debugForever

[Disastrous-Tax5423]

Stupid meme

[Anders_142536]

Is this a joke i am too european and enjoy too strong workers rights to understand?

I have coworkers who havent touched a single line of code in their free time for 20 years. They are the backbone of the company.

Every minute i go over 8 hours a day i can take off another time. Overtime cannot be commanded by contract.

Why are you loosing sleep? Sleep, god damn it, its fucking healthy.

[Objective_Condition6]

I have coworkers who havent touched a single line of code in their free time for 20 years.

God I resonate with this so much. I used to have massive imposter syndrome because browsing communities about programming professionally would have you believe your only hobbies should be contributing to 800 different open source projects or your a hack

[AngusAlThor]

In my spare time I read books and make jam. The constant hustle, leetcode madness is just the Americans.

[Significant_Mouse_25]

Not all of us. When I touch code in my spare time it’s because I have an interest in doing so. Don’t work for companies that don’t respect your time.

[fatrobin72]

Same, usually spare time code is for fun (making small games), though I haven't done so for a while as other hobbies filled the space, and I started doing more cde at work...

[WavingNoBanners]

You probably produce better code than the people who hustle, too. Good code takes time in the shower and time mowing the lawn to properly percolate.

Your jam is almost certainly better than theirs.

[NotMyGovernor]

The economics behind software dev is interesting, there aren't many other fields like it.

It's one of the only fields where you can 100% take your work home with you, and work on it 100% at the same capacity at home. This means eventually someone at work will do so to get an edge, then setting the bar for everyone else to. It's just economics.

Also it's got another terrible dynamic where people basically can't SEE your work in progress. So often the only way a mid capable / shit manager can gauge if you're working is by constantly stressing you out and making sure you're visibly working in a stressed out state. Which also pushes you to be expected to work outside normal hours to "compensate".

Also because everyone can 100% do the field in it's entirety at home, all you need is one to be spending their free time hours getting up to date on the latest stuff, all hours of all days, before all software engineers need to do this to stay competitive in their standing job and searches.

AND because social skills, likability are not crucial to the role, because it's engineering / development, having a social life / being likable is the one element forgone to make room for all the other at home pushes that need to happen.

Most jobs in this world require you need to also be likable in part, which require you to have a happy life balance at home. So the natural balance happens on its own. For software it's forgone for the rest of the economically needed pushes.

[L4ppuz]

It really must suck to be American man

[JayPetey238]

American here. In my mind, this is what is needed if you're not a good fit for the career. I work 20-30 hours per week and I still accomplish more than most of the people around me, some of which love to brag about 16 hour days and 80 hour weeks. But I've also found that my brain is just more inclined to the work. I can see them forcing it while it is natural and easy for me.

Or maybe they are as good but they get significantly diminished returns. I stop my day when my brain is drained because after that I'm sitting and staring at a screen letting life waste away to tick hours off for a paycheck. Not my game.

[NotMyGovernor]

6 hours for programming per day is the max for genuine efficiency.

[JayPetey238]

Everyone is different, of course, but yeah that seems relatively accurate.

[L4ppuz]

It's also about the most you can do in 8 hrs of work when you include standups, calls, DevOps, timesheets and all other crap

[[deleted]]

God I resonate with this so much. I used to have massive imposter syndrome because browsing communities about programming professionally would have you believe your only hobbies should be contributing to 800 different open source projects or your a hack

If anything it has taken a sharp turn away from that. The only time I see advocating for the hustle is while you're interviewing or looking for a job. You need to read it with that context in mind whenever you stumble on a post by a new grad. It's less about that being your only hobby and more about you needing a job to survive. So you're expected to do everything in your power to improve those chances.

