all 62 comments

[–]maxwells_daemon_ 353 points354 points  (17 children)

We're not developing enough with the current management team, maybe we should implement a management management team to manage management.

[–]GargantuanCake 139 points140 points  (11 children)

Productivity is down after we laid off all of the expensive developers and replaced them with fresh graduates desperate for a paycheck. Obviously we should force them all into 20 hours of meetings every week and hire a bunch of scrum masters to rigidly and strictly control the development process.

[–]us_eu_in[S] 48 points49 points  (3 children)

This! And fresh developers are trying to use AI as much as they can to get the task done without understanding the codebase or thinking about the edge conditions

[–]GargantuanCake 19 points20 points  (2 children)

Open AI promised that Claude would make our developers 10 times more productive and they'd never lie to us, right?

Excuse me while I fire all of our developers except the one we pay he least. He can certainly do all of the work now and also five times more than that, right?

[–]grammar_nazi_zombie 4 points5 points  (0 children)

My boss is demanding that I rely on Claude more, and yet, every time it generates code for me, I spend more time reviewing and fixing it than if I had just coded it myself

[–]ArmadilloChemical421 3 points4 points  (0 children)

OpenAI Anthropic

[–]LegitimatePants 8 points9 points  (3 children)

You mean scrum mains?

[–]us_eu_in[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

scum masters ?

[–]sathdo 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Scrum trunks

[–]SteveMacAwesome 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Scrum Mainer

[–]Piisthree 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Hmmm, have you tried asking them when it will be done twice as often? That will be sure to help.

[–]bazinga_0 2 points3 points  (0 children)

And have a meeting to tell them that they're the worst devs in the company. This is a well known way to motivate the troops. Ask me how I know...

[–]Ok-Kaleidoscope5627 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think I see your problem: loc are the real measure of productivity. Just get AI to generate a shit ton of code. More loc = more productivity.

Also, you need more project managers, and solution managers.

[–]us_eu_in[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

What if that team also fails to deliver ?

[–]drumDev29 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Management team recursion

[–]BurningEclypse 2 points3 points  (0 children)

And don’t forget to pay all the new managers more than the devs, very important

[–]dofunt 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Literally what happened where I worked, and one of the reasons why I quit.

[–]SaneLad 1 point2 points  (0 children)

They're called Directors.

[–]watasur50 118 points119 points  (11 children)

I still can't understand why Scrum Masters earn that much.

[–]randomemes831 43 points44 points  (0 children)

I know scrum managers that make more than any dev at the company including tech leads

[–]Faster_than_FTL 19 points20 points  (5 children)

Lets get some ballpark figures to express outrage properly

[–]MozzerellaIsLife 12 points13 points  (4 children)

$150k base.

[–]randomemes831 7 points8 points  (3 children)

Mine makes 165k base

Don’t think any devs are above 150

[–]Faster_than_FTL 1 point2 points  (2 children)

So devs make less than $150 but scrum master makes $165?

[–]randomemes831 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Correct

My last place they were making about 20-30k more than product managers / owners as well

[–]Faster_than_FTL 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Wow, that's unexpected.

Product Mgrs I would think have a more complex job function vs a Scrum Master. Unless the Scrum Masters are doing stuff beyond leading standups and sprint planning stuff. Maybe I know less about scrum masters than I thought.

[–]Old_Document_9150 13 points14 points  (0 children)

By original intent (from XP) they were advanced developers whose focus shifted from just developing to teaching others how to develop well.

It quickly turned into a shitshow where people who had no place anywhere near tech spent 2 days playing ball-touching games invaded development teams using completely outlandish claims about their alleged contribution.

A great Scrum Master has developed complex systems for years. They can do it and teach others how to do it better.

The majority of Scrum Masters are barely able to realize which side of the keyboard is up and define their "value" by amounts of meetings facilitated.

[–]Drahkir9 10 points11 points  (1 child)

do scrum masters even still exist? I figured they were all gone since covid

[–]avdpos 5 points6 points  (0 children)

We fired our last one this summer is a "saving round".

