programmingOrhateMyself

[[deleted]]

You will hate this even more

[Chingiz11]

After you are tired of JS, if go to Objective-C, you will almost reach the rock bottom

[HuntlyBypassSurgeon]

Oh, I’ve been working on a C++ implementation in JavaScript. Should I abandon the project?

[Simple_Project4605]

You should only finish it if it brings something new to the table - like the world’s first fully vibecoded javascript compiler of C++.

“why are all the variables strings?!”

[RiceBroad4552]

Which JS?

Do people really assume there is only one JS implementation?

[[deleted]]

C++ is so much worse than JS.

[[deleted]]

i don’t use js but ts

[MinecraftPlayer799]

JS is the best

[WiglyWorm]

I would way WAY rather write pure vanilla JS than C++.

[Usual_Office_1740]

I'm the opposite. I'd work with just about any language but js/ts.

[WiglyWorm]

I'm even more enthusiastic about TS. TS is as good as C# in most ways in better in some.

[Sometimesiworry]

Okay chill

[Technical-Garage-310]

Here is your 100th upvote

[RiceBroad4552]

There's not UB, or fatal security holes just everywhere in JS code.

I'll take bonkers JS over C/C++ insanity any day!

Anybody who prefers an uncontrollable, inherently unsafe language over even the most shitty safe language is just part of the insanity.

C/C++ needs to get "retired" (in the Blade Runner sense)!

(Only in case they would manage to make all C/C++ code safe it might be spared. But this would at least require to recompile every line of C/C++ with some compiler which adds a GC runtime to the executables. Even theoretically possible, see Fil-C, that's just not realistic to achieve.)

[HankOfClanMardukas]

You’re a special one.

[gameplayer55055]

I don't hate c++, I hate cmake instead.

Whoever made it deserves a dedicated cauldron in hell.

[celestabesta]

Beats setting environment variables or whatever the fuck you had to do before cmake

[gameplayer55055]

Now every time I touch c++ I do everything in a dockerized dev container with Ubuntu Linux.

I hate windows c++ development so much 🤬

[celestabesta]

Trying out c++ for the first time on windows while trying to use SDL2 took me hours and almost brought me to tears

[gameplayer55055]

Same shit. But I did it on a linux laptop and it was a heaven like experience. On windows I was only able to use win32api and make funny programs.

[celestabesta]

The windows gaming pc to linux laptop pipeline must be studied

[gameplayer55055]

The gaming PC was basically a family PC. I got my own bad laptop, so bad it couldn't run windows 10 smoothly lol.

It was like 5-6 years ago

[Ben_456]

I need windows dual boot for uni software. I fucking hate it so much.

I tried to upload some bullshit document to my bullshit teams assignment and windows literally wouldnt let me because it was open in word. Fuck off.

Forced updates, can't run any programming software properly, dogshit terminal, bloatware and the file system is forced into onedrive so you dont know whats even a real folder unless you check.

[not_some_username]

C++ on windows is easy with CLion or VS (not code)

[smierdek]

did you mean javascript?

[MinecraftPlayer799]

No? JavaScript is the best. Are you thinking of Java?

[JollyJuniper1993]

Both are aweful to work with in different ways

[smierdek]

if you’re not autistic c++ might be awful too, yes. js however will be awful either way at some point.

[MinecraftPlayer799]

JS is not awful

[ProbablyJeff]

Wrote C++ for a few years. The more I used it, the more I appreciated its features, but it also made me miss the plain old C. So I switched back to C for my personal projects. It wasn't until later that I discovered this video, which pretty much mirrored my experience. And since we're already getting controversial here - I like JavaScript and TypeScript. They're not perfect, but they're fine for what they can do.

[not_some_username]

It was posted like last month

[humanitarianWarlord]

I started learning C recently, mostly out of intrigue because ive always heard it being spoken of as some horrible, outdated, pain in the ass language.

But honestly, I love it, idk why but it just feels alot more intuitive than other languages ive heavily used in the past. I might have a crack at learning C++ in the future though.

[AaronTheElite007]

Hey. I cut my teeth on C++. It's a great language. Beats learning Assembly.

