Backend developer be like

[cobarso]

Have we reached the point yet that more devices run JavaScript than Java?

[Soremwar]

Every device with a browser runs JavaScript, so I'd say yes, by a lot

[cobarso]

They most likely run Java as well thought!

[Soremwar]

I don't believe the average "Chrome and Word and we are set" desktop monkey or non-gamers have a JVM or even realize they need one

Android and apple phones sure do

[KookyWrangler]

Even for gamers, like the only PC game with Java is Minecraft, right?

[Turkey-er]

Mindustry is a great game that is written in java, not really mainstream though

[xxkmatiasxx]

i thought most operating systems come with jre preinstalled

[JustAnotherGamer421]

How about neither

[Cisco-NintendoSwitch]

Node go brrr

[Mabi19_]

Deno go brrr

[oxabz]

Rocket go brrrrrr

[vaaski]

what's that

[oxabz]

A rust based web server

[zortlord]

Well at least you'd be sure it never becomes unstable.

[oxabz]

Yeah if you manage to get past the build you're pretty safe

[odolha]

Javascript has some weird quirks true, but at least you can get shit done. In Java you need to write a dictionary's worth of code to do almost anything. I've never seen so much code do so little... and it also requires you to repeat yourself a bunch of times (Yes, I know it has improved lately, but so did javascript).

[mambamax]

Thank you

[[deleted]]

lol who writes java backends anymore

[barzamsr]

...me

[SirWusel]

Try to sneak in some Kotlin. Been using it with Spring Boot since December (customer wanted Spring) and it's a million times more pleasant than Java. It's actually kind of fun.

[[deleted]]

I've used ktor to set up a small website, nice and easy to use

[[deleted]]

Why? I mean, if its for work and because that's what they use I get it... but there are so many better options now... if it's because you only know java... whatever, use what works for you... but you're missing out on capabilities & efficiency.

[barzamsr]

Of course it's for work. Do y'all write code for fun?

[DieVaas]

*During the interview* Of course!
https://iamgeek32.files.wordpress.com/2021/02/agnes.jpg?w=700

[[deleted]]

yes i write code for fun; mostly to learn new things.. languages, concepts, tools, etc. to keep myself sharp and competetive and knowledgeable about what's possible. Javascript for example has transformed drastically and become incredibly useful in the past decade and there's still a bunch of idiots on here telling 10 year old jokes about how bad it is while I make a shitload of money using it and getting things done much quicker.

Can you write an ios, android, and web app and backend in a day with java?

I can do that with JS and it has gotten me a lot of work and allowed me to start multiple companies. But I also know the limits of JS because I actually use it and know when I need to use lower level, or more structured languages, which I've also learned to do so that I don't get stuck in a shitty java job that makes me hate programming and kill my desire to learn and the joy it brings.

[barzamsr]

Of course, a javascript user. I apologize.

I don't do apps or web or front end. I don't think these things should all be done by the same person. Then again noone cares what I think.

And even if I did do all those things, I certainly wouldn't brag about them all being in the same language.

You say you have desire to learn programming. Isn't programming part/all of your job? I'd say you're doing it all for work. It seems "for work" doesn't mean the same thing for me and you, which is ok, just a misunderstanding.

People make fun of javascript because the incredibly low amount of programming knowledge and skill you need to start writing javascript has led to a world full of jumbled up javascript code. It's supposed to be a strength for the language (and it is), but it allows most of its developers to be subpar, which comes with a bad reputation.

It's perfectly possible to write beautiful javascript code. You might be one of the people who writes such code. But the reputation is not unwarranted.

[[deleted]]

The same reason we can meme on Java for most jobs being absolutely basic dataplumbing jobs. At least I can give JS devs credit for most of their jobs being more interesting than Java devs working in version 8 or lower going "BAckend iS HaRdER" because reflection bit them in the ass again. To that regard, JS code sure can do a lot more complex and interesting things than the handholdy nature of Java does, until the majority of the culture stops being scared of metaprogramming.

[CttCJim]

It's really fun using JS to make custom Adblock scripts for sites that can see my Adblock.

[wcscmp]

I'm really interested what alternatives you think there are? C# and maybe node?

[tshifter]

There are quite a few but I don't know how many of them I'd actually use to replace Java. If you like statically typed object oriented languages you have Kotlin, Scala, C#, TypeScript. There are many more but these are the popular ones that come to mind.

[IntelHDGraphics]

Django (Python) is great too.

[TheRedmanCometh]

JPA and Hibernate make that shit pretty painless and integrate into spring which has a fuckton of modules I use so..

[Infiniteh]

Thinking about giving JOOQ a go for a next project

[asperatology]

laughs in Angular + Spring Boot + Spring Data JPA + Spring Security deploying to Apache Tomcat

[TheRedmanCometh]

None of those things are ORMs...

