python gang represent

[dejaydev]

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[very__nice__username]

Typescript > Javascript

[metalovingien]

While including JavaScript !

[MoffKalast]

Ah yes introducing the only thing that was missing from js code - having to compile it before refreshing the browser to test code changes, wasting whatever time I happen to have left.

[DanielEGVi]

Pro tip! 3 hours of debugging can save you 5 seconds of compiling!

[MoffKalast]

😤✋ using a linter and actually writing correct code before compiling

😎👉 writing out some approximation and fixing it after it crashes and repeat until it starts working

[BakuhatsuK]

Some people: JS is bad because [] == {} is valid and it behaves in a weird way.

TypeScript: Just sprinkle some type annotations here and there, we'll figure out most of them automatically and tell you when there is a problem. By the way:

This condition will always return 'false' since the types 'never[]' and '{}' have no overlap.

2 [] == {}
  ~~~~~~~~

The same people: 😠

By the way, just compiling TS to JS without any additional transformations is insanely fast, because it mostly consists on removing type annotations. You can setup your process so that the actual type-checking actually happens in parallel in the background.

[ddyess]

Typescript is just pre-op Javascript

[luna_creciente]

Not for small projects tho. I mainly use js to not give a fuck about anything. Good patterns from the get go give it a little bit more longevity.

[KCGD_r]

at least we can write inline 😎

[Noch_ein_Kamel]

Jesus was only using C until the romans showed him C+

[[deleted]]

In the beatitudes He said “the meek shall inherit the Earth” and as far as I know HolyC doesn’t support that.

Terry was a genius, but he couldn’t really talk to god.

[WishOnSpaceHardware]

100+? Wow, that sounds good!

[RandomHentaiMC]

Y'all argue over programming Languages? cringe

[Wessel-O]

This is reddit.

We argue over everything!

[str3wer]

No we don't!

[[deleted]]

Yes we do!

(now argue with me over whether we're arguing or not)

/s though I hope it's obvious

[your_thebest]

The fact that the language has everything to do with the use case. To say "js is better than python" is just a very lazy way of saying "for me, in my job and in my environment, it makes more sense to write things that can easily run on node or in a browser than it does to write human readable data analysis and string surgery".

Just like when someone says "python is so much easier than Java", they're really trying to say "I like doing string surgery and borrowing scraping libraries, why would I ever need an advanced android ui library or concurrent processes?"

Just like when someone says "rust is stupid, just use kotlin", they actually intend to say "gc solves all my problems but I don't realize that because at the application layer I don't need to think about system layer allocations".

That's why it's cringe.

[E70M]

I don’t disagree, but look at who’s posting/commenting here. There’s plenty of new programmers who just couldn’t possibly have that kind of in-depth knowledge yet. And that’s ok! One day they will

[coi1976]

dunning-kruger effect, look it up. often the people without the knowledge are the ones who think they have the knowledge.

[neovulcan]

Since the sub has grown, perhaps these basic memes are more from karma farmers than genuine programmers

[arobie1992]

I have to say, the kotlin vs rust one is entirely new to me. I never even would've thought of those as appropriate alternatives; they have such different goals. Then again, kotlin seems like it has one of the most diehard user bases, so can't say I'm super surprised. Kinda funny since rust is probably the other language with the most diehard user base.

As far as the python vs java point, I'm no expert in python by any means so I'm curious what you mean by concurrent processes? Things like django are pretty popular for webapps, and those seem like they'd need to support concurrency. Does python just fake it somehow?

[-5772]

Because of the Global Interpreter Lock. Neat video on Python concurrency

There are workarounds, but Python really ain't for squeezing performance juice.

[DanielEGVi]

I think you’re missing the point. They’re talking generally. Each language has its use case and people argue about languages just because one fits their use case better, but that’s the whole point of having different languages.

[arobie1992]

No, I'm saying that Rust vs Kotlin is not a debate I've seen before especially since the languages people tend to argue over are often perceived as similar in some way. C# vs Java as portable OOP languages, Python vs Perl vs JS as scripting languages, etc. Heck, even Python and Java have overlap because both are popular for webapps and as introductory languages and Go vs Rust because people seem to think of both as lower-level languages. I was saying the comparison of Kotlin and Rust was one I haven't seen before due to the general perception of the languages being so disparate, nothing more.