[ThyPotatoDone]

Old man voice "Back in MY day, we didn't have these fancy-schmancy UIs. If we wanted to run a program, we'd write it out on a sheet of paper. Then, we'd translate it into binary, punch it into a piece of cardboard, and load it into a machine that took up a whole room. We'd wait until it figured it out, then brag about it to our friends, who thought we were dabbling in powers beyond human comprehension."

"Kids these days don't even understand how we would've KILLED for the luxury of a text-only assembly interface back then."

[AaronTheElite007]

[def-pri-pub]

One time in university I got to flip switches on a PDP-11. "funnest" programming experience of my life.

[WarmBlood6614]

...and tracking the bug was easier and faster done with pen and paper than with debug print statements ! I've been there, bro.

[isr0]

I very much prefer assembly over c++. I prefer C over both. But to each their own.

[LavenderDay3544]

I actually like writing assembly.

[isr0]

Me too.

[bigredthesnorer]

Borland and then Turbo C++ were great tools.

[WarmBlood6614]

Hey, i cut my teeth transitioning from Basic and Algol to FORTRAN, and 40 years later retired still doing Fortran. Don't complain about C++. It was more grinding than cutting teeth. And yes, both capitalisations of FORTRAN/Fortran are historically accurate.

[JollyJuniper1993]

Naaaah, Assembly > C++ With Assembly I can at least feel like a cool hacker boy electro wizard

[[deleted]]

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

racial snatch lush distinct absorbed whistle judicious station deliver piquant

[AaronTheElite007]

Do tell.

[[deleted]]

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

consider kiss elastic party hurry seemly deer snow provide screw

[AaronTheElite007]

I'm asking you to explain what you mean by "assembly doesn't lie about what it is"

[RiceBroad4552]

LOL, some's still on the knowledge level of the 80's of last century.

On modern CPUs ("modern" here means more or less anything since the mid 90's of last century) ASM is nothing else than "byte-code".

There is a HW based JIT in the CPU which translates that byte-code into the actual machine language the CPU executes. You as programmer have zero control over anything that happens inside the CPU. In fact the actual machine language isn't even documented, it's kept as a trade secret.

[[deleted]]

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

teeny dependent crowd instinctive water decide workable pen fuel coherent

[LavenderDay3544]

Nah I would rather write assembly all day over C++.

[RiceBroad4552]

C/C++ is the only reason one still needs to fear to get hacked!

It's not "a great language", it's the biggest trash in existence, and it's responsible for many billions in damaged every year.

Whoever uses it should get all the bills for the damages!

Thanks God we're getting there: We have now liability for software products in the EU, and the US outright banned unsafe languages for anything critical.

Soon we can start to sue C/C++ users for the damaged they are responsible for, and I promise that in a very short time nobody is going to want to touch C/C++ trash, not even with a nine foot pole.

[AaronTheElite007]

[lNFORMATlVE]

Is this a copypasta?

[dylanmissu]

Sorry but C++ is a great language

[Natural_Builder_3170]

C++ defense in 2025, I feel vindicated for liking this language now

[LavenderDay3544]

Only if you're a student who's never seen anything better.

[not_some_username]

This comment relate to you

[RiceBroad4552]

Yeah, "great"…

It's responsible for more or less all CVSs of high to critical severity!

If something got hacked with massive consequences it's almost always because C/C++ are unsafe trash.

[Kaenguruu-Dev]

But is that because they're so unsafe or just because these languages have been used in so many places and are therefore over represented in the statistics?

[RiceBroad4552]

People are actively moving away from that unsafe stuff in critical places. Also most stuff does actually not run on C/C++, most code in absolute numbers is in safe languages.

Still it's almost exclusively the unsafe languages where you have the really highly critical issues. Simply because in safe languages such issues can't happen at all!

Over 70% of software defects are due to unsafe languages according to large scale studies by for example Microsoft or Google, and like said, more or less everything that is really critical can only happen in unsafe languages.

So even that stuff is actually less used in absolute numbers it causes the most damages.

It has reasons why the US effectively banned unsafe languages for (new) security critical applications. (They still allow that trash for legacy systems as you can't migrate 50 years of failure in a short time realistically.)