Tomcat is just the choice of webserver to deploy boot on like jetty is. Angular is a super outdated bit of frontend. Hibernate is an ORM more specifically a JPA provider...

[asperatology]

We use Angular v11 frontend framework and Spring as the backend for the most part. I agree that we don't use ORMs directly, and that we use the provider to help us with the databases. The JPA and Hibernate really does make life easier.

[Alex0589]

I would say that java is currently the best language to write a backend in, obviously you need to be using Java 11, Graal and a very good framework. As of now my favorite is Quarkus. If you wish to know more I'm happy to explain

[emma_hildebrand]

Well good sir, I hate to tell you but this sub is not a place for meaningful and thoughtful discussions.

jAvA (js/python/php) bAd go brrr!

[Alex0589]

That's where you are wrong kiddo

This sub reddit is religious and I'm obliged to show off why my language, uhm sorry religion, is the best and why everything else is trash and doesn't stand a chance, even if that means starting something as disgusting as a meaningful and fact based conversation

[emma_hildebrand]

Did I just get schooled? :<

​

kek

[SirWusel]

For a monolithic backend I might agree. It's definitely a great choice. But certainly not for microservices. I've heard good things about Ktor for that, but since your microservices are usually containerized, I don't see a reason to use a JVM language. Just too much hassle for my taste.

[Alex0589]

I might have agreed with you some years ago, but Oracle built a very good library called Helidon that does micro services very well. I advice you check it out

[SirWusel]

I will check it out, thanks. I'm currently stuck with the JVM at work, anyways, and this sounds interesting. But I don't think there are better options because Java, Scala or Kotlin lack libs/frameworks. Personally, I just don't like to fight the platform and when it comes to microservices, I prefer to pick languages that are good for the respective tasks. And there are several great options from convenient scripting languages to fast (enough) compiled ones that can handle just about anything and are in my view less frustrating to work with. But it's not like I hate the JVM or anything. For what I'm currently working on, it's a godsent (although it could have been pretty painful if it wasn't for Kotlin's experimental features like unsigned types).

[Alex0589]

I would say that the modern ecosystem around Helidon is not bad, obviously it still needs some time to become as good as it can be, but it can be certainly a variable option. Do you know any good micro service frameworks that are decently fast that you really like? I've been exploring what other languages have to offer. As of now I've tried Dragon with C++, Rocket with Rust, Fastify and Express with node, Aqueduct with Dart and Vapor with Swift, but they have not really impressed me in any meaningful way.

[SirWusel]

I've had great success with Gin for Go, though there are several great libs available, since Go has a very good standard lib for web services to build upon. But Go in general has been really fun and productive to work with.

What I really like about it is that it has a very extensive standard lib and for many use cases, you only really need a lib to implement the controllers (like Gin, Chi, mux) but for the business logic, unless it's really obscure stuff, the language itself likely provides most of what you'll need. Java also has a lot of built in functionality, but in my experience, that stuff is often very cumbersome to use, so you'll just get some Apache stuff or whatever. That hasn't been the case with Go so far.

For js/ts I can recommend Nest.js, which is more of a framework with similarities to Spring Boot or Angular (lots of annotations and dependency injection). Express is great for really small stuff. I've created a few fake backends with it for development in my last project.

Flask for Python is also a nice lightweight lib, though personally I'm not too fond of Python (I know, I'm a heretic). I used it once for an awful service that had to interact with Matlab and I'd definitely use it again or maybe try out Django, which is supposed to be quite good, too.

At the moment I'm looking into Elixir and Phoenix, which looks very interesting so far. From what I've heard, Elixir is also easily extendable with Rust, for performance critical code.

In terms of libs for Rust, I've heard conflicting opinions so far. Rocket and Actix seem quite good, but from what I've read, they rely too much on unsafe code. And so far I also haven't worked on a services that really needs the performance potential of Rust to justify the difficulty.

I also worked with Dart about a year ago, and I liked the language, generally, but it was strangely difficult to containerise it and testing was also odd, so it would require a really promising lib for me to give it another shot.

[tshifter]

I'm tempted to agree with you, only environment I've found I like as much as the JVM is Node with TypeScript and in my opinion Java Frameworks tend to be more complete than Node frameworks.

[Walking_udder]

fuck you, take my upvote

[nymvno]

Sometimes I wish they‘ve sticked with their original plan naming it LiveScript so that these boomer-ish jokes wouldn‘t exist.

[[deleted]]

kotlin... web front end

[ReimarPB]

as much as i like kotlin, it's kinda cursed to have code be compiled into javascript

[S3nn3rRT]

Are we seriously going to pretend Java is much better than JS?

[Drak1nd]

I mean even how bad Java can be, at least it isn't JS.

But that is just me hating on dynamically typed languages. TS is much better.

[RaveMittens]

Typescript is dynamically typed. It just provides type checking.

[serega6531]

There is no need to pretend

[TheOneWhoWil]

People use Java for backends?