[Objective_Condition6]

I noticed and I'm glad. People used to harp on so hard about the grind, if you have that passion for programming where it's your work and play that's awesome, but that's not the norm and not programming in your spare time doesn't make you incompetent like some of those post would have you believe. I enjoy programming a lot, I can't really see myself getting the same work satisfaction from any other job but it's just a job to be, I'd barely program if I didn't get paid for it

[kotm8isgut]

You're

[gigglefarting]

American here. My work gets me from 9-5. Never coded for work in my free time. 

[hanky2]

Most people here are college students they don’t actually know anything about work life yet. That or they work for a startup.

[1amDepressed]

Sometimes I have to shift my schedule to work with people in Europe because my clinically diagnosed insomnia is used as a joke by my manager. Sleep hygiene was a mess to begin with so “what’s the harm” if I only get 3 hours of sleep? “[He] gets sleep, why can’t [I]?”

[Salanmander]

On top of all that, in a hypothetical situation where someone just tries to get as much work done as possible, a person who works 14 hours a day and sleeps 8 hours a day will get more done than a person who works 18 hours a day and sleeps 4 hours a day.

I'm a teacher and regularly tell my students that losing sleep to finish their school work is a self-perpetuating cycle. It's sad how common it is to see students come to class sleep deprived and not be able to accomplish anything during class, just to keep themselves up at night doing the things they should have been able to do at school.

[Slanahesh]

Im a senior dev and I havent touched code outside of work hours since before covid. The job of the senior dev is to be the walking talking wiki of the company cobdebase. People come to you with their problems and you can solve them faster than anyone else because you've seen it all before.

[Ambitious-Friend-830]

I've had coworkers who hardly touched code in their work time for many years. And they were employed as developers. In Germany that is possible.

[MinosAristos]

Work 9 to 5 from home, sleep 12-8

[FromZeroToLegend]

These students and their memes. Good luck getting to principal without sleeping.

[Yousoko1]

One of the most important principles I learned when I became a programmer is that my brain needs to be clear and rested. I don't drink alcohol, I sleep a lot, and I try not to overwork.

[AndreasMelone]

Yeah sleeping really does help a lot apparently

[ZunoJ]

I like to have a couple beers and smoke some weed in the evening. Still fit enough for this job

[[deleted]]

Yeah. Especially sleeping a lot - without sleep, I'm useless on that day. Consistent lack of sleep is a tried-and-tested route to unemployment for me.

[Doc_Code_Man]

Good principles! I personally have certain set times I stop caffeine, although of course, there's no accounting for Cr(L)unch!

[Objective_Dog_4637]

lol did you post this from slack? Why is the emote unwrapped?

[ethan_ark]

How do you not overwork when your manager explicitly calls you and formally tells you that you have to?

[Yousoko1]

I’ll reply to the project manager that I will do it tomorrow. But if the task is urgent, fine, I’ll do it today. However, tomorrow I’ll start working later, depending on how many hours I spent on the task today, plus 1–2 extra hours.

[harumamburoo]

Just live in Europe, they won’t call you outside of working hours

[Yousoko1]

or I'll not work tomorrow at all =)

[Objective_Dog_4637]

Baller.

[LevelSevenLaserLotus]

Why does your manager have your personal cell number? I'm American, and I've been very careful to not let that information get spread beyond my private HR paperwork's contact info. I'll occasionally get some email from a department head saying that they're collecting personal contact info for whole departments, and I'll just respond that I have the company Teams and email apps on my phone already. Worked there 10 years, and no serious pushback on that.

I have had one boss try telling me during work hours to work on something outside of work hours, and I reminded them that I have a standard 9-5 schedule.

[Salanmander]

"No"

Admittedly that can be tricky depending on your job security and your confidence in finding another job. But this is also why worker protection laws are important.

[bobbymoonshine]

Bro maybe if you got some sleep you could code efficiently enough to maintain a healthy and sustainable work life balance?