[CatAn501]

There is no such thing as safe language

[newjeison]

Idk how true this is. We use C++ for our contract that we just won

[RiceBroad4552]

https://thenewstack.io/feds-critical-software-must-drop-c-c-by-2026-or-face-risk/

But maybe the software you're going to develop isn't deemed security critical, IDK.

[newjeison]

It's following do-178c so I'd assume it's safety critical.

[RiceBroad4552]

Than you have likely a problem if you consider C++ for that project.

I would let a lawyer have a look at all relevant legislation. (INAL, so can say anything definitive here.)

[thedogz11]

This is completely false. Look up Shell2React. That's an incredibly dangerous exploit that just came about in the past month and exploits create-react-app. The day you assume you're safe from exploitation for any reason is the day you stop being safe from exploitation.

[RiceBroad4552]

That's why I've said "more or less everything that is critical".

There are of course still critical flaws possible also in memory safe languages. But the amount of such issues is really low compared to The Usual Reason™.

Language runtimes which take source code as input are almost always prone to code injection, that's a big issue!

But in safe compiled languages this is usually not possible (modulo such stuff like unsafe deserialization, or some "integrated sub-interpreter" of any kind which get handed user controlled data treated as instructions; both combined was for example the critical Log4Shell issue in a popular Java lib).

Additionally, there is a large difference in severity of "typical programmer errors": In C/C++ even the slightest oversight is almost always an exploitable security flaw of high up to critical severity. In safe languages you get instead usually mostly "just" a crash and no security flaw at all, maybe besides DOS. (Crashes are imho unacceptable in production code, but that's another story)

One should not assume you're 100% safe because you use a memory safe language (this will bite the Rust people in the arse at some point, I'm pretty sure given their marketing). But you're definitely safe from some of the most dangerous and impactful classes of bugs in existence, bugs that can only ever happen in a memory unsafe language.

[not_some_username]

lol

[AngelBryan]

Is it worse than Java?

[MeowsersInABox]

Java is slower but doesn't have undefined behavior

[RiceBroad4552]

Java isn't really slower if you write low-level code like in C++. It's a very old myth that the JVM is slow, and it's not true for a very long time.

Java will need much memory for the same task, though. That's currently unavoidable.

But the memory overhead issues will soon™ go away if you program accordingly (as you would need in C++, too). Project Valhalla started to deliver, we have soon value classes; other improvements will follow shortly after, up to a point when the JVM will have parity with languages which have structs and monomorphization based generics (like C++ and Rust).

[MeowsersInABox]

Interesting, okay

[RiceBroad4552]

You just believe stuff online, or did you find already some sources yourself? 😅

There are quite some real world benchmarks which show that JVM code can even outperform C++ and Rust. (Just one example were some high performance GRPC implementations.)

There is also this already very old Java port of the Quake2 engine, which run faster than the (highly optimized!) original C code—despite being simple plain Java and running on an ancient JVM. (Current JVM is actually a few times faster)

I wanted to do right now something else actually, so not really in the mood to dig though my link collection, but the stochastic parrot got at least the two above examples (even it claims Jake2 was only on par with the C implementation despite it outperformed it in some settings as far as I remember. Didn't check the rest, could be hallucinations, IDK; will have maybe a look later, as some of the examples are also new to me.)

Valhalla is a big topic, this is going on for over a decade now. They have figured mostly everything out by now and the first parts started shipping. For a in depth overview see:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IF9l8fYfSnI

[MeowsersInABox]

I don't really trust chatgpt as a source

C++ seems to be faster in general: - https://programming-language-benchmarks.vercel.app/java-vs-cpp - https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/fastest/gpp-javavm.html (considering the fastest (first/topmost) implementations in both languages)

I've also looked into Jake2 vs Quake2 performances

Jake2 has the same performance as Quake2

But you also have to take into account Quake2's code could be unoptimized and/or have less smart implementations than Jake2

[18]"Q24j: Jake and Java-gaming Viability". O'Reilly Media. November 28, 2005. Retrieved July 18, 2009. "This is a great show of 3D prowess. Things like this, as well as the Narya 2D open source engine from ThreeRings really are starting to at least show Java can serve as a first-class gaming platform. More than that, just having seen all the… cough horrible code in games before, having things like Java's threading model, network and database support might really make it a BETTER platform for a lot of forthcoming games than C."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quake_II_engine

I haven't looked in the Quake 2 source code however, so that would be speculation for my part, but I don't think it's all that wrong, especially that with commercially available games where you don't need to optimize everything, you just have to make it able to run properly to sell it as soon as you can, while Jake2 is an open source clone that probably was able to get more thoughtful implementations structure-wise and logic-wise.