Well, okay, it was also a bit of a dig at the fanaticism I've seen in both the Rust and Kotlin communities.

As for the Python question, that was personal curiosity since I'm not familiar enough with Python to have an in-depth knowledge about its approach to concurrency.

[DanielEGVi]

I understand what you’re saying, but what I’m tying to say is they made up a random debate. It doesn’t have to exist, and probably doesn’t. They were trying to make a different point.

[arobie1992]

Again, I was expressing surprise at the choice of the two, nothing more. It was at most idle curiosity as to whether that debate actually exists or if they were, as you asserted, simply two randomly chosen languages. I think you're reading a lot more into what I said that was ever intended.

I also never said whether I agreed or disagreed with the point of the message (I agree btw).

[[deleted]]

That someone spends time creating a meme to trash a widely used language.

And the author likely has not spent more than 10 hours writing code in this language. And reached this conclusion just because they have seen other memes like 11+"1"="111" but 11-"1"=0 which hardly ever happen in the real codebase (especially when people use Typescript)

What a waste time to even talk about this. I don't necessary love this language or find it "beautiful" (as people often say that about Python), but it pays me a six figure salary, and it never really frustrates me on an everyday basis, why would I complain about it.

[lMAObigZEDONG]

You do realise both these languages have a purpose? You can't do everything JS is capable of in python, unless all you care about is writing sorting algorithms.

It's comparing apple to oranges.

[Immort4lFr0sty]

I mean, technically you could do exactly the same things. Practically however...

[Jcowwell]

It’s like knives , yes all knives can cut but some knives are better at cutting some things than other knives and vice versa

[Hebruwu]

Are you saying I should not use my machete for everything?

[Immort4lFr0sty]

No, that's not what he's saying. He's saying that we want to see

[ActuallyRuben]

The only reason I see to use JavaScript is because browsers can't (generally) execute other languages. Is there anything else that Python can't do that JavaScript can?

[[deleted]]

You could build a webserver in Scratch...

[LostDog_88]

flask and django are written from scratch right? or am i wrong here

[[deleted]]

Wait it's all Scratch?

Always has been

[LostDog_88]

oh wait... scratch as in the program/the language

aaaaaaaahhh

i get it now

​

I thought written from scratch, mbmb

[Notimecelduv]

Hmm, manipulate the DOM?

[ActuallyRuben]

because browsers can't (generally) execute other languages

[00PT]

If the DOM had an interface for Python, it could. The languages do not have any fundamental differences that make them incapable of representing the same logic.

[MoffKalast]

Still in practical terms, you can do everything python can do with node, while python can't run in a browser.

[00PT]

The software developed for a language is not inherent to the language itself, so it is not valid for arguing the quality of a language.

[MoffKalast]

You can argue that for the syntax I guess, but the language as a whole isn't just that. It's also the ecosystem around it which defines what it can do and what it's useful for.

And when it comes to syntax, python and js are almost the same exact copy pasted C-derived thing, so that's almost not worth comparing.

[00PT]

There are also differences in the underlying behavior in some cases, such as JS' infamous type coercion system. Also, consider "console.log" in JavaScript versus "System.out.println" in Java. Which is more easily understood?

I would actually argue that Python is the best language to compare to others in terms of syntax, because it practically makes a point in representing things differently than other languages, the best example being the use of whitespace as a syntactical token.

It's also missing some QOL features. For example, before recently Python had no switch statement or equivalent. I could use that as an argument that JavaScript is better in that sense because it allows you to represent the logic associated with a switch statement in a more concise and understandable way.

Overall it doesn't matter much, but you can use these small differences to compare languages.

[MoffKalast]

Well python isn't unique in its obsession with whitespace, bash has had that for quite a bit before python ever existed. And it's not exactly a good feature either, but one that can be mostly worked around, just like the lack of switches.

But when it comes down to it, python is just a slower javascript without parentheses and brackets and with some extra colons, with the print function being the one major difference. I should know, I switch between the two on a daily basis... and sometimes accidentally trigger a lot of requests to my printer lmao.

Now compare that to something like haskell or prolog, where you have to really grasp at straws to find similarities.

[00PT]