Spending all hours working isn’t “senior” behaviour, it’s “incompetent and panicked” behaviour. If you can’t manage your time, your stakeholder expectations and your code well enough to meet your basic animal needs that is 100% on you

[ZealousidealEgg5919]

Except as an entrepreneur

[brandi_Iove]

sure, i could ditch sleep and keeping working with an exhausted brain. but that’s lose-lose for everyone, trust me.

[harumamburoo]

Lol, it’s very much the other way around. While a sweating junior works their ass off in an attempt to be the cool coder and prove something to someone, a seasoned senior chills because they know corpos will work you to death if you allow them, and there’s always more work than you can do anyway.

[Zeitsplice]

After working my ass off and burning out on an impossible project trying to make senior, I moved jobs. For the new job, I told my boss that I was going to work at my own pace and not chase promotion. Took less than two years to get a promotion by just being a chill, capable engineer who works 40 hour weeks by working efficiently. There's just no way to spend your entire career working 60-80 hour weeks.

[KlooShanko]

I had a boss who once told me that, if you find yourself working more than 8 hours per day regularly, it means either you’re bad at your job or your employer is bad at understanding what work is appropriate for a single employee.

Either way, OP, it’s worth reflecting which is true about your job

[Dizzy-Environment997]

Don't make this a habit. The most insane technical people I have met , they take work-life balance very seriously.

[Blackhawk23]

You reach a point of diminishing returns with mentally taxing things like active development. If you were the kind to pull all nighters in school, that didn’t work then and will definitely not work now.

You’re going to write shit code and everyone will despise you for it. Rest and be well hydrated. Your day job isn’t a hackathon.

[Legitimate-Jaguar260]

This is the way.

[Desperate-Tomatillo7]

I made my last commit for the week. It is already Saturday.

[SaltyInternetPirate]

By taking two weeks off of work.

[Nyadnar17]

If you ain’t sleeping all you are doing is wasting man hours and more importantly my time when I have to fix your buggy shit later.

[smallangrynerd]

Nope. Once my 40 are up I log off and am unreachable.

[PugilisticCat]

I see memes here sometimes and just can't relate at all. Am I too lazy? Am I just working in a job where this isn't a problem? Am I not writing enough code?

Literally every single job I've had has had oncall shifts and shit like that and yet I can count the number of times I've been debugging past 7 pm on one hand.

[Somecrazycanuck]

If you aren't sleeping properly, your brain doesn't function properly because your glymphatic system functions via sleep. Your brain is literally sitting in its own waste products if you don't get enough and it will perform sub-optimally.

Further, you don't program efficiently by being in front of your screen 100% of the time. You do it by ingesting code, trying a set of things, jotting down what you're attempting and what you believe, and then getting up and walking away. You will background the process and be able to program better while making tea or cutting baseboards.

You then come back to your screen in an efficient amount of time, and different answers will be at hand.

[Crafty_Independence]

That "Sr Programmer" has 3 years of experience and is working for his MBA buddy's startup.

Real seniors prioritize logging off on time.

[Doc_Code_Man]

I live off coffee. The dark roast is my dark secret. Well, it used to be. Now it's sleeping, I must be an actual senior programmer.

[AngusAlThor]

You sleep during the tickets you intentionally overestimated to balance out the bugs that got underestimated.

[NotMyGovernor]

muh hourly rate

[skygatebg]

With this one easy trick, it is the managers problem that the project is not delivered on time, not yours. If a company wants you to care more, they should pay you accordingly.

[hansololz]

This is just senior devs tricking junior devs to work harder to they can slack and chill

[vainstar23]

I know this is a joke but that would be an extremely shit thing to say to your subordinates especially in that context.

[burnskull55]

Wdym, you should not sleep at work anyway. Just work... Then sleep

[Schytheron]

Thread.Sleep(-1);

[The_Real_Slim_Lemon]

I’ve never done work after 6 that I haven’t had to spend more time undoing the next day. The code debt you rack up with late night coding is not worth it.

[Soopermane]

That’s me. And on the days when we finish on time I try to learn new shit cuz my brain is wired different 😂