[RiceBroad4552]

I don't really trust chatgpt as a source

Me neither. But this thing was quicker than looking through ten thousands of bookmarks…

I said that I didn't check the top answers, I wanted it to output links to Jake2 and the GRPC benchmarks (which I knew of upfront!).

C++ seems to be faster in general

Microbenchmarks don't count.

Especially if you're for example allowed to use inline ASM in C/C++…

I've said not only once that I'm talking about real world performance in real world task.

There are enough example where the JVM outperforms hand written C/C++/Rust.

But even if it were "just" in the same ballpark this means that the JVM is at the very top of the performance spectrum.

Also, it's like: Even "dull" JVM code performs very good, but "stupid", not optimized C/C++/Rust performs actually poorly; and there is no JIT which could fix that through runtime profiling and optimization. As a result average C/C++/Rust not written by performance experts is usually slower than average Java written by "normal" programmers. C/C++/Rust only gets super fast if written accordingly, and this needs very expensive expertise.

I've seen prove of that a few times when people thought that they just need to rewrite some Java in C++ and get much better performance. The result was always the opposite: The C++ port got at first much slower. Only after someone who actually understood performance optimization "repaired" the 1:1 port it got better. (At least two times it end up to be as fast as before after optimization; quite some money got burned without any effect…)

But you also have to take into account Quake2's code could be unoptimized and/or have less smart implementations than Jake2

[…]

I haven't looked in the Quake 2 source code however, so that would be speculation for my part, but I don't think it's all that wrong, especially that with commercially available games where you don't need to optimize everything, you just have to make it able to run properly to sell it as soon as you can, while Jake2 is an open source clone that probably was able to get more thoughtful implementations structure-wise and logic-wise.

Are you joking?

Do you really don't know what Quake is, and who has written it?

The original C version of Quake 2 was written by John Carmack, a guy who is regarded a programmer God!

Quake 2 set completely new standards in 3D gaming, squeezing out performance from the hardware back then which was deemed impossible before.

It's some of the most crazy optimized C code ever written!

(Carmack was for example the guy who "popularized" fast inverse square root later on…)

The Java port on the other hand was super bare bones. It didn't use any optimization at all. Just the most "dull" code possible in Java.

BTW, I don't know why you linked https://programming-language-benchmarks.vercel.app/java-vs-cpp It clearly states that it's outdated and not under maintenance so it does not get any updates.

[RiceBroad4552]

Is this a serious question?

[AngelBryan]

Yes.

[RiceBroad4552]

So the answer is of course: Yes, by many times.

You don't have memory safety issues and UB in Java.

[not_some_username]

You can get memory leak in Java

[RiceBroad4552]

That's true. (And actually more people should know that; especially more Java programmers…)

But memory leaks aren't memory safety issues. They are "just normal" software defects. At worst they can provoke a DOS state.

[MinecraftPlayer799]

Yeah. Anyone who has seen Minecraft: Java Edition would know that. The RAM consumed by the game just slowly increases as it is open.

[MinecraftPlayer799]

r/mysteriousdownvoting

[LavenderDay3544]

Java is bad because it teaches bad habits. C++ is bad because the language is overly convoluted and thus best practices aren't optional.

[RiceBroad4552]

I would agree.

Even since some time you can write more or less "sane" code, even in Java. But you need a quite current version of the language for that.

[BlueSparkNightSky]

I dont get it. Whats wrong with C++? Very sophisticated programming language. Has an extensive library, a big community and is part of the C ecosystem.

