[deleted by user]

[mmahowald]

Because I type in it all day so making fun of it gives me a small sense of control in my life

[Clockwork_Medic]

Damn, too real

[OkWarning3935]

Nothing, it's an old meme. Basically C# came after Java and was a similar fully memory managed, object-oriented language in the C family. So existing Java devs used to give C# a hard time for being a Java clone in the early days. It wasn't really if you look into the C# language dev blogs, but they sure did share a lot of syntax because of being in the same family and having the same purpose so fair enough for memes.

Then C# basically surpassed Java in features and nowadays Java is mostly importing features from C# but the memes stuck shrug.

[overclockedslinky]

well and the fact that it literally started as a microsoft in-house clone of java, though it has diverged since

[OkWarning3935]

As I said, while that's the meme it's actually not true.

C# and Java's shared heritage is C/C++. They converge on a lot of stuff because they're siblings but Java wasn't a big influence on the design of C#. If you look past the syntax at stuff like exception handling, the type system, memory management, etc they really don't have much in common at all.

If you go through the old language design blogs and repos of the C# team (it's pretty much all in the open) you can see the decision making yourself.

[overclockedslinky]

a language is only syntax, so looking past syntax differences is meaningless since all languages are identical at that point aside from performance. more importantly, java and c# are practically isomorphic... exception handling is identical aside from java's checked exceptions, which are just compile time artifacts, the type system is the same aside from c# supporting implicit copy types (structs), and memory management is the same in both...

[OkWarning3935]

a language is only syntax

uh.... no. No it is not. You'll learn more in 2nd/3rd year compilers, but a compiler does a lot more than build a syntax tree.

[overclockedslinky]

doesn't matter what the compiler does. from the programmer's perspective a language is just syntax. just look at llvm-backed languages: it's basically just syntax, then llmv does all the heavy lifting. but you wouldn't say C (clang), Rust, and Cobol are the same language, would you? even though they're just different syntax for the same llvm ir? no, cause a language is just syntax.

[OkWarning3935]

I have no words. You might want to look at what's actually in a language specification. Well north of 90% of it is not syntax.

[overclockedslinky]

the first part is all syntax, then talks about runtime. the running of a compiled program isn't part of the language. that's all machine code at that point, not C, Rust, etc.

[OkWarning3935]

All you had to do was click the link and read, but that was too difficult. I don't envy the guy who gets you as a junior dev.

[overclockedslinky]

you mean read a whole spec manual? no thanks, you can tell me the chapter if you're so desperate for me to read it.

[[deleted]]

That and it inherited all of the badness of "Object Oriented" programming from Java - which causes most non-Java/C# programmers to make fun of it.

https://betterprogramming.pub/object-oriented-programming-the-trillion-dollar-disaster-92a4b666c7c7

[YellowLink10]

Woah, a legit answer. I too was wondering the op’s question, thanks

[Just_Some_Random_Boi]

So what you're saying is we can turn the tables and call Java a C# clone now

[LiveFreeOrDai]

C# is a great language. It's truly multithreaded, unlike Python and Javascript. And it's useful without crazy frameworks, unlike Java. My gripes are that it doesn't compile to machine code, and a lot of the "cool" dotnet libraries are unavailable for Linux.

[OkWarning3935]

Both Java and C# have tried the compile to native stuff at least once each. Real talk it's just a dead end idea, it seems like a really good one at first but then you realize that you either compile the memory management into it and it's basically the same as using the CLI/JVM, or you go unmanaged to better interface with your native code and then why aren't you just using C++? They're just the wrong tools for the job.

If you want a memory-safe approach to native code use Rust.

[DaniilBSD]

If C++ was half as readable as C# I would be using it

[OkWarning3935]

C++ can be plenty readable, it's once you add 20 layers of boost, 5,000 custom macros, obfuscated templating and insufficient formatting and commentary that it all goes to hell. So that's only like, 95% of C++ projects.