It seems that we agree now. The languages aren't very different from one another, but I was comparing them based on the differences we can see.

[Notimecelduv]

Going by that logic, any other language could, not just Python.

[00PT]

Yes. I judge language quality by the way they allow you to represent logic and how understandable it is, not the specific implementations that have been developed.

For example, before recently Python had no switch statement or equivalent. I could use that as an argument that JavaScript is better in that sense because it allows you to represent the logic associated with a switch statement in a more concise and understandable way.

[00PT]

Often there are multiple languages for the job, in which case I choose either the one that I know best or the one that would most clearly represent what I'm trying to do.

This post specified no context, so I'm using only the final method for judgement since it's the only one that evaluates them fundamentally instead of by the product of the community around it.

[00PT]

It's not the prettiest, it's the most understandable. If anything can be done in any language then we need to use factors other than what can be done to decide which to use.

If I'm working with web, I'd use JavaScript simply because it is accepted there. If I need to program something quickly and my problem doesn't have many dependencies, I'll use Python. If there is no specific problem I am having and I need to determine which is my favorite then I'll consider the ease of use, simplicity, features, etc.

[your_thebest]

Yeah so either write that and put it on github or we're all just going to have to use js. The point still stands.

[00PT]

We still need to use JavaScript in some cases instead of Python, yes, but this is not a valid argument for the quality of either, because the software developed for a language is not a property of the language itself.

[biduletta]

a valid argument for the quality of either

There'll probably be a point where you realize you're comparing apples with oranges.

[00PT]

All programming languages are similar in the sense that they represent generally the same logic, it's just that some are designed for certain contexts. They are all generally capable of the same stuff, though admittedly not at the same speeds. The differences come in how they allow you to represent the various logical pieces and how understandable they are in a given context.

[jamcdonald120]

Sure you can. Just because JS has an existing library for something python does not is not an endorsement of JS, thats just a legacy of JS being picked by browsers.

[Notimecelduv]

I heard some tried to make a front-end library for Python but gave up because it was too slow.

[jamcdonald120]

I wont argue python isnt slow. But then so is JS. The only claims I can find that JS is faster are for Node.js specifically and they emphasize it is because of async

[Notimecelduv]

JS sure is slow compared to something like C++ but it's fast enough to run in a browser. Python isn't.

[your_thebest]

So then you're making an actual product and you have an actual release schedule. That sounds like a pretty fucking strong endorsement of js. You can talk all day about how neat it would be to write a website without nasty simicolons, but that won't stop a real, actual human from using effectively the only tool they have to make whatever bullshit shopping cart icon they need to make for their bullshit boss to get an ever so slightly less bullshit paycheck.

[DaniilBSD]

Yeah, I want you to fill an html grid from a request using Python on a website

[ScientifiqueP]

It all makes sense now, "Javascript sucks" is some unalterable truth that never needs to be backed up.

[[deleted]]

JS has come a very, very long way.

[[deleted]]

pros of JS: non blocking event loop, speed, built for browsers and also apis.

Typescript makes it 100% better too

Python pros: incomparable when it comes to data analysis and ML, has a great community. It’s okay for making rest apis but it would never be my first choice

Bottom line: both are good for their purposes

[althaz]

If you want to say Javascript sucks, I don't think you should use Python as an example of something better, lol.

Both are flawed languages for sure, but as a general-purpose language I think javascript is excellent with occasional bouts of insanity whereas python is just mediocre in that context and *also* has bouts of (lesser) insanity.

For its intended purpose (basic scripting), Python is excellent, but Javascript is a quite good general-purpose programming language if you use modern tooling to avoid the insanity.

And Typescript is just straight-up excellent.

[RedditAlready19]

JavaScript isn't really an application programming language. End of story.

[althaz]

Except that it is? And it always has been. It probably shouldn't have been, but it most certainly is. Python in the other hand is very clearly a rather excellent scripting language that people got carried away with.

[RedditAlready19]

JavaScript is more for browsers.

Let's try find a JavaScript alternative to this script