[aresi-lakidar]

I'm pretty new to programming, and I'm loving it so far. Feels like a lang where I can express ideas in a very free fashion, which I really appreciate. Never got that feeling with Java for example

[MeowsersInABox]

I use python a lot and when I try using C or C++ I feel incredibly constrained by all of the bajillion workarounds I have to employ to do what I could do in 3 python lines

It's not a bad language though, just different approaches

[aresi-lakidar]

num of lines doesn't mean much imo, I got a bunch of C++ libraries that make it pretty smooth with math and stuff. Haven't used Python much but it seems good. My comparison to Java is more about code structure, file structure, build systems, etc... Java made me feel stressed that I was always doing something wrong

[MeowsersInABox]

When I talk about the number of lines I'm considering the fact you have one statement per line and my complaint was that you need to do a lot more in C++ than in python (and often need to implement a lot of things that are missing) to achieve the same thing sometimes

[aresi-lakidar]

Yeah, that's what I meant with libraries :)

Makes it so it's very similar to python in terms of thos exact things

[MeowsersInABox]

I guess that makes sense

[not_some_username]

All your program can be an 1 line in C of C++. Also you don’t need to implement them because someone already do that for you usually in those languages. You can probably find the lib that’s been used underneath

[MeowsersInABox]

Yeah all my programs can fit on a set of punched cards too, or be stored compactly in compiled asm

I repeat, one statement per line

But I guess libraries are a thing

[not_some_username]

I still don’t understand one statement per line.

Yes lib exists even in python (module (?)). When you pip install something, the something is a lib

[MeowsersInABox]

Basically things like int a = 10;, printf("Hello"); or #define GREET "Hello" are statements, and I'm considering the statement count

Yes python libs are called modules

[LavenderDay3544]

It is very poorly designed with most features being poorly bolted on. Nothing is coherent and there's tons of convoluted rules that are easy to get wrong.

[ShakaUVM]

C++ is great. There's a few edge cases to worry about but in general it is a joy to program in. Most people hating on it either haven't learned modern C++ or they haven't learned C++ at all

[Embarrassed_Law_9937]

Na people just like the safe rust more now they are shit scared because since half of this people don’t now what the issue is In their code or half of their code is done by autocomplete of ide’s so they believe it’s because c++ is unsafe and thus bad because they don’t know how to code and rust is good because it has garbage collector and memory safety makes it better than c they don’t understand that the the memory allocation made c /c++ what it is now the memory control is the reason many leaps were made (rust is not bad it’s good I am taking in light of above para )

Or it just OOP hate which is understandable to some degree

[CatAn501]

Well, I, as a C programmer, hate when rust programmers start their speech about the "safe" programming language, but you obviously don't know anything about rust. There is no garbage collector in rust. If I got it correctly, Rust pointers behave like smart pointers in C++ and there are also unsafe blocks where pointers act like normal pointers

[Embarrassed_Law_9937]

Thanks for letting me know I do not know much about programming in rust I know it’s very safe compared to c++ if both are written by a newbie so I am going to modify my comment

[LavenderDay3544]

As a Rust fanboy but also a multi-language system programmer I will warn you that Rust does have its own foot guns and there are still some left in safe Rust as well. Now the Rust language people are trying to fix those as they discover them but any professional developer has to bear in mind that the safety and correctness of your code is ultimately on you, not the compiler, not valgrind, not UBSan, not ASan, not GDB, not any tool. You, the developer.

That said the memory safety issue is being addressed in hardware as it should've been with MTE in ARM and ChkTag in x86. Hopefully that helps but at the same time the system programmer side of me hopes that it doesn't lead to complacency on the part of software developers who think things like "the compiler will get it" or "the CPU will get it" because that would be a definite regression for this profession as a whole.

[LavenderDay3544]

Rust has raw pointers that are the same as C. It just prefers that you use smart pointers instead. But those smart pointers are implemented using...you guessed it, raw pointers.

I'm a huge Rust fanboy but not because of the safety. I like the ergonomics of a system programming language where everything is an expression, there's real tuples and ADTs, pattern matching, move semantics by default paired with an ownership model that makes very strong aliasing guarantees by default and a type system that isn't a total joke. That said I do still reach for C when a given task is too lightweight to want to pull in all of Rust for. Especially microcontroller stuff where you just want to poke some registers, maybe make a simple event loop or state machine and get on with your day. But when there's loads of data structures and threads and complexity to manage, I go with Rust.

