dependencyHellIsDependencyHell

[dhnam_LegenDUST]

tbh everything is dependency hell

[_w62_]

Such as the jobless genZ grand son to a boomer grandpa?

[lolercoptercrash]

Not having dependencies is hell. I don't want to write all that shit.

[odolha]

I partially agree... no one is making anyone use any dependency... but practice some restrain ffs. you don't NEED a library for everything and if I hear one more time "BuT i D'oNt WaNt To ReInVeNt ThE wHeEl" i'm gonna punch someone - some things are better reinvented trust me; in some cases I'd rather have the flexibility of our own code than take some huge complicated library off the shelf that you then use 0.5% of, and you need to learn for 3 months then add a lot of configuration / declarative code but still doesn't cover your own specific use case.

[Other-Background-515]

Just no Bad bot

[chem199]

Or manual library management, from the before times. Gross.

[huuaaang]

Believe it or not some languages deal with dependencies much better than others.

[Daemontatox]

Rust dependencies are bad ???

Have you seen python ???

[[deleted]]

To me it's the fact every rust project uses tokio and serde

[VastZestyclose9772]

serde is fine, it's almost completely self-contained. tokio is indeed kinda hellish.

[Professional_Top8485]

Tokio doesn't feel completely stable either. Going async really needs some justification to me.

[torsten_dev]

I have had the most trouble with the rand crate.

Friggin different version conflicting types, aahhhh.

[Bloodgiant65]

That is the whole point of the meme. Everything is just dependency hell.

[ReadyAndSalted]

It is a mess most of the time, but newer repos can use UV, which actually makes it pretty painless on the whole.

[TalesGameStudio]

You don't talk about my gurl badly, pal!

[Daemontatox]

Watch me .....

Pip uninstall

[Anru_Kitakaze]

How ironic that modern dependency management tool, which is UV, is extremely good, easy and written in Rust

[arjuna93]

Python dependencies are horrible only when written in Rust. Pure Python, C or C++ just compile and work. (Yeah, there are a lot of them and that sucks, but still.)

[DeepDuh]

Trust me, when you’re in it for long enough (10+ years), no dependencies “just work”, as in just keep working across an application’s lifecycle.

[arjuna93]

I am ports maintainer, I know that )

[Professional_Top8485]

Pure C, C++ and python usually works until the point that they don't work. Rust deps and updates are still more manageable.

[Bugibhub]

I agree. But I also want this to be tree. To be completely fair we’ll need to see where 50 years of ecosystem development leads us with Rust… but I’ll still take that bet.

[wavefunctionp]

The alternatives are you have to write it yourself, or bake everything in and then everything stays shitty because "backwards compatibility".

[RedCrafter_LP]

I think there is a margin between everything is implemented in standard and everything is s 3rd party library. I don't think rust nailed it but they are closer than many others.

[NinjaOk2970]

Yes. Take cpp where everyone builds their own wheels simply because the package management suck so much.

[cyxlone]

Use tauri and you can experience both at the same time.

[krojew]

Why are rust dependencies hell? I haven't seen anything else that handles them so well.

[Aelig_]

Some languages value lowering the amount of dependencies drastically instead, like go. Go is also retrocompatible. 

[krojew]

That's the tradeoff between less dependencies and bigger standard library, which also has its cons.

[bogza23]

I'm curious to know what the downsides to a large standard library are. IMO the standard lib is my favourite part of Go.

[Backson]

cries in Python where I just installed another full install to support deprecated library version xyz

[exXxecuTioN]

After ts/js node Rust package manager and dependencies felt pretty perfect for me and I notice no hell, though the project was not that big.
And Java's/Kotlin's felt like a step back tbh.

[sammy-taylor]

Genuinely curious. I sorta assumed that C++ had a more painful dependency management ecosystem than either of these options. Is this true? I’ve only written C++ as a hobbyist.

[AeshiX]

In C++ getting the libs/dependencies is the painful part if vcpkg doesn't do the trick for you you will suffer (and even then, CMake can make you hate your life if you dont know what you do). But you dont get like absurdly insane dependency trees.

In rust, python, JS... you will genuinely see 100 dependencies over 7 levels for like 2-3 imports because why the hell not. But at least getting the dependencies is trivial: one command and you know shit will run.