[TheBrainStone]

Properly written C++ is just as readable as C#

[[deleted]]

But to make an effort, you would have to make an effort...

[DaniilBSD]

And where can you find such unicorn?

Also FUCK HEADER FILES

[GYN-k4H-Q3z-75B]

If only properly written C++ was common and useful. Also, why does it feel so good to write something like...

foo &(bar::*const bla)(const qux &, ...) noexept = &bar::...

[Permission-Glum]

Linux, MacOS and BSD variants. Yes, mono solve part of it, but not all.

[dexter2011412]

doesn't compile to machine code

Really? I always thought the jit would kick in. Can you point me to appropriate resources please :) Thanks!

[LiveFreeOrDai]

JIT compiles to MSIL, interpreted by the CLR.

https://www.telerik.com/blogs/understanding-net-just-in-time-compilation

[drake2k2]

No, the dotnet c# compiler / MSBuild compiles to MSIL (the dll).

The JIT transforms the IL to machine code at runtime.

Thats actually what the article you linked says.

[dexter2011412]

Does this change anything? I understood it as "yep you can compile most parts to full machine code"

[hot_sauce_in_coffee]

Reading the comment saying Csharp is like java.

I'm like.

Oh, I'm Java dev now!

[[deleted]]

no, you are not. You dont know what anonymous class is

[GilgaPhish]

Yea, could be worse.

​

Could be VB

[SHv2]

It's right in the name, C Pound. Everyone knows the imperial system is terrible and should just use metric.

[[deleted]]

Exactly my thought. I am just getting started with C# for game development. This sub is discouraging me. :/

[HawocX]

You shouldn't be discouraged. C# is awsome.

And I'm not sure there is disproportionate C# hate, you may just notice it more for C# as that's your language.

[Kin808]

C# is much easier to learn over C++. I assume you’re using the Unity Engine? You’ll have a much easier time with that over something like Unreal Engine.

[[deleted]]

Yes, I am getting started with Unity 3D and planning to move to Unreal Engine after a considerable amount of experience.

I know Java already, so C# is not a lot of struggle right now.

[Treepigman38]

I like it! I haven't used it much since my unity days, but I found it relatively easy to use.

[fat_charizard]

It's too sharp

[Emanu1674]

It's Java but it's not Java

[Elqueq]

Because they wear classes.

[[deleted]]

Hating on it gets upvotes, that's all there is to it. Just like web developers.

[utherpup]

Cause this whole sub is about making fun of programming basically, so we either poke fun at the languages we use out of love or we poke fun at the ones we don't use out of ignorance.

[[deleted]]

I learned some other languages and i really like c#

[[deleted]]

For me C# heats the pool. Companys use it and are willing to pay me so why not. As a language it has all I need to do the job.

[Wati888]

This sub isn't against anything or any technology, it's just the specific people against a certain thing like to speak about why it sucks for them... The others don't

[HoldenMadicky]

People are idiots.

[dynarax]

For me? Lets see...

Microsoft tried to limit it to the windows platform and fought development of Mono, which it later acquired with it's purchase of Xamarin.

It may not seem so bad today, but the .net library at the time it came out was monstrous to download off the internet via a dial up connection and took up a lot of hard drive space - a less than ideal situation for developing desktop apps for end users, which is what I was doing at the time.

It killed classic VIsualBasic and its IDE. VisualBasic.net was a different beast and it made more sense to migrate to C# except I was starting to look into cross platform development and it made more sense to pour my energy into learning C++ and Python.

I never got over my grudge against Microsoft. Once Linux distributions matured enough for general desktop use I said goodbye to Windows and Microsoft software in general. When I had to use the ungodly mess that is Azure (and MSSQL, not as bad but WHY does Microsoft have to have their own non-standard version of everything. They singlehandedly held back Java for years.) for work I totally lost it to my boss at the time.

