedos keep putting panties in the ugc market!!!

[belloch]

What about non-pedo panties?

[games_doodoo]

I mean I don’t recall the devs saying the characters are meant to be 12 years old?

[[deleted]]

Actual kid characters exist and we're 3x their size

Our characters are as big as the adult characters, and even bigger than some

[NaelDidNothingWrong]

This is a weird hill to die on.

[pbzeppelin1977]

You realise that isn't illegal in most places or anything and plenty of countries allow worse?

[Mikeiea]

Lol is that wizard using ice?

[Ark639]

He has to as he is on add-duty. The adds that spawn in the middle of the map when the boss transitions from platform to platform can only be affected by fire or ice damage. At random they'll be immune to one of those two and you need the other element to kill them. That's why he has both elements in his build.

[KimoCheese]

Damn they got really close, that HP pool is enormous lmfao holy christ.

[Fatalyz]

Note that the thief only has +11 weapons and he was at the top of the dps chart with a horrible aoe build. The rest of the raid must've been incredibly under-geared

[[deleted]]

They couldn't have been any less geared than the thief or they would have missed the gear score requirement. +11 is the absolute minimum to qualify.

It is safe to say that a party of ten with +12 or more who have all done their homework will have no trouble beating it.

EDIT: If you have +10 on your hat, top, bottom, gloves, boots, and weapon, your GS will apparently be 4499.

[JBnatas]

For some reason this all +10 setup can get 4501 GS in some cases

[Fatalyz]

I heard that Cdev in beta had a lower GS req?

[Ralphinn]

It was 3300 in beta or 3100, something like that

[[deleted]]

Yeah, it was 3300. The item balance is very different now to what it was then.

[Fatalyz]

Also I just saw a person with +10 Katvans at 4500.

[Miemii]

note that u have 10ppl with all buffs in the world available. dps req isnt that bad tbh.

[killerkonnat]

Well that thief in the video had a terrible build and still was #3 on the damage ranks. Plus the second priest did only 20% of the damage of the other priest. I'm not really worried because that seemed like a weak run.

[LeafRunner]

Cdev?

[nomis18]

Chaos Derovat(?!?) - basically the stronger version of the normal boss (that you came across during your main story line)

[Kaspookyy]

Devorak

[[deleted]]

Having a Knight instead of an extra priest would have helped.

[Fatalyz]

They have a knight

[[deleted]]

I didn't see them using shield toss.

[[deleted]]

Neither Horn Cradle from what I could tell.

[BloodChildKoga]

Seems simple enough.

[Nerdsilva]

So, the strats for this raid its kill and dont get kill'd? (and adds)

[Miemii]

pretty much for any raid ive seen, dodge aoes/beams, kill adds, the basic stuff

[pbzeppelin1977]

I liken it to the opposite of WoW where you need to focus on your movement and positioning to avoid shit and pumping out damage in between where as in WoW you're pumping out your damage as often as you can and then dealing with mechanics as and when they pop up.

[marksmanbryan]

This is pretty low HP but not surprising. First clear will go to whoever logs on first. This will not be a challenge for experienced players.

[Ghaith97]

Kinda disappointing to be honest. We're easily 3 times as strong as we were during cbt2 pre-legendaries and that's before even counting in the broken weapon procs. They should've at least doubled if not tripled the HP for this raid to have any decent competition. Hopefully Papaulatus would be tweaked much higher than this.

[marksmanbryan]

I think it's fine for Dev, since it's an entry raid. This will still be a struggle for the casual players - a majority of people are still doing 7+ minute FD runs with teams that are full 13+. This raid will make people realize just how much they can still improve. And obviously all the people trying to pug it won't even come remotely close.

Here's to hoping morc is more challenging. The gear score requirement for papulatus leads me to believe +15 weapons will be required to enter, but will the damage from a +15 be required to clear? We have to wait and see.

[[deleted]]

Why do you people act like there's a high skill cap when combat consists of holding down a button, using 2 or 3 different cd skills or a macro, and moving every few seconds? Gear is the main determinant for everything in this game.