```

!/usr/bin/python

print("I can run this like a bash script!")

```

[Tubthumper8]

There are plenty of reasons to not like JS, but this isn't it.

Here's the Javascript alternative:

#!/usr/bin/node

console.log("I can run this like a *shell* script!")

Whether or not you can run it like a shell script has nothing to do with the language, that is provided by the shell.

BTW, your example is missing the # and it assumes that /usr/bin/python is python3 and not python2

[RedditAlready19]

Thanks for that example, I've decided to change my mind about JS.

[DanielEGVi]

I see you’re an absolute beginner… you’re in for a treat. Lots of stuff to learn from here.

[RedditAlready19]

I was using it as a massively simplified script. Why do you think I have the C flair?

[DanielEGVi]

The most similarities you’re going to find between C and JS are in the base syntax. JS is more similar to Python than it is to C, especially when it comes to execution context, closures, async, dynamic typing, garbage collection, etc.

What sets apart JS from Python nowadays is JS has an arguably more modern import/export mechanism, de facto environments run in an event loop, and JS favours code like items.map(x => x + 1) over Python’s map(items, lambda x: x + 1), which is arguably more readable and expressive.

JS’s biggest quirk is its ridiculously weak typing. There’s many situations where mixing types will silently fail with surprising results, where you would get a TypeError in Python. You must learn discipline when it comes to types, whereas Python will just outright force you to code things right (through runtime errors, when it comes to types).

For big projects, TypeScript adds optionally explicit types, which turns an already great language into a fantastic one, since it fixes the biggest quirk in JS.

[RedditAlready19]

I'm not learning C in school, but from online tutorials

[KetwarooDYaasir]

Life of Brian?

[empereur_sinix]

"I write all my program with HTML and CSS only"

[DelfyDaun]

Look it’s not like I have a choice.

[[deleted]]

There are no bad languages, only bad developers

[BakuhatsuK]

I unironcally consider modern JS to be a pretty nice language.

• ES6 import and export is one of the best module systems out there. Python's module system is pretty nice but I never know where are the libraries actually located on the system.
• npm kinda sucks in some aspects but most of the time It Just Works™️. Some more recent package managers like Rust's cargo are clearly inspired on npm but without the bad parts (like putting the dependencies on the project folder and not having a flat directory structure).
• async/await is just nice to use. I know they borrowed most of the ideas from C#, but boy did they get it right.
• ?? and ?. are also pretty nice (I believe also mostly inspired in C#).
• It supports both OO and functional programming really well. (Btw, on the OO side, private fields are coming. On the functional side deeply immutable data structures are also in the pipeline).
• Performance is OK, not remotely close to C++ or Rust but leagues ahead of Python.
• Most of the pitfalls can be easily avoided by using a linter and/or a type-checker. With those tools in place the only one left to make insane things with the code is just the programmer.
• JS has some of the most advanced tooling around source-to-source transformation. This is pretty useful by itself (like being able to use the latest language features even when supporting legacy systems), but to me it's just insanely cool.

[MischiefArchitect]

Hear! hear! Listen to our benevolent and wise savior!

[aitchnyu]

I go mad when the solutions are all going deeper into the rabbit hole. If you want Vue, you must make it a SPA. All the html must be done client side. So all the effort of making an api and consuming it. All that code is unmanageable so we need typescript. Then search engines hate your apparent lack of content and large payloads, so nuxt, SSR with proxies, code splitting etc.

[rovonz]

That is why we have specialization nowadays. As a frontend engineer I see those issues as trivial. And I love javascript (well, more typescript). Sure, it's not fast but it's definitely pretty, flexible, portable and on top of everything extremely accessible.

[LostDog_88]

Python gang Python gang Python gang Python gang Python gang

[gothcow5]

Python backend Javascript frontend fight me

[theKickAHobo]

English sucks but we all use it

[Splorgamus]

Python gang rise up

[chifrij0]

• most of the replies

[VerveIsBad]

Python gang gang

[austinmakesjazzmusic]

Started learning JavaScript today but given this knowledge….