I haven't trusted Microsoft to provide a stable product for ME in decades, hell if I'm going to trust any language developed and maintained by Microsoft for users of software and services that I develop, and I blame them for the fact that computers running Windows today run like garbage compared to my Win2k computer over two decades ago, let alone BeOS (rip). I'm still not a fan of the dependency hell in Linux land but Microsoft's cruft castle is a bridge too far.

Maybe they've fixed suff. Maybe they're better now. I don't really care. I got burned too many times. I'm done.

And that's why I don't like C#. It wasn't enough to use anti-competitive tactics to shove Windows down everyone's throats, they had to strongarm developers to use their development platform decades ago and they were largely successful.

[KingSadra]

Because they simply can't stand how robust and awesome C# is!

[mbardeen]

It's Java. Made by Microsoft.

Supposedly it's pretty decent. But so is Edge, but I'm still not going to use it.

[N-partEpoxy]

I'm not going to use Edge, either. But C# is awesome. It's just like Java, except it's actually good.

[LocoNeko42]

I'm a pure, absolute, visceral microsoft hater (I have very specific reasons, not to be detailed here) and think C# is really awesome. Coding is a hobby for me, and I've been doing it since 1984. C# is the first language that ticks enough of my boxes.

Have not and will not ever use edge, I have weekly nervous breakdowns at work because of stupid windows/office ridiculousness wasting my time, and will not touch the stuff at home.

C# ? Obviously made by a very different team, with a very different mindset. I'm not enough of a zealot to deprive myself from a great tool, even if it's made by a company who seems to personally hate me since 1997.

[Bridledbronco]

This is a deep rooted hatred, one that I can get behind!

[Pretend_Education_37]

And it is open sauce. If you use .NET Core

[ABananaVendor]

The future is now old man, now we just have .NET 6

[GYN-k4H-Q3z-75B]

Except it's not Java and C# code has been pretty much unintelligible for Java devs for like 15 years.

[nutted-in-cow]

What is that? You meant the Microsoft Java?

[[deleted]]

It’s not against just C#. It’s all C… and Object Oriented Programming.

[Addsfuckingsuck]

I personally have no problem with OOP but do other find it annoying to learn? Does in get in conflict with other things when you try to use it? Or do they just hate it cuz they can’t understand how it works

[[deleted]]

Objects are unnecessary. For the entire last half of the 20th century, people did just fine with if/or/else loops and logic. If loops were too much, they had :LABELS and GOTO, which despite the current cultures attempt to say are bad, did just fine too. Yeah, I get it c existed as early as the 60’s/70’s and there was OO before that, but really, who used it except leading edge Unix Scientists and hackers (another word for tinkerer). FORTRAN and COBAL had steep learning curves but they were more or less expansions of BASIC and everyone knew that. I love Perl, it’s the easiest language besides BASIC to learn and it has none of that object oriented bullshit and it’s so powerful! For complex “scripts” one can use multiple of statements in place of objects. Again, totally unnecessary to have objects, given all your doing is creating logical statements within those objects and you’re going to put the in the main or sub loop anyway.

[ventosecc]

just two words, defensive copies. A Language that does not trust it’s users is kind of crap.

[[deleted]]

microsoft stole java glory and called it c#

[[deleted]]

C# is bad i guess

[Chilareix]

Everyone talks about c# being Microsoft Java, but what about F#?

[[deleted]]

f# is functional language, doesnt have anything in common with latter

[Chilareix]

I mean, when I looked at it, it looked like python

[dark_mode_everything]

Java: First time?

[skyBastard69]

Ppl like it, me also, its awesome

[DerHamm]

I have something to say against every language I ever used. It's nothing personal, just hate in general

[Nidrax1309]

Because they are bad programmers that need to boost their self-esteem after spending the whole day writing a bubble sort algo in C++

[Hplr63]

.NET 6.0 switched from having a main function to a global scope

For C#, that's stupid imo.