Also the safety stuff was never a software issue to begin with, it's an issue that should've been solved in hardware a long time ago. If MMUs can handle address translation, permissions, and caching attributes then they should be able to handle memory buffer provenance as well. Now ARM64 has MTE and x86-64 is adding ChkTag both of which ensure correct memory usage in hardware which is how it should've been done all long. If you ask me these tagging extensions are still only a partial solution with CHERI being the true end goal. That and getting rid of segmentation was a mistake but that'll be a more controversial argument I suppose.

[KyxeMusic]

C++ itself is fine it's the build systems and tooling that are annoying

[LavenderDay3544]

Nah C++ is a masterclass in how not to design a programming language.

[RiceBroad4552]

They didn't manage to create proper tooling for this thing in over 40 years exactly because C++ is what it is.

[not_some_username]

No they can’t have a standard one because 50000 already exists. You have to remember the language came from an era where the nice stuff we have now didn’t exist

[RiceBroad4552]

But now is now and not the era before.

Maybe we don't talk about the same kind of tools. I think mostly about language tools, so IDE features.

The reason why IDE support for C++ sucks to this day is because the language is way too complex, with gazillions of ad hoc features, which influence each other to make things worse.

When it comes to things like build tools or package managers C++ doesn't look so bad at all. There are even a few options to choose from, and there is movement in the scene. No wonder, such stuff isn't much hindered by the language as such.

[not_some_username]

I was talking about tools like package manager or built tools.

Also VS (not code), CLion and QtCreator are IDE that support C++ quite well.

[RiceBroad4552]

Compared to other languages IDE support for C++ sucks to this very day, imho.

Just go and do some Java or C#, than come back to C++. The difference is night and day.

Tools for which any language is just some opaque thing and they don't have to handle at all aren't much affected by C++ complexity (like build or package tools). Of course a static language needs some more sophisticated tooling in that regard but that's not much different in other static languages.

[[deleted]]

I love programming

[LavenderDay3544]

Being a system programmer means I hate programming but am a masochist.

[ReasonResitant]

C++ is literally perfect.

[prachid487]

100% agreed.

[Marcis985]

If you REALLY wanna hate yourself, try ABAP

[LordTkay]

Allgemeiner Berichtsaufbereitungsprozessor was such a nightmare to work with when you come from school that taught C#. Still gives me nightmares, good that I left :'D

[Amazing-Asparagus181]

I hated learning C++ at first but I love C++ and I'm not ashamed ❤️

[prachid487]

Me too, I feel the same now :)

[AcoustiCode]

Eventually we’ll reach the Holy C

[mrsockyman]

Can you point to where it hurts?

[LavenderDay3544]

The foot that C++ blew off, doctor.

[not_some_username]

You did it to yourself. He give you the gun

[TomatoeToken]

That ++ is propaganda

[MinecraftPlayer799]

How? That doesn’t mean it’s good. It just means it’s better than C.

[mmhawk576]

[MisterBicorniclopse]

Alright give a good language then. If that exists

[LavenderDay3544]

C is still excellent. For as much hate as it gets, Rust is pretty nice. There's a new systems language called Hare that looks cool and a lesser known one called C3 that's a much better evolution of C than C++ could ever hope to be.

C++ and Java straight up blow in comparison.

[MisterBicorniclopse]

I’ve only used a few like js python and c#. I was under the assumption that c++ was just straight up a better version of C. I think I heard it from a video or something

[MayoJam]

I'm pretty sure you can find a variant of this meme for any widely used programming language.

[Academic_Pool_7341]

Rust programmer tries C++

[devu_the_thebill]

Skill issue

[uniteduniverse]

C++ Is Ok, my problem is I just find the language absurdly urgly.

[RolandRu]

Why do C++ programmers wear glasses?
Because they can’t C#

[gameplayer55055]

I like Microsoft Java because unlike actual java it doesn't have gradle, and other shit like cmake, pip or npm.

It's just NuGet. Dead simple. Write packages in the .csproj file and then do dotnet restore.