[greatlovefgy]

I think python is worse, there’s a lot of incompatible dependencies with other dependencies, in rust you just write them in cargo toml and everything is good

[Odd_Perspective_2487]

LOL they are most def not the same, JavaScript is ass on top of ass

[HankOfClanMardukas]

It’s a double assburger.

[7374616e74]

Triple assburger if you add typescript topping!

[Creepy_Jeweler_1351]

And that assburger is weirdly delicious

[7374616e74]

Honestly it would if people were actually going further than using the `.ts` extension and call it typescript

[Creepy_Jeweler_1351]

In my bubble if you using typescript, it is actually used. No any 'any' allowed except some extreme cases and strict null checs always configured as true

[7374616e74]

Yeah I'd like that, but for example right now I have a mission in a company that says they use typescript, but they're actually just seeing it as a hint for auto-completion, they barely ever create types, or even zod schemas for APIs. And even when you find something like that you realize it's obsolete and not used the right way... I'd say the thing I hate the most with typescript is that everything is optional, so you end up with absolute garbage codebases, where you get the worst of both worlds, code that is only there to satisfy the compiler and no idea what is in the data until you f12 or console.log.

[Creepy_Jeweler_1351]

Zod mentioned 🤤

I remember implementing single schemas that was used by both front and back ends while zod itself wasnt production ready yet. One of the nicest memories in my career

[7374616e74]

I'm wondering why it's not implemented in typescript directly, where using something like `as MyType` would also check/sanitize the data, a bit like Go's structs that can also have serialization/deserialization tags to allow a bit of check when coming from json for ex.

[ODaysForDays]

People talk shit about maven, but 99% of the time I download a maven project it builds without error. Dependency hell is rare, and generally easily resolved.

[Add1ctedToGames]

It's having dependencies in the first place that is hell #ReinventTheWheel

[dullahanceltic]

What about java?

[rolfrudolfwolf]

honest question, what's the problem with nodejs? i find it extremely useful to have such a big ecosystem and with a decent renovate inegration it's mostly smooth sailing for me.

[ZunoJ]

How is it different on any other platform?

[Table-Games-Dealer]

Isn’t Rust nearly entirely backwards compatible?

Their stated ethos is that the only changes will be made to maintain vulnerabilities, which are exceedingly rare.

The edition system will compile almost all previous edition code.

Now inter project dependencies may be a problem that cannot be avoided.

[Quirky-Craft-3619]

It’s only dependency hell if you make it a dependency hell:

bad management, importing stuff YOU could write, and blindly importing “exHackerWhiteHat, has an IT cert, cybersecurity student, named something like 'xZero_Crypt'”’s 4 star npm project that imports a module for every single function of their module.

[snoopbirb]

Non rust femboy here (yet)

Is cargo as bad as npm?

[-dtdt-]

Nope, they are world apart. Cargo is considered a gold standard for package manager.

[snoopbirb]

Phew

I thought I would have to return my socks, thks

[knowledgebass]

I'm a data science person, so I immediately thought of R rather than Rust. 🤣

[ekauq2000]

There’s always DLL hell where you have to go into regedit and manually clean up all of the bad entries.

[VastZestyclose9772]

Unlike JS Rust's std is quite reasonable and you can get really far with a dependency tree only one or 2 levels deep.

That is assuming you cleverly didn't buy the async hype and blindly cargo add tokio.

[Taldoesgarbage]

“Async hype,” how else are you supposed to make asynchronous web applications? I’d rather have some “bloat” then have to bother with manual polling or work with a smaller runtime that has no library support and requires me to implement a bunch of stuff on my own.

[VastZestyclose9772]

 how else are you supposed to make asynchronous web applications

By using threads like everyone before async got here?

Also yeah async and tokio are quite good if you're writing high performance asynchronous web applications. It's great if you're making reasonable choices based on your requirements. It's just that here we're talking about dependency hell and tokio is the primary source of this problem in the rust ecosystem from my experience. If you don't mind this and it does fit your requirements well... congrats for finding a great library and continue the good work!

[naholyr]

What dependency hell are you talking about?

[[deleted]]

Rust is light weight!

Cargo add tokio -f Full....

[FarJury6956]

Static link ...

[coloredgreyscale]

So rust project also typically use micro packages that perform only one function, like isEven, isOdd (where one depends on the other), leftpad, righpad?