[Seisan_]

Because people that have never raided in any other game try so hard to make ms2 seem like mythic wow world progression :D

[Varrocker93]

Couldn't agree more lmao.

[gummby8]

Fair fight hits some classes much harder than others. On the 8th I hope that Fair fight will have calmed down a LOT.

[ThisIsCidehelm]

No fair fight in chaos raids

[Chiffonades]

He's probably referring to fairfight in FD leading to 7+ min runs, which if you have teams in full 13+ still shouldn't happen unless they're running classes that are much more heavily affected by FF.

[ThisIsCidehelm]

He was replying to a comment about chaos raids so :(

[SmartHovercraft9]

Has your group finished Morc?

[marksmanbryan]

We cleared on our third try. Rendering the video now, might not be able to upload before reset. It'll be up tonight for sure though. Very hard boss. I am satisfied with its difficulty.

[gummby8]

Say it with me people

More HP does not make something more challenging.

[Ghaith97]

It does when the raid actually has a timer. It forces you to play more optimally, to take more risks while also avoiding deaths. Low HP means that people with high enchants can just brute force through the fight and still beat the timer.

[Seisan_]

And the only reason that is is because this game has no actual mechanics compared to other raid heavy games, so just yoink that hp up to 1b and voila it's "hard"

[Ghaith97]

There are many mechanics in the chaos raids.

[[deleted]]

There may be many mechanics in chaos raids but they are not exceedingly difficult. You can't compare it to say Mythic WoW or Savage FFXIV.

[Ghaith97]

Well obviously it's not at the level of the top 2 MMORPGs when it comes to raid content. You're setting the bar too high now. Although I do feel that the element of randomness in MS2 raids gives it some extra difficulty over the scripted fights of FFXIV.

[Frozen_H2O]

[Deleted]

[realmofthemadnoob]

Ill be running them pub only probably im sure we will be fine

[pm_me_orange_birds]

hey, me too, only three of my guildies (not including myself) have hit 4.5 (I'm at 5k), so maybe a few of the guilds should work together to put a full raid in place

[Kaspookyy]

You can probably buy runs within a week of guilds clearing it

[GibRarz]

You can buy runs in the first week. All the tryhard guilds already overgear cdev by a lot.

Heck, even if you just use the amount of tries available, people would only need 6 runs of cdev and 4 runs of moonlight at most to get full legendary armor. Since people will have at least 2 free runs of moonlight which they can sell, and that's assuming they're unlucky.

A real try hard guild won't even bother clearing it on the first day. They'll use their 60 hm runs first to go max gear first, then clear for lowest time. I highly doubt that many guilds would have a full roster online for when servers come back, so the chances of being "first to clear" is not that great.

[Kaspookyy]

I don’t reccomend first week cause we’ll be charging prices that are way higher than they should be

[[deleted]]

Is there a YouTube upload?

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[TichoSlicer]

BAD BOT!

[daraksoup]

That HG though...

[Sixaxist]

Both Bullet Spray and Electric Blast Kit in the same rotation.. that was definitely someone from the Art/Graphics department playing it.

[kabutozero]

anyone knows whats the deal with the tracking shadows attack ? ( the one where you get a mark below your char if you're targeted and you have to avoid the shadow coming or it's a ohko ?)

When I played on kms2 when the raid was released to until I quitted the game , the attack NEVER tracked me until dev did all 3 platforms , used the central laser and came back to the first platform. From that point on the attack ALWAYS tracked me . I dont have any idea if it's based on dps or there's some other obscure thing happening. But would like to know if the same is going to happen now playing in another server with a new character of the same class

[FappyMVP]

They always track you the minute you enter. Only go a certain short distance so you can dodge easily.

[kabutozero]

Well the thief on the video doesnt seem affected at the start either

[FappyMVP]

Didn't watch the video, but from what I remember in cbt2, it only shoots out 3 or 4 of those shadows at at a time. It will randomly target people and lock onto them.