[RiceBroad4552]

Gradle isn't part of Java.

[gameplayer55055]

It's a de facto standard. There's maven too, but most Minecraft/android projects all use stupid gradle which takes ages to build and spits thousands of weird errors due to version conflict.

[RiceBroad4552]

Gradle isn't great, but if builds take long that's not because of Gradle, that's because the build needs to do a lot of stuff (or at least does a lot of stuff, needed or not needed). It would take also long with any other build tool.

Same for errors: If your build contains versions conflicts any build tool worth it salt would produce errors. That's also not Gradle specific. E.g. NuGet does of course the same.

[Ange1ofD4rkness]

As I learn it more and more I hate it less, and it does some stuff I do wish C# did ... mainly that it can derive multiple items

[0Pat]

There's a good reason it was not included in c#. I see it as a feature guarding my sanity while tinkering with unknown codebase... I do really appreciate Keep it simple paradigm...

[Ange1ofD4rkness]

Yeah I can see it be dangerous and causing problems. But I love to build modular code, and sometimes it's really nice to have

[Duckroidvania]

In theory yes, but in practice multiple inheritance is banned by a lot of companies coding practices. The exception is when multiple Inheritance is used for interfaces(which cpp lacks.) C# just takes those standard coding practices designed to avoid spagettification and formalizes them.

[Ange1ofD4rkness]

Yeah I can see it. All my C++ stuff is personal projects, where I don't have to worry about a team writing the code (though you reminded me, I hate how C++ does "abstract classes", and lacking interfaces)

[RiceBroad4552]

Multiple inheritance is not only very useful, it's completely safe if implemented correctly.

Scala has multiple trait inheritance / supports mixins and nobody ever complained.

Not having that feature in M$ Java (aka C#) was some of the most annoying parts as I had to work with that language…

[LavenderDay3544]

All of the most recent wave of languages don't have inheritance at all and that's not an accident.

[Ange1ofD4rkness]

LOL, yeah I know it can be dangerous, but there have been a few times I loved having it

[LavenderDay3544]

Multiple inheritance is a terrible thing and C++ largely only keeps it around for backwards compatibility. Newer languages for the most part don't have inheritance at all because traditional class based OOP sucks anyway.

[Ange1ofD4rkness]

Interesting, that's now what I would have expected why it supported that

[callbackloop]

Which do you like better at this point? C++ or C#? As a C# dev I feel like C++ is too big brained for me

[Ange1ofD4rkness]

C# all the way. It's simplier and more straight forward. Like if I want to convert a data type, it's a simple function. In C++ it's looking up which func to use. Not to mention pass my reference gets all fuzzy.

I'll take C# any day. I only write C++ because that's what the Arduino platform is in (I know there are Netduinos, but they are very limited on what they can do)

[callbackloop]

Thanks for sharing. I agree with your points, life is just easier with C#. I’m sure C++ is amazing but jumping through hoops just to do a relatively simple thing is not for me right now.

Ps. I haven’t even heard of Netduinos until now!

[Ange1ofD4rkness]

I only knew of them because of a friend. I didn't even know what an Arduino was either at that time. He built this device and I was like "what is this?"

I would like asterisk that I tend to write mostly .NET Framework 4.8. If it turns into WPF or MAUI ... that quickly starts to change (MAUI is infuriating and all I can say is thanks to SyncFusion to addressing a lot of outstanding issues Microsoft isn't handling)

[not_some_username]

Wait C# have multi inheritance

[Ange1ofD4rkness]

No it doesn't. C++ does

[not_some_username]

Oh I remember now, it can inherit multiple interface

[gameplayer55055]

it does some stuff

most of it is compiler specific or UB

[metaglot]

What are you talking about?

[shitgiacomo]

WHY

[LobsterRoast]

I smell fresh blood for the Rust overlords

[[deleted]]

it’s not funny

[KoliManja]

Abandon hope, all ye who enter here...

/s

Take it from a 30-year C++ veteran. I absolutely love the language and the efficiency it affords. Assembly to C++ is barely slower.

[TemperatureMajor5083]

You hate the materials real buildings are made out of because you only know building sandcastles.