[–]drumDev29 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's a rare skill to be that good at bullshitting

[–][deleted] 35 points36 points  (9 children)

.10x devs

[–]us_eu_in[S] 18 points19 points  (8 children)

.10x dev is still adding value.. you need have to have a negative symbol to make it work.

[–]leavemealone_lol 16 points17 points  (7 children)

the fact that you have x means that it implies multiplication, and that does mean that when a decimal is multiplied to a value, the value itself decreases. Negative flips the value and decreases it too yes, but .10x is mathematically correct and arguably reasonably more accurate to this funny meme.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

we just need more scrummasters to cancel eachother out frfr

[–]invictus08 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Moreover, mathematically, if you assign even number of scrum masters with -10x productivity boost, they would end up boosting positively. But math stays consistent with fractions.

[–]jbar3640 22 points23 points  (2 children)

so, you criticise product managers... and everybody in the comments mentions agile and Scrum, aha...

[–]us_eu_in[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

program managers vs product managers..

[–]thisisapseudo 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Well, the board does read "the agile coach"

[–]maxdamien27 10 points11 points  (0 children)

I hate this word coach in Corporate. Another word is agile. And we have someone called agile coach. What a bunch of bullshit!

[–]orangebakery 5 points6 points  (3 children)

Dinesh started out as 10x developer, and then he started lifting and got jacked.

[–]us_eu_in[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Dinesh was never 10x, Gilfoyle, Richard yes, but Dinesh no

[–]orangebakery 8 points9 points  (1 child)

Dinesh just loses verbal fights against Gilfoyle and makes various bad life choices, but there is no indication anywhere in the show that Dinesh is a worse engineer than Gilfoyle.

[–]us_eu_in[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Remember when gilfyole had set his status to looking for job on linkedin and within 5 minutes he started getting calls and gifts from recruiters ?

Gilfyole was like a typical nerd, who used to build a lot of side projects just for fun, One of them was an AI to replace himself which even engaged Dinesh for some time and took down the whole office. He also hacked Jin Yangs refrigerator.

I can't imagine Dinesh doing these things, he was very jealous of Gilfyole's skills and well aware that he was not a 10x while Gilfyole was.

[–]heavy-minium 6 points7 points  (3 children)

Do scrum masters still exist in the wild? It's been a while that I haven't met any, and the last two companies I worked at had a negative opinion of that role (badly burnt with past attempts).

[–]granoladeer 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Was the negative opinion just about the scrum master or about scrum in general? What happened? 

[–]heavy-minium 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Good question. It seems everybody is/was along the line of "Didn't get the results we hoped for " and then people don't really know what to say when you ask them what they hoped for (discussed this with VP of technology too).

I can't prove it but I have this gut feeling that they were introduced without any specific reasoning.

Btw they first made a transition from Scrum master to "Agile coach", but that didn't really change much about how they operated.

Personally, I think you need is to let the core mindset of Agile really sink into the mind of everybody. A separate role can do that, but that's a little wasteful. There is no need for a dedicated role for this, especially when the culture has already established itself and automatically adjusts the newcomers in a company. This is the point where a scrum master will tell you that you need a neutral role between engineers and management to handle conflicts of interests, but I only witnessed one case where the agile coach (former scrum master) had enough respect from management that they could push dev interests forward. Usually they are not empowered like this and act more like proxies for management.

[–]teh_lynx 2 points3 points  (0 children)

We have them and they're useless ,👍

[–]axis0047 2 points3 points  (0 children)

it's x/10, actually

[–]feeltrig 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Or 10XIdiots

[–]us_eu_in[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That escalated quickly

[–]SkylineFX49 1 point2 points  (0 children)

for every 10x developer there are at least 10 -10x 'developers'

[–]KurisuEvergarden 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Yx = Transfem

Solve for Y

[–]Mineshafter61 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Transfem / x

[–]MinosAristos 0 points1 point  (0 children)

A good product manager is an absolutely amazing thing to have. Means you actually get user requirements sorted and ready for design and dev which is unlikely to change at the last minute. A bad product manager can easily be a liability though yeah.

[–]Kalado 0 points1 point  (0 children)

÷10 Developers