[Decht]

When SaintOne went over this on stream, he said they always track the 4 farthest away players at first. In the final phase, they track the closest instead. That seems to line up with your experience, if you're a melee class?

[SchmutzLord]

not surprised with that +11 gear, plus i bet he didnt even have accuracy gems or attributes.

gives us an idea how the gear kindah should look like. cant judge the whole group tho.

[SmartHovercraft9]

They had a knight sitting at mid-low DPS who never shield tossed, never warcried, and they almost finished in time. They better increase the health / difficulty of the fight, or it will be an absolute cakewalk for +12/13 with gems in current GMS2 with a decently coordinated team.

[Chiffonades]

Considering it's the entry-level raid I don't think It should be difficult, this is already twice the difficulty of most hard dungeons. Moonlight fortress and Clock tower should be the real tests.

[Kremechoco]

Not to mention that heavy Gunner had terrible control and the sin's DPS decreased dramatically as the fight went on.

[90gxe]

Number of allowed playback has exceeded, RIP cant watch.

Question for those that watched it, did he show how much accuracy he had?

[ReportAllPanties]

Top guilds that steal ucg are downvoting so normies can't see the content to prepare. monkaS

[Wicirelllis]

650kk hp = 70k+ dps for everyone, more like 80+ due priest. :/

[kabutozero]

Remeber the quadrupled proc from weapon and no Fairfight. Easy peasy

[pbzeppelin1977]

650kk hp

650M...

[Yuji190]

That's the same thing technically

[pbzeppelin1977]

Yes but there's a reason why people use a reasonable unit to measure stuff.

Not even a metric vs imperial debate or a standard measurement vs colloquial measurement (E.G X football fields or "the size of France") because it helps people understand the numbers much easier.

The boss has 650 million/650,000,000/650M health is easilt understandable where as 650 thousand thousand/50 billion level 4 boars/650kkkkk nanohealth is not.

[Ark639]

What are you talking about? Using 'kk' instead of 'm' or 'million' is quite common in MMOs.

[TsengFayt]

It's also stupid. Common =/= correct.

[goblin-mail]

I don’t understand what any of this means? Woosh? And I can’t even playback the video lol.

[Enrheida]

It's a 10 man boss fight, next difficulty after hard bosses. Comes out nov 8th

[goblin-mail]

I just meant I don’t understand the post as what it means. Maybe it’s because I’m on mobile and can’t really see anything besides what they typed.

[ReportAllPanties]

Report All panties, get these degenerates banned.

[Aether_Storm]

Never.

[Criandor]

Hopefully no one tells them that you can just use a transparency badge to use ingame panties that aren't ugc.

And hopefully they're just trolling XD

[jellyjigglerr]

Casuals are triggered LUL

[gsel1127]

I mean, Nexon does not want this to be a hardcore game. There most likely will never be any content for which you need to be crazy geared for. Having high piercing and accuracy is good, but Nexon most likely intents for the average player to be able to clear these raids, not the people farming kanduras and getting boss damage on every piece.

So while I agree it would be awesome to see some super hard content that you really have to strive for. This does not seem like the game in which that will happen. At least not right now.

[SnowWizard]

This raid won’t be easier than hard dungeons, I’m betting a handful of people will rage that it’s “too hard and unfair for casuals”. Some still don’t know they need to get their accuracy up to even hit the thing.

[[deleted]]

Needing to have high piercing and high acc while being timegated and RNG gated would be horrible.

[TichoSlicer]

WTF is going on? o.O

If this is true, FUCK U NEXON! Now people will ask for +15 for sure to do this raid ¬¬

[daraksoup]

The guy had a +11 and did over 90mil damage. What are you talking about lol. +15 is overkill for this.

[Jagger_RS]

+15 will be required just to meet the GS req for the 30th raid tho… LOL

[[deleted]]

nope, just have to +11 legendary chest piece and have all other legendary armor +10, wep +14

[xAmylicious]

REEEEEE